Thanos, Darkseid & Mongul vs Justice League & Avengers

@wardemon32: HAHAHAHAHA this guy is so funny

" 24 hours sundipped Superman " like it's gonna change something LOL

Go and read some Thanos comics, and see what the guy can do with 24h prep.

@warlordeternal:

Oh round one goes to Heroes. And he hasn't said anything really. How is he going to empower them in 24 hours? And what is he going to do?

• Batman is basically empowered from his upgrades
• Cyborg same
• Iron-Man same
• Superman 24 hour sun dip, power boost
• Savage Hulk is basically already boosted+24 hours to build up mroe rage, power up
• Hawkeye has time for upgrades for his trick arrows
• Thor can actually go warriors madness if he wanted to, power up
• Aquaman....time to drink lol
• Green Lantern ring boost

It goes BOTH ways.

Each member of team one is capable of taking on teams of heroes. Mongul himself took on 10 green lanterns; however, what team two has going for them is diversity.

While his constructs can be absorbed by Thor

• Thor is a team buster
• Savage Hulk is a team buster
• Superman is a team buster
• Barry is a team buster in his own right I guess
• Hal team buster
• Wonder woman team buster

Goes both ways again. Saying their team busters isn't a valid arguement.

@hunter_zolomon:

That easily? In both rounds?

@wardemon32:

IIRC Darkseid has done it in a matter of minutes.

@warlordeternal:

Scans?

@hunter_zolomon

Stop wanking.

Alright what is he going to do? I already showed how powerful Superman is and I lowballed it. He's not stronger, faster, or more powerful in ANY WAY.

Go read comment #173

I already proved strength but now let's go on about speed and I'm going to low ball this AGAIN.

We already said Superman get's 2x stronger in 15 minutes(which was lowballed) so let's apply this to speed. Superman basically goes FTL without sundipping. Within 15 minutes he was going near FTL while moving a planet so freely he'd be moving at about 2x the speed of light(low balled).

• Hour 1=8x the speed of light
• Hour 6=48x the speed of light
• Hour 12=288x the speed light
• Hour 24=3455x the speed of light

That's 643790592 miles per second. That's about 6.5 Million miles per second. Lowballed.

Show me when has Thanos reacted to something going that fast or moved that fast for that matter. What ever he has for prep isn't going to work same way it goes for Batman.

Batman and Iron-Man are both geniuses AND Batman is a prep master.

@

If I' m not mistaken,havent Darkseid one-shotted Superman a few times pre-52 and new 52??Lol..Please help me out if I'm wrong some1.And I'm sure Thanos took on the Avengers.Darkseid will tell Thanos of Supes powerset and how many times he 1-shotted him.Dont know alot of MJ but if he's anything like his pops...Yeah baby..

@kingares109:

I don't believe Thanos has ever one shotted Superman. Also this is sundipped superman, 24 hour sundipped superman.... You can go back and read what we've said if you want. Tell Thanos how much time she one shot him doesn't mean anything really or his powerset for that matter.

@wardemon32: These are scans are from Ancient_0f_Days.1. Channels all the powers of all the New Gods who died into Jimmy Olsen, granting him all their powers.

2. Under his command the Shadow Demons have become stronger than before, and even nearly killed Superman.

3. Turns Mary Marvel back into Black Mary.

4. Upgrades Kalibak’s strength, making him stronger then Orin, and granted him psi-beams which he takes out Mr.Miracle with.9. Depowers Secret with his Omega Beams returning her back to a normal girl.

@warlordeternal:Then I will say yes to the HellBoarers but no to the Death Spores. Okay, so the Spores, the Elite, and the Brimstone(s) are off the table along with "Artifacts" like Cosmic Cubes, Father Box(es), Infinity Gems and/or the Worlogog. Hmm. Team 1's job and their options just got slightly harder. Well, it comes back to Darkseid's overlooked partners and their potential here. Thanos has shown some great durability feats over the years, impressive tech, good prep, as well as serious energy projection and matter manipulation. Turning several members of the All-Star team into, I don't know, gummi bears(?) would be a detriment to them and a big morale drainer. Mongul with all those rings is a major energy projector/construct manipulator outside of his amazing brute strength and martial arts. He's certainly no dummy, by any measureable means. Not to mention his Black Mercy's have no regard for the superhuman durability of any of the All-Stars and would be devastating here, considering just how hard it is to break free of their control. Not to mention Warworld's cannons that could obliterate the entire planet in one shot. But yeah, without the Spores to content with, the All-Stars have a MUCH better shot at surviving/winning this.

@wardemon32:

• Whatever number of hell boarers(Who are a bit strong)Can you show some feats?
• And Hell Boarers(Feats?)

I have got to buy a scanner. But without one I'll have to talk you through it. Hell-Borers are 60-80 story tall drillers with several multi-megaton warheads that are designed to do one of two things: 1.) Cause the core to shift itself to the surface, transforming the planet into a "Mini-Apokolips" or 2.) Simply destabilize the planets core turning the planet itself into a primed warhead and cause it to duplicate the final moments of Krypton. Darkseid has thousands of these things and my guess is that under this circumstance, he would opt for the latter option simply to rid himself of the "nuisance" of these "pitiful mortals". IMHO.

@warlordeternal:

In one scan he states "I've invested Time. Energy. and what "Thanks" do I get?" so it obviously takes time for this stuff and it's not definiate.

I have got to buy a scanner.

One reason why digital comics is better. You can just simply screenshot, plug your ipod in, go to images, my desktop, iPod, and take the folders out from there.

And woudln't that kill him also? The main reason the Heroes take this is because they can do like NOTHING to a sundipped Superman for that long. If this was Wally, oh god.

@wardemon32: One reason why digital comics is better.

Interesting... I'll have to look into that.

@wardemon32: I said Thanos 1-shotted Superman??

@kingares109:

I meant Darkseid lol

@wardemon32: Darkseid had nothing to do her powers. What was quoted was just out of context. what the scan shows is him using his omega beams to rob her of her power.

that was magical prophecy piss Drax was "Destined to kill thanos" or some such garbage during annihilation.

I think with thanos around it would be easy enough to get DS a standard Bulletproof vest. :P

During the first thanos war thanos kicked the shit out of all the avengers (Including thor, Or maybe it was just thing and thor i dont remember exactly but i do recall thor was there and thor got owned.) Sense than thanos himself has had several upgrades in power.

@cliffrice:During the first thanos war thanos kicked the shit out of all the avengers (Including thor, Or maybe it was just thing and thor i dont remember exactly but i do recall thor was there and thor got owned.) Sense than thanos himself has had several upgrades in power.

That's eh... a little saltier a description than I would've used, but your point is well taken cliffrice. Thanos HAS proven that on his own , he can mow down top level heroes from his universe using just h2h means. Tag teaming him with both Darkseid and a fully loaded Mongul makes this a nightmare for the All-Star team.

@warlordeternal:

Darkseid had nothing to do her powers. What was quoted was just out of context. what the scan shows is him using his omega beams to rob her of her power.

So how high can these powers be increased to? Can he increase someones powers who already has more powers than him? And I doubt he can do it to himself or he would be beating Superman. And I want to know HOW BIG of a power boost would it be and would it even be relevant?

Would it get him to even HALF of Supermans strength, speed, durability, stanima(Which I highly doubt it would)? So if it can't do any of that than a power boost isn't even relevant because this is all targeted of just Superman. Most of this is just "Superman vs the big three". If they can't even get to half of what Superman can they can't win no matter what way you put it. You still have Thor and Savage Hulk backing Superman and Thor can even go Warriors Madness.

Supermans laser vision should probably be able to end all of this alone. Darkseid can die by the Suns heat am I correct? Supermans lasers is already hot as the sun(and this was from all the way in space). I think his powes actually increases by 3 after the 15 minutes but I'll leave it at two.

Suns heat/Laser Vision: 27 Million Degrees

Laser Vision after 6 hours: 162 Million Degrees

12 hours: 324 Million Degress

24 hours: 648 Million Degrees

What's showing that Thanos, Mongul, or Darkseid can take this? Keep in mind Monguls constructs

• Are kind of useless since Thor can absorb it so he'd have to resort to H2H which he already lost to Hal trying to do that
• Can be destryed by Iron-Man since the guy basically packs nukes/lasers and Mongul hasn't been shown to withstand that type of damage

Like there's no way they can heighten up their powers THAT much.

Having a power boost isn't much of a reason of winning when Superman, Thor(Can get one anytime w/ Warriros Madness), and Savage Hulk(24 hours to get even stronger) can get a "power boost" also. And that's not even including the rest. And din't you get that from some where else? We don't actually know how long it took Darkseid to do something like this and if he can even do it in 24 hours. Those powers that he gave that girl was specifically made for her.

Monguls durability can't be all that great is he can be pierced by Sinestro and Green Lantern. Those shields go down and the same thing is happening again.

And it's now like Flash can't go around phasing through everyone he sees.

I'm not sure how much more powerful. We'll need to find someone with a lot more knowledge on Darkseid.

Mongul and Hal's fight briefly continued in the very next issue with both going at it. The problem was that Mongul was unaware of Hal's ability to damage yellow. Once he found out he could, then the battle actually got started. Can Iron man easily keep up with a lantern (not to mention one that has eight rings). Darkseid didnt give the girl powers; he just took them away.

Monguls skin was periced by Hal when he was ringless and Sinestro couldnt damage Mongul because he was too powerful. He had to activate a fail safe.

Sinestro wanted to beat Mongul at his own game (in combat) in order to re-establish himself as ruler of the Sinestro Corps. The entire Corps was there watching so he needed to make an example of him. Sinestro like every great dictator has a massive ego, but what he didnt realize is that is how powerful Mongul truely was. Keep in mind Sinestro has no real power without the rings but Mongul himself is capable of bench pressing moons. Multiply that by eight rings and you have someone that beat the living hell out of Sinestro.

As for his Durabilty, Yeah it's not as good as guys like Superman and Thor, but he can still take a ton of damage and keep fighting like its not the severe.

Sundipped Superman broke Darkseid's arm with almost no trouble before.

Mongul is not much of a big threat to Superman nowadays, weakened Superman have an edge in beating Mongul during the sparing.

@warlordeternal:

In lieu of the Death Spores and the Brimstone(s), does Darkseid get to take the Shadow Demons off their leashes? I'd forgotten how dangerous they could be, especially since he and his teammates would effectually be outnumbered and/or surrounded here. Among Darkseid's many options, they could truly be a nightmare for the All-Stars as VERY few of them have any answer for them whatsoever.

@angryhulks:

Yeah I remeber that.

The fight that you are refering to with Mongul sounds like Superman's first fight with Post Crisis Mongul Sr. the Mongul in this fight is different; however, I am not doubting the fact that a 24hr sundipped Superman is one powerful SOB and can take down Mongul.

@warlordeternal: Impressive. Sundipped Superman is a very tangible threat to Team 1. So how about it, does Darkseid unleash the Shadow Demons upon the All-Star team?

@heraldofganthet:

What are the shadows weakness? I would assume it's light so should Iron-Man and Thor be taking them down without even fighting them directly? I mean they both can emit light so isn't that a weakness for a shadow? I honestly don't know mucha bout the shadow demons.

And wouldn't they be useless in the day time since they don't leech of of their actual shadows but their shadows of their own?

@warlordeternal

As for his Durabilty, Yeah it's not as good as guys like Superman and Thor, but he can still take a ton of damage and keep fighting like its not the severe.

I know he's strong and such but him not being able to back himself in the durability department is a BIG factor. I mean since he's like weaker than both of them he could atleast have a high durability or he's going down.

Wolverine is much weaker than Hulk but he's been shown to put up a fight with him because it's hard to take him down. It's not going to be that hard to take down Mongul since his durability is low.

Mongul and Hal's fight briefly continued in the very next issue with both going at it. The problem was that Mongul was unaware of Hal's ability to damage yellow. Once he found out he could, then the battle actually got started. Can Iron man easily keep up with a lantern (not to mention one that has eight rings). Darkseid didnt give the girl powers; he just took them away.

Well I'm going to add ABC logic to this if that's OK.

Blue Beetle was kind of made to defend himself from Green Lanterns, and if you saw the first enconter of him v. Guy Gardner he was actually able to crack his shield and he was holding back.

Now you have Iron-Man who basically has the same tech(Kind of) so shouldn't his blast be able to do teh same? And the fact that Iron-Mans blast are much stronger AND you're giving him 24 hours for this battle mean that he could get through his shields or constructs easily? The only way Mongul actually survives long in this battle is if he keeps on making constructs but Iron-Mans armour is VERY durabily. He took a rain of nukes at 2% health and he was still up.

One thing about his Omega Beams is that it follows you forever but it's not THAT fast. The speed Superman should be moving at should be able to take up Mongul, Thanos, or even Darkseid for that matter and put them right infront of their own beams. So he somehow took away her powers and stored it, so how is the whole "I can give people powers" thing relevant if all he did was take her powers, store it, then give it back to her?

Monguls skin was periced by Hal when he was ringless and Sinestro couldnt damage Mongul because he was too powerful. He had to activate a fail safe.

....

Sinestro wanted to beat Mongul at his own game (in combat) in order to re-establish himself as ruler of the Sinestro Corps. The entire Corps was there watching so he needed to make an example of him. Sinestro like every great dictator has a massive ego, but what he didnt realize is that is how powerful Mongul truely was. Keep in mind Sinestro has no real power without the rings but Mongul himself is capable of bench pressing moons. Multiply that by eight rings and you have someone that beat the living hell out of Sinestro.

That still doesn't prove his skin can't be pierced. GL's construct was also able to go through Amazo and he has Supermans durability and his powers also. He blasted a whole STRAIGHT through Amazo.

And when Flash was sighting Amazo he got one of the Uranium rods and just blitzed Amazo and it went sraight in his arm(Keep in mind he had Supermans durability).

Being able to bench press a moon doesn't make up for durability.

Gallery

@heraldofganthet: I'm gonna say yes.

Mongul does have a healing factor. and don't compare Wolverine to Mongul please, I already had that discussion with someone else.

Exactly.

Iron Man isn't Blue Beetle and Blue Beatle Isn't Iron Man. I'm gonna leave it at that.

Good points but what about the Black Mercies? IIRC they have affected even robots.

He didn't

Isn't that a bit B.S then? If that's the case then couldn't Mongul do the same to Superman in round one?

This is probably a stupid question but was the Flash Wally?

I was just stating the fact that he was superior to Sinestro in combat.

Had just discovered these scans...

@warlordeternal:

Even though he was made to defend himself against GLs doesn't really mean anything because he was holding back and that doesn't mean Iron-Man can do any damage either.

Iron Man isn't Blue Beetle and Blue Beatle Isn't Iron Man. I'm gonna leave it at that.

So? It's compareable. They both have the same type of armor + Tony has 24 hours to upgrade. That's enough to say he can do some sort of damage.

And this isn't even including Batman, Cyborg, Hawkeye, and Aquaman who I would put to fight against Mongul.

That would be like saying you can't compare Quicksilver to Kid Flash when they both have about the same power.

Isn't that a bit B.S then? If that's the case then couldn't Mongul do the same to Superman in round one?

No, he can't blitz Superman. If anything Superman can blitz him. And he doesn't run as fast as Flash to say he can do the same because Flash had to be running very fast peice someone who has the durability of Superman.

And yea it was Wally

I was just stating the fact that he was superior to Sinestro in combat.

I understand he was superior to Sinestro in combat but what does it mean if you can simply be killed by GL constructs just like that? You say that he wasn't KOd and he got back up but he was down for the count. Hal could have killed him if he wanted to by doing the same thing to his head. How is he going to survive if he can get his heart and brain taken out without much effort?

Mongul does have a healing factor. and don't compare Wolverine to Mongul please, I already had that discussion with someone else.

READ. THE. COMMENT. How is it not compareable? You keep on saying you can't compare this but you can compare that but you're not telling me HOW you can't compare the two. It's the same exact instance. I never said he doesn't have a healing factor, obviously he does if he gets back up after that. Just because you have a healing factor doesn't mean it's on par with Wolverines.

Explanation

Instance: Wolverine(The weaker guy) can last against Hulk(The guy thats like 100 times stronger than wolverine easily) because he has a very good healing factor and durability.

Scenario:Mongul(The weaker guy) can't last against *let's say Hulk*(The guy that's much stronger that Mongul) because he doesn't have the durability and healing factor to do so.

See how it's compareable? Both are weak but one has the durability and healing factor while the other one lacks that. It's easier to pound in Mongul than it is Wolverine. Wolverine would NEVER be pierced by a GL construct.

The three things you guys are saying is that

• They can bring in a lot of technology
• They can get a power boost
• The Black Merceries can take them down

And all of that can be used against them

• Tech, Tony should be able to hack that and use it agains them
• Power Boost, so can the other 5 powerhouses not including the the other 4 that can get tech upgrades
• While they can be used againt them also and it's not like their going to sit there and watch it on their team mates chest.

While Aquamans army or The Amazonians can't be used against them, unless ofcourse Thanos can TP all of them which I don't see happening.

In JLU they used the Black Merceries against him. Shouldn't it work the same here?

P.S. it happens at the end of the video.

Edit: I didn't see the pictures you uploaded to cover that. This seems like just a ONE time thing. You see the more Hulk is angry the harder it is to control him. Kind of like the World War Hulk arc. Hulk wasn't all enraged and going ape sh*t like he usually does. He was just standing there calm.

You see not THATS something you can't compare ona terms TP. Savage Hulk and a clam Hulk?

Professor X can't even do that.

I never said Iron Man cant do any damage just the fact that they're very different characters.

Does Kid Flash have Speed Force?

I was referring to the Green Lantern.

You're missing the point. This isn't a ringless Mongul. He has all eight of his rings in both rounds.

He was still talking to him. And I did say in character didn't I?

I'm not talking about healing factor's, I'm talking about who the characters are. Entirely different.

Hulk has easily defeated Wolverine in the past.

A sensible writer would know that one punch from Hulk would send Wolverine into the next state.

Not Really.

Threw the eyes into the brain.

Threw the gut, under the ribs, out comes the heart.

@warlordeternal:

Does Kid Flash have Speed Force?

Yea but doesn't mean he's on par with the rest. Wally hit light speed after he became Kid Flash I believe. Still compareable but you can use someone like Dash and Quicksilver

You're missing the point. This isn't a ringless Mongul. He has all eight of his rings in both rounds.

All the ring is going to help him do is create a shield for himself. It's not increasing his durability. If you get through the ring you get to him. Getting through his constructs wouldn't be a big deal, you haven't shown me him and his construct/shield feats. You just showed a fight that was mainly H2H.

Plus Batman has the insider suit which also has GLs powers AND with prep he would have access to the Lantern to power up the ring or suit, whatever it's powered by.

He was still talking to him. And I did say in character didn't I?

Yes I am very dark indeed lmao. And he won didn't he? You said win by KO or Death. Why wouldn't he do the same to him again? He has to kill him to win so why not do it? He's supposed to just stand there knowing that he'd get up after that and just watch him? he's obviously going to kill him if that's not enough to KO.

I'm not talking about healing factor's, I'm talking about who the characters are. Entirely different.

Nah I'm not mad, I'm actually having fun. I just did that to make you go back and actually read it instead of me saying "Read the comment" which you probably not going to do.

I'm not talking about healing factor's, I'm talking about who the characters are. Entirely different.

Yra but that was the whole reason of me to bring up Wolverine. If I'm talking about the healing factor/durability then you say "Don't compare them" I would assume you're talking about healing facotr/durability not the character. What does the character have to do with anything?

Hulk has easily defeated Wolverine in the past.

....

A sensible writer would know that one punch from Hulk would send Wolverine into the next state.

You're not getting it. It's not a matter of punching him into the next state, it's about taking him down for good. Which isn't an easy task. That's why I said he'd last long. And did that punch KO wolverine?

I'm not saying Wolverine's going to win(since he's not) but he sure would last longer than Mongul. And he has actually beat Hulk before but now he just last a while until the point where he loses.

Threw the eyes into the brain.

Threw the gut, under the ribs, out comes the heat.

Seriously? Well his eyes would grow back for one. But I was talking about where it hit Mongul. Those same spots that Mongul was hit wouldn't effect Wolverine.

Look closely at the scans in that fight. In scan four of his battle with the lanterns when he slammed Isamot Kol into the ground you can notice a lantern blast deflect right off of him because of his shields. In the very next scan You can see Sodam Yat damaging his own hand punching Mongul in the face; however, Mongul's shields were still up. And then there's scan two of his battle against Sinestro.

Interesting. Can you tell me more about the insider suit.

Is it in character for Hal to kill his opponents? Does he regularly impale and disembowel them? If he does then why are guys like Sinestro and Atrocitus (among others) still alive? and he's not the only person in this fight. There are still 12 other people he could rely on to get his back and help him K.O (or kill in your case) Mongul.

I don't know, you just brought him into this.

It completely took him out of the fight.

When exactly has Wolverine beaten the Hulk?

While the constructs are threw them and in his brain?

Oh. Well yeah if he aims for the bones, but a few of those didn't hit any at all.

While I love this ep, it wasn't entirely accurate on a few things.

1. They lowered Mongu'ls power and durability in order to make Superman appear more ferocious and stronger despite that it is based on a Pre-Crisis book in which Mongul dominated Superman more then Superman dominated him.

2. You just cant rip it off like that. In the book Mongul used special gloves to handle the Black Mercy and while he was fighting Superman, Robin (not Wonder Woman who was beaten within an inch of her life) used the gloves to get it off of Batman (who remained unconscious).

@wardemon32:

What are the shadows weakness? I would assume it's light so should Iron-Man and Thor be taking them down without even fighting them directly? I mean they both can emit light so isn't that a weakness for a shadow? I honestly don't know mucha bout the shadow demons.

And wouldn't they be useless in the day time since they don't leech of of their actual shadows but their shadows of their own?

Gosh, you're taking me down memory lane on this one (lol). If I remember correctly, Superman hit those things with pulsed bursts of x-ray vision to disrupt their substance (it didn't kill them, but it did temporarily slow them down long enough for him to get the hell out of there). This pissed Darkseid off royally who vowed to Superman that would never happen again. Now whether or not Darkseid actually followed through on that threat, I don't know (I was about 10 years old when I last read that story); But the Shadow Demons were able to operate freely in the daylight, only passively drawing power from ambient shadows on the battlefield. They just might draw their power from the Shadowlands, but I believe this has yet to be determined in the DCU proper.

@warlordeternal:

Look closely at the scans in that fight. In scan four of his battle with the lanterns when he slammed Isamot Kol into the ground you can notice a lantern blast deflect right off of him because of his shields. In the very next scan You can see Sodam Yat damaging his own hand punching Mongul in the face; however, Mongul's shields were still up. And then there's scan two of his battle against Sinestro.

A Lantern blast may not do the trick but ut's not like its going to be hard for him to make a knife/spaer or whatever and just throw it straight at him. I said once that shield is down or once something get's through he's good as dead.

Is it in character for Hal to kill his opponents? Does he regularly impale and disembowel them? If he does then why are guys like Sinestro and Atrocitus (among others) still alive? and he's not the only person in this fight. There are still 12 other people he could rely on to get his back and help him K.O (or kill in your case) Mongul.

....

I don't know, you just brought him into this.

Doesn't matter if it's in characteror not really. You said Death by KO. The death is an open option for him so why wouldn't he do it. The reason he doesn't go around doing it because he wasb't capable of doing it. But now you're giving him an option to kill. Hal killed Mandrakk in final crisis.

Yea but I made a perfect case about it. Yea he's strong but he's not very durable. I was saying thats a big factor because he wont last long enough to have a big effect.

Their both considered "Weak" in this battle but Wolvine would last longer than Mongul.

It completely took him out of the fight.

1. Yea that only happened once
2. It doesn't matter if it took him out of the fight. The objective is to KO or Kill him. If it didn't KO or Kill him then him knocking him to another state wouldn't even matter.

When exactly has Wolverine beaten the Hulk?

While the constructs are threw them and in his brain?

While the constructs are threw them and in his brain?

Oh. Well yeah if he aims for the bones, but a few of those didn't hit any at all.

Here. You can look it up though. He did in Old Man Logan also when he just ripped through his stomach but I'm not sure if it was canon.

Not like he's not going to take them out. See how that wont really take him down?

How would he even know where to aim and it's not like wolverine is going to be like "Hey I'm just going to stand still here while you try to impale me, BUT WAIT! you have to hit me right here because my bones are admantium and that wont work" His healing factor is AMAZING so that's not going to have him down like it did Mongul. Even when he got tore in half the guy was still moving around.

1. They lowered Mongu'ls power and durability in order to make Superman appear more ferocious and stronger despite that it is based on a Pre-Crisis book in which Mongul dominated Superman more then Superman dominated him.

2. You just cant rip it off like that. In the book Mongul used special gloves to handle the Black Mercy and while he was fighting Superman, Robin (not Wonder Woman who was beaten within an inch of her life) used the gloves to get it off of Batman (who remained unconscious).

It's not a matter of they depowered him. I didn't put it up to show how well he did in a fight. It was to show that those Black Mereceries can backfire.

But yea it's not like the heroes can't use lasers to take it off..

And most of the team has gloves anyways?

Gosh, you're taking me down memory lane on this one (lol). If I remember correctly, Superman hit those things with pulsed burses of x-ray vision to disrupt their substance (it didn't kill them, but it did temporarily slow them down long enough for him to get the hell out of there). This pissed Darkseid off royally who vowed to Superman that would never happen again. Now whether or not Darkseid actually followed through on that threat, I don't know (I was about 10 years old when I last read that story); But the Shadow Demons were able to operate freely in the daylight, only passively drawing power from ambient shadows on the battlefield. They just might draw their power from the Shadowlands, but I believe this has yet to be determined in the DCU proper.

X-Ray vision? X-Ray vision hurts them? X-Ray vision just allows you to look through them wouldn't it?

@warlordeternal:

Oh yea forgot to show you the insider suit. Well the insider suit is basically a replica of the JLA.

Gallery

@wardemon32: X-Ray vision? X-Ray vision hurts them? X-Ray vision just allows you to look through them wouldn't it?

LOL! No, somehow it just managed to disrupt their substance very briefly. Superman hightailed it out of there soon after that, and Darkseid was quite pissed about it, screaming to him that he'd never be able to pull that off again (paraphrase). I laughed at your question not because I was trying to be rude, but because thinking back on it, as a little kid I thought that was an ingenious plan on Superman's part (I was such a noob back then lol)! Still, X-Rays ARE a radiation/energy source, so.. there is that. But I looked back over this thread a moment ago and saw a scan posted by @warlordeternal of Superman fighting the Shadow Demons that looks far newer than the story I read as a kid. It seems as though Darkseid did make good on his promise to have Desaad remove that former vulnerability in their current incarnation. So it wasn't an empty threat after all. That's encouraging (in a megalomaniacal sort of way) that he keeps his promises. Too bad he's evil.

Mongul doesn't just die once something goes threw his head or in his brain, its happened before. How the lanterns managed to defeat Mongul was thanks to Bzzd quick thinking. (Bzzd is actually quite a powerful lantern) while everyone was fighting Mongul to no avail he snuck within him and continually blasted away.

That didn't even kill him and they still had to keep blasting like there lives depended on it (which it did). After that they left him in a pile of hundreds maybe thousands of Black Mercies believing him to be dead, but...

I'm not sure if Wolverine #145 counts as a victory as Hulk left him in the dirt unconscious. Wolverine did put up a pretty decent fight but wasn't that because he became one of Apocalypse horsemen.

I don't think Old man Logan was canon, but don't quote me on that.

As for knock out punches, I remember in Hulk and Wolverines first fight, that a glancing blow to the head knocked him out. During a Wolverine/Hulk crossover(cant remember which, but if I find it I'll let you know) Hulk beats Logan to a bloody mess; Logan did fight back but in the end he went rag doll. In the World War Hulk arc, Hulk kept pounding away at Logan's head giving him brain damage and knocked him out. and it happened twice IIRC.

You said "where it hit Mongul" so I just pointed out that some of those didn't hit any bones.

Its like I said before, Mongul was unaware of Hals new found ability to damage yellow and once he realized this the battle truly got started.

Was just pointing that out as a geek, don't even worry about it.

If you watch that episode, Batman tried and it didn't work; however, it didn't happen in the story so you might be right unless that green blast is Hal trying to get it off in which case that might not work.

I said special gloves.

Without the gloves you cant take it off unless the victim understands that nothing they are dreaming is real and keep it from attacking you.

Oh yea forgot to show you the insider suit. Well the insider suit is basically a replica of the JLA.

Gallery

Very Nice Scans!

@warlordeternal:

Mongul doesn't just die once something goes threw his head or in his brain, its happened before. How the lanterns managed to defeat Mongul was thanks to Bzzd quick thinking. (Bzzd is actually quite a powerful lantern) while everyone was fighting Mongul to no avail he snuck within him and continually blasted away.

Well it didn't really go to his brain. That's like shooting someone in the eye(which you can survive). A direct construct straight through his head or heart would end him because it would literraly take out like half of his brain.

I'm not sure if Wolverine #145 counts as a victory as Hulk left him in the dirt unconscious. Wolverine did put up a pretty decent fight but wasn't that because he became one of Apocalypse horsemen.

I don't think Old man Logan was canon, but don't quote me on that.

As for knock out punches, I remember in Hulk and Wolverines first fight, that a glancing blow to the head knocked him out. During a Wolverine/Hulk crossover(cant remember which, but if I find it I'll let you know) Hulk beats Logan to a bloody mess; Logan did fight back but in the end he went rag doll. In the World War Hulk arc, Hulk kept pounding away at Logan's head giving him brain damage and knocked him out. and it happened twice IIRC.

You're not getting it. The case isn't is if Wolverine can beat Hulk(Which he probaobly can 1/10 times) but who would last longer. Mongul would go down to Hulk also. But because of durability and healing factor Mongul goes down first.

Tie Mongul up and Wolverine and let both of them take blows to the point where one goes down. Wolverine is going to win. This can be applied to many other people such as Deadpool, Iceman, etc...

I was saying that once they get through Mongul defenses he's going down. You were saying that he can take the hits and what not but I already pointed out how he can be impaled by constructs alone.

You said "where it hit Mongul" so I just pointed out that some of those didn't hit any bones.

Its like I said before, Mongul was unaware of Hals new found ability to damage yellow and once he realized this the battle truly got started.

How is Mongul realizing his weakness or not relevant? That wouldn't stop the constrcuts from going through him again.

And actually out of 4 contrusts 3 hit his bones. The only one that didn't hit his bones was his arm and it just barely missed it. Those constructs were HUGE so those wouldn't even go through Wolverine.

When he impaled Mongul that was a KO since he was down for the count so he's automatically out. Doesn't matter if he can get back up or not, he was already KOd so he lost. If you lost you can't get back in.

You have to look at where all of those blast are coming from. Around the mid section. They are all hitting vital organs. Bzzd would then have to shoot his way up into the head in order to blast out the eye. And the Black Mercies were coming out of his head as well as other parts of his body.

I asked when did Wolverine beat Hulk and you posted that link and brought up Old Man Logan.

I think you think I'm saying Mongul can't be beaten. I'm not saying that at all. You've been talking about how he goes down very very easily. What I'm saying is that it would be more difficult then you're making it out to be. You also have to keep in mind that he has two powerful allies and in round 2 an army among a few other things. Now that doesn't guarantee a victory for team one as you've clearly brought up many things that the heroes can do but it just shows that this fight isn't really a stomp.

I also just happened to think about something...Is Superman really going to allow his teammates to kill?

@warlordeternal:

Just going to say this but Wolvierine basically could have beaten Hulk if he wanted to but he stoppped.

You have to look at where all of those blast are coming from. Around the mid section. They are all hitting vital organs. Bzzd would then have to shoot his way up into the head in orderto blast out the eye. And the Black Mercies were coming out of his head as well as other parts of his body.

1. You see how he flew straight through his head? He must be pretty bad when it coems to durability don't you think?

2. So he can take a contruct straight through his heart and chest taking his full heart out and his brain?

3. BTW none of those actually went straight through his head

I think you think I'm saying Mongul can't be beaten. I'm not saying that at all. You've been talking about how he goes down very very easily. What I'm saying is that it would be more difficult then you're making it out to be. You also have to keep in mind that he has two powerful allies and in round 2 an army among a few other things. Now that doesn't guarantee a victory for team one as you've clearly brought up many things that the heroes can do but it just shows that this fight isn't really a stomp.

Well obviously it's not going to be easy getting through his constructs but once they do it's only. And those "two powerful opponents" would be getting smashed in my Savage Hulk, Thor, Superman, Wonderwoman, and Flash. And Darkseid would even go down by Savage Hulk.

I also just happened to think about something...Is Superman really going to allow his teammates to kill?

Dodging is an option but I highly doubt he was going to do it. During that fight all he did was just take blast the whole time. When did he ever dodge? And he didn't dodge the first time Hal impaled him, plus Batman is here and he should possibly be able to do the same.

You think he's going to care about that the JLA does or even paying attention to them? What is he going to do is they kill? He's not going to do anything and even if; he's just going to punch on Thanos/Darkseid and after the fight he'd give them some sort of lecture. And it's not like the Avengers wont be going in for the kill. Superman even punching them twice should technically kill them.

Thier basiaclly killing the parademons when they hack their tech. Why not care for them also? Killing is killing. He's not going to start attacking his own teammate mid battle to tell them to stop killing.

I'm not talking about his durability as we both clearly know that constructs go threw him. What I'm saying is he can take a sh!t ton of damage and still be alive and/or fighting.

Not full but some.

I know. I said that Bzzd had to shoot up into his head; There is no clear way for something even his size to get up into the head.

In round one and two?

Mongul Jr. like his father and Sinestor has an extremely massive ego, but unlike Sinestro or even his father he has completely gone off the deep end, or "Bananas". He is mental unstable to the point where he will talk to his sister's rotten decapitated head.

He has in the past. In fact during Infinite Crisis the Trinity (superman, batman, wonderwoman) had a brief rumble with Mongul. Mongul manged to hold his own against the three, knocking Bruce about like a toy and one shoting Wonder Woman threw a wall. Just before Mongul could kill Batman, Superman comes back into the fight swinging like crazy and amping the heat way up on his heat vision to briefly KO Mongul. While he was checking to see if Bruce was alright, Wonder Woman attempts to kill Mongul with her sword, but Superman steps in and quickly stops her, allowing Mongul to knock everyone off and get away.

You know that has really bugged me threw out my years of reading comics in the fact that Superman never wants to kill despite the fact the he's just demolishing Parademons...What the hell did they ever do to you Superman lol.

Um no!! If Thanos had the I.G then this would be a mismatch!! Thanos fought abstracts, along with the whole Marvel Universe and won! And Batman is good with prep but so is Thanos, which is how he got the Infinity Gems to begin with!

@warlordeternal:

He has in the past. In fact during Infinite Crisis the Trinity (superman, batman, wonderwoman) had a brief rumble with Mongul. Mongul manged to hold his own against the three, knocking Bruce about like a toy and one shoting Wonder Woman threw a wall. Just before Mongul could kill Batman, Superman comes back into the fight swinging like crazy and amping the heat way up on his heat vision to briefly KO Mongul. While he was checking to see if Bruce was alright, Wonder Woman attempts to kill Mongul with her sword, but Superman steps in and quickly stops her, allowing Mongul to knock everyone off and get away.

Yea but in this fight he wont be focusing on Mongul so Mongul has no-one to save him. Superman isn't going to stop fighting Darkseid or Thanos when the objective is to KILL. You making the mission to kills means that they are going to kill in character or not. It's not in Flash character to kill but if he has to he's going to vibrate your molecules or IMP you.

Dodging is an option but I highly doubt he was going to do it. During that fight all he did was just take blast the whole time.(true) When did he ever dodge? And he didn't dodge the first time Hal impaled him,(he didn't think he needed to) plus Batman is here and he should possibly be able to do the same.(also true, but I don't think he's willing to take a life)

....

But you made it for tehm to kill each other so their going to kill. You can't makea thread and have one of teh option as they can kill but then say that they can't kill. Where was it stated he didn't think he needed to?

Evin if it's not a kill it's a KO so Mongul is out of the game and that leaves them to attack Thanos or Darkseid.

With prep I do not see how the Flash has a chance here unless you feel that Flash can one shot Galatus? Because Thanos always has shields around him like when him and Galactus fought and even then Galactus gave Thanos his props because breaking through Thanos shields was not as easy as Galactus thought it would be

@darklord_apoc:

With prep I do not see how the Flash has a chance here unless you feel that Flash can one shot Galatus? Because Thanos always has shields around him like when him and Galactus fought and even then Galactus gave Thanos his props because breaking through Thanos shields was not as easy as Galactus thought it would be

I never made a case about Flash. And I believe what you are talking about was a depowered galactus or he was starving. And it's not like Flash can't vibrate through the shield anyways and take anyone he wasn't with him...

Wally West may not be able to one shot galactus but a few punches in he's going down, what thanos did was beat a weak galactus at the time if we're thinking about the same instance. And it never really said how powerful the blast was and it deff wasn't a galaxy/solarsystem/planet busing blast.

@wardemon32: No no no no I'm not saying "arrggh they cant kill because I say so" because clearly the can and have in the past. I'm just trying to think out how these battles will go done as Superman refuses to kill his opponents or even let his allies, Batman also doesn't kill.

I've told you many times that he wasn't aware of Hals new found ability to damage yellow. In the past Hal had a really hard time fighting Mongul Sr because of his yellow skin. Mongul Jr ripped off his own armor, exposing his chest.

Also who says Superman wont fight Mongul or vice versa in round 1 or 2. Mongul's most hated enemy is Superman as he was the arch nemesis of his father. He may actually chose to fight Superman instead of anybody else.

@warlordeternal:

I've told you many times that he wasn't aware of Hals new found ability to damage yellow. In the past Hal had a really hard time fighting Mongul Sr because of his yellow skin. Mongul Jr ripped off his own armor, exposing his chest.

Also who says Superman wont fight Mongul or vice versa in round 1 or 2. Mongul's most hated enemy is Superman as he was the arch nemesis of his father. He may actually chose to fight Superman instead of anybody else.

Why not go for the strognest two? You want to put him up against Mongul? I was just being nice by not putting him up agaisnt Mongul. Putting him against Mongul is a curbstomp. The fight will be over in the first microsecond. If Mongul can barely handle a regular Superman how is he going to take Superman? the guy that can fly through his constructs like it was never even there? He goes for Superman in round 2 and he's getting mowed down.

Mongul Jr. has the strength to contend with Superman, but no flight or speed; however with the rings he now has what he needs. Will it be enough in round 1? Possibly. Will it be enough in round 2 against a sun dipped superman? Hell no!

Also I just happened to think, Darkseid has ties to Lex Luthor. Couldn't he get some Kryptonite from him?

No, Darkseid was thrown into a sun before I believe and his Omega Beams are much, much, much hotter than Superman's. Darkseid also has the power to ressurect people, as he did when him and his para demon's attacked Wonder Woman and her Amazons! I doubt Superman can get through Thanos shields due to the fact Galactus was impressed by his shields power. Thanos also survived an exploded universe!

@warlordeternal: Also I just happened to think, Darkseid has ties to Lex Luthor. Couldn't he get some Kryptonite from him?

Very possibly. Even likely. But more than anything else, Darkseid would probably have his henchmen scour the known universe for Kryptonite fragments. Still, Luthor would provide Darkseid the opportunity for "one stop shopping". Nice scan of the Hulk being turned into a Thor smashing weapon by one of Team 1's members by the way. If past is prologue, then this feat can be duplicated here, severely hindering the Hulk's All-Star teammates and giving them a brand new hazard to (hopefully) overcome.