Sauron vs. Smaug

Why not take away Smaug's wings and call it a day?

Sauron is too powerful for Smaug. He has far more impressive feats.

Sauron should win.

Sauron with ease

Sauron.

Sauron

What can Sauron do to him lol? Smaug fries him.

• Yeah, Sauron's mace absolutely strong, but will it work on Smaug's armor ? Sauron has to make some spells on Smaug.
• On the other hand, Smaug's fire can destroy power rings, but not the one ring. So Smaug has to fight with claws and teeth for destroying Sauron.

Sauron was defeated by f***ing giant dog in the first age. I know it was ringless Sauron but still it was f***ing giant dog lol. Then he barely defeated Elendil and Gil Galad and was defeated when mortal Isildur cut off his finger. Smaug would absolutely destroy him. But there is a twist. If Sauron is in his shadow form then I say it's stalemate.

@bigcimmerian: There is a reason Morgoth made Sauron his chief lieutenant and not a Dragon.

There is a reason why Morgoth was using dragons as his main attack force instead of Sauron. They were capable of wiping out entire armies. And Sauron was defeated by giant dog lol.

Sauron could easily melt his mortal form, but not the one ring.
I'd give Smaug the advantage in just about everything, maybe not magic.

Sauron curbstomp.

How?

@bigcimmerian: Because there was only one Sauron and many winged dragons. Why would Morgoth throw away his most valuable asset when he has an entire army at his disposal? The dragons were a great force but Morgoth's army was still defeated. If I remember correctly, Sauron lasted longer than Ancalagon who was the most powerful dragon. And if you are referring to Huan as the 'big dog' he was a very good fighter himself and Sauron was not as powerful then as he became during the late Second Age.

The reality is, Sauron has far better feats than Smaug which is mainly why he wins.

0_______________0

Sauron ftw

Also it is stated that Huan was big as a small house. And i agree that he was a very good fighter, IIRC he killed the strongest werewolf.

Smaug is 10 times bigger than house.

But is he fast as Huan on land ? I doubt.

Try 200x

Hate it when OP's take sides. Pls don't make threads if you have made a decision/biased

Yes, of course he is. If you saw ending scene of Hobbit DoS, you'd know that. Of course if Smaug is the same size as Huan, dog would probably be faster, but Smaug's size gives him the edge in speed too, as he can cover more space with one step lol.

Lol. take it easy... I didn't say Sauron stomps. And i doubt he can win.

I said Huan was not a regular dog. And Sauron was not at his strongest form without ring.

You brought down Smaug's speed, gave feats that added to Sauron's side, and added stats that benefited Sauron's side.

Sauron was not "his most valuable asset".
And who were they defeated by? Anybody that wouldn't of had stomped Sauron? Thought so.
I could last longer than a tank by hiding: there is no credit to that feat.
You only listed one feat: him "lasting longer". Which in itself is misleading. Try wiping out an entire nation effortlessly. Try smashing through the gates of Erebor - quite easily - by just running at them. Try surviving molten gold. Any dragon fire feat would apply to Smaug. Any dragon durability, strength, and speed feat would apply to Smaug; bar any specifically stated to be special feat: A.K.A. almost none.

Then i take it back :)

@darkbiscuit: If you don't know who won the War of Wrath or who defeated the dragons then your points are invalid. The winged dragons were taken down by Earindil who was the father of Elrond. He also had help from the eagles as well so actually Sauron defeats them quite handily due to the amount of creatures he had at his service. I don't believe a debate over the War of Wrath is necessary anyway because little is known of it. Let it be known that Sauron was alive at the time of The War of Wrath which makes him more experiencend than Smaug anyway, I relate to experience because TWoW was the greatest war that ever took place in Arda. And the only feats Smaug has is capturing Erebor and destroying Dale. The fact that Sauron lay hidden from some of the wisest and most powerful Maiar of the Third Age is a great enough feat itself. He almost conquered all of Middle Earth in the second age until he was pushed back by the elves and numenoreans IIRC. He even managed to infiltrate the Numenoreans and turn some of them to worship Morgoth until he attempted to invade and was finally defeated by Isildur. Considering he managed to literally attach himself to the one ring means he must have had an incredible amount of dark magic at his disposal.If these were the movie versions then I would agree that Smaug takes it. But due to the fact Sauron accomplished far more than Smaug means that he takes it. I hate to relate to the movie, but during the events of the first hobbit film, note how gandalf says something along the lines of 'there is something far beyond the evil of smaug at work'. Whatever he said it was a clear reference to Sauron or the 'Necromancer' if you prefer, I would be happy for someone to correct me. This quote itself means the hobbit movies supports my argument, as does the EU side of Tolkien's world. You might consider doing research on Sauron before dismissing him.

Sorry for the long comment but I would rather get my point across than flood the thread with hundreds of posts.

@razul

you can analyse both movies and books.

@erkan12: I don't think he killed the strongest werewolf because I think that was actually Sauron himself who took the form of the greatest werewolf ever seen. Unless you meant the greatest werewolf before Sauron. Though Huan did manage to defeat Sauron nevertheless.

For the guy who said '' OMFG SAURON IS MAIA, MAIAS ARE GODS HE WINS " Radagast the Brown is also Maia. Would he stand a chance against Smaug?

@bigcimmerian: You realise not all the Maiar are on the same level -.- If it were true, why didn't Radagast fight Sauron? Or why didn't Gandalf stalemate the Witch King of Angmar? All these beings are Maiar...

Yes, Huan killed (and was killed in the process, Tolkien-style) the largest werewolf of Arda, Carcharoth. Before that, Sauron disguised himself as a large wolf, knowing that Huan's destiny was to be killed by the largest wolf but it did not work.

Witch King is not Maia.

To be fair OP said Sauron can use his army.

Someone needs to come up with the definitive hierarchy of power in the tolkien-verse. On one hand Sauron is basically set up to be the main villain of the LOTR era and is meant to be this all powerful motherf*cker. Yet Gandalf isn't scared to face up to him, and even personally guarded his.. crystal ball I guess. And then add in the fact that Gandalf wouldn't even attempt to breath the same air as Smaug unless he was planning to get roasted. Just doesn't make sense.

On the level that this guy is saying: It'd be a mismatched stomp. Within the limits of it not being a stomp army: Smaug wins.

@darkbiscuit: I can use the feats of the armies Mordor because the OP says Sauron can use his army for help. I know you didn't say anything on the War of Wrath however this is an underrated feat of Sauron's. The fact that Sauron survived a war in which millions were killed is a massive achievement. The dragons did not survive and Sauron did. Ancalagon, who was far bigger and more powerful than Smaug did not survive. I'm not dismissing the winged dragons, they were an awesome power in Middle Earth. And I think the fact that Sauron almost conquered Middle Earth is a great feat. He went far beyond the great cities like Minas Tritith perhaps Erebor but i'm not sure that Erebor was around at that point. It wouldn't matter anyway because the dwarves fled from him into the Misty Mountains. And forging the ring was a personal feat of Sauron's. That kind of dark magic had not been seen since the time of Morgoth. The quote I referred to is at the part where the Dwarves visit Rivendell and Gandalf meets with Saruman and the other council members.

So actually, I have listed that Sauron manipulated the Numenoreans, forged a powerful ring, raised an army of thousands far beyond the number of any elven or dwarven army. And if that is not convincing enough, Sauron transformed into the greatest werewolf ever seen, but he was defeated by the 'big dog' as people call Huan here. Several times I believe he led Morgoth's army to victory, he even convinced the Numenorean King to attack the Valar. The supreme god, Eru, had to intervene to stop Sauron from succeeding, I think this is more impressive than anything Smaug has ever done as Eru never stopped Smaug from taking the Lonely Mountain. But I guess you are entitled to believe otherwise.

@bigcimmerian: I believe he is. I apologise if I am incorrect. But I think I proved my point about the whole Maiar thing.

@bigcimmerian: My bad you are correct, but you get my point about the whole Maiar thing. If all the Maiar were the same strength, Radagast could stalemate Sauron which sounds ridiculous.

@razul: Who said that they were? o.O

@darkbiscuit: I admit that nobody said that, but it was implied to a great extent.

That Maiar are all the same strength?!?!?!

They are not all the same strength, but I've seen people saying that Sauron wins cause he's Maia. Morgoth was Valar when he ran away from Ungoliant.

@bigcimmerian: Ungloliant had become stronger at that time and Morgoth was weaker which is why Gothmog and his friends saved Morgoth's ass.

Sauron lost for a reason:

Prophecy stated that Huan was to be defeated by the greatest wolf. Sauron, knowing the prophecy, took a huge wolf form, larger than any known to the point. But the prophecy applied to carcharoth of the red maw, who was unborn at the time. The defeat was a plot point... not because he was weaker than huan.

And how does running away from ungoliant change a lot? Ungoliant is one of the oddities of Arda, like tom bombadil (not saying they are equally strong), not even the vala are sure of her origins. She's not from the world and Her unlight was strong enough to bewilder the vala chasing her and melkor.

Melkor had just finished his battle with feanor, while ungoliant was massively amped from drinking wells of varda and sap of the two trees (which made the freaking sun) It's not like she was directly stronger than melkor.. he had gotten weaker at the time.

Edit: Uh oh. I forgot my actual point in correcting this 0_0

All excuses.

All excuses. It doesn't matter if Prophecy said that. If he's as powerful as you people make him to be he should be capable of at least stalemating giant dog. And Prophecy was that Huan should die in battle with greatest wolf, not that he would lose the fight against him. Defeating someone doesn't mean you should to kill him, if Sauron proved superiority to Huan, then giant dog would run away, so the prophecy still stands that he should die in the fight against greatest wolf.

@bigcimmerian:

All excuses? How? It happened because it was meant to happen. Why exactly would sauron spare huan? He took the form fully intending to kill huan (who had just killed all his pets lol), but couldn't because the prophecy applied to someone else. Easy as that.