He meant First Avenger towards me and he's seen me say that in other threads.
Hmm?
Actually Cap has several pyshical feats in strength and striking. He picks people up and tosses them high in the air in TFA and he punches/kicks them and sends them flying.
Okay, but how is Batman comparable here? He may have some high end strikes in there that are remotely comparable to some of TFA Cap's weaker strikes, but how can you argue he's on the same level of strength when they're completely mismatched feat wise in that regard?
For the record, I do believe Cap is stronger. I just don't think Batman is outclassed to the point of getting stomped in a physical fight. If people like Batroc and Crossbones can briefly fight Steve, then Bruce should he able to last against him for a while.
@buildhare: He picks up a guy and tosses him through solid concrete, he punches a guy and sends him skidding across the floor, the picks up the crate with this grapple gun and tosses the crate so hard it cracks a guys skull...
1. How does Punisher clear the warehouse from distance? Bombs, sniper? Wouldn't that involve greater risk?
2. I don't think shooting KGbeast would be as simple coz if it was then Batman could've done it too. It would also elevate the risk. KG is no rookie, I would've believed you if it was just another fodder.
I just don't think Batman is outclassed to the point of getting stopped in a physical fight.
He kinda is though. His main strength feats in the film are lifting free weights and pulling tyres, which are impressive for unenhanced street levellers, but objectively far inferior to even Cap's earliest strength showings. There's really no point in trying to make out he's close to replicating stuff like the beam lift in TWS or the bike throw when he can't replicate the easier stuff, not to mention he'd have to do it pretty easily to be comparable to Cap. Including those tie in feats doesn't help (the concrete striking is worse, see below).
If people like Batroc and Crossbones can briefly fight Steve,
Batroc initially surprised Cap but if you look at the scorecard for that fight it's not close, Cap barely hits him and dodges or blocks everything and when he does start hitting him it's all down hill from there.
Which instance are you talking about? Rumlow was stomped by Cap and lost to him badly even when he came back with much better gear, superhuman striking, inability to feel pain and the advantage of surprise.
then Bruce should he able to last against him for a while.
We're getting a bit off topic here, but how? Bruce is worse in every way outside of gear variety and stealth, in most areas he's trailing by a lot.
He picks up a guy and tosses him through solid concrete,
When? IIRC the best he's done is damage concrete, never throw anyone through it. Even if he had done that stuff like this is still way superior;
Beam on the left is where Peter hit
he punches a guy and sends him skidding across the floor,
How is that impressive? If he had stayed in the air it would've been okay, but when you're trying to compare him to Cap this feat doesn't warrant mentioning at all.
the picks up the crate with this grapple gun and tosses the crate so hard it cracks a guys skull...
Great, and then compare it to Cap's throw and it's cripplingly obvious that Batman's feat doesn't stack up. It's not like he's weak, but you're trying to compare him to the wrong guy.
@uugieboogie: Fine, they can do it their way from outside but:
1. How does Punisher clear the warehouse from distance? Bombs, sniper? Wouldn't that involve greater risk?
2. I don't think shooting KGbeast would be as simple coz if it was then Batman could've done it too. It would also elevate the risk. KG is no rookie, I would've believed you if it was just another fodder.
1. Why would a sniper cause greater risk? And he could clear the initial from the inside with cover. The second to last time we saw him he had a Gatling gun. If he could hold 30 soldiers on own unprepared then I don't see why he can't kill a dozen with the appropriate gear.
2. Why would shooting the tank causing an explosion be safer than shooting him? Also, IIRC Zack Snyder said he kills by proxy and doesn't directly kill (Or something along those lines).
1. He could snipe but then what the other goons gonna do? Stand there and look at each other dying? Clearly they were waiting for someone, most likely Superman so I expect them to be on full alert.
2. Its reaching but still, KG is a person who can find a spy transmitter in a camera without a clue, also he was Lex's main man ie he's not a moron, he wouldn't be standing idle when someone's gonna shoot him. Intuition. I expect him to shoot the fireblazer as soon someone points at his head, Batman reduced the risk by shooting the tank himself.
1. He could snipe but then what the other goons gonna do? Stand there and look at each other dying? Clearly they were waiting for someone, most likely Superman so I expect them to be on full alert.
2. Its reaching but still, KG is a person who can find a spy transmitter in a camera without a clue, also he was Lex's main man ie he's not a moron, he wouldn't be standing idle when someone's gonna shoot him. Intuition. I expect him to shoot the fireblazer as soon someone points at his head, Batman reduced the risk by shooting the tank himself.
1. So? What are they going to do if they don't know where he's sniping from?
2. You just admitted that you're reaching. And Bruce had the gun aimed at him the entire time, it was already pointed at him. He aimed it down To shoot the tank after he said I believe. And I'm not sure how you consider causing an explosion around a normal elderly woman to be low risk. Characters like Frank, Big Daddy and Mindy have feats to suggest they could just pop him in the head rather quickly.
1. Lol seriously? Why wouldn't they just kill Martha? Its not like they're 5-6 goons P has to take care of. Now before you say "Batman was killing everyone by going inside the warehouse. Why didn't they just killed Martha then?" Coz they were expecting someone and not expecting a Non-Superman guy beat all of them, a blind fire would trigger them.
2. I just disagree??
Or maybe you're right, it was a proxy thing, Zack didn't want Batman to kill someone directly.
Caps only chance is if Lex's Mercs job and only shoot at the center of his shield - like every one in the Marvel movies. Any tactical shooter should be able to tag Cap.
They don't have the tech to take out the guns so everyone dies. Lol at the Cap wank. Dude should be able to clear bebvencause of magic reasons even though he'll most likely be shot on-sight. Lol f
@rbt: It was? Then he might clear. I can't remember if he has the skill to do it, though.
Bullets were literally bouncing off of his suit and he didn't even seem to feel them. And he's decent in h2h as well. Not on same level as some other guys, but enough to clear this.
It's the selling point of each and every one of those characters as action heroes that they would be able to take out a warehouse full of gun-wielding goons with the exact same brutal efficiency.
Heck, if it were Rorschach from the books, there'd be a slight difference in that we'd be meant to question whether brutally destroying the bodies of badly outmatched criminals were a moral act. With movie Rorschach, there's not even that difference between them.
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