Can Spawn be taken out through physical force or molecular manipulation?
He was once beaten into a pulp by Cy-gor and regenerated in seconds. Also, he can shapeshift his body into different things(soldiers, other people, bats etc) so i doubt molecular manipulation would work on him.
Although, isn't this Plutonian dude star-level or something? he could probably atomize Spawn with his punches.
@etheral_dreams: Thanks for the scans, but I was saying he didn't have star level damage output himself, not that he couldn't tank that level of power. Though that doesn't matter all to much anyways as Spawn is kind of a hax type character and has ways around beating someone other than straight up punches.
Is there any actual proof that, even though Betty's punches were causing Stars to flicker out, that she was actually hitting with the full force of one? A lot of energy could theoretically have been lost in transition.
@highaccuser: You missed the part where she flat out stated she was going to use that force... After that she confirmed she was using it all that time while referencing the previous statements, meaning he actually tanked the attacks for a very prolonged time as well as fighting toe to toe with her. The fact he couldn't tank it anymore could very well be his limit but he did tanked the attacks.
Gallery
All of this happened as soon as she made the claim about her love for him being capable of shatter galaxies and whatnot, after she has a prolonged battle with him she confirms that the force she's using to attack him is indeed getting syphoned from stars lightyears away. For every punch, for every time he holds him down a star system dies, meaning her tanking his blows also consumes a star. After all of this she confirms she's been using that force.
So yeah, he was indeed tanking the attacks considering he presented no visible harm prior and she confirmed she didn't have enough energy to fight him and that she was dragging it from stars. That was a blue giant right there too, so it was indeed a lot of energy dragged to fight him.
@ghostravage: He didn't tank anything very well, I mean she easily had him at her mercy and it wasn't a very long battle IIRC. Her needing to draw energy from stars doesn't mean much considering Bette's body isn't superhuman otherwise.
Also, she wasn't drawing the full force of a star to hit him, she was drawing enough to make a star go out which is a lot less. If what I've read on other threads is true it would only take drawing 1/20th of the star's energy to make it flicker out.
@ghostravage: He didn't tank anything very well, I mean she easily had him at her mercy and it wasn't a very long battle IIRC. Her needing to draw energy from stars doesn't mean much considering Bette's body isn't superhuman otherwise.
Also, she wasn't drawing the full force of a star to hit him, she was drawing enough to make a star go out which is a lot less. If what I've read on other threads is true it would only take drawing 1/20th of the star's energy to make it flicker out.
Now thats is interesting and nerdy shit right there. Good to know though.
@ghostravage: He didn't tank anything very well, I mean she easily had him at her mercy and it wasn't a very long battle IIRC. Her needing to draw energy from stars doesn't mean much considering Bette's body isn't superhuman otherwise.
Also, she wasn't drawing the full force of a star to hit him, she was drawing enough to make a star go out which is a lot less. If what I've read on other threads is true it would only take drawing 1/20th of the star's energy to make it flicker out.
Isn't it what the writer would intend though? I doubt they know that random extra fact.
@ghostravage: He didn't tank anything very well, I mean she easily had him at her mercy and it wasn't a very long battle IIRC. Her needing to draw energy from stars doesn't mean much considering Bette's body isn't superhuman otherwise.
Also, she wasn't drawing the full force of a star to hit him, she was drawing enough to make a star go out which is a lot less. If what I've read on other threads is true it would only take drawing 1/20th of the star's energy to make it flicker out.
Isn't it what the writer would intend though? I doubt they know that random extra fact.
Meh, I think the writer intended for Invincible and crew to be able to bust through a planet, but that feat is criticized at every turn.
@ghostravage: He didn't tank anything very well, I mean she easily had him at her mercy and it wasn't a very long battle IIRC. Her needing to draw energy from stars doesn't mean much considering Bette's body isn't superhuman otherwise.
Also, she wasn't drawing the full force of a star to hit him, she was drawing enough to make a star go out which is a lot less. If what I've read on other threads is true it would only take drawing 1/20th of the star's energy to make it flicker out.
Isn't it what the writer would intend though? I doubt they know that random extra fact.
There's no indication what the writer actually intended, I mean Modeus stated he drew power from distant stars not all the power of distant stars. I doubt he intended it to be a super duper durability feats that gets hyped to transcendent tier like it is on the vine either. Unless there's contradictory evidence in terms of writer intent science is still applicable.
Though Plutonian can manipulate manipulate matter/energy on quantum level, he hasn't shown that he can do so against magic energy or magic-based characters, and as we know magic is a force that ignores the laws of nature, and is beyond the scope of electromagnetic spectrum.
He didn't tank anything very well, I mean she easily had him at her mercy and it wasn't a very long battle IIRC. Her needing to draw energy from stars doesn't mean much considering Bette's body isn't superhuman otherwise.
Of course he did, he was fighting toe to toe with her, the only moments he couldn't tank the attacks anymore was at the end he was pushing her, smacking her and punching back the same way she was doing. It was also a prolonged battle considering she even busted the whole damn city before the fight even started by kissing him and he had no damage whatsoever, you can't also claim the fight was long because there's no time period given. Her body isn't superhuman but his abilties are and the fact she can store that amount of energy inside of her and release her while striking Plutonian makes the feat super human in its own right.
Also, she wasn't drawing the full force of a star to hit him, she was drawing enough to make a star go out which is a lot less. If what I've read on other threads is true it would only take drawing 1/20th of the star's energy to make it flicker out.
She was killing stars, literally, turning them off, no energy at all. Regardless, i don't know where you're dragging those numbers up, but there's a ton of factors to take into account if you're "draining" a star out of its energy. Like, you can blow up the sun by destabilizing the gravitational binding energy instead of actually blowing it gram by gram which is much less. You can also set if off by affecting the core. We have no idea how she was draining the energy but she clearly turned them off completely and whether people accepts it as a stellar feat or not, it is.
Of course he did, he was fighting toe to toe with her, the only moments he couldn't tank the attacks anymore was at the end he was pushing her, smacking her and punching back the same way she was doing. It was also a prolonged battle considering she even busted the whole damn city before the fight even started by kissing him and he had no damage whatsoever, you can't also claim the fight was long because there's no time period given. Her body isn't superhuman but his abilties are and the fact she can store that amount of energy inside of her and release her while striking Plutonian makes the feat super human in its own right.
So he tanked the initial city busting attack, not very impressive when he was rag dolled and curb stomped by her actual hits, and the hits we did see made it very clear his durability didn't hold up at all. There's no reason to assume the initial blast was full force because it wasn't a punch like the rest of her attacks were.
She was killing stars, literally, turning them off, no energy at all. Regardless, i don't know where you're dragging those numbers up, but there's a ton of factors to take into account if you're "draining" a star out of its energy. Like, you can blow up the sun by destabilizing the gravitational binding energy instead of actually blowing it gram by gram which is much less. You can also set if off by affecting the core. We have no idea how she was draining the energy but she clearly turned them off completely and whether people accepts it as a stellar feat or not, it is.
Yes - she was turning them off by drawing enough energy that they flickered out. She did it by draining their gravity (I am assuming this because she could channel Dark Matter apparently and the only other thing in a star to drain is all the nuclear fission which she wouldn't be able to drain with Dark Matter based powers and because he powers were clearly gravity based throughout the series). Shutting off a star that way doesn't require taking all of it's gravity just enough that it can't sustain itself. It wouldn't need to be stellar and shows Plutonian's limits as being outclassed by significantly below star level power.
So he tanked the initial city busting attack, not very impressive when he was rag dolled and curb stomped by her actual hits, and the hits we did see made it very clear his durability didn't hold up at all. There's no reason to assume the initial blast was full force because it wasn't a punch like the rest of her attacks were.
He tanked an attack that was later confirmed to be packing the entire energy of a star, by her own admission nothing short of it was capable of "taming" him. He was ragdolled and curbstomped WAY after they exchanged several punches. His durability DID hold up to certain point and no one here is claiming he can sustain it indefinitely. There's no reason to assume the attack didn't pack that power if she later stated every time she attacked him she was draining a star dead. A punch, a kiss, a kick... It's irrelevant because she could stand up against him by using energy to begin with.
Yes - she was turning them off by drawing enough energy that they flickered out. She did it by draining their gravity (I am assuming this because she could channel Dark Matter apparently and the only other thing in a star to drain is all the nuclear fission which she wouldn't be able to drain with Dark Matter based powers and because he powers were clearly gravity based throughout the series). Shutting off a star that way doesn't require taking all of it's gravity just enough that it can't sustain itself. It wouldn't need to be stellar and shows Plutonian's limits as being outclassed by significantly below star level power.
She clearly stated she was drawing the energy from distant stars with a limitless ranged wormhole, there isn't a single statement nor implication to limit her power just to absorb gravity, hell, she didn't even absorb gravity but had miniature gravity wells and black holes can absorbed everything including light, why assuming she just absorbed gravity? She also stated she wasn't a nuclear reactor while at the same time stating she was drawing the energy from distant stars, hence she couldn't create nuclear fission but she sure as hell could use its energy with a different source. You're speculating right now and you're putting a lot of thought into it, what if she indeed absorbed all the energy off a star instead of just the gravity or just "enough so it can't sustain itself"... To be honest, you're overanalyzing it. There's no need to be stellar but it was stated to be stellar. Plutonian does have limits, who said otherwise? The fact he could stomp the shit out of Superman doesn't mean he's limitless.
He tanked an attack that was later confirmed to be packing the entire energy of a star, by her own admission nothing short of it was capable of "taming" him.
By her own admission it was capable of taming him, not that it was the only thing that would/could.
He was ragdolled and curbstomped WAY after they exchanged several punches. His durability DID hold up to certain point and no one here is claiming he can sustain it indefinitely.
He didn't, he tanked the explosion and whatever energy she gave off kissing him, he didn't handle the actual star level punches anymore than Namor did punches from Thanos (maybe he was a bit better but it boarders on nitpicking). He only has the benefit over Namor of not having other showings painting his durability too little to even survive hits like that.
There's no reason to assume the attack didn't pack that power if she later stated every time she attacked him she was draining a star dead. A punch, a kiss, a kick... It's irrelevant because she could stand up against him by using energy to begin with.
She was talking about her punches there - nothing suggests she was using full power before considering there was a clear difference in how well he could tank it. All he tanked was a city level blast.
She clearly stated she was drawing the energy from distant stars with a limitless ranged wormhole, there isn't a single statement nor implication to limit her power just to absorb gravity, hell, she didn't even absorb gravity but had miniature gravity wells and black holes can absorbed everything including light, why assuming she just absorbed gravity?
Gravity wells and black holes are still gravity. Presumably she could absorb light if she could somehow give herself the properties of a black hole (not really shown) but it wouldn't do anything because she has no way to harness light or anything other than gravity. It was made very clear in the series she had gravity powers given she was grafting mini-gravity wells into bullets before Modeus possessed her.
She also stated she wasn't a nuclear reactor while at the same time stating she was drawing the energy from distant stars, hence she couldn't create nuclear fission but she sure as hell could use its energy with a different source.
She stated she wasn't a nuclear reactor which indicates the fact that she wasn't doing anything nuclear based. She was alluding to stars being the source of her power there and her power is gravity ergo she's drawing gravity from stars.
You're speculating right now and you're putting a lot of thought into it, what if she indeed absorbed all the energy off a star instead of just the gravity or just "enough so it can't sustain itself"... To be honest, you're overanalyzing it. There's no need to be stellar but it was stated to be stellar.
It's not really speculating if there's science to support the notion and nothing in the narration to contradict it. There's nothing wrong with analysis unless the results are really reaching. I mean, we could be overanalyzing it as a durability feat in the writer's eyes. The fact is that with what we have presented, it's a star powered feat which doesn't mean it's star level.
Plutonian does have limits, who said otherwise?
I never said anyone claimed he was limitless just that not dying against those attacks aren't very indictive of his ability to win fights if Namor can do the same with Thanos and Thor Galactus and so on. Surviving attacks is good but overplayed in how important it is.
The fact he could stomp the shit out of Superman doesn't mean he's limitless.
Plutonian can't stomp Superman, he's a very good Superman level character and could win that matchup but it's not one-sided and I haven't really been convinced of that though I'm willing to be. I agreed with you more when you were arguing that Plutonian was only on or slightly above the physical level of Superman and Hulk.
@ghostravage: @highaccuser: I'm not going to pick a side in this debate, but if you're trying to use "real life" science to prove your point, at least use the right words: A star (like our Sun) runs on fusion, not fission, completely different events (fusion being much, much more energetic).
@highaccuser Look man, let's just agree to disagree. The fact she was that powerful wasn't because of Modeus, who also happens to know exactly just like Plutonian's powers work, but the fact he used pills to amp her power to impossible levels. You can't possibly compare what she did previously to what she did to Plutonian, because by Modeus own admission, she was wasting what she could do with her powers, which apparently weren't solely and only about gravity.
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