@jashro44: I thought that once to affter reading Injustice but I don't think that is how the rings work. IIRC a guardian of the universe had to torture Killowog for a long time and could still not get the ring. When they tried to remove it from another lantern there hand blew up
Why can't superman just blitz them both and take there rings away?
Honest question.
I think it just depends on the writer. Logically, the ring's AI should not allow this in a battle situation without it at least kicking in the auto-shields or auto-firing. Also, it's been shown that Lanterns can move and react at superhuman speeds... which presumably means the ring is increasing their reaction times. So, again, logically in a battle situation the ring should automatically increase the wearers reaction speed as soon as a threat is detected.
@jashro44: I thought that once to affter reading Injustice but I don't think that is how the rings work. IIRC a guardian of the universe had to torture Killowog for a long time and could still not get the ring. When they tried to remove it from another lantern there hand blew up
I have seen batman remove Kyles ring before. Also IIRC Deathstroke nearly did it as well in identity crisis (granted that fight did have a lot of PIS...).
Why can't superman just blitz them both and take there rings away?
Honest question.
I think it just depends on the writer. Logically, the ring's AI should not allow this in a battle situation without it at least kicking in the auto-shields or auto-firing.
According to John he had to set the ring to auto fire. In battle I don't see why superman cannot blitz them both before they react.
Also, it's been shown that Lanterns can move and react at superhuman speeds... which presumably means the ring is increasing their reaction times. So, again, logically in a battle situation the ring should automatically increase the wearers reaction speed as soon as a threat is detected.
Do you have any speed feats of post crisis? I have only seen one reaction feat of Hal tagging flash which I was told was pre crisis.
Why can't superman just blitz them both and take there rings away?
Honest question.
I think it just depends on the writer. Logically, the ring's AI should not allow this in a battle situation without it at least kicking in the auto-shields or auto-firing.
According to John he had to set the ring to auto fire. In battle I don't see why superman cannot blitz them both before they react.
The ring has its own AI. Like I said, logically the AI should act just like it does in other situations. For example, it has been shown that if a Lantern is within range when a large explosion goes off (like a supernova), the ring will automatically activate the shields to protect him/her.
@willpayton: All right that I never knew. But does this AI have reaction feats?
I cant say for sure, but at the very least the AI should be able to react at least as fast as the Lanterns can react when amped by it. Probably faster since we are talking about a computer far more advanced than anything on Earth currently.
As far as the reaction times of Lanterns themselves when amped by the ring...
John implies that the ring can tag Superman or Flash if they move above the speed of sound:
Lanterns win cause of provided scans of other people
On a side note:
5/7 Members of the JL can solo the Avengers. I never knew GL's were that badass.
Hal is pretty badass.
Just cause I like this scan... here's one of Hal getting pissed off and speed-blitzing Parallax within inches of his brother's family, even though is ring is at 0.5% power:
Hal and John, Hal alone is a problem for Superman, a bloodlusted one kicked his ass. Superman himself said John was quicker than him on the draw. Both Lantern's have reacted to Flash, Hal reacted to and defeated a bloodlusted Zoom posing as Flash, John reacted to Flash when he was moving so fast he couldn't stop himself. They can both withstand a blitz from Superman based on their reaction feats and their construct feats.
@spiderbuck: It was only a comment on how @dondave tends to write shorter answers despite being a good debater on the battle forums. I'm with him too on this match up as two Lanterns will be more than a match for Superman but I do have issues generalising the capabilities of Lanterns based on the showings of one of them. Still, I don't deny there's plausibility in these assessments and Hal has mentioned in his plans for dealing with a rogue JLA that he could make Superman see kryptonite when none is actually there.
@ancient_0f_days Bit confused with your comment though mate. You say Hal or John alone can either give Superman a very good fight or if they were bloodlusted, beat him. But in the Wonder Woman vs Sinestro article last week, you sided with Diana over Sinestro when Sinestro is arguably more skilled with a ring than Hal or John as he does things Hal didn't know could be done with a ring. How come you hold these two different views mate? Just confused is all.
@lvenger: I actually forgot about Hal using telepathy on Supes, also I did show that Hal has matter manipulation, it's not a stretch for him to make Kryptonite also I'm way too lazy to bother going on depth on anything really, unless it was a CAV or something
I think you heard me clearly. SBP is more powerful than Superman.
I didn't understand what you meant. We actually don't know if that's true since Superman is always holding back, You do know he only uses 25% of his total power there's only been a few occasions where he's stopped holding back plus he isn't always bloodlusted that rarely happens while SBP never holds back and is nearly always bloodlusted. So we can't really say he's more powerful although SBP will eventually be more powerful than Superman because he is just a teenager/young adult and he's already at Superman's level. Unless Superman becomes Superman Prime One Million by sundipping for thousands of years.
@lvenger: I did side with Diana over Sinestro, as much as I'd side with Superman over Hal or John. I didn't say Diana would make a sweeping victory over Sinestro, I think Sinestro would give her hell due to his shields and such...problem is, Sinestro hasn't shown the speed necessary to keep up. Hal and John have shown exceptional reaction speed around Flash, around other GLs and even around Superman...both of them. Not saying they're faster than Superman or even as fast cus they aren't, Superman is obviously faster than them in some aspects but they can keep up. Not to mention the fact that both of them (like Sinestro) have survived planetary and even Sun level explosions, Hal took little damage when he and Flash attempted to contain a solar explosion whereas John was weakened due to the bomb being yellow and the planet he was on went rocketing at the sun and then that blew up on him. They have the speed AND the defense to be formidable against Superman or Wonder Woman, Sinestro lacks reaction feats to incapacitate, immobilize, ko, kill or BFR Wonder Woman or Superman. On their own, they'd put up a fight but lose or win against Superman via BFR. Together, they'd just overwhelm him, in my opinion
@lvenger: I did side with Diana over Sinestro, as much as I'd side with Superman over Hal or John. I didn't say Diana would make a sweeping victory over Sinestro, I think Sinestro would give her hell due to his shields and such...problem is, Sinestro hasn't shown the speed necessary to keep up. Hal and John have shown exceptional reaction speed around Flash, around other GLs and even around Superman...both of them. Not saying they're faster than Superman or even as fast cus they aren't, Superman is obviously faster than them in some aspects but they can keep up. Not to mention the fact that both of them (like Sinestro) have survived planetary and even Sun level explosions, Hal took little damage when he and Flash attempted to contain a solar explosion whereas John was weakened due to the bomb being yellow and the planet he was on went rocketing at the sun and then that blew up on him. They have the speed AND the defense to be formidable against Superman or Wonder Woman, Sinestro lacks reaction feats to incapacitate, immobilize, ko, kill or BFR Wonder Woman or Superman. On their own, they'd put up a fight but lose or win against Superman via BFR. Together, they'd just overwhelm him, in my opinion
Fair enough, I get the full picture now with that kind of analysis. And I agree in this instance.
Current Avengers? Not really. Especially not current Thor.
Especially not current Thor? The guy who's only shown street level combat speed and reaction times? Most of the League can still hand it to him honestly given the speed difference.
I think you heard me clearly. SBP is more powerful than Superman.
I didn't understand what you meant. We actually don't know if that's true since Superman is always holding back, You do know he only uses 25% of his total power there's only been a few occasions where he's stopped holding back plus he isn't always bloodlusted that rarely happens while SBP never holds back and is nearly always bloodlusted. So we can't really say he's more powerful although SBP will eventually be more powerful than Superman because he is just a teenager/young adult and he's already at Superman's level. Unless Superman becomes Superman Prime One Million by sundipping for thousands of years.
We know it's %100 because Superman can't even move one planet by himself. He never has. He's always needed help.
Superboy-Prime moved dozens of planets all by himself back to back one at a time.
This is the only example I need to use to convey my point. End of discussion.
@spiderbuck: It was only a comment on how @dondave tends to write shorter answers despite being a good debater on the battle forums. I'm with him too on this match up as two Lanterns will be more than a match for Superman but I do have issues generalising the capabilities of Lanterns based on the showings of one of them. Still, I don't deny there's plausibility in these assessments and Hal has mentioned in his plans for dealing with a rogue JLA that he could make Superman see kryptonite when none is actually there.
@ancient_0f_days Bit confused with your comment though mate. You say Hal or John alone can either give Superman a very good fight or if they were bloodlusted, beat him. But in the Wonder Woman vs Sinestro article last week, you sided with Diana over Sinestro when Sinestro is arguably more skilled with a ring than Hal or John as he does things Hal didn't know could be done with a ring. How come you hold these two different views mate? Just confused is all.
Aaaaah. Gotcha. A more apt description would have been curt or brief. And yeah I don't agree with him all the time but more so than not, probably.
And Sinestro takes imo. Current Sinestro with Parallax, stomps.
Lanterns win cause of provided scans of other people
On a side note:
5/7 Members of the JL can solo the Avengers. I never knew GL's were that badass.
Yes, they are badass, but no, soloing the current Avengers line up is not happening.
Nah Batman can solo the entire Marvel universe w/o prep.
Meh. Tony Stark, Reed Richards, Dr. Doom with prep >> Batman. But it's nice that you are a huge fan of DC. I think it's swell.
Reed Richards = Doom > Tony = Batman. Tony would have more scientific prep but Batman would have better tactical. The fact you dont understand a joke is swell.
Lanterns win cause of provided scans of other people
On a side note:
5/7 Members of the JL can solo the Avengers. I never knew GL's were that badass.
Yes, they are badass, but no, soloing the current Avengers line up is not happening.
Nah Batman can solo the entire Marvel universe w/o prep.
Meh. Tony Stark, Reed Richards, Dr. Doom with prep >> Batman. But it's nice that you are a huge fan of DC. I think it's swell.
Reed Richards = Doom > Tony = Batman. Tony would have more scientific prep but Batman would have better tactical. The fact you dont understand a joke is swell.
Ah, you were being funny. I'm glad you don't actually believe that, because it would be ridiculous.
I think you heard me clearly. SBP is more powerful than Superman.
I didn't understand what you meant. We actually don't know if that's true since Superman is always holding back, You do know he only uses 25% of his total power there's only been a few occasions where he's stopped holding back plus he isn't always bloodlusted that rarely happens while SBP never holds back and is nearly always bloodlusted. So we can't really say he's more powerful although SBP will eventually be more powerful than Superman because he is just a teenager/young adult and he's already at Superman's level. Unless Superman becomes Superman Prime One Million by sundipping for thousands of years.
We know it's %100 because Superman can't even move one planet by himself. He never has. He's always needed help.
Superboy-Prime moved dozens of planets all by himself back to back one at a time.
This is the only example I need to use to convey my point. End of discussion.
He's moved planets alone before of course it depends on the writer. You obviously have no idea what his feats are. He moved Moon and Earth sized objects before ALONE only when he was with the JL did he have help as to not outshine them. He can do it alone.
He's moved planets alone before of course it depends on the writer. You obviously have no idea what his feats are. He moved Moon and Earth sized objects before ALONE only when he was with the JL did he have help as to not outshine them. He can do it alone.
You're example is Invalid :)
When did post-Crisis, pre-52 Superman move something the size of the Earth alone? Scans?
He's moved planets alone before of course it depends on the writer. You obviously have no idea what his feats are. He moved Moon and Earth sized objects before ALONE only when he was with the JL did he have help as to not outshine them. He can do it alone.
You're example is Invalid :)
When did post-Crisis, pre-52 Superman move something the size of the Earth alone? Scans?
*Before you say Hal was helping him move the Earth he really wasn't, He was just creating the tether to Earth that Superman could use to move the Earth much like what Superman utilized in the 1st scan above*
He's moved planets alone before of course it depends on the writer. You obviously have no idea what his feats are. He moved Moon and Earth sized objects before ALONE only when he was with the JL did he have help as to not outshine them. He can do it alone.
You're example is Invalid :)
When did post-Crisis, pre-52 Superman move something the size of the Earth alone? Scans?
*Before you say Hal was helping him move the Earth he really wasn't, He was just creating the tether to Earth that Superman could use to move the Earth much like what Superman utilized in the 1st scan above*
He's not even towing a planet, he's towing a tiny Island. The comments and bubbles are of only hyperboles. Otherwise the Sentry beats Superman because he stalemated Galactus. Go read the rules on the forum.
Second scan proves Superman cannot tow the planet by himself. Hal is obviously helping him as Hal says "We've got to PULL the planet back into place." Every notable viner here has agreed.
SBP pushes planets, multiple ones. No harness, no nothing. Just pushes them.
When did post-Crisis, pre-52 Superman move something the size of the Earth alone? Scans?
*Before you say Hal was helping him move the Earth he really wasn't, He was just creating the tether to Earth that Superman could use to move the Earth much like what Superman utilized in the 1st scan above*
Thanks for the scans. However, ...
The first scan doesnt really show anything. The text also doesnt show any facts. "Superman takes care of us"... yeah, sometimes. Sometimes not. Those mean nothing.
The second scan is of Superman AND Hal Jordan moving the Earth. Superman even says "Just add your power to mine, Hal". So you cant say that Superman was the only one doing the pulling. If he was then he wouldnt be asking Hal to add power to his own.
And, BTW, if Superman can move the Earth by himself, why does he even need Hal Jordan's construct? Answer: Cause Superman cant move the Earth by himself. Even if he has the strength, he still cant do it. The Earth is not made of Adamantium or something solid like that. If Superman tries to move the Earth by pushing on it he'll just push his way down through the dirt and rock into the Earth's core.
@slimj87d: @willpayton: Hal did not help Superman all he did was create a construct to aid Superman in towing the planet, Will you said it you're self he can't just push it or else he would go through the planet he needs something to tug forth. This proves he has the strength to do it. and Slim Sentry didn't stalemate Galactus alone it was Sentry and X-Man together 2 hugely powerful beings which X-Man stated himself people wouldn't just assume he couldn't move the Earth if he wasn't capable of doing it.
@slimj87d: @willpayton: Hal did not help Superman all he did was create a construct to aid Superman in towing the planet, Will you said it you're self he can't just push it or else he would go through the planet he needs something to tug forth. This proves he has the strength to do it. and Slim Sentry didn't stalemate Galactus alone it was Sentry and X-Man together 2 hugely powerful beings which X-Man stated himself people wouldn't just assume he couldn't move the Earth if he wasn't capable of doing it.
Right.........That is exactly why Superman said "add more power to mine Hal"
@slimj87d: @willpayton: Hal did not help Superman all he did was create a construct to aid Superman in towing the planet, Will you said it you're self he can't just push it or else he would go through the planet he needs something to tug forth. This proves he has the strength to do it. and Slim Sentry didn't stalemate Galactus alone it was Sentry and X-Man together 2 hugely powerful beings which X-Man stated himself people wouldn't just assume he couldn't move the Earth if he wasn't capable of doing it.
There's no evidence in the scans to show that Superman pulled the planet alone. He obviously needed Hal's construct to pull on, so we agree there that Superman cant pull the Earth by himself. But, Superman also asked Hal to add his power to his own. If Hal was only providing the construct then there's no reason why Superman would say this.
Also, here's another time that Superman needed help to pull the Earth:
@slimj87d: @willpayton: Hal did not help Superman all he did was create a construct to aid Superman in towing the planet, Will you said it you're self he can't just push it or else he would go through the planet he needs something to tug forth. This proves he has the strength to do it. and Slim Sentry didn't stalemate Galactus alone it was Sentry and X-Man together 2 hugely powerful beings which X-Man stated himself people wouldn't just assume he couldn't move the Earth if he wasn't capable of doing it.
I am not convinced by your logic and what you have tried to present. If and when others that are notable debaters here somehow get convinced by some solid evidence, then I will come back and relook at this thread. But as of right now, there's nothing that shows or proves Superman is on par with Superboy-Prime. I am with the census on this one, and everyone with any credibility on this site I have interacted with have all come to agree that SBP is stronger than Superman.
Let me know when you gather some kind of SOLID evidence that has nothing to do with your own opinion.
@willpayton: @dccomicsrule2011: Actually yes he was towing it alone of course Hal is adding power he has to create a construct big enough wrap around the earth and fit Superman he wasn't pulling anything.
@slimj87d: @willpayton: Hal did not help Superman all he did was create a construct to aid Superman in towing the planet, Will you said it you're self he can't just push it or else he would go through the planet he needs something to tug forth. This proves he has the strength to do it. and Slim Sentry didn't stalemate Galactus alone it was Sentry and X-Man together 2 hugely powerful beings which X-Man stated himself people wouldn't just assume he couldn't move the Earth if he wasn't capable of doing it.
I am not convinced by your logic and what you have tried to present. If and when others that are notable debaters here somehow get convinced by some solid evidence, then I will come back and relook at this thread. But as of right now, there's nothing that shows or proves Superman is on par with Superboy-Prime. I am with the census on this one, and everyone with any credibility on this site I have interacted with have all come to agree that SBP is stronger than Superman.
Let me know when you gather some kind of SOLID evidence that has nothing to do with your own opinion.
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