If a sleep deprived Sokka was able to cut some arrows from a mostly accurate Mai, then Sokka especially with his sword training and higher experience should be able to close the distance by blocking her knifes with his sword, maybe get a lucky tag with his boomerang, and slice her up TV-MA V style.
If a sleep deprived Sokka was able to cut some arrows from a mostly accurate Mai, then Sokka especially with his sword training and higher experience should be able to close the distance by blocking her knifes with his sword, maybe get a lucky tag with his boomerang, and slice her up TV-MA V style.
Sokka can't block a whole dozen of daggers thrown at him. He is never tagging her with a boomerang. And she is defiantly superior is physical strength, just as skilled in h2h and more agile as well as flexible. Let alone being faster. Reacting to instant lightning from Azula in CQ and stuff.
Sokka can't block a whole dozen of daggers thrown at him.
Sokka doesn't need to since the rest could be aim dodged around him. And since an exhausted pre prime Sokka already showed he's faster than Mai's projectiles, he could shit on her accuracy.
He is never tagging her with a boomerang.
Sokka can curve a stealth shot.
He's already surprised Mai from behind in the past.
Sokka's boomerang not only sneaks up on Mai and Ty Lee while getting a direct hit on Mai's weapon, but also successfully comes back to him while he's still moving on Appa.
And she is defiantly superior is physical strength, just as skilled in h2h and more agile as well as flexible.
How is she stronger? Sokka wasn't pushed back by her spring loaded arrow stilettos with he cut them with his club.
And with the space sword, Sokka was able to slice through stone and steel easily. He should be able to slice even her knives like butter.
Sokka manages to chop steel turrets.Even with one hand.Easily slices through rock with a swift slash.Cleaving through a steel airship while not slowing down Sokka and Toph's descent.And effortlessly cuts a steel platform while being thrown with one hand...
And Mai would be at a disadvantage with Sokka's longer range even if she uses her daggers in cqc.
Let alone being faster. Reacting to instant lightning from Azula in CQ and stuff.
Mai was aim dodging and bended lightning has no known speed outside of fan calcs. Who's to say Sokka couldn't aim dodge bended lightning as well since a pre prime Sokka wasn't blitzed by Mai back in Book 2?
Also, Sokka actually has feats of arguably reacting to arrows from a Yuyan Archer without any power scaling unlike Mai.
Gallery
Scan 1: Sokka evading multiple arrows shot from former Yuyan Archer: Vachir, while Sokka was busy pwning the Rough Rhino member Kahchi.
Scan 2: Sokka deflecting an arrow with his boomerang while evading another arrow near his feet which were again both shot by Vachir.
Hell, a pre prime Sokka was also able to react to a Dai Li agent's rock glove by slicing it with his boomerang after it was fired.
I love Sokka as a character however he's not exactly top tier in anything or even mid tier it's his leadership abitilites and tactics that are important
Sokka doesn't need to since the rest could be aim dodged around him. And since an exhausted pre prime Sokka already showed he's faster than Mai's projectiles, he could shit on her accuracy.
If you think Sokka has done anything to suggest he can aim dodge this scale while defelcting some you're missing something:
Sokka can curve a stealth shot.
He's already surprised Mai from behind in the past.
When she didn't even know he was there? Hardly a good feat, let alone applicable in combat. Essepcially when she didn't even fall for anything like it when he threw his boomerang at her before. Heck what feats does he have of doing that to someone other than Book 1 Zuko (which is pure plot because of his slicing cheap shot arrows out of the air)
How is she stronger? Sokka wasn't pushed back by her spring loaded arrow stilettos with he cut them with his club.
She never threw any daggers at him. Only 3 arrows at a time. The daggers have all the feats. It's even visibe when she is fighting Katara. She used ice for the arrows, but had to use wood for the daggers. Or when she is fighting the Kyoshi Warriors. Only her arrows were defelcted, but not her daggers. All that lead me to believe he will have a much harder time with any dagger Mai throws at him, and he will get one shot if she goes for a high volume attack like against the Terra Team.
And with the space sword, Sokka was able to slice through stone and steel like butter. He should be able to slice even her knives like butter.
Effortlessly sending men flying and pinned down on steel walls is above anything Sokka has ever displayed strength wise, even the feats you posted.
And she also has the striking feats to back this strength up. Everyone she has punched were instantly KOed.
And Mai would be at a disadvantage with Sokka's longer range even if she uses he daggers in cqc.
Sure she would, but 1. She is more than flexible, strong and agile enough to hold her own 2. Sokka won't even get the chance to get in CQC 3. Even if he somehow does, she'll get out of the way and fight from range.
Mai was aim dodging and bended lightning has no known speed outside of fan calcs. Who's to say Sokka couldn't aim dodge bended lightning as well since a pre prime Sokka wasn't blitzed by Mai back in Book 2?
I think Sokka could probaly do it but nothing indicates he for sure can, esspecially when every non-bender who has reacted to it, including Mai was portrayed as superior to Sokka in general. Here's it is:
Gallery
In these we see the characters react to explosions. Yet we also get an interesting correlation as we see how fast the explosion is moving for the heroes to react and how fast it is moving in actuality which is much faster.
With this we now can look at how fast lightning is in an actual real perspective.
Here we see the lightning shooting past a mountain range and into the sky. Now the minimum mountain height is 1,000 ft. but as seen in the picture below these mountains are much bigger than the smaller ones at least 3-4 times their size.
Overall these mountains are at least 3,000 feet tall and the distance between the edge of the mountains and the edge of the screen is slightly greater than the size of the mountains (3,000+ feet). So the lightning moves approximately 6,000 feet in this scan. So after looking at this I checked the amount of frames it took for the mountain to touch the sky. It took in total 9 frames. Now this scene has a frame rate of 25 frames per second which means the lightning moved 6,000 feet in 9/25 of a second. This is aproximately 16,667.67 feet per second or mach 14.9. Now this is based off of estimates and has room for error, the mathematical estimate you can find here comes to about mach 12.3 so slightly less than mine. Obviously this isn't lightning speed but it is highly hypersonic.
Feel free to debate me on the calc.
Sokka actually has feats of reacting to arrows from a Yuyan Archer without any power scaling unlike Mai.
Gallery
Scan 1: Sokka evading multiple arrows shot from former Yuyan Archer: Vachir, while Sokka was busy pwning the Rough Rhino member Kahchi.
Scan 2: Sokka deflecting an arrow with his boomerang while evading another arrow near his feet which were again both shot by Vachir.
Vachir is a horrible marksman I can tell you. His feats are what? Being fodderized by Early Book 2 Zuko? If you;re goign to believe in his hype, then you'll have to accept that almost no one can actually dodge his arrows. Let alone Sokka.
Hell, a pre prime Sokka was also able to react to a Dai Li agent's rock glove by slicing it with his boomerang after it was fired.
What speed feats do those gloves have again? Reacting to isntant lightning in CQ is still better than anything Sokka has shown speed wise:
And as for flexibility and agility, Mai has him beaten there too:
@anthp2000: Mai definitely isn't one of the best marksmen in fiction. And Sokka has already handled her projectiles before, a prime Sokka shouldn't have any problems. Meanwhile, Mai has no answer for his sword and he can use trick shots with his boomerang to keep her off balance.
@anthp2000: Mai definitely isn't one of the best marksmen in fiction. And Sokka has already handled her projectiles before, a prime Sokka shouldn't have any problems. Meanwhile, Mai has no answer for his sword and he can use trick shots with his boomerang to keep her off balance.
She definetely is unless you want to lowball. How many people in fiction can you think of that have feats equal or above hitting two moving 1 mm sized targets simultaneously and doing it casually?
Probably Mai's best marksmanship feat to date.
Here, Katara runs and attempts to create a wave. Mai is too fast though, and here's where the impressive thing is. Mai barely even stares at Katara and yet, she throws the daggers to pin down Katara's hands through her handbands, almost simultaneously. You know what we're talking about. Those handbands, that are basically stuck in Katara's hands, leaving Mai about 1-2 mm. target to hit, which is almost no target at all. And yet, Katara doesn't even get a scratch.
This feat turns even more impressive, when you realize that Katara was moving her hands up and down while Mai was throwing the daggers:
Yeah, he cannot handle that:
She has plenty of answers for his sword. Jumping out of the way and getting the fight to range again etc. And up close, a punch of hers is enough to one shot him. His boomerang is quite litteraly useless unless you think he can tag her with it, which would be absurd the least. Sokka is just not remotely on her level.
If you think Sokka has done anything to suggest he can aim dodge this scale while defelcting some you're missing something:
Sokka still already outran her projectiles after they were fired. That means he can time what ever she throws even if it's accurate.
When she didn't even know he was there? Hardly a good feat, let alone applicable in combat. Essepcially when she didn't even fall for anything like it when he threw his boomerang at her before. Heck what feats does he have of doing that to someone other than Book 1 Zuko (which is pure plot because of his slicing cheap shot arrows out of the air)
Mai would underestimate it if she initally dodges it, and Sokka has multiple opportunities since it's consistently stealthy and always comes back.
Sokka stealth shot an earthbender:
Combustion Man:
And technically Book 3 Zuko :P
None of them (as well as Mai or Ty Lee) heard the boomerang until it was too late.
She never threw any daggers at him. Only 3 arrows at a time. The daggers have all the feats. It's even visibe when she is fighting Katara. She used ice for the arrows, but had to use wood for the daggers. Or when she is fighting the Kyoshi Warriors. Only her arrows were defelcted, but not her daggers. All that lead me to believe he will have a much harder time with any dagger Mai throws at him, and he will get one shot if she goes for a high volume attack like against the Terra Team.
The daggers have no known speed besides blitzing fodder while Sokka has the striking strength via space sword and feats of blitzing fodder or reacting to elite fodder (Dai Li agents). Not to mention Sokka also increasing in skill since his first encounter with Mai.
Effortlessly sending men flying and pinned down on steel walls is above anything Sokka has done strength wise, even the feats you posted.
Pretty sure Sokka could pin his space sword or carve through a steel wall through his sword feats as well.
Sure she would, but 1. She is more than flexible, strong and agile enough to hold her own 2. Sokka won't even get the chance to get in CQC 3. Even if he somehow does, she'll get out of the way and fight from range.
Sokka is fast enough to pressure her up close, and Mai doesn't have unlimited ammo in this thread. Strategically, Sokka could wait out her ammo or outsmart her with his boomerang through more subtle means.
I think Sokka could probaly do it but nothing indicates he for sure can, esspecially when every non-bender who has reacted to it, including Mai was portrayed as superior to Sokka in general.
Here's it is:
Feel free to debate me on the calc.
It's not clear cut that Mai's superior when Sokka fared better against her speed wise than literal fodder and Kyoshi warriors.
And Mako and Zuko's explosion feats appear to be deflagration explosions which are subsonic.
Korra's explosion feat appears to be a detonation explosion, but still isn't quantifiable aside from being very low supersonic since we don't know what material it was composed out, on top of being an outlier.
And your calc is just cherry picking frames when the original animators did not set out to draw every pixel + angle consistently.
Plus, aside from us being unable to determine the real time speed of lightning since the speed of the show is relative, there's pretty much nothing else besides this fan calc hinting they're at hypersonic speed...
Vachir is a horrible marksman I can tell you. His feats are what? Being fodderized by Early Book 2 Zuko? If you;re goign to believe in his hype, then you'll have to accept that almost no one can actually dodge his arrows. Let alone Sokka.
You can actually see that the arrow Sokka deflected near his face with his boomerang was accurate. It's simply a showing of speed for Sokka to show he's not fodder.
What speed feats do those gloves have again?
The Dai Li agents surprised and/or stalemated other top tier benders like Katara and Toph, but Sokka was also able to keep up without getting instantly blitzed.
Reacting to isntant lightning in CQ is still better than anything Sokka has shown speed wise:
Like you said, other nonbenders and benders have reacted to instant lightning and it's still aim dodging if it's in one panel.
And as for flexibility and agility, Mai has him beating there too:
Even if he's not as acrobatic, he's still fast enough to react to her and at the very least outlast her ammo similar to how the not so acrobatic Katara can react to Mai.
Sokka still already outran her projectiles after they were fired. That means he can time what ever she throws even if it's accurate.
It definetely doesn't. He cannot dodge this scale while being careful enough to not get tagged. He cannot block it and he cannot dodge it unless you can show me him 1. dodging anything on that scale 2. dodgnig something as accurate
Mai would underestimate it if she initally dodges it, and Sokka has multiple opportunities since it's consistently stealthy and always comes back.
She isn't stupid. Though I do agree:
:P
Sokka stealth shot an earthbender:
Combustion Man:
And technically Book 3 Zuko :P
Fodder, no reaction feats. Not to mention the guy didn't even see Sokka throwing it. He didn't see Sokk throwing it, and he is slower than Mai. lol Ok.
None of them (as well as Mai or Ty Lee) heard the boomerang until it was too late.
They didn't even know Sokka was there. This showing is litterally the definintion of a cheap shot.
The daggers have no known speed besides blitzing fodder while Sokka has the striking strength via space sword and feats of blitzing fodder or reacting to elite fodder (Dai Li agents). Not to mention Sokka also increasing in skill since his first encounter with Mai.
I don't get your point here. Sending all these people flying and stuck on walls made of hard steel is above anything Sokka has in strength. I'm not saying Sokka will get blitzed by them. And like I said, she has other strength feats to look consistent, so you cannot argue about that. He got a sword, let's not overhype it.
Pretty sure Sokka could pin his space sword or carve through a steel wall through his sword feats as well.
It's not the same thing. She raises her hand, and people are sent flying stuck on walls from a distance with tiny daggers. Sokka doesn't have the feats to replicate that.
Sokka is fast enough to pressure her up close, and Mai doesn't have unlimited ammo in this thread. Strategically, Sokka could wait out her ammo or outsmart her with his boomerang through more subtle means.
He cannot do that because he has no answer to high volume attacks in the first place.
It's not clear cut that Mai's his superior when Sokka fared better against her speed wise than literal fodder and Kyoshi warriors.
I don't get what you mean. Mai was consistently portrayed as a superior fighter to Sokka. She was taking on hordes of guards while holding back. Sokka just took 2 of them (non-benders) in the Invasion and that's basically it. She was always pit against notable benders unlike him. She fared better against Toph, she was fighting evenly with water pouch Katara, and even in The Chase, she was taken as a serious threat along with Ty Lee (unlike Sokka) 3 on 3 plus Sokka. So yeah, I do think he probably could replicate this feat, but nothing to be sure of the least.
And Mako and Zuko's explosion feats appear to be deflagration explosions which are subsonic.
Maybe.
Korra's explosion feat appears to be a detonation explosion, but still isn't quantifiable aside from being very low supersonic since we don't know what material it was composed out, of on top of being an outlier.
Low supersonic is still faster than what Sokka has shown. Why is it an outlier? She has also reacted to those spirit lasers.
And your calc is just cherry picking frames when the original animators did not set out to draw every angle consistently.
Animators trying to do it or not doesn't matter since they just did.
Plus, aside from us being unable to determine the real time speed of lightning since the speed of the show is relative, there's pretty much nothing else besides this fan calc hinting they're at hypersonic speed...
Explosions and Spirit beams.
You can actually see that the arrow Sokka deflected near his face with his boomerang was accurate. It's simply a showing of speed for Sokka to show he's not fodder.
He is still not remotely comparable to Mai for any reason. Sure he isn't fodder. I think it was made clear.
The Dai Li agents surprised and/or stalemated other top tier benders like Katara and Toph, but Sokka was also able to keep up without getting instantly blitzed.
Not these Dai Li agents.
Like you said, other nonbenders and benders have reacted to instant lightning and it's still aim dodging if it's in one panel.
Yeah but all of them were portrayed as better than Sokka.
Even if he's not as agile, he's still fast enough to react to her and at the very least outlast her ammo similar to how the not so acrobatic Katara can react to Mai.
Yeah, he's fast enough to keep up and react to her, it's been made clear. But it's a good advantage she has over him. Already explained why he cannot get away from her high end attacks. Katara never dodged her porjectiles. Only person to ever do that was Azula, and she is on another level than Sokka. And btw, Katara's agility and acrobatic abilities >>>> Sokka's as shown in Sozin's Comet and in her dance with Aang.
It definetely doesn't. He cannot dodge this scale while being careful enough to not get tagged. He cannot block it and he cannot dodge it unless you can show me him 1. dodging anything on that scale 2. dodgnig something as accurate
Aside from Sokka already dodging Mai's and Vachir's accurate arrows, the high end dagger feat you showed still only hit one compressed area which Sokka could flip away from.
Fodder, no reaction feats.
He didn't see Sokk throwing it, and he is slower than Mai.
The point is they didn't hear it sneak up on them.
They didn't even know Sokka was there. This showing is litterally the definintion of a cheap shot.
Considering Sokka is a cunning fighter, he can aim for stealthy cheap shots.
I don't get your point here. Sending all these people flying and stuck on walls made of hard steel is above anything Sokka has in strength. I'm not saying Sokka will get blitzed by them.
And like I said, she has other strength feats to look consistent, so you cannot argue about that.
He got a sword, let's not overhype it.
It's not the same thing. She raises her hand, and people are sent flying stuck on walls from a distance with tiny daggers. Sokka doesn't have the feats to replicate that.
The physics of Mai's knifes aren't realistic or even consistent.
When one of her knifes grazed Azula's cloak, the knife just realistically teared her cloth and didn't send Azula flying away.
Sokka's space sword still has consistent feats of abnormal striking strength against metal to suggest they could cleave through her knives.
He cannot do that because he has no answer to high volume attacks in the first place.
Aside from his flips and previous reactions, Sokka reacted to firebending from Azula, and outran high volume Sozin's Comet boosted firebending while carrying Toph.
I don't get what you mean. Mai was consistently portrayed as a superior fighter to Sokka. She was taking on hordes of guards while holding back. Sokka just took 2 of them (non-benders) in the Invasion and that's basically it. She was always pit against notable benders unlike him. She fared better against Toph, she was fighting evenly with water pouch Katara, and even in The Chase, she was taken as a serious threat along with Ty Lee (unlike Sokka) 3 on 3 plus Sokka. So yeah, I do think he probably could replicate this feat, but nothing to be sure of the least.
The point is Sokka can also blitz fodder and keep up with Mai since he wasn't blitzed by her.
Low supersonic is still faster than what Sokka has shown.
It's not a speed Mai has shown either considering it's Korra's feat (on top of Mai already aim dodging the instant lightning).
Why is it an outlier? She has also reacted to those spirit lasers.
Because Korra doesn't have any other detonation explosion or supersonic reaction feats. And those spirit lasers don't have a known speed.
That reminds me, could you refresh my memory if Korra ever reacted to bended lightning?
Animators trying to do it or not doesn't matter since they just did.
Animators aren't always consistent and my point about being unable to definitely know the real time speed of bended lightning still stands.
He is still not remotely comparable to Mai for any reason.
Sure he isn't fodder. I think it was made clear.
It shows how Sokka has experience against mostly accurate marksmen.
Not these Dai Li agents.
The Dai Li agents at Lake Laogai appeared to be comparable.
Yeah but all of them were portrayed as better than Sokka.
I don't see why it's unreasonable considering you admit Sokka isn't fodder and that's it's a possibility for him to aim dodge bended lightning.
Yeah, he's fast enough to keep up and react to her, it's been made clear. But it's a good advantage she has over him.
Already explained why he cannot get away from her high end attacks.
Katara never dodged her porjectiles. Only person to ever do that was Azula, and she is on another level than Sokka.
Sokka also has the advantage to outthink Mai and hold his own at range.
Hilariously, Sokka is still mostly more acrobatic than Katara, so it's still a possibility imo for Sokka to evade when also taking into account his reactions.
Aside from Sokka already dodging Mai's and Vachir's accurate arrows, the high end dagger feat you showed still only hit one compressed area which Sokka could flip away from.
No, no, no. He never dodged them. He deflected them. Moving on.
She was able to control the shot and throw a certain amount of them on the small aquads spread over the place. It's not like she automaticaly covers this area. This just demonstrates how she is able to throw dozens of those stuff simultaneously and accurately. Sokka still has no feats to suggest that.
The point is they didn't hear it sneak up on them.
And they didn't see Sokka throwing it, so idf they had, they could might as well have their attention on that too.
Considering Sokka is a cunning fighter, he can aim for stealthy cheap shots.
That's desperate. In a 1v1 combat situation, Sokka cannot just cheap shot someone like Mai with his boomerang.
The physics of Mai's knifes aren't realistic or even consistent.
When one of her knifes grazed Azula's cloak, the knife just realistically teared her cloth and didn't send Azula flying away.
1. Every time Mai sends someone flying, she pinpoints all the body, Azula won't get sent flying because of 1 dagger near her neck. 2. Notice how she chooses to slice the mask by throwing the dagger half on the cape, and half out of it unlike when she pins clothing of people.
Like I said, everyone Mai has punched was one shot:
Gallery
And she can lift a man and throw him away:
Thosea re all consistent.
Sokka's space sword still has consistent feats of abnormal striking strength against metal to suggest they could cleave through her knives.
Yeah, and Mai's knives also have consistent feats. It's not like that.
Aside from his flips and previous reactions, Sokka reacted to firebending from Azula, and outran high volume Sozin's Comet boosted firebending while carrying Toph.
How does that help? Anyone half decent can do that. Maybe some people think Sokka is fodder, but I don't so you don't need to bring those up for me.
The point is Sokka can also blitz fodder and wasn't blitzed by Mai.
That has nothing to do with reaction speed.
Because Korra doesn't have any detonation explosion other types of supersonic reaction feats. And those spirit lasers don't have a known speed.
They covered the whole Republic City in a second and Korra reacted to them on point blank range. That's consistent with the explosion feat.
That reminds me, did Korra ever react to bended lightning?
No.
Animators aren't always consistent and my point about being unable to definitely know the real time speed of bended lightning still stands.
But you have yet to show me inconciststency. And there's inconsistency in reaction speed in all verses. Even in comics. Casual point blank bullet timers get tagged by super slower things. That's doesn't cancel anything out. Even if for some reason you don't feel like taking this as hypersonic it's still A LOT faster than anything Sokka has reacted to.
It shows how Sokka has experience against mostly accurate marksmen.
Why is this confortation with Vachir such a factor? He just deflected an arrow that's it. Not a big deal. And on the contrary, Mai has experience against swordsmen:
The Dai Li agents at Lake Laogai appeared to all be comparable.
Toph was taking on a bunch of them solo. Even Jet was handling a bunch of them just fine.
I don't see why it's impossible considering you admit Sokka isn't fodder and that's it's a possibility for him to aim dodge.
I never said it's impossible. I just said that Mai is faster than him, which is pretty irrefutable.
Sokka also has the advantage to outthink Mai and hold his own at range.
The term of tactical ability and outhinking in battle is really vague and not applicable imo.
Hilariously, Sokka is still more acrobatic than Katara, so it's still a possibility imo for Sokka to evade when also taking into account his reactions.
First of all, Sokka is not nearly as acrobatic as Katara, that would be false:
Loading Video...
And Katara's reactinos are also above his. Second, I'm just finding it impossible for Sokka to evade something of this scale and as insanely accurate. Simply because he doesn't have the showings and/or feats too.
@anthp2000: One of the best marksmen in fiction??? Hardly. Above average sure but she doesn't even come close to the top. You are honestly overselling Mai here. Sokka has proven able to defelect and deal with projectiles. This isnt a Ranged battle Sokka closes the distance and finishes her off with his sword. Nothing suggests he is not capable of pulling that off.
I mean honestly there is nooooooo way Mai is hypersonic. Thrown weapons struggle to even approach 90mph and you are trying to say shes a bullet timer? lol. You might have had a decent argument if you stuck within her actual powerset.
In summary your lowballing Sokka and beyond Highballing Mai.
No, no, no. He never dodged them. He deflected them. Moving on.
Sokka outran Mai’s projectiles from like 20 ft just to intercept and deflect them. I still don’t see how accuracy is going to affect Sokka, when he has the speed to literally outrun what she throws regardless of relative range even if her knives are relatively faster.
1. Every time Mai sends someone flying, she pinpoints all the body, Azula won't get sent flying because of 1 dagger near her neck.
I mean, even if she pinpoints all of the body areas, the knives should still tear through the cloth given their velocity, but it doesn’t.
Like I said, everyone Mai has punched was one shot:
And she can lift a man and throw him away:
That’s fine strength showings for Mai, but Sokka's striking strength via his space sword is clearly augmented.
I also feel you're overlooking the feat where Sokka casually sliced a steel platform just by throwing his sword.
That has nothing to do with reaction speed.
The original point was that Sokka can keep up with even her knifes Mai since he’s above the fodder Mai typically blitzes.
They covered the whole Republic City in a second and Korra reacted to them on point blank range. That's consistent with the explosion feat.
Aside from the real time speed of the laser still not being explicitly stated, Mai herself hasn’t shown speed comparable to Korra herself via scaling and whatnot.
But you have yet to show me inconciststency. And there's inconsistency in reaction speed in all verses. Even in comics. Casual point blank bullet timers get tagged by super slower things. That's doesn't cancel anything out.
Even if for some reason you don't feel like taking this as hypersonic it's still A LOT faster than anything Sokka has reacted to.
The problem is these instances of lightning or the spirit beam are all just vaguely fast. We’re just assuming it actually takes a second or something for their distance crossed.
Plus, the deflagration explosions aren’t helping make bended lightning speed consistent.
Furthermore, these are feats more closely related to Korra rather than Mai (who still didn’t move faster than bended lightning since she aim dodged Azula’s aim).
Why is this confortation with Vachir such a factor? He just deflected an arrow that's it. Not a big deal.
And on the contrary, Mai has experience against swordsmen:
It’s not a deciding factor, but something in addition to Sokka’s first feat of outspeeding Mai’s accurate projectiles.
Fair enough, although those swordsmen naturally aren’t comparable to Sokka.
Toph was taking on a bunch of them solo. Even Jet was handling a bunch of them just fine.
So? Toph still got surprised, and a pre prime Sokka still held his own against more noteworthy opponents than the typical fodder. Sokka actually faired about as well as Katara.
I never said it's impossible. I just said that Mai is faster than him, which is pretty irrefutable.
The only thing you’re arguing to support this is aim dodging bended lightning when Mai still isn’t genuinely outspeeding the bolt. On the other hand, Sokka still showed the speed to react and better yet outrun Mai’s own projectiles for this battle.
The term of tactical ability and outhinking in battle is really vague and not applicable imo.
It’s applicable for stealth (such as hiding and outsniping Mai in the bamboo forest) and tactics such as making Mai run out of limited ammo.
First of all, Sokka is not nearly as acrobatic as Katara, that would be false:
I meant in an actual combat scenario :P.
Sure I guess Katara would be a better dancer, but I don't recall her tending to evade attacks through flashy flips.
Second, I'm just finding it impossible for Sokka to evade something of this scale and as insanely accurate. Simply because he doesn't have the showings and/or feats too.
Imo, Sokka outspeeding Mai’s projectiles while not at his peak is already enough. I don’t know why you decided to focus on the lightning feat or Mai’s accuracy.
@anthp2000: One of the best marksmen in fiction??? Hardly. Above average sure but she doesn't even come close to the top. You are honestly overselling Mai here. Sokka has proven able to defelect and deal with projectiles. This isnt a Ranged battle Sokka closes the distance and finishes her off with his sword. Nothing suggests he is not capable of pulling that off.
I mean honestly there is nooooooo way Mai is hypersonic. Thrown weapons struggle to even approach 90mph and you are trying to say shes a bullet timer? lol. You might have had a decent argument if you stuck within her actual powerset.
In summary your lowballing Sokka and beyond Highballing Mai.
If you are going to deny everything you better counter my points instead of just saying biased stuff. Otherwise, you won't be taken seriously.
Find me 5 people in fiction that have better accuracy feats than her and then you can talk.
Find a way to counter the lightning calc and then you can talk.
Find a way to prove that Sokka can survive that scale and then you can talk.
Find an excuse as to why she can't just jump out of the way and take this to range again, and then you can talk.
Do you even know what bullet timing means? It's when the character can react and dodge bullets. Not throw bullets...
Do you even understand that lightning is not some random thrown weapon?
In summary, you're the one lowballing over the top here and you're the one who has no idea what they're talking about lol Please learn some basic battle terms and please read the disscusion before you tag me again and talk trash. Once you do all that, you can talk.
Sokka outran Mai’s projectiles from like 20 ft just to intercept and deflect them. I still don’t see how accuracy is going to affect Sokka, when he has the speed to literally outrun what she throws regardless of relative range even if her knives are relatively faster.
20 ft? I think I missed that. Could you elaborate? And if he could cross 20 ft. in less than a second, he would have speedblitzed the entier verse... Accuracy matters because I find it hard to believe Sokka is fast and agile enough to dodge someone as accurate. And for the record, he never outran her daggers. His only feats are against her arrows and with low volume, and even then all he did was block them. Sure he was fast enough to slide on one side and deflect them, but we don't know the distance he covered or when he started doing it.
I mean, even if she pinpoints all of the body areas, the knives should still tear through the cloth given their velocity, but it doesn’t.
You missed my other point. She didn't throw it like that. She threw it half on the cloak, and half off of it resulting into a slice.
That’s fine strength showings for Mai, but Sokka's striking strength via his space sword is clearly augmented.
Not as much as Mai's when she throws those daggers. She litteraly does it effortlessly by raising her hand. They get sent flying, and pinned down on hard steel.
I also feel you're overlooking the feat where Sokka casually sliced a steel platform just by throwing his sword
I'm not overlooking it. It's nice and can content but not on that level.
The original point was that Sokka can keep up with even her knifes Mai since he’s above the fodder Mai typically blitzes.
But I never said she'd blitz him. However I do say he cannot possibly dodge something as high in scale, as accurate and as fast all at the same time, because he doesn't have anything to suggest he can.
Aside from the real time speed of the laser still not being explicitly stated, Mai herself hasn’t shown speed comparable to Korra herself via scaling and whatnot.
We have seen it and it's pretty clear. You have yet to show me why the laser speed doesn't move as fast when we've seen it. Fair enough about Korra and Mai, I didn't say she's as fast. My point is that it wouldn't be inconsistent for Avatar characters to react to these speeds.
The problem is these instances of lightning or the spirit beam are all just vaguely fast. We’re just assuming it actually takes a second or something for their distance crossed.
We calculate it with time frames and actual showings. Whenever lightning and/or spirit beams are thrown freely, and not on someone they are simply like that. Nothing inconsistent about it at all.
Plus, the deflagration explosions aren’t helping make bended lightning speed consistent.
Again, show me inconsistency on lightning speed. I want instances.
Furthermore, these are feats more closely related to Korra rather than Mai (who still didn’t move faster than bended lightning since she aim dodged Azula’s aim).
Not really. Even if you want to assume that Mai aim dodged Azula's lightning there (which you absolutely have no proof for), Mai has reacted to Azula's lightning on the same encounter once again. Let alone the fact that there's no way to dodge Azula's aim with instant lightning simply because it's instant
Mai has all the feats needed to prove she is faster than Sokka. And for the record, arrows were anyways portrayed as a lot slower than lightning. Sokka hasn't done anythingl ike it speed-wise.
It’s not a deciding factor, but something in addition to Sokka’s first feat of outspeeding Mai’s accurate projectiles.
Fair enough, although those swordsmen naturally aren’t comparable to Sokka.
He didn't outspeed them though. If I understand what you're sayign correctly. And Vachir is not comparable to Mai.
So? Toph still got surprised, and a pre prime Sokka still held his own against more noteworthy opponents than the typical fodder. Sokka actually faired about as well as Katara.
Well yeah, she barely got tagged after 5 agents surrounded her. But Katara only had 1 water pouch there, and IIRC she did something more later on. Sokka didn't really do much there, just reacted to a glove.
The only thing you’re arguing to support this is aim dodging bended lightning when Mai still isn’t genuinely outspeeding the bolt. On the other hand, Sokka still showed the speed to react and better yet outrun Mai’s own projectiles for this battle.
She did it twice and you have no proof she aim dodged when she sidestepped it, let alone when she was forced away from the concussive force of the bolt, already been through that. No he didn't. He was barely able to interpet her slower arrows, and even that's vague given how we don't know where he was a moment ago.
It’s applicable for stealth (such as hiding and outsniping Mai in the bamboo forest) and tactics such as making Mai run out of limited ammo.
If he takes the fight into the Bamboo forest I don't know how much of an advantage he'd have considering Mai can richrocket her knives around to tag him with environmental attacks:
I meant in an actual combat scenario :P.
Sure I guess Katara would be a better dancer, but I don't recall her tending to evade attacks through flashy flips.
Well, technically: 1. Katara doesn't need to use agility like that, her bending offers immence mobility 2. Sokka only jumped aronud like that because he thought Piandao, a leagues above him grandmaster, was going to kill him and he had no way of taking him on in a head on fight, so it turned into a chase. When has Katara being to a chase before? Against Azula in Sozin's Comet, where she was jumping around to evade her blasts of fire and lightning. Now, most of the fight happened off-screen, and Katara was only doing that when she was not neart he water source, but some moments do show her essentially doing what Sokka was against Piandao on a more open area against higher scale attacks:
But I don't know where exactly this is going since I don't believe Katara can dodge Mai's attacks more than once or twice on 1 encounter and that she cannot evade her highest volume ones even once.
Imo, Sokka outspeeding Mai’s projectiles while not at his peak is already enough. I don’t know why you decided to focus on the lightning feat or Mai’s accuracy.
I decided to focus on that because it's a significant advantage she has over him (speed) and as for accuracy, Sokka cannot outrun and deflect a dozen of daggers as accurate as them. Without his gear, he cannot dodge it and even with it, he can block some but leave other parts of his body open, resulting into a shot he cannot tank (at least not tank and keep fighting effectively). Gonna put this in bold because it's how I see the fight. Moves like the one against the Terra Team are:
1. Too high in scale 2. Too accurate 3. Too fast Sokka can dodge something of this scale, he can dodge something as accurate, he can dodge something as fast, but he cannot do all those at the same time imo. He hasn't faced anything like it, I mean, never.
20 ft? I think I missed that. Could you elaborate? And if he could cross 20 ft. in less than a second, he would have speedblitzed the entier verse...
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Looking back the distance might be closer to 10-15 ft. Sokka was around Appa and both Katara and Ty Lee moved away before Mai fired her arrows.
Also, there is such a thing as burst of speeds via reaction speed. Zuko briefly outran Comet Azula's bended lightning from like 5-10 ft though I think we can agree Zuko doesn't have travel speed comparable to bended lightning.
Accuracy matters because I find it hard to believe Sokka is fast and agile enough to dodge someone as accurate.
Accuracy from marksmen don't matter against casual bullet timers for example since they could casually bullet time any accurate bullet on there path.
Since an exhausted pre prime Sokka didn't struggle against one of her common attacks, that's essentially why accuracy won't matter against Peak Sokka.
And for the record, he never outran her daggers. His only feats are against her arrows and with low volume, and even then all he did was block them. Sure he was fast enough to slide on one side and deflect them, but we don't know the distance he covered or when he started doing it.
No he didn't. He was barely able to interpet her slower arrows, and even that's vague given how we don't know where he was a moment ago.
I don't think it was ever stated if her arrows or daggers varied in speed.
For all we know the Kyoshi warrior with the sword may have been more skilled than the one who got blitzed via daggers (I only say this because the two Kyoshis used different weapons).
You missed my other point. She didn't throw it like that. She threw it half on the cloak, and half off of it resulting into a slice.
Fair enough, but Mai's projectiles still don't have proper physics. There's no good reason for the knifes not to pass through the cloth from her other feats.
Not as much as Mai's when she throws those daggers. She litteraly does it effortlessly by raising her hand. They get sent flying, and pinned down on hard steel.
I'm not overlooking it. It's nice and can content but not on that level.
Tbh, this whole strength section isn't really relevant as long you can (hopefully) agree that Sokka can cut/deflect her overall projectiles considering Sokka has superhuman striking strength via his sword. He doesn't need to be able to pin men down just to slice her overall projectiles with his sword.
But I never said she'd blitz him. However I do say he cannot possibly dodge something as high in scale, as accurate and as fast all at the same time, because he doesn't have anything to suggest he can.
So what if Mai didn't use that high end 12 dagger throw which Sokka could still flip from away through a dash of reaction speed imo? It's not like she would normally spam only that technique the entire battle.
That's pretty much what you're gauging this fight on, when Mai also relies upon more limited dagger throws and the arrows an exhausted pre prime Sokka dealt with effortlessly.
We have seen it and it's pretty clear. You have yet to show me why the laser speed doesn't move as fast when we've seen it.
I don't know what to say if you think the speed of combat instances in the show are always in real time. There isn't even any fan calcs for the laser. And since Korra didn't react to bended lightning, you can't correlate a vaguely fast bended lightning with a vaguely fast laser with still no known fan calced or official speed. Even Korra's sole detonation explosion feat wouldn't be potentially hypersonic anyways since higher grade detonation explosions have a greater radius than what was shown against Korra.
Fair enough about Korra and Mai, I didn't say she's as fast. My point is that it wouldn't be inconsistent for Avatar characters to react to these speeds.
That isn't really a good comparsion for consistency when Mai and Korra haven't even had interactions to be compare reaction speed or the speed of the laser and bended lightning (while ignoring that not every Avatar character is equal or comparable even in speed).
We calculate it with time frames and actual showings. Whenever lightning and/or spirit beams are thrown freely, and not on someone they are simply like that. Nothing inconsistent about it at all.
Again, show me inconsistency on lightning speed. I want instances.
How about the fact that other characters have struggled with less in the past such as Aang getting dominated by Yuyan Archers in "The Blue Spirit" despite being an arrow timer? Arrows are so below hypersonic speed it's not even funny. Even if Aang had supersonic reactions, he still shouldn't have struggled as much as he did.
And I understand that was back in Book 1 and you think he got massively faster, but Aang was already one of the more agile characters and an airbending master even back then (and imo mostly got better through bending skill of his other elements and experience later on rather than absurd stat boosts outta nowhere). Yet, he was pressured to the point where he got eventually pinned down instead of casually weaving through them. Plus, given how some of his best airbending feats were from Book 1, I think even you can agree Book 1 Aang can outmaneuver and defeat Mai.
Hell, Mai still doesn't have any other arguably hypersonic feats on her own outside of her bended lightning instances.
Not really. Even if you want to assume that Mai aim dodged Azula's lightning there (which you absolutely have no proof for), Mai has reacted to Azula's lightning on the same encounter once again. Let alone the fact that there's no way to dodge Azula's aim with instant lightning simply because it's instant
Mai has all the feats needed to prove she is faster than Sokka.
She did it twice and you have no proof she aim dodged when she sidestepped it, let alone when she was forced away from the concussive force of the bolt, already been through that.
In comics, aim dodging is generally depicted as evading in 1 panel. Here's an example of explicit genuine bullet timing in a comic where we see a bullet fired on a stationary target before they evade the bullet through multiple panels.
Had Mai evading the bolt been depicted like the example above, it would have been explicit timing.
And are you taking the term instant lightning literally?? It's "instant" because there's no excessive charge up, but Mai can still dodge or predict Azula's telegraphed action of pointing her finger like Katara did...
Aside from those overhyped reaction feats, There isn't any other combat speed feats for Mai besides blitzing fodder or getting her projectiles blocked by non fodder protagonists including Sokka.
And for the record, arrows were anyways portrayed as a lot slower than lightning. Sokka hasn't done anythingl ike it speed-wise.
Bended lightning could still be way faster than arrows at a subsonic speed like say 500 mph considering arrows are only around 200 mph.
He didn't outspeed them though. If I understand what you're sayign correctly.
He outpaced them from a distance that wasn't close range via reaction speed.
And Vachir is not comparable to Mai.
Fair enough, but Sokka still has the advantage of potentially reacting to arrows.
Whereas, Mai still doesn't have any feats of directly reacting to arrows or lightning after they're fired.
Well yeah, she barely got tagged after 5 agents surrounded her.
But Katara only had 1 water pouch there, and IIRC she did something more later on. Sokka didn't really do much there, just reacted to a glove.
Sokka and Katara both reacted to a rock glove and got surprised. Either way, pre prime Sokka kept up against elite fodder who can surprise master benders speed wise.
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If he takes the fight into the Bamboo forest I don't know how much of an advantage he'd have considering Mai can richrocket her knives around to tag him with environmental attacks:
Mai couldn't ricochet knifes off the bamboos which would get sliced. Even if she tried to cut down the forest, she'd be wasting her limited ammo.
Sokka would have the advantage to curve a stealthy cheap shot via his boomerang.
Well, technically:
1. Katara doesn't need to use agility like that, her bending offers immence mobility
2. Sokka only jumped aronud like that because he thought Piandao, a leagues above him grandmaster, was going to kill him and he had no way of taking him on in a head on fight, so it turned into a chase.
When has Katara being to a chase before? Against Azula in Sozin's Comet, where she was jumping around to evade her blasts of fire and lightning. Now, most of the fight happened off-screen, and Katara was only doing that when she was not neart he water source, but some moments do show her essentially doing what Sokka was against Piandao on a more open area against higher scale attacks:
But I don't know where exactly this is going since I don't believe Katara can dodge Mai's attacks more than once or twice on 1 encounter and that she cannot evade her highest volume ones even once.
I didn't intend to derail the original topic by bringing up Katara, but if you think Katara can evade a "hypersonic" bolt, I don't get how you think Katara would be unable to evade Mai's attacks when she already reacted to them beforehand.
I decided to focus on that because it's a significant advantage she has over him (speed) and as for accuracy, Sokka cannot outrun and deflect a dozen of daggers as accurate as them. Without his gear, he cannot dodge it and even with it, he can block some but leave other parts of his body open, resulting into a shot he cannot tank (at least not tank and keep fighting effectively). Gonna put this in bold because it's how I see the fight.
Moves like the one against the Terra Team are:
1. Too high in scale
2. Too accurate
3. Too fast
Sokka can dodge something of this scale, he can dodge something as accurate, he can dodge something as fast, but he cannot do all those at the same time imo. He hasn't faced anything like it, I mean, never.
Basically, Mai didn't move faster than bended lightning via reaction speed, and Mai wouldn't solely spam that 12 dagger feat you keep emphasising.
I'm not even trying to say Sokka would stomp, but that he has the means to keep up, mostly deflect and evade her standard projectiles, while also incorporating his stealthy marksmanship skills and cunning tactics besides simply closing the distance and having the cqc advantage for means of a majority
@anthp2000: So uh just for fun. Out of the marksmen I listed who would Mai beat in a similar scenario to this one.
What do you mean? I don't think Mai can beat anyone from the people you listed above and I never claimed that she can. All I said is that she has better accuracy feats and that is absoluetely correct. In overall combat, sure they're better, but not in marksmanship.
Looking back the distance might be closer to 10-15 ft. Sokka was around Appa and both Katara and Ty Lee moved away before Mai fired her arrows.
Sokka was right next to Katara at first. Ty Lee didn't move away. She dodged Katara's water disks and then got right next to her again. While Mai was throwing her arrows, Ty Lee was next to Katara:
Sokka crossed like 3-4 ft. at best. And the 12 dagger feat is around 6-7 ft. coverage.
Also, there is such a thing as burst of speeds via reaction speed. Zuko briefly outran Comet Azula's bended lightning from like 15-20 ft though I think we can agree Zuko doesn't have travel speed comparable to bended lightning.
No, he didn't. He crossed barely 5 ft. to intercept her lightning:
Accuracy from marksmen don't matter against casual bullet timers for example since they could casually bullet time any accurate bullet on there path.
I don't agree at all here. Marksmen are all about hitting super fast targets. Take Harley Quinn for example:
Casual Point Blank Bullet Timer
Yet, Deadshot can tag her. Hell I think Mai can tag her too with knives. Granted none of them can do something to one shot her from the get-go. High end marksmen are all about that.
Since an exhausted pre prime didn't struggle against one of her common attacks, that's essentially why accuracy won't matter against Peak Sokka.
He didn't struggle because he can deflect them, but there are high volume attacks that he cannot deflect. Him crossing 3 ft to intercept them or something doesn't matter. Mai was aiming for Katara and Sokka got in the way. If she was aiming for Sokka himself, I doubt he would be able to evade the arrows esspecially when sleep deprived.
I don't think it was ever stated if her arrows or daggers varied in speed.
No, but her daggers' speed feats are superior. Of course I never calculated them so I could be wrong. I guess I'll have to look that up. But as of now, direct showings say otherwise.
For all we know the Kyoshi warrior with the sword may have been more skilled than the one who got blitzed via daggers (I only say this because the two Kyoshis used different weapons).
They didn't use different weapons:
Both had a kantana, it's just that the second one used it but she was also able to draw and use it AFTER the arrows were thrown:
Fair enough, but Mai's projectiles still don't have proper physics. There's no good reason for the knifes not to pass through the cloth from her other feats.
Avatar physics mate, I don't know.
Tbh, this whole strength section isn't really relevant as long you can (hopefully) agree that Sokka can cut/deflect her overall projectiles considering Sokka has superhuman striking strength via his sword. He doesn't need to be able to pin men down just to slice her overall projectiles with his sword.
I didn't say that, I think that he can deflect and maybe slice her daggers just fine. The strength section was mostly brought up for h2h in this fight.
So what if Mai didn't use that high end 12 dagger throw which Sokka could still flip from away through a dash of reaction speed imo? It's not like she would normally spam only that technique the entire battle.
He cannot slip away from something as fast thrown at him by someone as insanely accurate. He doesn't have the feats to. She cannot spam that technique because I doubt she carries that many daggers, but my point is that she doesn't need to spam it. All she needs to do is throw it once and it's over. Sokak has no answer to it.
That's pretty much what you're gauging this fight on, when Mai also relies upon more limited dagger throws and the arrows an exhausted pre prime Sokka dealt with effortlessly.
Yea he can deal with her usual attacks but she can simply go for that one attack at some point, and when she does it's over.
I don't know what to say if you don't think the speed of the show is actually real time. There isn't even any fan calcs for the laser. And since Korra didn't react to bended lightning, you can't correlate a vaguely fast bended lightning with a vaguely fast laser with still no known fan calced or official speed. Even Korra's sole detonation explosion feat wouldn't be potentially hypersonic anyways since higher grade detonation explosions have a greater radius than what was shown against Korra.
The laser beam covered Republic City in seconds. How much raidus do hypersonic explosions have? The radius of Korra's eplosion was just fine.
That isn't really a good comparsion for consistency when Mai and Korra haven't even had interactions to be compare reaction speed or the speed of the laser and bended lightning (while ignoring that not every Avatar character is equal or comparable even in speed).
I don't get your point here. All I said is that explosion and laser reaction feats prove consistency over lightnign reaction speed imo.
How about the fact that other characters have struggled with less in the past such as Aang getting dominated by Yuyan Archers in "The Blue Spirit" despite being an arrow timer? Arrows are so below hypersonic speed it's not even funny. Even if Aang had supersonic reactions, he still shouldn't have struggled as much as he did.
1. I already gave my opinion on High End Marksmen vs Very Fast People, I don't think it's farfetched at all for a whole group of Yuyan Archers that strike arrow on arrow on a bullseye to tag Aang. 2. The context is huge and extremely significant here. Aang was not only slowed down running inside the water of a swamp, but was also looking for frogs, not tryign to evade and even then, he dodged plenty of arrows.
And I understand that was back in Book 1 and you think he got massively faster, but Aang was already one of the more agile characters and an airbending master even back then (and imo mostly got better through bending skill of his other elements and experience later on rather than absurd stat boosts outta nowhere). Yet, he was pressured to the point where he got eventually pinned down instead of casually weaving through them.
I don't think he got massively faster, but he got massively more experienced and a lot faster and let's not avoid the serious context of the scene.
Plus, given how some of his best airbending feats were from Book 1, I think even you can agree Book 1 Aang can outmaneuver and defeat Mai.
I don't think that's debatable, and I don't know why you said "even you". Unless he fights like he faught Jet in Episode 4, no non-bender is beating him. But that;s pretty irrelevant on Sokka vs Mai.
Hell, Mai still doesn't have any other arguably hypersonic feats on her own outside of her bended lightning instances.
Mai has what? 7 fight scenes? And 4 of them are against fodder. The other ones are with Azula, Katara, Aang and Toph. From them, only Azula can use anything as fast and Mai reacted to it twice.
In comics, aim dodging is generally depicted as evading in 1 panel. Here's an example of explicit genuine bullet timing in a comic where we see a bullet fired on a stationary target before they evade the bullet through multiple panels.
Had Mai evading the bolt been depicted like the example above, it would have been explicit timing.
I am a geek with Batman and his villains DC Comics and I don't recall even one instance when something was portrayed like that. And I'm sure the Avatar comics do not exactly follow the Marvel logic. Esspeically when we've seen the characters reacting to so many things and we call it "timing". Including Sokka vs Vachir.
And are you taking the term instant lightning literally?? It's "instant" because there's no excessive charge up, but Mai can still dodge or predict Azula's telegraphed action of pointing her finger like Katara did...
Azula was not going for lightning there. She often points her fnigers like that to throw fire blasts. She didn't show the ability to instantly generate lightnign like in the comics, and lightning comes out a lot faster than fire. No one has time for aim dodging instant lightning.
Aside from those overhyped reaction feats, There isn't any other combat speed feats for Mai besides blitzing fodder or getting her projectiles blocked by non fodder protagonists including Sokka.
Blitzing fodder is good when more than half of your fights are against fodder and the others are brief encounters with high master benders. What combat speed feats does Sokka have exactly? Trading blows evenly with Katara (even with just a water pouch) is better than anything Sokka has shown combat speed-wise.
Bended lightning could still be way faster than arrows at a subsonic speed like say 500 mph considering arrows are only around 200 mph.
I don't think the gap is huge enough to give such huge trouble to casual arrow timers.
He outpaced them from a distance that wasn't close range via reaction speed.
1. Mai was not aiming for him 2. The distance is not impressive at all
Fair enough, but Sokka still has the advantage of potentially reacting to arrows.
Whereas, Mai still doesn't have any feats of directly reacting to arrows or lightning after they're fired.
Already been through that.
Sokka and Katara both reacted to a rock glove and got surprised. Either way, pre prime Sokka kept up against elite fodder who can surprise master benders speed wise.
And Mai can react to Master Benders and trae blows with them straight up. The Dai Li are only able to surprise via large numbers and cheap shots. Everyone can react to Dai Li gloves, the feat is not even worth mentioning.
Mai couldn't ricochet knifes off the bamboos. Even if she tried to cut down the forest, she'd be wasting her limited ammo.
She can richrocket them on the ground.
Sokka would have the advantage to curve a stealthy cheap shot via his boomerang.
Given how he made the mistake to step on branches and leaves before, he won't do so. Also, I suppose you picture him behind a bush or something? Once Mai knows he's there, she can snipe him while he doesn't even know she was aware of him.
I didn't intend to derail the original topic by bringing Katara, but if you think Katara can evade a "hypersonic" bolt, I don't get how you think Katara would be unable to evade Mai's attacks when she already reacted to them beforehand.
Already covered the marksmen vs fast people. I said Katara can evade them once or twice, but not more, and she can certainly not evade her high end volume ones.
Basically, Mai didn't move faster than lightning via reaction speed, and Mai wouldn't solely spam that 12 dagger you keep emphasising.
She doesn't need to spam it. Sokka cannot work around anything like it. You showed nothign to suggest he can because there's nothing to suggest he can.
I'm not even trying to say Sokka would stomp, but that he has the means to keep up, mostly deflect and evade her standard projectiles, while also incorporating his stealthy marksmanship skills and cunning tactics besides simply closing the distance and having the cqc advantage for means of a majority
Or Mai throws 12 dagers and it's over. It's much more simple and definetely mroe applicable for a majority.
@anthp2000: I won't reply to every little thing out of redundancy or or irrelevance, but I will reply to things of notice and agree to disagree at this point.
Sokka was right next to Katara at first.
Ty Lee didn't move away. She dodged Katara's water disks and then got right next to her again. While Mai was throwing her arrows, Ty Lee was next to Katara:
Sokka crossed like 3-4 ft. at best. And the 12 dagger feat is around 6-7 ft. coverage.
But the video I posted already showed Katara moving away from Appa after Ty Lee tried to pressure point her. The distance still appeared to be around 10-15 ft to me even though we can see the ground isn't consistent in the next frames.
No, he didn't. He crossed barely 5 ft. to intercept her lightning:
That was my accident before I double checked the scene. I already edited my post beforehand.
I don't agree at all here. Marksmen are all about hitting super fast targets. Take Harley Quinn for example:
Yet, Deadshot can tag her. Hell I think Mai can tag her too with knives. Granted none of them can do something to one shot her from the get-go. High end marksmen are all about that.
You're misusing the term bullet timing. Bullet timing means evading a bullet after it's fired. The instance you posted with Harley Quinn is just casual aim dodging from someone who isn't a master marksman.
Here's another genuine bullet timing feat done more casually from a Luther Strode comic.
Here's an actual casual bullet timing feat from King Bradley. Note how he jumps in front and out of the machine gun bullets after they were fired while advancing.
He didn't struggle because he can deflect them, but there are high volume attacks that he cannot deflect.
Him crossing 3 ft to intercept them or something doesn't matter. Mai was aiming for Katara and Sokka got in the way. If she was aiming for Sokka himself, I doubt he would be able to evade the arrows esspecially when sleep deprived.
I don't think it was ever stated if her arrows or daggers varied in speed.
No, but her daggers' speed feats are superior. Of course I never calculated them so I could be wrong. I guess I'll have to look that up. But as of now, direct showings say otherwise.
Having the speed to deflect them still means he can move out of the way via a dash. Since the speed between the two projectiles weren't wasn't explicitly stated, I don't feel gauging their speed off of the Kyoshi warriors is enough.
They didn't use different weapons:
Both had a kantana, it's just that the second one used it but she was also able to draw and use it AFTER the arrows were thrown:
Yeah, but one only has feats holding fans while another has feats with only a katana.
It's also worth noting that in your gif, Mai's 6 arrows inconsistently turned into like 3 arrows when the Kyoshi warrior deflected them. This suggests to me that Sokka can still deflect more than 3 arrows/knifes.
I didn't say that, I think that he can deflect and maybe slice her daggers just fine. The strength section was mostly brought up for h2h in this fight.
Except they aren't going to be fighting without weapons in cqc, so I think my point about Sokka having the range advantage up close still stands.
I don't get your point here. All I said is that explosion and laser reaction feats prove consistency over lightnign reaction speed imo.
It's just that there aren't any direct instances to accurately gauge how the lasers and lightning compare with each other while there speed is still vague. Imo, it still feels like an assumption.
How much raidus do hypersonic explosions have? The radius of Korra's eplosion was just fine.
It varies.
This is the radius of a 100 ton charge Mach 20 TNT explosion for example.
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And the size of the explosions can increase in greater quantities of the charge, while Korra's explosion was more minimal.
Anyways, radius isn't everything. Korra's explosion feat is still around the low supersonic range at bare minimum since it's material isn't known, and material is relevant in terms of determining the speed of detonation explosions.
1. I already gave my opinion on High End Marksmen vs Very Fast People, I don't think it's farfetched at all for a whole group of Yuyan Archers that strike arrow on arrow on a bullseye to tag Aang.
2. The context is huge and extremely significant here. Aang was not only slowed down running inside the water of a swamp, but was also looking for frogs, not tryign to evade and even then, he dodged plenty of arrows.
Yes, but if Aang was hypersonic or even supersonic in reaction speed, he should perceived multiple of the rapid fire arrows much more casually like how King Bradley reacted to the machine gun bullets.
I don't think that's debatable, and I don't know why you said "even you". Unless he fights like he faught Jet in Episode 4, no non-bender is beating him. But that;s pretty irrelevant on Sokka vs Mai.
It means Book 1 Aang who struggled with more numerous arrows is faster than Mai who doesn't have hypersonic reaction speed.
I am a geek with Batman and his villains DC Comics and I don't recall even one instance when something was portrayed like that. And I'm sure the Avatar comics do not exactly follow the Marvel logic. Esspeically when we've seen the characters reacting to so many things and we call it "timing". Including Sokka vs Vachir.
It's a trend followed in western comics and manga. Sokka vs Vachir also mostly qualifies as aim dodging, but Sokka deflecting the arrow at his face is arguably timing imo only because we see it's accurate.
When Mai evaded Azula's bended lightning, the bended lightning is pointed downwards.
Blitzing fodder is good when more than half of your fights are against fodder and the others are brief encounters with high master benders. What combat speed feats does Sokka have exactly? Trading blows evenly with Katara (even with just a water pouch) is better than anything Sokka has shown combat speed-wise.
Blitzing fodder nonbenders and benders as well? Mai never tagged or really won against a fully refreshed Katara.
Azula was not going for lightning there. She often points her fnigers like that to throw fire blasts. She didn't show the ability to instantly generate lightnign like in the comics, and lightning comes out a lot faster than fire. No one has time for aim dodging instant lightning.
We can't even gauge the actual speed for it's generation in the single panel. Saying it's instant is too literal when Mai could have still seen Azula raising her hand beforehand.
And Mai can react to Master Benders and trae blows with them straight up.
Sokka also reacted to firebending from Azula like I showed beforehand, and Toph, Katara, Azula, and Aang still countered her daggers while Mai got owned by Azula in a more direct fight.
She can richrocket them on the ground.
Fair enough, though she's technically never done so.
Given how he made the mistake to step on branches and leaves before, he won't do so.
He won't have to move while aiming his boomerang.
Also, I suppose you picture him behind a bush or something?
I was picturing him behind some bamboo sticks while deep in the forest.
Once Mai knows he's there, she can snipe him while he doesn't even know she was aware of him.
And the same could technically be said for Sokka's sniping.
You're misusing the term bullet timing. Bullet timing means evading a bullet after it's fired. The instance you posted with Harley Quinn is just casual aim dodging from someone who isn't a master marksman.
Here's another genuine casual bullet timing feat from a Luther Strode comic.
Here's an actual casual bullet timing feat from King Bradley. Note how he jumps in front and out of the machine gun bullets after they were fired while advancing.
Fair enough, I didn't know then. However, Mai has those 2 feats, and she was able to match Katara and evenly trade blows with her in Omashu. Katara HAS lightning timing feats from the show. And I still doubt anything in Avatar comics can be called "timing" then. I don't think it's anything safe to assume what you claim.
Having the speed to deflect them still means he can move out of the way via a dash. Since the speed between the two projectiles weren't wasn't explicitly stated, I don't feel gauging their speed off of the Kyoshi warriors is enough.
No, it definetely doesn't because Sokka cannot just flip away from something as accurate. He isn't fast enough and he isn't agile enough. He isn't Azula, who even then was tagged 1/3 times by 1 single dagger. Sokka isn ot evading any dozen of them thrown.
It's also worth noting that Mai's 6 arrows inconsistently turned into like 3 arrows when the Kyoshi warrior deflected them. This suggests to me that Sokka can still deflect more than 3 arrows.
He can deflect more than 3 arrows since the Kyoshi Warrior did, now how does that help? The feat against the Terra Team coves all of his body. But there's more. When Mai attacked the first time we saw her, she threw a dozen of arrows that directly covered Aang's body size:
If Mai stops throwing 3 arrows at a time like she did against him there's no way he is not getting hit tbh. And 1 arrow or dagger at any part of the body means insant loss.
It's just that there aren't any direct instances to accurately gauge how the lasers and lightning compare with each other while there speed is still vague. Imo, it still feels like an assumption.
It will always be an assumption unless we directly ask the creators "How fast is bended lightning?" However, it's a completely grounded assumption that people like to call out as inacurrate and as flase when they really do no every try to speicifcaly counter any points.
This is the radius of a Mach 20 TNT explosion.
Anyways, Korra's explosion feat is still around the supersonic range since it's material isn't known and material is relevant in terms of determining the speed of detonation explosions.
I don't know exactly how much raidus it'd have but given how the explosion happened underground I'd say it's pretty good.
Yes, but if Aang was hypersonic or even supersonic, he should perceived multiple of the rapid fire arrows much more casually like how King Bradley did.
Sure, if he was trying to evade them instead of picking up frogs while nearly ignoring them.
Blitzing nonbender and bender fodder as well? Mai never tagged or really won against a fully refreshed Katara.
I know but she was fighting evenly with a water pouch Katara. That's above Sokka's combat speed feats.
It's a trend followed in western comics and manga. Sokka vs Vachir also mostly qualifies as aim dodging, but Sokka deflecting the arrow at his face is arguably timing imo only because we see it's accurate.
When Mai evaded Azula's lightning, the lightning is pointed downwards.
Sokka also reacted to firebending from Azula like I showed beforehand, and Katara and Aang still countered her daggers while Mai got owned by Azula in a more direct fight.
Everyone can react to a fireball. It's not a big deal. Katara conutered her daggers but couln't beat ehr with just 1 water pouch. Sure, she got owned but that doesn't say much given 1. the emotion and manipulation arguably involved 2. Sokka would get one shot by Azula
Fair enough, though she's technically never done so.
And Sokka never hides behind bushes waiting to throw his boomerang.
He won't have to move while aiming his boomerang.
He will move to hide.
I was picturing him behind some sticks.
Sokka hiding behind sticks is not going to help unless his opponent is blind.
And the same could technically be said for Sokka's sniping.
The difference being that if Mai snipes him it's a one shot, whereas if Sokka snipes her it's not a big deal. Overall, there are even more than just the 12 dagger throw that Mai can do. Like the 12 arrow throw. Sokka has no way of deflecting either of them, and he could barely be able to dodge the arrow one. Mai was clearly meant to be his superior and feats speak for themselves. Sokka might be able to block 3 arrows at a time, but he can't do much. That's the actual reason I have problems with your idea of the fight.
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