@juiceboks: so two people capable of tagging him and a higher tier fighter on their team has absolutely no chance? Wolverine has hurt people way out of his league too..
@jmarshmallow: doors are only allowed in some rounds tho..
@juiceboks: their speed and weaponry. Grifter is peak human and he's had a full on fight with Midnighter. Deathstroke Wolverine and Black Manta fought powerhouses and have been victorious before, not to mention they've fought faster.
How about the Daemonites? I know they're alien, but what's their strength/speed output?
@jmarshmallow: I don't find Midnighter unstoppable. He's cool and all but boy is he hyped. I have yet to see any reasoning besides one word popularity answers.
I've never once seen any scan for Midnighter besides "I can calculate every blah blah blah" which shouldn't make him any more than Deathstroke let alone this entire team.
@jmarshmallow You must not frequent that many MN threads..because people post feats for him fairly often. Anyway..so you can get an idea of what he can do..
-Busts the eardrums of Apollo..same Superman-lite character that has plowed through a space station the size of a continent and tanked the equivalent of 10 Fat Man nukes in his head.
-Drawn blood from Sebastian with one kick, a Kheran warlord that trained Mr. Majestic and has beat down Apollo.
-Goes h2h and K.Oes Jack Hawksmoor..a meta who's strong enough to shotput semi-trucks and tank hits from 100 tonners. I'd like to add that while Midnighter was holding back, Jack was pissed off.
Midnighter if he wanted to could one or twoshot all of these characters..and his battle computer would let him know exactly how to do it.
-Here he uses it to own Blademaster..who is renowned as one of if not the best blade fighter in the WS universe.
@iragexcudder: I don't recall him knocking J'onn out...just exploiting an "evolutionary weakness" and making his nose bleed with a punch before getting owned.
@juiceboks: Okay, so he has strength! That would put him at the, what, Class 10ish range? Definitely no more than 10 tons. Or are you saying he's above that?
Because really, I don't see how any of those feats would suggest anything above Class 10.
The Apollo feat is legit, but even a low Superman character should get their eardrum burst by a 10 ton force.
Drawing blood from an opponent is hardly an indication of how strong they are, otherwise Batman on Venom would be one of the strongest characters in the DCU.
Actually, regular Batman would be even stronger!
You get the point. The presence of blood after an attack is merely an artist's creative license coming into play, and should hardly be used to gauge a character's strength level. If anything, the only thing that matters about a blow is if Midnighter's hit was actually able to severely hurt Sebastian.
As for the Hawksmoor feat, it looked more like a showing of Midnighter's ability to accurately predict when Hawksmoor's weight was properly shifted so that he could use his momentum against him. Or maybe I'm reading it wrong, but that's what it looks like.
And I know that Midnighter's battle computer thing is basically a no-limits fallacy that allows him to analyze an opponent's every weakness, but let's not forget that Deathstroke has his own tactical mind with his whole "ninety percent of his brain" thing.
We're talking about a bonafide Team buster, who's mind has allowed him to outmaneuver, out-think, and even overpower Justice League level beings.
I just think that with Deathstroke's Brain, Wolverine's Brawn, and Manta's Tech, they should at least stand a chance when he doesn't have his Doors.
Like, how does Midnighter plan on one or two-shotting a dude who can regen from hits from Hulk and other such powerhouses, or a dude who's armor regularly allows him to tank hits from Aquaman?
Even if Midnighter wins, I don't see it being as cut and dry as you're making it out to be. At least not based on those feats.
@jmarshmallow: That feat with spectre has been debunked before. As for superman that would be PIS. If you want to learn more about midnighter I recommend reading through this thread:
@jmarshmallow: That feat with spectre has been debunked before. As for superman that would be PIS. If you want to learn more about midnighter I recommend reading through this thread:
Thanks for the link! But just so ya know I only brought up the Spectre kick and Superman punch to make a point.
Drawing blood from the opponent shouldn't be considered a strength feat because it's just artistic license. Of course Batman shouldn't be strong enough to draw blood from Spectre. However, the debunk (if you're referring to Saren's) still doesn't explain why Batman was able to draw blood if that's a legit indication of strength. Even though the Spectre allowed Batman to kick him, his durability shouldn't have been any less in tact. So there's no reason why an Almighty Batkick would do any damage unless, and this was my original point, Drawing Blood isn't a strength feat.
If it was, then I could provide tons of feats that would put Batman at a powerhouse level, which we obviously know he isn't at.
So Batman on Venom drawing blood from Supes isn't really PIS, because it isn't a strength feat in the first place.
It doesn't matter if you draw blood, it only matters if you're attack phases the other person in a severe kinda way.
Midnighter's striking ability isn't just about what strength level you want to guess he's at. He knows how and where to strike with the strength he has to get the effect he wants. He doesn't need to be stronger than a character to break them down physically. When he takes it to Hawksmoor he's doing more than just using his momentum against him. He makes a blow to the back of his head and knees him in the chest between the images that were posted above. That's actually their second fight and in the first they exchange solid blows to each others heads before the fight is interrupted. Despite not have strength anywhere near Jack's 100+ tons or his incredible durability, Midnighter is able to fight him fairly well in h2h. And that's because he can make the strength he does have count. It's easier to accept if you see Midnighter like Karnak or Karate Kid.
Wolverine's brawn isn't much to write home about when you consider that Mr. X, who was human and didn't have move prediction anywhere near the level Midnighter is working at, was able to school Wolverine without much trouble. Add in Midnighter being able to hit well enough to drop Hawksmoor, Maul, Sebastian, and others, and Midnighter should be able to handle him. As for Deathstroke being a teambuster that can take down Justice League level beings, even pretending he's beating up Superman-level characters with any regularity and not just picking on children most of the time, Midnighter does the same. In the fight shown where he takes on Apollo, he's also taking on the rest of The Authority, and he's doing it easily. This is the guy who only starts to feel mental strain when he's working on fighting literally a million enemies at once. He's the sort of guy who jumps a couple dozen superhumans at once and runs that fight so well that he can maneuver every one of them into standing exactly where he wants so they can be blasted away by precision lasers from space. A character that will fight dozens of enemies at once and take pride in a rip in his coat being the closest they ever got to touching him. Midnighter's no stranger to fighting groups.
You're right about blood splatter not being the final word on a strikes effectiveness, but when you have something like the instance with Apollo, where the blood goes right along with a direct comment about damage being done to the area where the blood is coming from, it's more than just random splatter for effect.
The difference between Midnighter punching powerhouses about, and Batman doing it, is that it's been established that doing so is the norm for Midnighter with nothing being there to contradict it, whereas when Batman draws blood from the Spectre it's quite obviously an outlier, given that he's done less damage to street levellers with his blows.
The difference between Midnighters battle computer and Deathstroke's enhanced mentality... shouldn't really need explaining.
@xiix: My understanding is that it was both. I haven't read sarens blog in a while, but I recall mention when the host restrains himself he can restrain his power or something. I could be wrong I guess.
@jmarshmallow I get your point and I don't entirely disagree (I think there is some consistency in mindighter doing it though, but as I said its easier if you just read the link if you want to understand midnighter and why its different in his case). I was just correcting you on some context things.
Normally yes its impossible to turn off your physical durability but the spectre is an abstract and not a physical being so thats not really the same scenario. Plus he is a high end reality warper so the spectre is capable of many things regular characters like say superman or thor are not.
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