Avatar image for kreg_penny
#1 Posted by kreg_penny (110 posts) - - Show Bio

My last thread about The Flash vs Northstar has led me to wonder just how effective Wally West actually can be, given that he can think and move beyond light speed.   
 
So current Wally West for whatever reason has decided to off all of the other founding members of the Justice League: Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Batman, Green Lantern (Hal Jordon), and the Martian Manhunter.  Assume Barry Allen is still dead.

There is no time for study or preparation for the battle, which takes place in a broad open area on Earth.   The Flash decides to kill them, and starts moving.  Can he defeat all of the others combined?

Avatar image for the_average_bear
#2 Posted by The Average Bear (2259 posts) - - Show Bio
Batman has stated that he has a way of neutralizing every member of the JLA should they go rogue. Hal Jordan caught Zoom, who moves faster than Flash, in Sinestro Corps Special #1. So no, I doubt he can defeat them all.
Avatar image for silverman91
#3 Posted by SilverMan91 (483 posts) - - Show Bio

he could vibrate through most of them, but im very doubt full if he could down them all, there is entire threads of Superman vs Flash alone, but he can move at speeds that dawrf most of them
Avatar image for turoksonofstone
#4 Posted by turoksonofstone (14694 posts) - - Show Bio

Casualties happen but Flash is put down.

Avatar image for sexy_merc
#5 Posted by Sexy Merc (42472 posts) - - Show Bio

It really depends.

Avatar image for kreg_penny
#6 Posted by kreg_penny (110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sexy Merc said:
" It really depends. "
On...?
Avatar image for jedixman
#7 Posted by JediXMan (37794 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Average Bear said:
" Batman has stated that he has a way of neutralizing every member of the JLA should they go rogue. Hal Jordan caught Zoom, who moves faster than Flash, in Sinestro Corps Special #1. So no, I doubt he can defeat them all. "
This, for all reasons stated.
 
Also, I believe Wonder Woman caught Zoom once too. And I don't think Flash has any way of beating MM.
Moderator
Avatar image for kreg_penny
#8 Posted by kreg_penny (110 posts) - - Show Bio

I was thinking that if Wally West can move beyond lights peed, and even think beyond light speed, he'd be able to go over every possible variable in his mind before he did anything; and certainly, he knows the weaknesses of his team mates.  
I would assume that if any of them gave him serious trouble, it'd be Superman.  
I'm not sure what Batman could do to neutralize Wally on the spur of the moment; Wally could have Batman's neck snapped long before Batman even knew there was a threat.

Avatar image for zoom
#9 Posted by Zoom (14751 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan said:
"I don't think Flash has any way of beating MM. "

I think you're wrong because the Flash has one shotted martians before. 
 
@The Average Bear
said:
"Batman has stated that he has a way of neutralizing every member of the JLA should they go rogue. Hal Jordan caught Zoom, who moves faster than Flash, in Sinestro Corps Special #1. So no, I doubt he can defeat them all. "

Batman's way of neutralizing the Flash involved shooting a bullet at him and hoping he vibrated through it. 
 
In actual combat, the Flash beat up Batman when he was still a teenager, has moved Batman across the country in mid sentence and told Batman that the only way he could ever lay a hand on him is if he let him. 
 
As for Hal grabbing Zoom, Zoom was not moving faster than the Flash at the time because if he was, Hal wouldn't have been able to see him. Note that Zoom doesn't just move too fast for Green Lantern to see at his top speeds.  Those are so fast the Flash can't see him.  Obviously, catching Zoom for even a second was pure plot.
 
 
 
 
Avatar image for king_saturn
#10 Posted by King Saturn (220882 posts) - - Show Bio
if the Justice League is in character... I think a pissed off Wally West could eat through the core of the JL... especially since he has such a clear speed advantage here... 
Avatar image for jedixman
#11 Posted by JediXMan (37794 posts) - - Show Bio
@Zoom said:
" @JediXMan said:
"I don't think Flash has any way of beating MM. "

I think you're wrong because the Flash has one shotted martians before. 
 
 "
I didn't think all martians were as powerful as MM?
Moderator
Avatar image for matezoide2
#12 Posted by Matezoide2 (16064 posts) - - Show Bio
@Zoom said:

Batman's way of neutralizing the Flash involved shooting a bullet at him and hoping he vibrated through it

*spits drink*
what?!
Avatar image for zoom
#13 Posted by Zoom (14751 posts) - - Show Bio
@Matezoide said:
" @Zoom said:

Batman's way of neutralizing the Flash involved shooting a bullet at him and hoping he vibrated through it

*spits drink* what?! "

JLA Tower of Babel. 
 
Ra's al-Ghul steals all of Batman's files for beating the Justice League.  Batman's plan for beating the Flash is to shoot him with a vibrational bullet.  Flash vibrates through and it gives him super speed seizures. 
 
Of course his plan never factored in Flash moving out of the way...
 
@JediXMan
said:
"I didn't think all martians were as powerful as MM? "

There's not really any evidence they aren't.  Zum was dang fast and Miss Martian has gone toe to toe with Supergirl. 
 
 
 
Avatar image for daak1212
#14 Posted by daak1212 (8339 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Average Bear said:
"Batman has stated that he has a way of neutralizing every member of the JLA should they go rogue. Hal Jordan caught Zoom, who moves faster than Flash, in Sinestro Corps Special #1. So no, I doubt he can defeat them all. "

PIS
Avatar image for the_martian
#15 Posted by The_Martian (37399 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't current Wally West only to able to go supersonic?

Avatar image for kreg_penny
#16 Posted by kreg_penny (110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nobody:   Current Wally West can move many times faster than light.
Avatar image for supermandefender
#17 Posted by supermandefender (2170 posts) - - Show Bio

Speed force would take down most of the character...depends on who or why. I dun think Supes would be taken down by any flash majority of the time...even with Speed force. Im gonna take JLA side on this 1.

Avatar image for atphantom
#18 Posted by AtPhantom (14434 posts) - - Show Bio
@Zoom said:
" I think you're wrong because the Flash has one shotted martians before. "
Of course, said Martian was an imbecile who never once thought to use his other powers against Wally, save his speed.
 
Between Superman, Wonder woman and the Martian, I doubt Wally can win this.
Avatar image for fortanono
#19 Posted by Fortanono (4910 posts) - - Show Bio

MM Solos.

Avatar image for superguy1591
#20 Posted by Superguy1591 (7539 posts) - - Show Bio

Any other Flash would get their boots handed to them by Superman and WW, but Wally would take 'em all down.  
 
Wally would just steal Superman's speed and add it to his own. Once that happens it's game over.  
 
Flash wins. 

Avatar image for zoom
#21 Posted by Zoom (14751 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom said:
" @Zoom said:
" I think you're wrong because the Flash has one shotted martians before.  "
Of course, said Martian was an imbecile who never once thought to use his other powers against Wally, save his speed.  Between Superman, Wonder woman and the Martian, I doubt Wally can win this. "
I never said the Flash would win, only that there's no way the Martian Manhunter or Batman can beat him one on one. 
 
Really, none of the other leaguers should be able to beat him one on one but we all knew that already.
 
 
@Nobody
said:
"Isn't current Wally West only to able to go supersonic? "

Where'd you get that idea? 
 
 
Avatar image for emerald_lamp_2814
#22 Posted by emerald_lamp_2814 (666 posts) - - Show Bio

I could see him doing this if they are in seperate rooms if they are all together he could do it but it would be hard 
if they are together he would have to take out MM first then Superman Wonder Woman others woud be non factors
Avatar image for whitelantern_1
#23 Posted by WhiteLantern#1 (699 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash wins. Remember in that JLU episode where Lex and Wally switch brains. Flash has beaten superman and wonderwoman on the show before and he uses other powers that John Stewart says Flash doesn't use because they are too dangerous. And also when Superman was sent to another dimension by toyman and Flash said he's always able to joke around and play when they were in fights and he had superman on his side. He never went full force. If this is bloodlusted Wally that KNOWS the speedforce powers and everything, then he definately wins. Flash is also a lot smarter than he acts...
Avatar image for zoom
#24 Edited by Zoom (14751 posts) - - Show Bio

@WhiteLantern#1 said:

"Flash is also a lot smarter than he acts incomics with Batman."


 

Fixed it for you
Avatar image for whitelantern_1
#25 Posted by WhiteLantern#1 (699 posts) - - Show Bio
@Zoom:
Thanks haha  
 
anyways what do you think? Does Wally clear this?
Avatar image for captain13
#26 Posted by Captain13 (4704 posts) - - Show Bio

Bloodlusted/No Morals Wally curbstomps the JLA, JSA, Titans, Teen Titans, Secret Six, Outsiders, Suicide Squad, and every other DC team simultaneously. No one could see him or touch him, and he's faster than thought which puts even psychics at a disadvantage.

Avatar image for deranged_midget
#27 Posted by Deranged Midget (18346 posts) - - Show Bio

Forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't Wally a lot faster than Barry. The only people posing a threat to Wally are Superman and Martian Manhunter, everyone else gets destroyed.

Avatar image for superguy1591
#28 Posted by Superguy1591 (7539 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget: I thought about Superman, but Wally can steal other people's speed and add it to his own. So imagine Superman's speed mixed with Wally's... Supes wouldn't know which way Wally was heading. For Martian, it comes down to what's faster. Flash or Lantern's phasing ability?
Avatar image for deranged_midget
#29 Posted by Deranged Midget (18346 posts) - - Show Bio

Can Wally even hurt Superman? I heard any of the flash's just have normal strength, so what could Wally do to hurt Superman?

Avatar image for kreg_penny
#30 Posted by kreg_penny (110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Superguy1591 said:
" Any other Flash would get their boots handed to them by Superman and WW, but Wally would take 'em all down.   Wally would just steal Superman's speed and add it to his own. Once that happens it's game over.   Flash wins.  "
I agree.  I remember reading a Flash comic a few years back, round about the time that Linda lost her babies and left Wally, and the JLA didn't know Wally's identity, where Wally was outrunning Superman, and he said something to that effect, that he could steal Superman's momentum and stop him cold.  
Avatar image for zoom
#31 Posted by Zoom (14751 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

"Can Wally even hurt Superman? I heard any of the flash's just have normal strength, so what could Wally do to hurt Superman? "


 

Wally beat up Mongul once.  Mongul is tougher than Superman, able to tank heat vision.
Avatar image for superguy1591
#32 Edited by Superguy1591 (7539 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget: Simple physics, my friend.  
 

If I threw a bullet at a wall it wouldn't do anything, but if I shoot it out of a gun it would go right through the wall. The speed that the bullet  accumulated from the gunfire is makes the force at which it strikes greater. So, if Superman is at a stagnant position while the Flash, moving at speeds vastly superior to the speed of light, hits him it could cause an being, even Superman's, bones to shatter.  

 

Think of Flash as the bullet and Superman as the wall. 

Avatar image for deranged_midget
#33 Posted by Deranged Midget (18346 posts) - - Show Bio
@Superguy1591: I see, they should have just sent Wally against Doomsday then :P 
Do you have any scans of Wally wrecking a member(s) of the Justice League?
Avatar image for zoom
#34 Posted by Zoom (14751 posts) - - Show Bio

I know examples of Wally easily avoiding Kyle (Technis Imperative), stating that he could make Superman eat dirt halfway across the planet (Secret of Barry Allen) and beating Hal and Batman at the same time as a teenager (New Titans Vol 1 Issue 4).
Avatar image for thejuggernautpunch
#35 Posted by TheJuggernautpunch (6151 posts) - - Show Bio
@Zoom: Mongul is tougher than Superman ? Really ?

No Caption Provided


Avatar image for comicman24
#36 Posted by ComicMan24 (147651 posts) - - Show Bio

I think they will find a way to stop him.

Avatar image for thejuggernautpunch
#37 Posted by TheJuggernautpunch (6151 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget said:
" @Superguy1591: I see, they should have just sent Wally against Doomsday then :P Do you have any scans of Wally wrecking a member(s) of the Justice League? "
Too bad he failed, as well as his teammates.
Avatar image for ironshadow
#38 Posted by ironshadow (1583 posts) - - Show Bio
@turoksonofstone said:
" Casualties happen but Flash is put down. "
Avatar image for the_darknessss
#39 Posted by the darknessss (3266 posts) - - Show Bio

in a word no i dont think he can beat them all imo,,batman just throws a banana skin down anyways.
Avatar image for deranged_midget
#40 Posted by Deranged Midget (18346 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheJuggernautpunch: I don't remember Flash fighting Doomsday in the Death of Superman arc. I haven't read that for quite a time now so I might be mistaken.
Avatar image for pikminmania
#41 Posted by PikminMania (4770 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought I'd bump this by saying that I think Flash would win.

Avatar image for saren
#42 Posted by Saren (27534 posts) - - Show Bio

Wally stole Amazo's speed away from him because he would have slaughtered the entire Justice League before they even knew what hit them otherwise. That should be a fair indication of how this would play out.

Avatar image for uroborosphael
#43 Posted by uroborosphael (77 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superguy1591 said:

@Deranged Midget: Simple physics, my friend.

If I threw a bullet at a wall it wouldn't do anything, but if I shoot it out of a gun it would go right through the wall. The speed that the bullet accumulated from the gunfire is makes the force at which it strikes greater. So, if Superman is at a stagnant position while the Flash, moving at speeds vastly superior to the speed of light, hits him it could cause an being, even Superman's, bones to shatter.

Think of Flash as the bullet and Superman as the wall.

Well, also in Physics, there's the 3rd law of Newton (the action and reaction thing), well do you think Flash's bones are tougher than Supes? Because in my personal opinion, Superman's far more durable than Flash, can Flash deliver the punches with such a force (or speed) to KO Superman, without getting his bones shattered first?

Avatar image for kraytrawk
#44 Posted by KraytRawk (697 posts) - - Show Bio

I think MM could stop him. Though he could probably take the other ones out.

Avatar image for thegrayson
#45 Edited by TheGraySon (512 posts) - - Show Bio

@uroborosphael said:

@Superguy1591 said:

@Deranged Midget: Simple physics, my friend.

If I threw a bullet at a wall it wouldn't do anything, but if I shoot it out of a gun it would go right through the wall. The speed that the bullet accumulated from the gunfire is makes the force at which it strikes greater. So, if Superman is at a stagnant position while the Flash, moving at speeds vastly superior to the speed of light, hits him it could cause an being, even Superman's, bones to shatter.

Think of Flash as the bullet and Superman as the wall.

Well, also in Physics, there's the 3rd law of Newton (the action and reaction thing), well do you think Flash's bones are tougher than Supes? Because in my personal opinion, Superman's far more durable than Flash, can Flash deliver the punches with such a force (or speed) to KO Superman, without getting his bones shattered first?

This. Its retarded because technically anyone he punches at that speed should shatter his bones. This is why i write off any Flash vs anyone battles. No one should be able to see or touch him, and he shouldnt be punching people with like an IMP without breaking his own bones.

Avatar image for nerdsftw
#46 Posted by NerdsFTW (3764 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Average Bear said:

Batman has stated that he has a way of neutralizing every member of the JLA should they go rogue. Hal Jordan caught Zoom, who moves faster than Flash, in Sinestro Corps Special #1. So no, I doubt he can defeat them all.

Out of context. That was because Zoom was beating on Superman and Wonder Woman, and then afterwards Zolomon breaks Hal's constructs.

Without prep, Flash curbstomps.

Avatar image for thecannon
#47 Posted by TheCannon (20266 posts) - - Show Bio

No. Superman and Hal can take him. Manhunter may be able to, but Flash may be too quick.

Avatar image for _black
#48 Posted by _Black (2301 posts) - - Show Bio

@uroborosphael: @TheGraySon: The Speed Force protects him from breaking his bones, along with not incinerating due to friction and other things.

A bloodlusted Wally wins.

Avatar image for ximpossibrux
#49 Posted by XImpossibruX (5747 posts) - - Show Bio

@_Black said:

@uroborosphael: @TheGraySon: The Speed Force protects him from breaking his bones, along with not incinerating due to friction and other things.

A bloodlusted Wally wins.

this

Avatar image for thegrayson
#50 Posted by TheGraySon (512 posts) - - Show Bio

@_Black: thats lame