@ghostravage: I recall seeing her get her butt beat in uncanny X-men or X-factor by Psylocke, I personally love the character do you have any feats/scans that would represent her power post de-powerment (recall fantomex and cluster in the comic where Psylocke beat her and tied her up)
@detacude: You're talking about Post-Depowered Spiral in Uncanny X-Force vol.3 when she explicitly claimed she was depowered. This thread is with Pre-Depowered Spiral. There are some feats from another thread i posted back, i'm going to repost them here.
Well, i think she stomps because she can turn invisible, she can phase through Thor's attacks, she can redirect his energy attack and she can depower him considering she's done all of this things. Take for example her encounter against The Avengers back in Avengers vol.1 Annual #15 when she nullified Spectrum's powers, phase through Captain America's shield throw by teleporting in a split second between dimensions while proceeding and putting him in a time-displaced field which impede him from moving or getting near Spiral.
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Likewise, she proved to be able to fight while completely invisible as she proved back in Marvel Fanfare vol.2 #4 (Yes, it is canon as it happened in Longshot and Spiral's canon publication in Mojoverse) when she turned invisible and was beating the crap out of Quark, which is a feat itself given he has the same powers as Longshot and his luck is absurd.
She's also a rather powerful reality warper, if we can call it that. She managed to turn to children a group of X-Men consisting in Juggernaut, Nightcrawler, Psylocke, Bishop, Storm, Rachel Grey and Kurt's daughter from another reality back in Uncanny X-Men vol.1 #461. She was also seen multitasking at a high degree, deflecting beams and casting spells at the same time, which is noteworthy given she needs to dance to cast them.
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Furthermore, her combat speed is much more impressive than Thor's even more so when she can keep track of an actual speedster, teleport faster than he can react and catch him before he can do anything about it, as she proved back in Uncanny X-Men vol.1 #223 while being inside a mansion.
The main argument here would be that she simply depowers Thor, considering she did as much against Hercules himself back in the aforementioned issue Avengers vol.1 Annual #15 after she beat almost all of them by herself. Taking into account Hercules godhood was removed by Spiral, i see no reason why it wouldn't work on Thor just as much, meaning most of his abilities would be gone and he might be able to pick the hammer but not use its powers. *Disclaimer: Cropped images are not next to one another in the story, this was merely to showcase Spiral beating and stripping Hercules of his powers afterwards.*
Is this enough? There's a lot more to showcase, she doesn't have as much appearances as Thor himself, but she was indeed a powerful foe to fight back then, not now that she's depowered into a lesser being with most of her abilities gone.
Of course, just take what you need and is relevant to your inquires. Regardless, there's more.
If this serves to cement your opinion here, she also depowered Magneto back in her first relevant appearance as an X-Men villain back in Uncanny X-Men vol.1 #199 while also redirecting his attack and molecularly affecting in while doing so.
That's assuming she doesn't redirect his attacks back at him as showcased back in Uncanny X-Men vol.1 #207 against Rachel Summers when she had the Phoenix Force, which is indeed impressive enough to at the very least claim the attacks shouldn't be hitting her. Then again, she can phase through them and Thor shouldn't be able to see her either.
nor teleports out of his sight everytime he gets a look on her. She can teleport rather fast, even more so to the point of teleporting before bullets get to her after they've been fired, she did as much during X-Factor vol.1 Annual #7 against Havok's X-Men team.
Anyways, remember she nullified Magneto's powers without beating him nor KOing him, she simply did so. Moreover, she has done it more times, as she did against Psylocke in Uncanny X-Men vol.1 #461 while also shooting it from the distance.
Needless to say, she also beat the crap out of Storm with a single spell back in Uncanny X-Men vol.1 #206 when she was fighting an X-Men team, ultimately overpowering all of them including Phoenix Force Rachel Summers.
There's more, just ask if you need anything else. It is worth noting that she also basically reality warped a bunch of X-Men at the same time by throwing a "Phoenix Jean Grey" bomb on them of her creation, turning them all, including Storm, into children whose mutagen didn't quite develop just yet. She did this twice.
Thank you for this. So now that I see what she can do, she's able to stop Spectrum, she's a reality warper, etc. You even have a dated scan of Storm being beaten by her so it is clear she is all well beyond Storm's abilities. Why then did you make this battle if you knew storm would lose?
@butterflykyss: Because Hulk has already beaten her and she has been unable to harm Hulk in the past yet that didn't stop you nor the others from debating. What's the difference here? That it is actually shown how easily Storm was dealt with? You're even claiming she should beat Thor and probably beat Odin as well. It was claimed she took out an nigh-omnipotent team above Galactus... What's the difference here considering Spiral is leaps and bounds inferior to Galactus? What makes her weaker in this thread than the others?
@butterflykyss: Because Hulk has already beaten her and she has been unable to harm Hulk in the past yet that didn't stop you nor the others from debating. What's the difference here? That it is actually shown how easily Storm was dealt with? You're even claiming she should beat Thor and probably beat Odin as well. It was claimed she took out an nigh-omnipotent team above Galactus... What's the difference here considering Spiral is leaps and bounds inferior to Galactus? What makes her weaker in this thread than the others?
A=B=C doesn't apply when debating. I have my reasons for why she can beat Thor. I never said Odin or Galactus. So not sure where you are getting that from. You have to look at the context of what is being argued and what actually happened in the scans. That said, you cannot expect me to to believe with all of your knowledge of both characters you would think I am so gullible to think you were not doing this to be a troll. It's fine; I don't care. But it's clear what you were doing just own it.
@theleftover: Thanks for the feats, I've looked for some in the past for Spiral but all I could find was post de-powerment comics, I thought this thread was post-depowerment, if this is pre-depowerment this is a huge mis-match, hit me up if you have anymore.. someone should seriously make a proper respect thread for her it's a shame.
Spiral is not a true reality warper. Her powers are magical. She does all of her feats via dance magic. I'd say Storm has the advantage in this fight. For starters, Spiral has to do a dance to perform her spells. Storm can attack much faster than that and can use her elemental powers to keep Spiral off balance so she can't perform her spells. I mean, really, how is she going to dance in the middle of a hurricane? Regarding Spiral depowering Spectrum et all, she has the ability to cast spells that cuts people off from their super powers. For her to remove your powers, however, she has to hit you with one of her magic flares that she shoots from her hands.
Don't get me wrong, Spiral has a wacky powerset that is very dangerous. If she tags Storm with one of her spells, Storm is through. However, I think Storm is more likely to tag Spiral first with one of her elemental barrages since Storm is really faster on the draw. I dont think either character has any real defense against the other depending on the attacks each woman in this fight is using. It comes down to who hits first. I think Storm will land the first blow.
Spiral is not a true reality warper. Her powers are magical. She does all of her feats via dance magic. I'd say Storm has the advantage in this fight. For starters, Spiral has to do a dance to perform her spells. Storm can attack much faster than that and can use her elemental powers to keep Spiral off balance so she can't perform her spells.
It is explicitly stated in her handbook entry from the All-New Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe vol.1 #10 that she does not need to perform dances for all her spells, specially phasing and teleportation as it has been proven several times already.
In fact, even if she dances, she does it in a quite high speed to the point it is a blur.As showcased back in Uncanny X-Men vol.1 Annual #10. Even then, i find it extremely stupid for you to claim she's not a reality warper when she has done exactly that, the methods and power sources are inconsequential to the given title.
Regardless, she has already dealt with faster opponents like Spectrum for starters, which is leaps and bound faster than anything Storm will ever do in her rather underwhelming publication. Spectrum is confirmed to move and perceive at lightspeed yet Spiral was fast enough to dance the spell before she could do anything. Moreover, Spiral has her own set of reaction feats which are definitely good enough to give her the advantage here speed-wise. She has reacted to several bullets, while multitasking, from a very short distance, against Domino nonetheless, whose powers were working at the time as showcased back in Uncanny X-Men vol.1 #511.
With this said, Spiral has already beaten Storm three times. The first one was already posted previously in this thread and she literally one shot'd her. Either way in the aforementioned Uncanny X-Men vol.1 #461 she was completely helpless against her to the point she simply turned her into a child with no super powers developed in literally an instant. I sincerely don't see how speed is an issue here when Storm herself isn't that fast to begin with, or should i start posting instances, let alone painfully overwhelming in quantity, of Storm simply getting tagged and proving to be much slower than you're arguing for.
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Either way, let's use the same argument you and your crew love so much. Ororo has been CONSISTENTLY too much of a weakling to fight Spiral and can't withstand a single attack from her, nor has a counter for her more exoteric abilities. Now, do you actually have a provable counter for her abilities, the fact she has already been beaten three times and the fact your current argument is nothing but refutable or are you going to apply the same "state and ignore" tactic you applied in the Storm vs Hulk thread?
@theleftover: Thanks for the feats, I've looked for some in the past for Spiral but all I could find was post de-powerment comics, I thought this thread was post-depowerment, if this is pre-depowerment this is a huge mis-match, hit me up if you have anymore.. someone should seriously make a proper respect thread for her it's a shame.
No problem, i'll let you know. According to some Storm fans, this is not a mismatch, let's see what they bring to the table.
@theleftover: It does'nt surprise me tbh, most people have a much better understanding of what Storm is capable of, Spiral is'nt as mainstream and most people don't understand how over-powered she is.
While not all of Spiral spells may require dances, her spells to depower somebody certainly does, IIRC. I'm thinking now about the Spiral vs. Magneto fight. Also, when Spiral depowers somebody, she has to hit them with a handblasting spell meaning if she misses with the handblast, you are not depowered. Also, even if her dances are super speed and she's a blur, its still not faster than a character who can attack at the speed of though, or Storm, who can attack with less than a conscious thought.
Other problems come up for Spiral when asked if she can perform several feats at once. For instance, if she phases herself out of this dimension so that physical attacks pass through her, can she, while phased like this, do a spell to depower somebody? Then there is the fact that Storm can hurt people who are intangible with her electrical powers. Kitty Pryde comes to mind on this.
Regarding Spiral vs. Spectrum, I don't buy that Monica was coming directly for Spiral at lightspeed and Spiral caught her before she was hit. I don't think Spiral could win a fight against Monica if it were a true one-on-one fight and Spectrum was willing to spam her speed attacks from the start of the battle.
If Storm tags Spiral with one of her elemental assaults, Spiral goes down. If Spiral tags Ororo with one of her spells, Ororo goes down. The thing one has to look at is who is most likely to tag the other with one of their attacks first. Storm's powers can easily blanket the entire battlefield making it virtually impossible to avoid her attacks. If Spiral tries to go intangible to avoid this, then there is a question as to whether or not she can be affected by Storm's electrical attacks (since Storm can hurt intangible foes with her electrical powers) and whether or not Spiral can even affect Storm while remaining intangible.
Another question to raise is if Storm raises a protective electrical field around herself (Storm has been able to deflect Cyclop's object blasts, telekinesis, and electromagnetic attacks with her elemental powers), would Sprial be able to dismantle that? Assuming that Spiral could dissipate such a field, while she's busy doing that, Storm attacks Spiral with an elemental barrage and takes her out of the fight.
I think Storm has a big advantage in this fight if she fights intelligently.
Thank you for this. So now that I see what she can do, she's able to stop Spectrum, she's a reality warper, etc. You even have a dated scan of Storm being beaten by her so it is clear she is all well beyond Storm's abilities. Why then did you make this battle if you knew storm would lose?
Based on the feats provided, Spiral is clearly more hax and more versatile than Storm. I see little reason why she doesn't beat Ororo.
Obviously Storm can beat somebody who has beaten the entire X-Men before, including Storm and Racheal Summer Phoenix. Because obviously Storm was just jobbing when that happened.
Based on the feats provided, Spiral is clearly more hax and more versatile than Storm. I see little reason why she doesn't beat Ororo.
Obviously Storm can beat somebody who has beaten the entire X-Men before, including Storm and Racheal Summer Phoenix. Because obviously Storm was just jobbing when that happened.
/sarcasam
Obviously. Storm is faster than sound, always has her powers active, can brain fry Hulk, redirect planetary energy with winds and has near infinite power because of a totally not out of context showing where she controls a galactic core.
Thing one has to consider when Spiral takes on the X-Men is exactly what is Storm doing. Storm is not using tornadoes, blizzards, etc when the team fights Spiral. She is written as using the bare minimum of her powers and the most basic attacks. Plus, Storm has learned to control the elements internally within her opponents.
Yeah, Spiral beat her, but all Storm was doing was throwing handblasts. Ororo has far more resources to bring to bear besides her handbolts that she did not use in that fight. Question is, if Storm decides to bring more substantial resources to the table, can Spiral stand against that? I don't think so.
Yeah, Spiral beat her, but all Storm was doing was throwing handblasts. Ororo has far more resources to bring to bear besides her handbolts that she did not use in that fight. Question is, if Storm decides to bring more substantial resources to the table, can Spiral stand against that? I don't think so.
How does Storm beat Spiral when Racheal Summers can't?
Yeah, Spiral beat her, but all Storm was doing was throwing handblasts. Ororo has far more resources to bring to bear besides her handbolts that she did not use in that fight. Question is, if Storm decides to bring more substantial resources to the table, can Spiral stand against that? I don't think so.
How does Storm beat Spiral when Racheal Summers can't?
1) Storm is MUCH more powerful than a non-Phoenix Force Rachel.
2) Storm and Rachel have two completely different powersets.
Yeah, Spiral beat her, but all Storm was doing was throwing handblasts. Ororo has far more resources to bring to bear besides her handbolts that she did not use in that fight. Question is, if Storm decides to bring more substantial resources to the table, can Spiral stand against that? I don't think so.
How does Storm beat Spiral when Racheal Summers can't?
1) Storm is MUCH more powerful than a non-Phoenix Force Rachel.
2) Storm and Rachel have two completely different powersets.
Yea. But this was Phoenix Racheal.....Racheal had the Phoenix's power through the whole mojoverse thing IIRC
If somebody with that power can't beat Spiral, what chance does Storm have? Racheal is better in literally everything but versatility and Storm has failed to use this versatility on storm effectively before, or even win with significant backup
@butterflykyss: lol This is a bait thread made by a Troll?? You mean to tell me people where this salty they made this thread? LOL wow. Never could have imagine people can stoop this low. Anyway I don't know Spiral like that.
Yeah, Spiral beat her, but all Storm was doing was throwing handblasts. Ororo has far more resources to bring to bear besides her handbolts that she did not use in that fight. Question is, if Storm decides to bring more substantial resources to the table, can Spiral stand against that? I don't think so.
How does Storm beat Spiral when Racheal Summers can't?
1) Storm is MUCH more powerful than a non-Phoenix Force Rachel.
2) Storm and Rachel have two completely different powersets.
Yea. But this was Phoenix Racheal.....Racheal had the Phoenix's power through the whole mojoverse thing IIRC
If somebody with that power can't beat Spiral, what chance does Storm have? Racheal is better in literally everything but versatility and Storm has failed to use this versatility on storm effectively before, or even win with significant backup
Different powerset. I'd have to see the actual fight. Rachel's attacks are very different from tornadoes and such.
@theleftover: Her powers are magical. That is not the same as reality warping. She can generate effects like transforming people into children and stuff, but she's no Franklin Richards. People with magic can do transformations.
That said, if Storm blanketed the battlefield with a powerful wind, what is Spiral going to do about it? Storm has never done more in a fight against Spiral than hurl a few lightning bolts at her from the background.
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