SSJ4 Goku runs the Beerus gauntlet

@johncena69swag:

Tagoma- from training with frieza. He was able to survive a surprise attack from ssj gotenks. Ssj gotenks is ssj buu arc goku tier. Anywhere other than the balls and he would have been fine.

That was a Gag scene, if Gotenkz was serious he would have lolstomped him, after all he's around Super Buu's level, the only thing we know about Tagoma is that he's above captain Ginyu, besides, he lost to SSJ1 Gohan, and SSJ1 Gohan is always 50 x base and since base Gohan is currently weaker than his teen self, i don't see him anywhere near SSJ1 Goku let alone 3

Gohan- Mystic powerup. We are never told that he reverted back to regular saiyan levels, so it is illogical to assume that he did.

The fact that he used SSJ1 is enough to prove that he lost the mystic power up, also you are doing 50 x mystic which is very wrong since SSJ1 doesn't stack with mystic

Base Gohan was able to stand up to tagoma who is ssj3 level.

Neither Tagoma nor Gohan are SSJ3 level, Gohan was in base form while fighting Tagoma, Mystic Gohan is simply Gohan trying to go super saiyan

1. Base gohan in buu arc was WAY stronger than ssj3 goku. He has issues holding ssj and he has become weaker, but not to the point that everyone makes him out to be.

Base Gohan wasn't stronger than SSJ3 Goku, he has to power up to the mystic form to become more powerful, without powering up, he's still at the same level as base Goku or lower

Nowhere is it stated that he reverted to even teen gohan levels. We can't just assume that he is infinitely weaker because he couldn't take down god level frieza. Why do people only complain now even though he was just as foddery against beerus?

It's not god level Frieza, Gohan was fighting Tagoma in base form and lost then 1 shot him with SSJ1, there were no indications of him using the mystic form, so tagoma is somewhere between base Gohan and SSJ1 Gohan which is 50 x base Gohan

2. Forget about ssg. That has no place in any of this. It is a totally different transformation that we likely won't see again. Take goku's new strength in base as it is shown. SSB is 50x his new and improved base, not 50x SSG.

Fair enough

@noobsnowman: You can't completely deny feats just because there are so many inconsistencies. Dragonball Super for the most part has been pretty consistent. Now of course you use it logically obviously ssj4 is stronger than base Frieza no matter what. SSG Goku is stronger than SSJ4 Goku due to the greater feats. There is no other way of figuring out who is stronger.

And fish THIS IS A UNIVERSE BUSTER VS A MULTI SOLAR SYSTEME BUSTER. PLZ BEERUS IS FASTER THE ONLY WAY ssj4 goku can win is with hax. Sorry he doesn't have hax

orhet

Buu saga. Goku told fat buu that in two days there would be a fighter even stronger than himself. He had no idea that Gotenks could transform after he was already fused. This means he was saying ssj gotenks is stronger than him at ssj3.

Yeah he is stronger not equal. BUt how does that make SSJ3 Goku equal to Tagoma. Perfect Cell was stronger than SSJ Goku and Piccolo but that doesn't mean those two are equal.

When did they say this? This is just an assumption. Obviously he is a little weaker, but to say he lost all his strength is absurd.

It's based on weak he is. You can't lose half of your mystic power it doesn't work like. It was stated Gohan was not has strong as he used to be.

Frieza first form is 50x ssj3. Frieza's final form is 226x his first form. This means his final form is 11,300x ssj3.

Where are you getting this first multiuplier from? There nothings stating he is that much stronger than ssj3 Goku.

Toriyama has everything to do with the anime lol. The anime actually takes priority over the manga this time around since the manga is just an adaptation of the anime.

No it was clear in an article that he isn't involved in the new super anime and that he is even disappointed in how it is being done.

The manga can't be an adaption if its father ahead of the anime. Manga always take precedent over anime, especially since Toriyama is involved in the manga.

@le0nhart:

That was a Gag scene, if Gotenkz was serious he would have lolstomped him, after all he's around Super Buu's level,

Agreed, and it's about time you brought this up. Now, Gotenks could have easily stomped Tagoma correct? So it makes no sense for us to say ssj Gotenks = Tagoma and therefore Tagoma = ssj3 buu arc goku. So why exactly do you assume ssj super 17 arc goku = ssj3 baby arc goku? This is almost the exact same scenario. We know super 17 could have stomped him on the spot. Both sides here need to remove the boost in the calculations.

the only thing we know about Tagoma is that he's above captain Ginyu, besides, he lost to SSJ1 Gohan, and SSJ1 Gohan is always 50 x base and since base Gohan is currently weaker than his teen self, i don't see him anywhere near SSJ1 Goku let alone 3

Tagoma was above ginyu before he spent four months as frieza's punching bag. He lost to ssj Gohan yes, but you are underestimating ssj Gohan. Gohan is never stated to be weaker than his teen self. That is a baseless assumption.

Tagoma was able to effortlessly rip piccolo's arm off and take his punches without breaking his smile. Piccolo is somewhere around ssj level. Gohan in base was able to at least push him around a little. If Gohan base > piccolo then ssj Gohan = at least 50x ssj. Still well over ssj3 level. And still no match for first form frieza.

The fact that he used SSJ1 is enough to prove that he lost the mystic power up, also you are doing 50 x mystic which is very wrong since SSJ1 doesn't stack with mystic

Actually, he has shown that he is able to go ssj when mystic, but there is no need to. He was still mystic during BoG arc but he went ssj during the SSG ritual. But this is irrelevant now. Gohan base > piccolo = ssj implies that ssj gohan = 50x ssj = 6.25x ssj3.

Base Gohan wasn't stronger than SSJ3 Goku, he has to power up to the mystic form to become more powerful, without powering up, he's still at the same level as base Goku or lower

Mystic Gohan was Gohan's base. None of this is really relevant now but still, that scan could be interpreted in a number of different ways.

1. Gohan has to power up to reach mystic as a new form.

2. Gohan has to power up and draw out his strength like he does as a super saiyan. Not a transformation, just a boost he needs to power up to access.

3. Gohan needs to power up to the max this one time to activate the final step of the ritual.

Gohan was fighting Tagoma in base form and lost then 1 shot him with SSJ1, there were no indications of him using the mystic form, so tagoma is somewhere between base Gohan and SSJ1 Gohan which is 50 x base Gohan

We can now forget about Tagoma. Since that b.s. calculation existed only to prove that the super 17 arc assumed power increase was equally b.s. Now we have a new number. For BOTH sides.

Revised Numbers:

Gohan comes in at 6.25x ssj3 instead of the absurd 50x. This changes our final number for ssb to be ssb = 70,625x ssj3. 10% of that is 7,063x ssj3

I know you used this ridiculous super 17 arc power increase in your number. This changes your number from 32,000x ssj3 to 4,000x ssj3.

@emperorthanos:

Sorry I said some things that didn't make much sense. I was waiting for le0nhart to disprove them so I could prove a point. It doesn't do me any good for you to disprove everything lol. Then I can't get my point across.

Where are you getting this first multiuplier from? There nothings stating he is that much stronger than ssj3 Goku.

The 226x multiplier? That comes from namek power levels. Frieza first form is 530,000 and final form is 120,000,000. That means his final form is a little over 226 times his first form.

No it was clear in an article that he isn't involved in the new super anime and that he is even disappointed in how it is being done.

He writes the story he doesn't animate the show. Toriyama complained about the animation quality not the story.

The manga can't be an adaption if its father ahead of the anime. Manga always take precedent over anime, especially since Toriyama is involved in the manga.

There were times in the airing of dbz that the anime got ahead of the manga. And Toriyama is involved in the manga as in it's his story. The manga is made by Toyotara.

@johncena69swag:

The 226x multiplier? That comes from namek power levels. Frieza first form is 530,000 and final form is 120,000,000. That means his final form is a little over 226 times his first form.

No the 50x the ssj3 for first form Frieza. The second is right.

He writes the story he doesn't animate the show. Toriyama complained about the animation quality not the story.

You have any proof he writes(not saying you are wrong just want to know if its true). Because he never did that with DBZ, so why now.

There were times in the airing of dbz that the anime got ahead of the manga. And Toriyama is involved in the manga as in it's his story. The manga is made by Toyotara.

Yeah that's when the filler happened. Manga is Toriyama's, and anime is adapted from it.

Are people still saying the manga is taking precedence?

It's literally a promotional tool for the anime, nothing more, nothing less. Unless people take the manga of RoF as precedence over the movie, you shouldn't be taking the manga over the anime

@emperorthanos: he never says what it is about super that upset him and he IS involved in it

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/04/28/new-dragon-ball-super-tv-series-announced-for-2015/

You also have the fact that he was announced as overseeing the anime

@emperorthanos:

No the 50x the ssj3 for first form Frieza. The second is right.

That was total b.s. I changed that now.

As for the anime, this is the best I can do. I can't find any official sources but this lays it out nicely.

http://www.dragonballinsider.com/2015/10/30/dragon-ball-super-need-to-knows-commonly-asked-questions/

@mike_fowler: He clearly say he is disappointed in the quality of the anime.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/anime_manga/dragon_ball/dragon_ball_z/akira-toriyama-expresses-dissatisfaction-a130360

Manga has always taken precedent over the anime. Why would it change now. Akira himself writes the manga.

Manga and anime are both canon for Super.

To my knowledge there is nothing that states one takes precedence over the other.

That was total b.s. I changed that now.

Thank you. You could have just admitted this at the beginning and proved my point on how people just throw around multipliers. Instead of having me debunk every single thing you say.

@emperorthanos: I could have but I was really banking on le0nhart being the one to do it. That way I could turn it into a double standard for gt.

Oh I see as well, sorry about that then.

@emperorthanos: ? I know, I basically said he didn't specify what he means by "quality" (story, characterization, animation, etc.), that bit was directed more towards John than to you

No, he doesn't write the manga, there's a reason it's called TOYATORO'S manga and not toriyama's

Do you consider the RoF manga to take precedence over the movie? If not, then you shouldn't take the super manga as precedent over the anime, as the two mangas literally share the exact same purpose by the exact same author (to promote the main product)

@mike_fowler: The manga is illustrated by Toyotaro. It's still written by Toriyama just like the anime.

@mike_fowler:

Well quality suggest that he is unhappy with the anime overall. In turn proving that he is disappointed in how they are handling his work.

You confuse illustrator with writer. Toyatoro is the illustartor but Akira Toriyama writes the manga.

Difference is Akira Toriyama wrote the script for the movie as well. But I would take the manga over the movie. No to mention the manga basically tells you to watch the movie in the end. Meaning they are the same.

Also if you were paying attention my entire original point was the the movie's were still canon. And that Final Form Frieza(Not Golden) is weaker than Base Goku.

@thedarkpaladin: that doesn't really address what I said, when I say author, I meant manga artist

It's still called toyotaro's manga, and not toriyama's. To put it in simpler terms:

The anime is the "main product" the manga is part of the "sub products"

@emperorthanos:

You can't completely deny feats just because there are so many inconsistencies.

Are we going to conclude Frieza's inferiority compared to his old incarnation then? Because Frieza before RoF clearly has better showings.

The reason why Frieza is way superior to his old incarnation is due to powerscaling and statements, not feats.

Dragonball Super for the most part has been pretty consistent.

This isn't true. The most consistent out of all Dragonball series is actually DBGT.

For example, in DBS Beerus states that at base form Goku would be no match for Frieza and in SSJ would only barely beat Frieza, yet SSJ Goku contended with vastly superior opponents such as Perfect Cell, and base Goku in Buu Saga would be much, much stronger than when he was in the Frieza Saga.

I'd actually credit Super's inconsistencies to Akria's poor memory, at one point he nearly forgot what a SSJ3 looks like.

Now of course you use it logically obviously ssj4 is stronger than base Frieza no matter what. SSG Goku is stronger than SSJ4 Goku due to the greater feats. There is no other way of figuring out who is stronger.

Wait, you're saying SSJ4 > base ROF Frieza, yet SSJG > SSJ4? Base God Goku matched base Frieza in the anime... I'm confused here.

The only argument I see here in Super's favour is that "Super is universal while GT is not", and it is outright flawed. The problem is, claiming that GT is not with absolutely nothing to base on constitutes appeals to ignorance. In addition, Goku had to call upon every being on every planet in the universe to channel his Universal Spirit Bomb attack, meaning that GT is also universal in its own right.

Here is the truth. There is no way to figure out whether SSJG or SSJ4 is stronger simply because feats are inconsistent. It is theorised by fans that the purpose of SSJG is to replace SSJ4. but it does not mean that SSJG > SSJ4 by default. The best way to figure this out is from powerscaling and speculation, which isn't really allowed here because ComicVine specifically demands feats as proof even though Toriyama himself stated that battle power determines the strength of a character. In other words, comparing DBGT to DBS characters is considered spite and shouldn't be allowed in ComicVine.

@emperorthanos: this applies to you too

The anime is the "main product" the manga is part of the "sub products"

Also Toriyama DOESN'T write the manga, the most credit he receives for it is just "original author". He has more credit in the actual DB super anime than the manga

I don't care about the "movies canon" stuff, I'm just correcting you on saying the manga takes precedence over the series when it's more or less said to be the opposite

Lmao. Oh stop it you joker. Too funny. Just too funny.

@johncena69swag:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

@noobsnowman:

Are we going to conclude Frieza's inferiority compared to his old incarnation then? Because Frieza before RoF clearly has better showings.

I said you use feats logically in DBZ not completely follow them.

This isn't true. The most consistent out of all Dragonball series is actually DBGT.

You are kidding right? Gt is super inconsistent. Baby Vegeta needing multiple blasts to destroy planet. Goku struggling to lift a building. Goku get cut by Glass. Base Turnks beating someone Goku struggled with.

For example, in DBS Beerus states that at base form Goku would be no match for Frieza and in SSJ would only barely beat Frieza, yet SSJ Goku contended with vastly superior opponents such as Perfect Cell, and base Goku in Buu Saga would be much, much stronger than when he was in the Frieza Saga.

I'd actually credit Super's inconsistencies to Akria's poor memory, at one point he nearly forgot what a SSJ3 looks like.

Goku was hiding his power when he was in Base, that's why Beerus said that.. And Beerus didn't say barely beat him.

Wait, you're saying SSJ4 > base ROF Frieza, yet SSJG > SSJ4? Base God Goku matched base Frieza in the anime... I'm confused here.

I was referring to namek Frieza

Here is the truth. There is no way to figure out whether SSJG or SSJ4 is stronger simply because feats are inconsistent. The best way to figure this out is from powerscaling and speculation, which isn't really allowed here because ComicVine specifically demands feats as proof even though Toriyama himself stated that battle power determines the strength of a character. In other words, comparing DBGT to DBS characters is considered spite and shouldn't be allowed in ComicVine.

Umm no SSJG Goku has plenty of feats that put him above SSJ4 Goku. But I'm not going to debate that on this thread.

Toriyama writes the manga while he is not involved in the anime. So whatever he writes is the main canon.

But I am done arguing this .

@johncena69swag:

Agreed, and it's about time you brought this up. Now, Gotenks could have easily stomped Tagoma correct? So it makes no sense for us to say ssj Gotenks = Tagoma and therefore Tagoma = ssj3 buu arc goku. So why exactly do you assume ssj super 17 arc goku = ssj3 baby arc goku? This is almost the exact same scenario. We know super 17 could have stomped him on the spot. Both sides here need to remove the boost in the calculations.

It's not the same thing, Togma isn't anywhere near Gotenkz's level and he didn't punch Gotenkz to another country, Uub tried everything on 17, but he couldn't even budge him, then 17 knocked him out in a few attacks, but Goku on the other hand sent 17 flying to another country and took many attacks from 17 without getting knocked out, i don't see why giving Goku an 8 x power up is wrong, when this same powerup would still place SSJ1 Goku below both base baby and Uub

Tagoma was above ginyu before he spent four months as frieza's punching bag.

Nah, Tagoma was at Zarbon's level prior to the Frieza training and Sorbet clearly stated that Tagoma now has a higher power level than Ginyu

He lost to ssj Gohan yes, but you are underestimating ssj Gohan. Gohan is never stated to be weaker than his teen self. That is a baseless assumption.

It is not baseless, Teen Gohan (cell saga) had no issues with the SSJ1 transformation and was actually an FPSSJ1, this Gohan can't even hold the form and hasn't been training since Buu, there is no reason to assume that his base form somehow became stronger without training and his SSJ1 is still 50 x power since he isn't a FPSSJ1

Tagoma was able to effortlessly rip piccolo's arm off and take his punches without breaking his smile. Piccolo is somewhere around ssj level.

Piccolo was nerfed since the Buu saga, then he got nerfed again in ROF when he tied with a Zarbon level character

Gohan in base was able to at least push him around a little. If Gohan base > piccolo then ssj Gohan = at least 50x ssj. Still well over ssj3 level. And still no match for first form frieza.

Yes, Gohan is obviously more powerful than Piccolo, but we don't know how powerful Piccolo is

Actually, he has shown that he is able to go ssj when mystic, but there is no need to. He was still mystic during BoG arc but he went ssj during the SSG ritual. But this is irrelevant now. Gohan base > piccolo = ssj implies that ssj gohan = 50x ssj = 6.25x ssj3.

SSJ1 Gohan can't be stronger than SSJ3 Goku, it doesn't work because base Goku > Base Gohan and SSJ3 = 8 x SSJ1

Mystic Gohan was Gohan's base. None of this is really relevant now but still, that scan could be interpreted in a number of different ways.

1. Gohan has to power up to reach mystic as a new form.

It's more of a transformation than powering up

2. Gohan has to power up and draw out his strength like he does as a super saiyan. Not a transformation, just a boost he needs to power up to access.

I think Gohan knows the difference between transforming into a Super Saiyan and powering up

3. Gohan needs to power up to the max this one time to activate the final step of the ritual.

He still had to kinda transform to that form against Beerus, so it's not a one time thing

We can now forget about Tagoma. Since that b.s. calculation existed only to prove that the super 17 arc assumed power increase was equally b.s. Now we have a new number. For BOTH sides.

It's not the same thing, Goku is clearly more powerful than he was back in the baby saga, the 8 x multiplier i am applying is actually the bare minimum

Revised Numbers:

Gohan comes in at 6.25x ssj3 instead of the absurd 50x. This changes our final number for ssb to be ssb = 70,625x ssj3. 10% of that is 7,063x ssj3

It's impossible for SSJ1 Gohan to be stronger than SSJ3 Goku, specially that Gohan's base is so weak he can't even hold the transformation

I know you used this ridiculous super 17 arc power increase in your number. This changes your number from 32,000x ssj3 to 4,000x ssj3.

My 8 x multiplier isn't ridiculous, it's the minimum amount of power increase that Goku would have received and it still puts SSJ1 Goku below base baby and MajUub, even though i believe that SSJ1 Goku would stomp the former and defeat the latter

@emperorthanos:

I said you use feats logically in DBZ not completely follow them.

.....I used feats logically to show how illogical using feats is.

You are kidding right? Gt is super inconsistent. Baby Vegeta needing multiple blasts to destroy planet. Goku struggling to lift a building. Goku get cut by Glass. Base Turnks beating someone Goku struggled with.

I said it is least inconsistent, not completely consistent. Obviously there are inconsistencies here and there.

Super has even worse inconsistencies and they are even more embarrassing than GT, my examples were only a handful of them.

Goku was hiding his power when he was in Base, that's why Beerus said that.. And Beerus didn't say barely beat him.

When Goku was directly facing Beerus in his base form just before they fought, he wasn't holding any of his power back.

I was referring to namek Frieza

No need to be captain obvious here, lol.

SSJG Goku has plenty of feats that put him above SSJ4 Goku

He only has one feat that puts him above SSJ4 Goku which is shaking the universe when his fist clashed with Beerus. Other than that, he is not that impressive.

But I'm not going to debate that on this thread.

Ok.

@thedarkpaladin: oh you're referring to that

Anyways, no, it's not irrelevant, from the day it was announced it was announced as a manga ADAPTATION by TOYOTARO. I don't see what's so hard to get about it, he's credited for story and character designs in the anime and is only credited as "original author" for the manga.

Review

A) the manga is said to be an adaptation

B) it's made by toyotaro in the same vein as the RoF manga

C) Toriyama is credited for story and design in the anime, and only as original author for the manga

Conclusion: the anime takes precedence, the manga is the sub product to hint at what's to come in the anime

@mike_fowler: Toriyama writes the story for the manga as well, he just let's Toyotaro handle most of the work as he does with Toei and the anime.

Your point is still irrelevant. It's not up to you to decide what's canon and what isn't when both are written by Toriyama.

@noobsnowman: There is no point in arguing with you if you say stuff like. You can never ever disregard feats no matter what.

@emperorthanos: And that results in cherrypicking. If you use high end feats like Beerus when suppressed against Goku can shake the universe, I equally have the right use low end feats that a character of similar power cannot disintegrate a piece of paper.

@noobsnowman: Except SSJ4 goku has 0 high end feats.

@noobsnowman: But we can have this debate if you want, SSJ4 goku vs SSG Goku. Just not on this thread, as it is off topic

You also need to understand the difference between comedic scenes and serious ones.

@le0nhart:

It's not the same thing, Togma isn't anywhere near Gotenkz's level and he didn't punch Gotenkz to another country, Uub tried everything on 17, but he couldn't even budge him, then 17 knocked him out in a few attacks, but Goku on the other hand sent 17 flying to another country and took many attacks from 17 without getting knocked out,

Punching someone into another country is not an impressive feat at all in the DBU. Considering they are capable of punching through planets and any given character can't weigh more than a ton. These are literally the same scenario. Gotenks > Tagoma but won't go all out because he is obnoxious and wants to drag out the fight. Super 17 is >>> gt ssj goku but won't go all out because if he can absorb ssj4 energy he is pretty much unstoppable. Why is it then fair to assume tagoma is nowhere near gotenks but ssj goku = super 17?

i don't see why giving Goku an 8 x power up is wrong, when this same powerup would still place SSJ1 Goku below both base baby and Uub

Because goku didn't go through any special training or receive any zenkais in between sagas. And if this places him below Uub why is Uub the source of this argument?

It is not baseless, Teen Gohan (cell saga) had no issues with the SSJ1 transformation and was actually an FPSSJ1, this Gohan can't even hold the form and hasn't been training since Buu, there is no reason to assume that his base form somehow became stronger without training and his SSJ1 is still 50 x power since he isn't a FPSSJ1

Gohan's base form still holds remnants of the mystic powerup. That's why it is so strong. You are still assuming he lost every ounce of that power. This was never stated to be true. As for the 50x multiplier, that was originally for namek goku. Not FPSSJ.

Piccolo was nerfed since the Buu saga, then he got nerfed again in ROF when he tied with a Zarbon level character

I don't remember Toriyama ever saying this. But I'm glad you did. How is fair at all for you to say this when it is so easy to say all the main villains were nerfed in gt. Oh, Rilldo has more ki than buu? That's because buu was nerfed to Piccolo level. Oh, Goku beat cell and frieza in base? That's because GT nerfed them. Either Piccolo hasn't been nerfed or all main z villains were nerfed in gt.

SSJ1 Gohan can't be stronger than SSJ3 Goku, it doesn't work because base Goku > Base Gohan and SSJ3 = 8 x SSJ1

You have to understand that the mystic powerup is just that: a powerup. It isn't a new form. He used it against beerus and still went ssj for the ritual. He can't use two transformations at the same time. And since mystic power is just a powerup, that's his strength to keep. The amount that he lost is up in the air since we are never told. But since his base is stronger than Piccolo, we know for sure that he didn't lose it all.

It's impossible for SSJ1 Gohan to be stronger than SSJ3 Goku, specially that Gohan's base is so weak he can't even hold the transformation

Gohan still has some mystic strength left. It's entirely plausible for him to be stronger. Especially since mystic gohan was stronger than super buu. The transformation is more of his skills being a little rusty. Unless you want to argue that kid goten and trunks had base strength higher than him.

My 8 x multiplier isn't ridiculous, it's the minimum amount of power increase that Goku would have received and it still puts SSJ1 Goku below base baby and MajUub, even though i believe that SSJ1 Goku would stomp the former and defeat the latter

It is a little ridiculous. It's high balling at its best. There is no reason for his strength to have increased without training or zenkais.

@noobsnowman:

Read through this it should help you understand a little bit more about how you should debate.

I want you to reread the following three points in particular. These are the most applicable to you.

@emperorthanos:I never said that SSJ4 Goku is the winner. My point is that you don't use feats to prove your point. Also, SSJ4 Goku was able to resist the Revenge Death Ball that was said to be able to contain spells of madness before full physical disintegration, which is highly impressive.

My opinion on DBS vs DBGT is that such a topic should never ever be debated because there is nothing that is neither definite nor conclusive.

@johncena69swag Oh the irony in that post.....

Lol

@le0nhart:

Sorry had something to do.

Anyway he was getting stronger because lunar energy makes Saiyans stronger and she kept pumping it into him

Second ozaru Vegeta was crushing Gku with his bare hands

My arguement still stands Super proved they are higher than GT by breaking GT limits.

Your amusement is the equivalent of this

"Sure your character can lift and destroy thing far more than my character... But scaling shows my character is still superior.

My arguement is still universal character vs Galaxy character. Why is rpthis so hard to understand.

This is stilll going onnnnnn??????

Beerus is a unviverse buster

ssj4 goku is not 1 tenth of a universe buster

Therefore, 10% beerus>ssj4 goku

Plus it was stated that ssj vegitto is perhaps stronger than ssj4 goku, and goku said he didn't think fusion would work against the beerus who stomped him (who was using around 5%)

Oh this :)

@never_give_up:

Am I right? Really the strongest attack in GT was nowhere close to universal.

Yet he says it doesn't matter.

FFS PEOPLE NOW I AM GOING TO POWER SCALE NOW HAPPY FFS

To matche beerus a universe buster goku has to be atleast 200 billions time stronger then goku ssj3 buu arc But that is never going to happen.

I AM NOT compare FEATS TO EVEN BURST A NORMAL GALAXY SSJ4 goku HAS TO BE MILLIONS TIME STRONGER THEN SSJ3 GOKU BUU ARC. SO GT HAS GOT THEIR LIMIT AND HAPPY NOW. AND IF YOU SAY NO THE UNIVERSE ISNT TO BIG WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT IS THE observable UNIVERSE AND THAT IS LIKE 3% OF THE HOLE UNIVERSE HAPPY NOW GT FANS THE GAP IS EVEN GOING TO GET BIGGER AND WHEN BEERUS AND CHAMPA DID FIGHT 2 UNIVERSES WAS IN DANGER SO PLZ AND IF YOU DONT UNDERSTAND HOW BIG THIS UNIVERSE IS AND HOW MANY SOLAR SYSTEME IT EXIST IN A GALAXY LOOK AT THIS.

http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/review/dr-marc-space/solar-systems-in-galaxy.html

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-resources/how-many-galaxies/

PLZ IF YOU DONT UNDERSTAND HOW BIG A GALAXY IS AND A UNIVERSE GO AND READ THEN YOU ARE GOING TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFRENT. AND GT FANS GIVE ME YOUR BEST FEAT AND WE ARE GOING TO COMPARARE IT WITH BEERUS BEST FEAT. BEST FEAT UNDERSTAND BEST NOT LOW END FEATS

Actually goku as super saiyain beyond god is stronger then ssg and ssg can solo GT. that means that goku base now is stronger then SSG O_O grazy power boost goku has gotten some crazy power boost lately. THIS IS SSB.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/0/00/SBG%C2%B2.JPG/revision/latest?cb=20150419001525

@lejon: Stop yelling.

caps was one

But Beerus stomp and make it a spite matche in 0,00000000000001 and i am generous now

@theman44:

Anyway he was getting stronger because lunar energy makes Saiyans stronger and she kept pumping it into him

thre is no anyway, blutz waves make you stronger, so i guess we can get this out of the way now

Second ozaru Vegeta was crushing Gku with his bare hands

They didn't fight, holding a non fighting Goku doesn't make you more powerful and SSJ4 Goku still defeated Golden Ape Baby who is leagues more powerful than Ozaru Vegeta

My arguement still stands Super proved they are higher than GT by breaking GT limits.

Your amusement is the equivalent of this

"Sure your character can lift and destroy thing far more than my character... But scaling shows my character is still superior.

You are either illiterate or have a comprehension level of a 3 year old, i already told you many times that Super >>>>>>> GT via feats, but it's debatable when scaling

@lejon:

You have no proof that current base Goku > SSG