Star Wars - Galactic Empire vs. CIS

Who'd win in a massive galactic war ?

Galactic Empire during the time of Empire Strikes Back,but with the first Death Star, and all of it's admirals and other important military personel that died on Death Star alive again. Of course with Vader and Emperor Sidious on charge.

CIS near the ending of the clone wars, but with all of their military personel and separatist council members alive and/or free. Led by Dooku, Grievous and Separatist Council.

Both sides are free to sometimes use a help of a bounty hunters or Hutt clan for special missions, while Boba Fett serves the empire, Cad Bane serves the CIS.

Empire controls majority of the space, has under the possession all the systems that the Republic had, CIS has their old planets back :

Red is Separatist space, Blue is Empires space, Green is OuterRim.

Of course, THERE IS NO PLOT SHIELD !

So, would the CIS overwhelm the Empire with their enormous numbers, and greater both navy and on land firepower. Or would the Empires territorial superiority, and better leadership and military trained personnel as well as the possession of the Death Star be critical to the Confederacy's loss, that is up to you to decide.

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Oh, and by the way, all heroes and leaders have a full right to participate in combat.

Oh and Hutts control the OuterRim, not the Admiral Tarkin (Empire).

This is pretty cool. I'd say the CIS would win. They're basically a better-armed rebel alliance. Plus there's a possibility of Luke, Obi-Wan and Count Dooku confronting the Emperor and Vader, which would be awesome.

@cis: Vader and Sidious would rag doll Greivious and council

Tho Dooku and The Troops could overwhelm with Sidious prolly changing sides

Sidious solos Dooku and Grievous, and the Separatist council can drop dead literally from Sidious presence.

Anyways, all-out army fight.... I dunno. The Empire doesn't seem to have as skilled marksmen as the Republic, but it has more advanced technology...

I mean, it could go either way, but I'd give the majority to the Empire. The CIS was built to fail, really.

MM,anyone else please ?

??? Some of these comments already....

The Empire is better in pretty much every way, not just that but they also have the advantage of history knowledge and the fact of having Imperial Intelligence.

They also have Force Users, not to the extent of numbers like the Jedi but even still. Their darkside sects can do a lot of damage.

Superior Troopers with training, superior technology, logistics, pilots, navy, etc. Heck in many cases, they have superior droids too.

The only thing that the numbers give the CIS is preventing their inevitable loss.

Galactic Empire wins.

Empire SLAUGHTERHOUSE. The GE is in possession of the largest military in history, including the CIS; it's controlled by two Sith more powerful and dangerous than Dooku; it has more numerous dark Jedi than the CIS; it has superweapons the CIS does not; and it has a span and sphere of influence the CIS never did.

Of course, the rule in the individual sectors had not changed significantly in the inner portions of the galaxy, but as Mon Cal cruisers, Corellian Corvettes and the rest of the Republic fleet drove Star Destroyers from planet after planet, there was a growing sense that the “Imperial juggernaut” would face defeat.

The Empire disintegrated under its own weight, splintering into countless independent factions with cautious allegiances to other factions, and all swearing loyalty to the “Empire.”

--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook

This is part of what makes the Empire so dangerous; not only does it have Star Destroyers hovering above every world, it also has millions of bureaucratic, nobles, and even ordinary citizens under its thrall.

The Imperial fleet is the largest in the history of the galaxy. Even during the days of the Old Republic, when Jedi battled the Sith across the stars, the number of ships was a mere fraction of the Empire's strength. Built by countless civilian contractors, the Imperial fleet enforces the Emperor's will in all corners of the galaxy.

The Imperial military is a massive organization, with tens of trillions of regular army soldiers, trillions of fleet crew, and a vast force of stormtroopers both cloned and conditioned.

--Taken from Rebellion Era Campaign Guide

Having eliminated his most powerful opponents, Emperor Palpatine is free to throw all of his resources into a military buildup unlike any in recorded galactic history. Republic Assault Ships used during the Clone Wars are replaced by larger warships with more destructive firepower. Human males—especially those prejudiced to aliens—are recruited from Military Academies to command the clone troops; those who refuse to voluntarily enlist are either drafted to serve alongside the clones as footsoldiers or eliminated. Specialized training leads to the creation of new military elites to enforce the Emperor's will, from the deadly efficiency of Imperial TIE fighter pilots to the resourcefulness of reconnaissance scout troopers. With this awesome fleet and a limitless number of stormtroopers at his disposal, Palpatine maintains control over former-Republic worlds and intimidates others into joining his ever-expanding Galactic Empire.

--Taken from The Ultimate Visual Guide

@silver2467: Good on ya Silver!

The empire is better in every way but number of infantry

CIS were pawns ultimately. Empire is the real deal.

Rubs eyes ... Silver is back!?

Yeah, it's literally impossible to suggest the CIS stands a chance when the Empire is much bigger, has a higher quality of standard troop, superior weapons, superior superweapons, superior capital ships, superior fleets as a whole, superior leaders and Force users (vastly, in fact), greater political power and influence, and just greater technology.

With the Death Star in their possession, I see no way the CIS can win this.

They can't win period, even if the GE doesn't have the DS.

The empire wins.

Star Wars rebels already showed that man for man the droids are better than storm troopers

And there's a lot more droids than storm troopers ultimately

But they'd lose just due to space combat against superior vessels

@royal_warrior: Rebels isn't a factor here I'm sure.

@wolfrazer: perhaps your right but showing that a small battalion of droids was able to take down more than ten times their numbers of Empire troops which included walkers and ships

Because the Canon Empire is ***. Didn't do the Noghri justice either..

CIS lack any force users against Vaders canon feats which are very good(thanks comics). Also canon empire had 15000 star destroyers at their highest point. Before the first Death Stars destruction. Source is the canon novel lost stars.

Anyone using Star Wars rebels a legit reason for why the empire loses should rethink their life let's face it the canon empire is a joke. I'm basing my opinion on legends and legends empire stomps

Does the cis have the nightsisters, ventress, savage and deathwatch?

@hayabusa77: Would they really make that much of a difference?

No but it helps

Still the Empire.

I think Disney Canon CIS could win but Legends version gets stomped.

@stormdriven: oh i thought of something. CIS has ground advantage because of the supertanks and anti organics cannon

@hayabusa77: They never mass produced the super tanks because the prototypes were destroyed on Geonosis. As far as the cannon, it depends where and when they deploy it. TIE fighters can easily deal with it, and any Inquisitors deployed in battle against it should be able to handle it given Ventress and the Nightsisters managed to defeat one with minimal losses. Even without any Inquisitors, the Empire should be able to handle them with artillery or vehicles outside of air support.

I mean, the Empire is basically a more militarized, less moral Republic. I don't really see why they wouldn't win this especially with the additional firepower modern Star Destroyers give.

In addition to their navy/army, Sidious would have extremely in-depth knowledge of the CIS given he helped set it up, so he can start striking at key areas almost immediately. A fleet of Star Destroyers strolling up to one of their main production planets should ruin things quite quickly.

If Dooku becomes an issue, Sidious prob does what he did with Maul. I don't think Vader can take him this early (depending if he's prime), but he should be able to take on Grevious if he's smart.

Legends CIS prolly would beat Canon Empire.

Canon CIS loses to both Canon Empire and Legends Empire.

@stormdriven: did they defeat one or did they outrun it?

Also with the supertank, they still had about 10 or 20 exiting the factory. One of those plus rey shields and near infinite armies could turn the favor.

I say CIS has advantage in ground combat, sieges of bases, and defense (along with sabotage with the different droids. But empire has navel superiority, better strategy and intelligence, and more force users

Would 2003 the clone wars animated series be part of canon or legends?

Also this

@hayabusa77: Legends.

The latter, anything pre-2014 unless stated otherwise is Legends. Anything post unless stated otherwise is part of the Current Canon.

@wolfrazer: so would that make grievous the biggest counter to the darksiders in the empire? (Assassins. Inquisitors, shadow guard)

CIS. Superior strategists, comparable numbers, superior arsenal, more Force users, which is the deciding factor.

And, I'd wager that Dooku has the diplomatic advantage and can sway far more systems to his cause, augmenting his numbers.

GE should take it.

@hayabusa77: The Nightsisters both outran the shells and destroyed one.

The supertanks were all dropped into that chasm when the bridge was destroyed, so the CIS won’t have any.

I mean, why though? Sieges I’ll give you, but everything else should go squarely into the Empire’s favor. Droids are dumb, and are only effective at overwhelming opponents with sheer numbers.

@lord_tenebrous: Where’d you get superior arsenal and more Force users from?

Even superior strategists is arguable, given Trench and Grievous are their only two good ones.

@stormdriven: ok but they are force sensitive so they do better than normal troops.

They were in clone wars, but i figured they are still allowed here. Considering the CIS has geonosis and their blockades, i doubt the empire would stop production soon

Droids aren't dumb exactly. They are easily programmed for whatever is needed (construction, infantry, sniper) while the empire needs time to train people. Not to mention the nightmare of commandos or magna guards on the battlefield.

I am not saying CIS win. I am saying the empire has their work cut out for them.

Plus the CIS have had the plans for the death star since atleast AotC

@hayabusa77: Hence why I said an Inquisitor should be able to deal with them effectively. Regardless, the Empire still has other things capable of dealing with the cannons.

They weren’t mass produced and were only used in battle once. Even if the Separatists had them, would the Empire not go to oppose them like the Republic did if they found out the CIS were developing super tanks?

The Empire has so many systems and people to train troops, it shouldn’t even factor into this. Droids can be programmed for different jobs, but they’ve been noted more than once as being unintelligent. Nevermind the fact that the Republic wanted a clone army because clones are smarter and more creative than droids. Same principal applies with the Empire.

I don’t think a war between the two factions will be short either, but I also don’t think there’s any doubt about who the winner is.

A concept maybe, but Poggle and the Geonosians were nearly wiped out so their knowledge of the Death Star would be limited at best.

@stormdriven: fair enough. But i was still talking about normal troops being mostly screwed.

They weren't mass produced but there was still a lot. In this battle, unless the empire attack geonosis first, they could get a few out there. Plus there is the umbarians (however you say it) with the krell story

Yes they are dumber but still mass produced and more efficient. With people you need food, medicals, individual training, and that still takes time. Droids still have advantage with numbers. Also clones are better because they aren't recruits. They are rapidly grown and taught like droids but smarter. The 501sf is the only clone force the empire has left really.

Niether do i. I am just playing devil's advocate and trying to give the CIS some advantage and points.

They were wiped out but the OP has all the council members and their old territory for the CIS

Difficult.

Stormtroopers and B1s are equally fodder. There are more B1s.

The ONLY dangerous land vehicle the empire has is the AT-AT which would get destroyed by hyena bombers. AT-STs against Octupturra Droids, Spider Walkers, Hailfire Droids, MTTs, Snail Tanks and loads of others? Plus Droidekas and all the other deadly droid models. The CIS stomps this on ground.

In space it's very different. The CIS still outnumbers the empire but an ISD could probably take on two Providence carriers and a Providence destroyer (like Admiral Trench's) would equal one ISD.

Super Star Destroyers give a major advantage here because the CIS has nothing like them. Still, the spam of their Banking clan frigates is ridiculous just because of the numbers they're holding. Death Stars were destroyed by the Rebellion. I honestly don't see why the CIS couldn't do the same. If it helps, I honestly think imperial officers are more incompetent than the average tactical droid. Thrawn is equalled by both Grievous and Trench as tactical commanders.

For space it's really about the Empire's firepower against the CIS numbers. I'd give the empire a slight advantage but not by much. They'd be very pressed on ground invasions.

Sidious and Vader > Dooku and Grievous is not great enough of an advantage to win this for the empire.

This really comes down to the fact the Empire has nothing like the clones to hold off the ridiculous armies of droids coming their way. Those were skilled men the CIS faced. Stormtroopers, by comparison, are fodder.

Could go either way.

You know despite the Galactic Empire being much bigger than the CIS in theory it also their biggest weakness.

They have poor force concentration, in canon three ISD's are expected to cover multiple star systems.

The canon Galatic Empire navy is only 25,000 ISD's strong but they have around a million or hundred thousand planets.

Most of their territory is unsecured which means if the CIS do a multiple front attack they would actually have an easier time beating them than the Republic so the Galactic Empire would have to spread out its forces to not risk losing territory.

The Republic actually had less territory so they had more ships per system but the Galactic Empire went for being dirt cheap and inefficient.