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#701 Posted by bornstar (1608 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman

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#702 Posted by BlueComet (1081 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman

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#703 Posted by ShadowHuntR (766 posts) - - Show Bio

@Meat_Spinner said:

In a very loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong and tediousSLUGFEST Juggernaut manages to come on top due to a couple of reasons:

  • -Juggernaut is impervious to physical damage. Superman is not. He gets Hurt and BLEEDS from DD's and Grundy's attacks.
  • -The only means of putting Cain down are 1) - XTREMEMAGIC! 2) - Mental Attacks 3) - BFR's (which are not allowed) and Wet Cement.
  • -Juggs has unlimited stamina. Superman doesn't. Yes, it takes a long time for him to fatigue but still he would eventually tire and exhaust

As it is, it would make for a boring fight, but Supes just can't harm Juggs with his fists. or heat vision. or freeze breath. or blitz punches. Actually, anything The Big S could throw at him would prove to be ineffective and don't forget that a fully powered Juggernaut is Physically Unstoppable.

Your arguments are false and bad.

1 : If Juggernaut is impervious to physical damage, why was he knocked out by Hulk in the past? A being with less strenght then Superman?

And I don't recall Juggernaut ever fighting someone as strong as Superman. The guy is strong enough to move planets and his strenght was so great that during his fight against his Golden Age version, their punches were shattering the boundaries of space and time. You assume Juggernaut is invincible because it was written that he is immune to physical damage. Superman was stated to be immortal and being above Death. I even have the scans of him beating Death and Death stating that Superman can't die. It doesn't mean it's true. As long as Juggernaut didn't fight someone with Superman's strenght, you cannot use the supposed immunity of Juggernaut.

2 : You do not know how Superman's freeze breath would affect Juggernaut. It was powerful enough to freeze Darkseid and Bizarro. Same thing for his Heat Vision able to destroy a Sun Eater.

3 : As long as Superman has the Sun, he will have unlimited Stamina. Juggernaut won't be able to prevent him from going in Space to recharge, will he? And Superman is able to go so fast that he can phase throught Juggernaut's attack like he did to Doomsday (learned that from the Flash).

4 : He gets hurts and bleeds from Doomsday and Grundy? Of course! Doomsday and Grundy are above Juggernaut in strenght. And not being knocked out by them is already a good feat.

So just so you know, there is tons of Superman comics on the market. You should read them and come back once you know a little more about him.

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#704 Posted by dondave (41479 posts) - - Show Bio

Should be Juggernaut but wil probably end with Supermna winning

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#705 Posted by Stronger (5051 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman but with much difficulty.

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#706 Posted by Jayfournines (4160 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman ftw, Juggernaut won't be able to lay a finger on him

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#707 Posted by kryptonianpride (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut hasn't the reaction speed to deal with someone like that. I mean, come on. Have any of you actually read an Xmen comic in your lives? Hulk still managed to beat compare, Superman would buttrape Juggernaut 1v1

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#708 Posted by God_Spawn (40802 posts) - - Show Bio

@P0rtal: Watch the insults and don't throw around the term rape like that please.

Moderator
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#709 Posted by asIsuspected (566 posts) - - Show Bio

@Meat_Spinner said:

In a very loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong and tediousSLUGFEST Juggernaut manages to come on top due to a couple of reasons:

  • -Juggernaut is impervious to physical damage. Superman is not. He gets Hurt and BLEEDS from DD's and Grundy's attacks.
  • -The only means of putting Cain down are 1) - XTREMEMAGIC! 2) - Mental Attacks 3) - BFR's (which are not allowed) and Wet Cement.
  • -Juggs has unlimited stamina. Superman doesn't. Yes, it takes a long time for him to fatigue but still he would eventually tire and exhaust

As it is, it would make for a boring fight, but Supes just can't harm Juggs with his fists. or heat vision. or freeze breath. or blitz punches. Actually, anything The Big S could throw at him would prove to be ineffective and don't forget that a fully powered Juggernaut is Physically Unstoppable.

hmm.. sounds reasonable

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#710 Posted by ComicStooge (21916 posts) - - Show Bio

Wasn't Juggy's head beaten in by Hyperion?

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#711 Posted by bornstar (1608 posts) - - Show Bio

@geraldthesloth said:

Superman lures Juggernaut into a pit of wet cement.
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#712 Posted by CalebHara (2421 posts) - - Show Bio

Supes after a long exhausting fight

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#713 Posted by ComocYahweh (667 posts) - - Show Bio

It wont be a fight at all, superman is way to fast.

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#714 Posted by logy5000 (6842 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman

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#715 Posted by logy5000 (6842 posts) - - Show Bio

@They Killed Cap! said:

This happened in the Amalgam crossover story line right as the two worlds started merging. Sups owned him. He also had a sweet one liner "I don't know who you are, or where you came from, but you don't belong here."

Superman had a mullet then, so lets petend it never happened.

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#716 Posted by Franchise1590 (304 posts) - - Show Bio

All I've learned from this thread is that Juggernaut is a stupid character.

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#717 Posted by slimj87d (13135 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000 said:

@They Killed Cap! said:

This happened in the Amalgam crossover story line right as the two worlds started merging. Sups owned him. He also had a sweet one liner "I don't know who you are, or where you came from, but you don't belong here."

Superman had a mullet then, so lets petend it never happened.

that sounds more like a run on sentence to me then a one liner =p

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#718 Posted by DaDivineKing (43285 posts) - - Show Bio

Clark

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#719 Posted by jobbernos (1522 posts) - - Show Bio

superman.

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#720 Posted by pander1 (125 posts) - - Show Bio

@daak1212: Oh yes, no one has ever stopped Juggernaut.

Except for Juggernaut.

And Captain Universe

And Hulk.

And Onslaught.

And Thor.

Wow.

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#721 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3948 posts) - - Show Bio

Per OP = NO BFR!   

 
So if you stuck both of these guys in a magically reinforced adamantium cage, Superman would eventually exert himself and Juggernaut would win.
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#722 Posted by zr0c00l (2468 posts) - - Show Bio

i say supermans more than fast and stron enough to find ways to win this one. if juggs not moving he can be hurt. if hes in the air he can be hurt. supes could tornado run around him get him im the air then kick the crap outta him. juggs cant touch him.

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#723 Edited by andrewmac52 (6 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggs is still impervious to physical damage while not in motion, his force field willabsorb any physical impact.

Throwing him into the sun wouldnt kill him. He isnt damaged by heat, enchanted or magical heat/fire can hurt him, but not ill him. He once had been burned until nothing but a skeleton was left, and stil continued fighting.

The only times juggs has been physically damaged is if cyttorak has restricted his powers, or magic was used. Like in all those thor scans.Thor previouslt used a spell to take away the shield, and his immunity to physical damage.

Superman is strong, but not strong enough to punch his way throifh cyttorak's magic Cyttorak is one of the most powerful beings in marvel, Strange is even scared of him. Strange actually thought it easoer to plead to cyttorak, than attempt to fight juggs.

Juggs doesnt need to sleep, eat, drink , breathe etc. He is fully sustained by cyttoraks magic. Once in motion he laso doesnt need the ground, je has been shown to walk on the air. He can also be teleported back to battle if he wants to. Cyttorak will give juggs as much power as he wants as long as cytt is pkeased with him. Cyttorak has been statex to have almost unlimited power.

Supes just doesnt have the means plain and simple. Theres nothing wrong ith it, just a bad matchup for his powers, he doesnt havethe magic or telepathy needed to win here, and he's not gonna go beat Cyttork into submission. You could sat stalemate, but as I see it supes still needs to eat, and can get tired, where as juggs doesnt need to. So if juggs cant hit him, though he could when supes momentum was stopped by the forcefield, suped would die of hunger or exhaustion, if he leaves to ear, or recoup I would count that as fleeing.

Also, as for comparing their showings,

1. Context needs to betaken into consideration, not just saying Thor damaged him.

2. It's not really a fair comparison in the first place. Juggs is a villain, and not well liked to boot. Do you honestly think that they're going to let him beat guys like the Hulk, or Thor on a regular basis? He gets the short end a lot because of the nature of what he is, a villain that's not well liked. So showings where he beats popular heroes will be few and far between, just because that's hot it is. Supes on the other hand, is the hero of all heros, and the ultimate good guy. How often do you really think that they'll allow him to lost to anyone, let alone a villan.supes isn't very consistent with his powers, because he's written to be as strong as he needs to be for almost any situation.

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#724 Posted by DaAwesome2 (277 posts) - - Show Bio

I got Supes. I don't recall Juggernaut defeating anyone as physically strong as him. And Superman can take any punishment Cain can give. Assuming new 52 Superman can survive a supernova like pre 52 then Juggernaut has no chance.

I've never seen him demonstrate that much power.

The coming back form being reduced to a skeleton isn't impressive as that whole battle took place in his mind if I'm not mistaken. This was the fight between him and Cytorrak in the 8th Day Arc, right? Did he get reduced to just bones in the physical world at any point? Meaning the "real" 616 world. Not some dream dimension or astral plane or what not.

I know people will mention him stalemating WWH. But we can look at that a few ways. This same Hulk couldn't even one shot Wolverine. No one here thinks Superman wouldn't one shot Wolverine. So while this isn't a stomp, Supes should still take this. Supes vulnerability to magic is Jugs only advantage here.

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#725 Posted by Mortium (697 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman loses ONLY due to magic weakness... Juggernaut's attacks will have more effect on Clark than most people, while Superman will do less. Supes main bet is to remove Juggernaut's helmet, I belive that he has been beaten that way before by weaker characters.

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#726 Edited by andrewmac52 (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@daawesome2: o, It was not in a fight with Cyttorak it was with D'Spayre, several scans have been posted already.It was not a dream. Also he completely regenerated within seconds.

Again context is needed, WWh was powered up by celestial tech, and Juggs didn't have his force field up. Hulk didn't even damage Juggs in that fight.

Superman is not strong enough to take everything Cain can give, especially since supes cant do anything that will hurt him, andhe'll get tired eventually where as cain will not.

By saying Juggs isn't strong enough to hurt super, you're saying Cyttorak can't give him enough power to do so,which is totally false. If Cain wanted to kill supes, that would please Cyttorak, thus causing him to give him the required power.

Also as I said before Juggs isn't going to be given very many wins by nature of his character, not because he doesn't have the power to do so. Juggs hasn't been killed or defeated by brute force alone, and like I said superman doesn't have the magic or telepathy to expliot his weaknesses.

The only way Juggs loses is if cyttorak wills it,which I don't see happening. I think Cyttorak would love to see the man of steel beaten to death.

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#727 Edited by andrewmac52 (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@mortium: The helmet wont do anything for supes, his helmet is only there to block mental attacks, not physical. Supes wouldn't be able to overcome the force field, but even if he could, Juggs healing factor, and durability could handle it. Not only that, he can summon the helmet with a thought.

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#728 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (14854 posts) - - Show Bio

So, how is Cain even going to even see Kal?

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#729 Edited by andrewmac52 (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: When Kal tries to fly up to hit him, or speed blitz him, or the first punchwhen it'sstoppeddead, and Juggs Forcefield takes all of his momentum. Thus stopping him, and giving Juggs a clean shot at him. That also doesn't change the fact that supes literally can't do anything to hurt him, and like I said, eventually supes will get tired, and eventually die form exhaustion, or flee because of it. Juggs wont. Also Juggs has been shown to be able to use magic for tracking before.

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#730 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (14854 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: When Kal tries to fly up to hit him, or speed blitz him, or the first punchwhen it'sstoppeddead, and Juggs Forcefield takes all of his momentum. Thus stopping him, and giving Juggs a clean shot at him. That also doesn't change the fact that supes literally can't do anything to hurt him, and like I said, eventually supes will get tired, and eventually die form exhaustion, or flee because of it. Juggs wont.

............ None of this has stopped Juggernaut from getting drowned in cement .... he's too slow to hit Superman.

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#731 Posted by andrewmac52 (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: He wasn't drowned, he doesn't need to breathe. Also he can teleport, so that will stop it. uped gets hit by slower foes all the time, and how is supes too fast if he's not moving? Cause that's what will happen once he's hit that force field, plus magical tracking will help, or just a well timed blow. Speed doesn't trump durability if you literally can't hurt the guy.

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#732 Posted by Mortium (697 posts) - - Show Bio

@andrewmac52:Sorry I forgot that it was the arm bands that were magical, not the helmet.

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#733 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (14854 posts) - - Show Bio

@andrewmac52: Since Superman isn't an idiot, he won't stick around once he figures out his momentum being sapped away, he'll keep his distance, and what slower enemies does Superman get hit by that he isn't trying to actually beat? Grundy? He tags Jay Garrick the first flash, dont count. Mongul? he's been fast since he was created. Doomsday? He's been around since forever and adapted to speed and is as fast as Superman .... who else? IDK, but when Cain gains super speed, let me know, cus he's not gonna tag someone who moves faster than thought.

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#734 Edited by DaAwesome2 (277 posts) - - Show Bio

@daawesome2: o, It was not in a fight with Cyttorak it was with D'Spayre, several scans have been posted already.It was not a dream. Also he completely regenerated within seconds.

Again context is needed, WWh was powered up by celestial tech, and Juggs didn't have his force field up. Hulk didn't even damage Juggs in that fight.

Superman is not strong enough to take everything Cain can give, especially since supes cant do anything that will hurt him, andhe'll get tired eventually where as cain will not.

By saying Juggs isn't strong enough to hurt super, you're saying Cyttorak can't give him enough power to do so,which is totally false. If Cain wanted to kill supes, that would please Cyttorak, thus causing him to give him the required power.

Also as I said before Juggs isn't going to be given very many wins by nature of his character, not because he doesn't have the power to do so. Juggs hasn't been killed or defeated by brute force alone, and like I said superman doesn't have the magic or telepathy to expliot his weaknesses.

The only way Juggs loses is if cyttorak wills it,which I don't see happening. I think Cyttorak would love to see the man of steel beaten to death.

Wait..WWH had Celestial tech? I know War Hulk who Apocalypse augmented had the tech but I didn't think WWH had it. If we talkin' about Horsemen Hulk, Jugs wasn't on the w Isn't D'Spray one of Nightmare's subordinates? He is a demon that inhabits people's dreams, right? I could be mistaken as I vaguely remember him. I know he battled Spiderman in Marvel Team Up or somethin'.

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#735 Posted by andrewmac52 (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: Supes will still get hit a couple times because of it though, and Juggs isn't likely to just swing at him, he'll grab him to get a few punches in. Also Supes can't surpass light speed within the atmosphere, so juggs will be able to see him, it's not like Juggs is slow either, he does have superhuman speed. Also even if Supes could hit his top speed while in atmosphere, he can't fight at that speed, it's straight line speed. It doesn't change the fact that Supes can't do anything to harm Juggs. Even if Supes can move to fast for Juggs to hit him while in atmosphere, he can't do that forever, he will eventually start to fatigue, which means he'll start to slow down, meaning Juggs can hit him, and since Supes is fatigued, the blows will hurt more. Or he will have to fee to recoup.Once again, being faster, but able to fatigue is meaningless, when the guy your fighting can't be harmed by you, and doesn't need to eat, sleep, get tired, or age. So even if Suped could out run Juggs indefinitely, he will age, Juggs wont.

Cyttorak can easily grant Juggs the power to defeat Supes, and if he allows Juggs to use his magical tracking spell supes speed becomes moot. The fight comes down to Cyttorak completely, if he wants Juggs to win, Juggs will win, if not, Supes loses in time, as Juggs is completely sustained by magic, where as supes will slow eventually. Supes doen't have the means to win here. Unless he can find a way to the crimson cosmos, and kill cyttorak, or has the aid of magic or telepathy. He's no where close to strong enough to stand to cyttorak, and doesn't have the powers or acess to outside help here.

@DaAwesome2 Sorry, you're right it was War Hulk with celestial, I always mix their names up.

D'spyre isn't an invader of dreams, and that fight ws real. He relise on psychic sustenance in the form of fear, but his telepathic abilities allow him to figure out ones fear, and project illusions into ones mind, so maybe that's what you're thinking of? He was also amped by Cyttorak there as well I believe, he was powerful to manipulate the fabrics of the universe. He is a follower of nightmare, Juggs has bested nightmare I believe

Also a bit of a side note, but does anyone know the comic where cyttorak easily dismantles 1/5 phoenix force being used by colossus, and he states 1/5th phoenix force isn't even close to what's needed to stand do cyttorak? It's in Cyttorak's bio that it happened, but I haven't heard it before that.

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#736 Edited by AlteredBeast (157 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut one shots Superman.

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#737 Posted by dondave (41479 posts) - - Show Bio

Stalemate, Juggs can't hit Supes and Superman can't knock him out

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#738 Posted by Joygirl (21033 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't Juggernaut magical/mystical in nature? Doesn't Juggernaut have a force field and momentum-steal strong enough to stop Mjolnir dead in its tracks? Can't Juggernaut teleport between dimensions when he wants to? Didn't Juggernaut fully regenerate from a skeleton?

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#739 Posted by Dredeuced (6435 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

Isn't Juggernaut magical/mystical in nature? Doesn't Juggernaut have a force field and momentum-steal strong enough to stop Mjolnir dead in its tracks? Can't Juggernaut teleport between dimensions when he wants to? Didn't Juggernaut fully regenerate from a skeleton?

Isn't that only classic Juggernaut? He hasn't used this power in like 30 years and it got pseudo retconned as him being more evil so Cyttorak gave him more powers or whatever, I don't think current Juggs has the forcefield anymore and the OP didn't say classic.

That said, even at normal power Juggs is basically immune to physical damage (atleast, non cosmic physical damage, someone with the power gem might manage it) so yeah this is a stalemate unless Clark can go get some time to study up on dispel magic, lol.

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#740 Posted by SpectresWrath01 (229 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

Isn't Juggernaut magical/mystical in nature? Doesn't Juggernaut have a force field and momentum-steal strong enough to stop Mjolnir dead in its tracks? Can't Juggernaut teleport between dimensions when he wants to? Didn't Juggernaut fully regenerate from a skeleton?

Isn't that only classic Juggernaut? He hasn't used this power in like 30 years and it got pseudo retconned as him being more evil so Cyttorak gave him more powers or whatever, I don't think current Juggs has the forcefield anymore and the OP didn't say classic.

That said, even at normal power Juggs is basically immune to physical damage (atleast, non cosmic physical damage, someone with the power gem might manage it) so yeah this is a stalemate unless Clark can go get some time to study up on dispel magic, lol.

This is a tuffy?!

Juggernaut with momentum can toss around even some of the most powerful heroes in the Marvel U. While Superman outclasses him in every catagory in terms of Speed, Strength, Power, ect.....but unable to BFR him that makes this fight alittle bit more interesting. Basically who would win in a slug fest? Lets see Invulnerability is pretty much a tie. Reason why is Supermans power or damage output is far more impressive than Juggernauts so Superman can slow him down by Brute Strength strength and by the force of his impacts. However, this wont stop juggernaut from attacking.

Normally Superman can win this fight fairly simple by BFRing Juggernaut. But taking away Supermans ability to one shot him into space or Speed blizt him, makes this pretty much a slug fight for Superman or does it? Juggernaut on the other hand lacks the power and strength needed to beat down Superman before the yellow sun light heals his every wound. We see this often when Superman faces another powerhouse like Grundy or anybody that goes toe to toe with Superman in a brawling match.

Now who would win? Answer while complicated is still easy to figure out. Superman of course. Two reasons why Superman would win this- 1 Juggernaut while not being BFR or out right beat into submission which we all know would not happen reguardless of the massive strength between these two would still lose by Supermans heat vision. Superman can use his heat vision to Lobotomized Juggernaut without removing him from the field. All Superman has to do is remove his helmet. 2. Outsmart Juggernaut. Let Juggernaut defeat himself by luring him into a field removal without Superman having to do it himself.

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#741 Edited by GodTriggerHulk (2084 posts) - - Show Bio

Worse comes to worse Superman can use heat vision lobotomy.

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#742 Posted by HellionVulcan (5296 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde said:

I figured the battlefield was Earth? Therefore it's not BFR, only incapacitation.

Skaar dumped him in lava did nothing Juggernaut can not be harmed by the likes of superman .

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#743 Edited by HellionVulcan (5296 posts) - - Show Bio

@spectreswrath01 said:

@dredeuced said:

@joygirl said:

Isn't Juggernaut magical/mystical in nature? Doesn't Juggernaut have a force field and momentum-steal strong enough to stop Mjolnir dead in its tracks? Can't Juggernaut teleport between dimensions when he wants to? Didn't Juggernaut fully regenerate from a skeleton?

Isn't that only classic Juggernaut? He hasn't used this power in like 30 years and it got pseudo retconned as him being more evil so Cyttorak gave him more powers or whatever, I don't think current Juggs has the forcefield anymore and the OP didn't say classic.

That said, even at normal power Juggs is basically immune to physical damage (atleast, non cosmic physical damage, someone with the power gem might manage it) so yeah this is a stalemate unless Clark can go get some time to study up on dispel magic, lol.

This is a tuffy?!

Juggernaut with momentum can toss around even some of the most powerful heroes in the Marvel U. While Superman outclasses him in every catagory in terms of Speed, Strength, Power, ect.....but unable to BFR him that makes this fight alittle bit more interesting. Basically who would win in a slug fest? Lets see Invulnerability is pretty much a tie. Reason why is Supermans power or damage output is far more impressive than Juggernauts so Superman can slow him down by Brute Strength strength and by the force of his impacts. However, this wont stop juggernaut from attacking.

Normally Superman can win this fight fairly simple by BFRing Juggernaut. But taking away Supermans ability to one shot him into space or Speed blizt him, makes this pretty much a slug fight for Superman or does it? Juggernaut on the other hand lacks the power and strength needed to beat down Superman before the yellow sun light heals his every wound. We see this often when Superman faces another powerhouse like Grundy or anybody that goes toe to toe with Superman in a brawling match.

Now who would win? Answer while complicated is still easy to figure out. Superman of course. Two reasons why Superman would win this- 1 Juggernaut while not being BFR or out right beat into submission which we all know would not happen reguardless of the massive strength between these two would still lose by Supermans heat vision. Superman can use his heat vision to Lobotomized Juggernaut without removing him from the field. All Superman has to do is remove his helmet. 2. Outsmart Juggernaut. Let Juggernaut defeat himself by luring him into a field removal without Superman having to do it himself.

Juggernaut isn't lacking in terms of power & strength to superman as everything superman could lift so could juggernaut his power allows him to do that & more with little effort but superman speed is his saving grace .The fight is taking place in the Amalgam universe so is it that universe juggernaut which is Doomsday combined with juggernaut ? as op never says which Juggernaut or superman version as we can't use current since theres no Juggernaut .Superman's optic blast would do nothing as Juggernaut has been a skeleton so no optic blast would lobotomize juggs here but since no bfr kinda puts superman in a lose/lose situation cause if Juggernaut go's 8th day or trion sups is in more trouble lol .

copy/paste an old post

Juggernauts Punches in Hulk #602 were massive on the Richter magnitude scale

i think Juggernaut at full strength is well should be a planet buster .

Juggernaut punches on the Richter magnitude scale
Juggernaut punches on the Richter magnitude scale

Richter magnitude 8 is equal to approximatly 1 gigaton (a billion tons)of TNT Seismic Energy Yield as Hank didn't mean 4.8 Richter magnitude scale will not do that at all plus the description of an 4.8 is Noticeable shaking of indoor items, rattling noises. Significant damage unlikely, yet juggernauts punches ripped the ground apart fairly easy .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richter_magnitude_scale

also In amazing spider-man between #627 to #629 when it shows how Juggernaut escaped after falling down from the cement into the tectonic plates beneath New York City just moving would've taken so much strength due to the force of being that far down .

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#744 Posted by Raw_Material (3539 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm gonna say Superman with this one.

Silver Age Supes to be specific.

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#745 Edited by HellionVulcan (5296 posts) - - Show Bio

@shadowhuntr said:

@Meat_Spinner said:

In a very loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong and tediousSLUGFEST Juggernaut manages to come on top due to a couple of reasons:

  • -Juggernaut is impervious to physical damage. Superman is not. He gets Hurt and BLEEDS from DD's and Grundy's attacks.
  • -The only means of putting Cain down are 1) - XTREMEMAGIC! 2) - Mental Attacks 3) - BFR's (which are not allowed) and Wet Cement.
  • -Juggs has unlimited stamina. Superman doesn't. Yes, it takes a long time for him to fatigue but still he would eventually tire and exhaust

As it is, it would make for a boring fight, but Supes just can't harm Juggs with his fists. or heat vision. or freeze breath. or blitz punches. Actually, anything The Big S could throw at him would prove to be ineffective and don't forget that a fully powered Juggernaut is Physically Unstoppable.

Your arguments are false and bad.

1 : If Juggernaut is impervious to physical damage, why was he knocked out by Hulk in the past? A being with less strenght then Superman?

And I don't recall Juggernaut ever fighting someone as strong as Superman. The guy is strong enough to move planets and his strenght was so great that during his fight against his Golden Age version, their punches were shattering the boundaries of space and time. You assume Juggernaut is invincible because it was written that he is immune to physical damage. Superman was stated to be immortal and being above Death. I even have the scans of him beating Death and Death stating that Superman can't die. It doesn't mean it's true. As long as Juggernaut didn't fight someone with Superman's strenght, you cannot use the supposed immunity of Juggernaut.

2 : You do not know how Superman's freeze breath would affect Juggernaut. It was powerful enough to freeze Darkseid and Bizarro. Same thing for his Heat Vision able to destroy a Sun Eater.

3 : As long as Superman has the Sun, he will have unlimited Stamina. Juggernaut won't be able to prevent him from going in Space to recharge, will he? And Superman is able to go so fast that he can phase throught Juggernaut's attack like he did to Doomsday (learned that from the Flash).

4 : He gets hurts and bleeds from Doomsday and Grundy? Of course! Doomsday and Grundy are above Juggernaut in strenght. And not being knocked out by them is already a good feat.

So just so you know, there is tons of Superman comics on the market. You should read them and come back once you know a little more about him.

Sorry to say this but strength & punching power are two different things plus neither Doomsday/Grundy can be amped to a level Juggernaut can plus neither have Juggernauts power set .

1 Is relevant since each character has never fought someone with their power set .

2 Do Darkseid & Bizarro have momentum power & a shield that would make freeze breath useless ? .

3 If superman leaves the battle ground isn't that a loss as if superman can super charge in the sun can't Juggernaut go trion level ? & one punch superman through dimension's like nothing ? .

4 Prove they're above Juggernaut strength level as Juggernaut has never had a limit shown or other wise plus Juggernauts punching level go's far into the gigaton range as shown by the scan i showed ,so Juggernauts punch's might be far more deadly than Doomsday & Grundy's combined which should harm superman as he is also a magical being a weakness for superman .

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#746 Edited by alcoholbob (1311 posts) - - Show Bio

Only way Superman wins is via the hearts of Comicviners like such:

@captain_clown said:

Superman stomps, due to the fact that I like Superman way better and am willing to ignore logic for the purposes of this debate.

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#747 Posted by SpectresWrath01 (229 posts) - - Show Bio

@spectreswrath01 said:

@dredeuced said:

@joygirl said:

Isn't Juggernaut magical/mystical in nature? Doesn't Juggernaut have a force field and momentum-steal strong enough to stop Mjolnir dead in its tracks? Can't Juggernaut teleport between dimensions when he wants to? Didn't Juggernaut fully regenerate from a skeleton?

Isn't that only classic Juggernaut? He hasn't used this power in like 30 years and it got pseudo retconned as him being more evil so Cyttorak gave him more powers or whatever, I don't think current Juggs has the forcefield anymore and the OP didn't say classic.

That said, even at normal power Juggs is basically immune to physical damage (atleast, non cosmic physical damage, someone with the power gem might manage it) so yeah this is a stalemate unless Clark can go get some time to study up on dispel magic, lol.

This is a tuffy?!

Juggernaut with momentum can toss around even some of the most powerful heroes in the Marvel U. While Superman outclasses him in every catagory in terms of Speed, Strength, Power, ect.....but unable to BFR him that makes this fight alittle bit more interesting. Basically who would win in a slug fest? Lets see Invulnerability is pretty much a tie. Reason why is Supermans power or damage output is far more impressive than Juggernauts so Superman can slow him down by Brute Strength strength and by the force of his impacts. However, this wont stop juggernaut from attacking.

Normally Superman can win this fight fairly simple by BFRing Juggernaut. But taking away Supermans ability to one shot him into space or Speed blizt him, makes this pretty much a slug fight for Superman or does it? Juggernaut on the other hand lacks the power and strength needed to beat down Superman before the yellow sun light heals his every wound. We see this often when Superman faces another powerhouse like Grundy or anybody that goes toe to toe with Superman in a brawling match.

Now who would win? Answer while complicated is still easy to figure out. Superman of course. Two reasons why Superman would win this- 1 Juggernaut while not being BFR or out right beat into submission which we all know would not happen reguardless of the massive strength between these two would still lose by Supermans heat vision. Superman can use his heat vision to Lobotomized Juggernaut without removing him from the field. All Superman has to do is remove his helmet. 2. Outsmart Juggernaut. Let Juggernaut defeat himself by luring him into a field removal without Superman having to do it himself.

Juggernaut isn't lacking in terms of power & strength to superman as everything superman could lift so could juggernaut his power allows him to do that & more with little effort but superman speed is his saving grace .The fight is taking place in the Amalgam universe so is it that universe juggernaut which is Doomsday combined with juggernaut ? as op never says which Juggernaut or superman version as we can't use current since theres no Juggernaut .Superman's optic blast would do nothing as Juggernaut has been a skeleton so no optic blast would lobotomize juggs here but since no bfr kinda puts superman in a lose/lose situation cause if Juggernaut go's 8th day or trion sups is in more trouble lol .

copy/paste an old post

Juggernauts Punches in Hulk #602 were massive on the Richter magnitude scale

i think Juggernaut at full strength is well should be a planet buster .

Juggernaut punches on the Richter magnitude scale
Juggernaut punches on the Richter magnitude scale

Richter magnitude 8 is equal to approximatly 1 gigaton (a billion tons)of TNT Seismic Energy Yield as Hank didn't mean 4.8 Richter magnitude scale will not do that at all plus the description of an 4.8 is Noticeable shaking of indoor items, rattling noises. Significant damage unlikely, yet juggernauts punches ripped the ground apart fairly easy .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richter_magnitude_scale

also In amazing spider-man between #627 to #629 when it shows how Juggernaut escaped after falling down from the cement into the tectonic plates beneath New York City just moving would've taken so much strength due to the force of being that far down .

Well Juggernauts Magic provides him to take endless amounts of damage and not quite. (This should not be mistaken for Strength) The Hulks Strength is limitless and potentially he can be more powerful (in terms of strength alone) than Superman. Now Hulk is well known for his power and can over power Juggernaut Ive seen it. He doesnt defeat Juggernaut because of Juggernauts magic of Invulnerability and his strength is up there but not on par with the Hulks Im sorry but if you try to argue that Juggernaut is stronger than Hulk Ill just shut you down right now and provide physical feats of both in terms of strength alone. Strength is not hitting power BTW big difference. Juggernaut with enough momentum can deal out massive hitting power. I wouldnt say planet buster but he is up there. Thor by far has the BEST hitting power over Superman, Hulk, Silver Surfer, Black Adam, and yes over Juggernaut. For me he is the best in that catagory.

As far as Strength goes Im sorry feats do not lie. Superman has held up the planet for 6 days straight outside of sunlight to refuel his power and it hinted he could lift more. Juggernaut has no feat remotely close to lifting planet size objects in terms of weight. Hitting power a 8 point Richter scale of power while impressive is not as impressive as Supermans hitting power. He can bust planets. Light speed planet bust. Straight up punching half the size of earth meteors in 2. Thats roughly 3.3 sexitillion tons of hitting power. Alot more than 8 billion tons of force.

As far as strength goes Ive covered Hulks potential makes him the strongest in DCU however ive seen feats by Thor that outclass his strength but potentially Hulks strength is much better. You should agree with that. Well in terms of Strength sad to say Superman beats even the Hulk in terms of Strength by feats alone.

I want to get this out in the open first Im NOT a DC fanboy. I do love the Spectre but I have no favorites in the comic world. I like Both Marvel and DC. I feel they both lack what the other provides. Marvel IMO has more action and better short stories. DC I feel has bigger events and they make a big deal about them too. However I almost always hate how it ends up lol. Half the time anyway.

Why Supermans heat vision would work. One Grundy is magic in nature and cant be killed but Superman if he wanted to can labotomize him. Juggernauts only protection is his helmet against mental attacks so his brain is his weak spot! I dont care which Juggernaut you use thats always been a thing with Juggernaut. Its his only weakness. Superman doesnt need to harm the outside of Juggernauts body to labotomize him thats the beauty about it. Invulerability does not help in this case and no magic protection for his brain. Game set match. Superman is the winner.

Even if by some chance and Im giving you a very small benefit of the doubt that Superman cant do that like .0002 percent out of 100. Superman can always use his own mental attacks. While rarely used he is capable and has done it by just willing it to happen.

Also for other ppl out there Magic is a none issue here sense Superman encouters brutes with magic in the DCU all the time. Juggernauts magic attacks are not more powerful than Black Adams, Captain Marvels, Solomon Grundys, ect.

@lunacyde said:

I figured the battlefield was Earth? Therefore it's not BFR, only incapacitation.

Skaar dumped him in lava did nothing Juggernaut can not be harmed by the likes of superman .

Lavas heat is nothing like Supermans heat vision. Supermans heat vision is far more hotter and more powerful. O_O;

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#748 Posted by spiderbuck1 (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut owns Superman under these circumstances.

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#749 Edited by HellionVulcan (5296 posts) - - Show Bio

@hellionvulcan said:

@spectreswrath01 said:

@dredeuced said:

@joygirl said:

Isn't Juggernaut magical/mystical in nature? Doesn't Juggernaut have a force field and momentum-steal strong enough to stop Mjolnir dead in its tracks? Can't Juggernaut teleport between dimensions when he wants to? Didn't Juggernaut fully regenerate from a skeleton?

Isn't that only classic Juggernaut? He hasn't used this power in like 30 years and it got pseudo retconned as him being more evil so Cyttorak gave him more powers or whatever, I don't think current Juggs has the forcefield anymore and the OP didn't say classic.

That said, even at normal power Juggs is basically immune to physical damage (atleast, non cosmic physical damage, someone with the power gem might manage it) so yeah this is a stalemate unless Clark can go get some time to study up on dispel magic, lol.

This is a tuffy?!

Juggernaut with momentum can toss around even some of the most powerful heroes in the Marvel U. While Superman outclasses him in every catagory in terms of Speed, Strength, Power, ect.....but unable to BFR him that makes this fight alittle bit more interesting. Basically who would win in a slug fest? Lets see Invulnerability is pretty much a tie. Reason why is Supermans power or damage output is far more impressive than Juggernauts so Superman can slow him down by Brute Strength strength and by the force of his impacts. However, this wont stop juggernaut from attacking.

Normally Superman can win this fight fairly simple by BFRing Juggernaut. But taking away Supermans ability to one shot him into space or Speed blizt him, makes this pretty much a slug fight for Superman or does it? Juggernaut on the other hand lacks the power and strength needed to beat down Superman before the yellow sun light heals his every wound. We see this often when Superman faces another powerhouse like Grundy or anybody that goes toe to toe with Superman in a brawling match.

Now who would win? Answer while complicated is still easy to figure out. Superman of course. Two reasons why Superman would win this- 1 Juggernaut while not being BFR or out right beat into submission which we all know would not happen reguardless of the massive strength between these two would still lose by Supermans heat vision. Superman can use his heat vision to Lobotomized Juggernaut without removing him from the field. All Superman has to do is remove his helmet. 2. Outsmart Juggernaut. Let Juggernaut defeat himself by luring him into a field removal without Superman having to do it himself.

Juggernaut isn't lacking in terms of power & strength to superman as everything superman could lift so could juggernaut his power allows him to do that & more with little effort but superman speed is his saving grace .The fight is taking place in the Amalgam universe so is it that universe juggernaut which is Doomsday combined with juggernaut ? as op never says which Juggernaut or superman version as we can't use current since theres no Juggernaut .Superman's optic blast would do nothing as Juggernaut has been a skeleton so no optic blast would lobotomize juggs here but since no bfr kinda puts superman in a lose/lose situation cause if Juggernaut go's 8th day or trion sups is in more trouble lol .

copy/paste an old post

Juggernauts Punches in Hulk #602 were massive on the Richter magnitude scale

i think Juggernaut at full strength is well should be a planet buster .

Juggernaut punches on the Richter magnitude scale
Juggernaut punches on the Richter magnitude scale

Richter magnitude 8 is equal to approximatly 1 gigaton (a billion tons)of TNT Seismic Energy Yield as Hank didn't mean 4.8 Richter magnitude scale will not do that at all plus the description of an 4.8 is Noticeable shaking of indoor items, rattling noises. Significant damage unlikely, yet juggernauts punches ripped the ground apart fairly easy .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richter_magnitude_scale

also In amazing spider-man between #627 to #629 when it shows how Juggernaut escaped after falling down from the cement into the tectonic plates beneath New York City just moving would've taken so much strength due to the force of being that far down .

Well Juggernauts Magic provides him to take endless amounts of damage and not quite. (This should not be mistaken for Strength) The Hulks Strength is limitless and potentially he can be more powerful (in terms of strength alone) than Superman. Now Hulk is well known for his power and can over power Juggernaut Ive seen it. He doesnt defeat Juggernaut because of Juggernauts magic of Invulnerability and his strength is up there but not on par with the Hulks Im sorry but if you try to argue that Juggernaut is stronger than Hulk Ill just shut you down right now and provide physical feats of both in terms of strength alone. Strength is not hitting power BTW big difference. Juggernaut with enough momentum can deal out massive hitting power. I wouldnt say planet buster but he is up there. Thor by far has the BEST hitting power over Superman, Hulk, Silver Surfer, Black Adam, and yes over Juggernaut. For me he is the best in that catagory.

As far as Strength goes Im sorry feats do not lie. Superman has held up the planet for 6 days straight outside of sunlight to refuel his power and it hinted he could lift more. Juggernaut has no feat remotely close to lifting planet size objects in terms of weight. Hitting power a 8 point Richter scale of power while impressive is not as impressive as Supermans hitting power. He can bust planets. Light speed planet bust. Straight up punching half the size of earth meteors in 2. Thats roughly 3.3 sexitillion tons of hitting power. Alot more than 8 billion tons of force.

As far as strength goes Ive covered Hulks potential makes him the strongest in DCU however ive seen feats by Thor that outclass his strength but potentially Hulks strength is much better. You should agree with that. Well in terms of Strength sad to say Superman beats even the Hulk in terms of Strength by feats alone.

I want to get this out in the open first Im NOT a DC fanboy. I do love the Spectre but I have no favorites in the comic world. I like Both Marvel and DC. I feel they both lack what the other provides. Marvel IMO has more action and better short stories. DC I feel has bigger events and they make a big deal about them too. However I almost always hate how it ends up lol. Half the time anyway.

Why Supermans heat vision would work. One Grundy is magic in nature and cant be killed but Superman if he wanted to can labotomize him. Juggernauts only protection is his helmet against mental attacks so his brain is his weak spot! I dont care which Juggernaut you use thats always been a thing with Juggernaut. Its his only weakness. Superman doesnt need to harm the outside of Juggernauts body to labotomize him thats the beauty about it. Invulerability does not help in this case and no magic protection for his brain. Game set match. Superman is the winner.

Even if by some chance and Im giving you a very small benefit of the doubt that Superman cant do that like .0002 percent out of 100. Superman can always use his own mental attacks. While rarely used he is capable and has done it by just willing it to happen.

Also for other ppl out there Magic is a none issue here sense Superman encouters brutes with magic in the DCU all the time. Juggernauts magic attacks are not more powerful than Black Adams, Captain Marvels, Solomon Grundys, ect.

@hellionvulcan said:

@lunacyde said:

I figured the battlefield was Earth? Therefore it's not BFR, only incapacitation.

Skaar dumped him in lava did nothing Juggernaut can not be harmed by the likes of superman .

Lavas heat is nothing like Supermans heat vision. Supermans heat vision is far more hotter and more powerful. O_O;

I never said strength equals punching power that was another user who i corrected but thats what i don't get since how would Juggernaut have a limit to his strength as he has an endless amount of power by a god (in away) as Hulk on the other hand should have a limit since u can't get angry forever just stupid writing by marvel .Hulk & Juggernaut aren't alike so u can't compare them as i never said one was stronger than the other but whats more powerful Cyttorak or Hulks gamma ray anger ? i'm going with the guy who owns a dimension .Juggernaut doesn't have to many strength/punch feats because of marvel writers as most times he just walks through everything lol but best punching power in marvel Thor ? i'd say Gladiator just outshines on that also gotta ask when has silver surfer displayed his punching power ? .

I never denied superman's feats but lets be honesty superman is a main character so he'll have alot more feats than Juggernaut ever will but i do believe anything superman can lift so can juggernaut only because Juggernaut has never shown a limit .Superman has good punching power (probably one of the best ever in comics) but if u look at that scan again Juggernauts punches on the Richter scale it went from 4.6 to 8 that is a 3.4 or 2.7 metric tons gain so doing the math another 3.4 gain or more would make juggernauts punches reach over 100 teratons as that is just a guess but it seems right on .Juggernauts punches in that comic split the ground open to lava/magma which is commonly between 1 km and 10 km under the surface .Still i believe Juggernaut would have to work up to superman's punching level but if theres one character that could its Juggernaut .

People on this site & even marvel say Hulks is stronger than Thor but u say differently http://www.comicvine.com/forums/hulk-187/who-s-physically-stronger-hulk-or-thor-1455620/ but i do agree with u about Thor owning Hulk but even Thor has said that Juggernaut is stronger than him ,its comics everything changes so saying who's stronger more powerful is not for discussion .

I don't care either way about fanboys as u seem knowledgeable & not immature so don't worry as i enjoy both comic company's to :) .

I truly don't think superman's heat vision or mental attacks would work since Juggernaut has an insane healing factor as his brain shouldn't be a weak spot or he would've got owned as a skeleton but he did not , i will say its worth a try but i doubt it'd work for long if by the smallest chance it worked superman still has no way of killing Juggernaut as neither really can dispose of the other which would make this a stalemate for eternity lol .

Superman may encounter character's who are magic based but none of them have his magic source empowering them nor do anything of them have Juggernauts durability or any of his other powers as superman doesn't have anything that can harm Juggernaut but unless Juggernaut has his shield so he can take superman's inertia away he aren't killing superman ,so who is more likely to win Juggernaut .

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#750 Edited by DanM (168 posts) - - Show Bio

The most likely scenario without BFR is that this is going to be a very long fight, as the battle rages and Jugs becomes more and more destructive there is a good chance Cyttorak would augment his power as he has done in the past when Jugs has been committed to destruction. This could very well turn into sups facing off against a Jugs similar to his 8th day form, the same one that wasn't the least bit phased by a all out assault by the likes of Thor, including easily tanking several direct hits from mjolnir without as much as blinking. Sups cant hurt Jugs, at all where sups will eventually, perhaps after a very long while, tire and Jugs will land a blow and that will be the beginning of the end.