Saber vs Darth Vader

Title says all.

-Darth Vader sword cannot cut Saber Excalibur.

VS

Darth Vader wins.

@frocharocha: Lol, we both did a Saber versus match at the same time!

I just did this because i was drawning her recently lol. Coincidence these days xD

Saber

saber gets force choked before she can draw her blade

There was three reason why Kuzuki could choke Saber

1. She underestimated his opponent who uses a fighting style that's effective against those with precognition like instincts
2. He was amped with magic
3. She was massively nerfed and struggled to even exist cuz of her master's low mana capacity.

I'd say that Saber is faster than Vader and she could break free from the force with invisible air burst. Saber in top form win this imo. I haven't read eu Star Wars though.

Hmm, this might be a close fight. I think Saber should get a majority tho

King Arturia wins easily.

The only way Vader could even have the most remote chance of winning is TK ragdoll immediately on sight. Even then, we can make the argument that it counts as magic, so magic resistance is a thing. If someone tries to get technical by saying "but, it's not mana or magic like in Fate", well, then sorry, because that means that Vader literally can't do anything to her, as only mana-based attacks can harm a servant, so not making the force count as an equivalent in Fate is an auto-win for Saber. In addition, he'd get effortlessly dominated in CQB, and has no answer for Excalibur. Through in Avalon, and this is even worse of a massacre.

Vader wins since Force Choke is basically magic and he'd eviscerate her in sword combat. Also no proof Saber's saber can resist Vader's saber heat.

Tears in 3.. 2..

Saber is pretty much immune to magic though and what's the proof that he'd beat her in sword-combat or that a light saber could cut Excalibur that was created by mystical beings. Doesn't matter though since op stated light saber cannot cut Excallibur.

I believe Saber have superior speed feats than Vader tho.

Could Saber blitz?

Excalibur is a magical holy weapon. I don't think a lightsaber would cut through it regardless. Her fully charged weapon has stupid DC and AOE. As well as range.

I'd also liked to add that she's at least 20+ tons.

Vader. Force powers, lightsaber, GG.

Excaliblast = GG

@nightwingx said:

@wollfmyth209 said:

Vader. Force powers, lightsaber, GG.

Excaliblast = GG

Force Choke that crusher her wind-pipe = GG.

Weapon she never faced before = GG.

@wollfmyth209: Ok, here the thing. Saber is a servant. A heroic spirit. Although she cannot turn intagnible, she cannot bleed or freeze to death. I doubt crushing her wind pipe would do much since she could simply regenerate. It's also possible that she can activate her magic ability to break free from the force just like she did against Caster.

What does it matter if it's a light saber? According to the thread maker, it cannot cut her weapon anyways.

Saber would speed blitz and at full potential is on the level of D

Dangai Ichigo

I love it when people just assume a lightsaber can cut through a sword from another series because it's a top tier in its own universe. Excalibur is an indestructible sword. To give reference, the mere wind from Saber's sword strikes can obliterate the asphalt and break down a warehouse of steel, and has no risk of breaking. The mechanics behind an Excaliblast is that it takes Saber's mana, turns it into light, and focuses and accelerates it as a kind of laser. How hot is it? Well, in Fate Zero, it vaporized an entire lake when it was used parallel above it, and destroyed every atom of the gigantic horror. It's also stated that if it was used on the ground, it would leave a scar on the earth that would never go away. It's also ranked above an anti-country NP, that can repeatedly fire nuke-level blasts. No proof my but i_like_swords. So, yeah, a lighstaber's heat means absolutely nothing to this sword. If anything, it'd be the lightsaber that would be breaking under the force of Saber's attacks.

If the force counts as magic (and as such, something that has the possibility of hurting her), then it also goes under the rules of her magic resistance. The common misconception is that she's immune to all spells, which is not true. She's immune to all modern spells (being A-ranked or lower), while ancient ones of Ex rank level wouldn't be deleted, but would do very little damage. So, how much power is behind spells? Well, the only ones that have feats and statements are D-rank, A-rank, and S-rank ones, so this is convenient for this debate. A-rank spells have been observed by Emiya, and by his estimate, the energy behind them is enough to destroy a mansion, and he's seen an A-rank wind spell that could "blow a house away without a trace." This is what her resistance can eliminate. An Ex-ranked spell is enough to be anti-army. That's the level that she'd get hit by, but would have very little damage from. I don't think it needs saying that Vader never unleashed that level of destructive power in the force ever.

So, Saber will either simply overwhelm Vader in CQB and kill him, or Vader eats an Excaliblast to the face. This is the problem of using Star Wars characters in a debate against characters from another series. Either, A. they'll be able to abuse the force against series that don't address TK or TP, or B. There's a small batch of characters that can counter this and/or so OP, that they get lolstomped. This is scenario B.

People don't seem to get trolling on Vine, lately. Huh.

1.

Saber wrecks. Much more powerful and she has the speed feats to counter Vader's speed

Vader wins, The Force is not magic, so can ignore all Saber Magic resistance, she is pretty much fucked in a fight with a strong Jedi or Sith. (Jedi and Sith can use telekinesis and enhahnced senses to fight) Let's not forget that Saber was defeated by Shirou in her Alter form (yeah yeah, she was holding back, but still shows that a super human is cappable of defeat her) Also, Bazzett was able to counter attack her Excalibur in Fate Hollow Ataraxia killing her instantly with a shot to her heart.

Vader curbstomps

His Pre Cog completely Hard Counters and overrides the small speed advantage.

Along with that she has no answer to getting her throat crushed internally also known as force choke.

Saber's Instinct is close enough to precognition so that advantage won't do much unless Vader immediately goes for TK immediately and apply lethal force ASAP.

Shirou beating her was still someone who copied the physical capabilities of another Servant using said Servant's arm.

Bazett didn't so much counter-attack Excalibur as much as she used hax to ensure her strike, despite being activated last, killed her before she could activate Excalibur.

If Vader doesn't get blitzed by a few hundred strikes per second as with her fight against Assassin, he has a chance if he goes direct for the kill. She outranks him everywhere else.

And if one uses Goddess Rhongomyniad version of Artoria well.... that's another beast entirely.

Can anyone actually tell me how fast Saber is? Because unless she's more than twice as fast as Vader, I don't think she's winning. I mean, she did lose to Assassin who is (apparently): slower, weaker, and using a sword that can't take any direct blows. I realise most will be quick to remind me that Assassin is "just that good", but how good can you actually be with a sword? There are finite moves, and when you (again: "apparently") outclass your enemy as much as she did, there really is no excuse for losing.

Until someone states her speed, I won't pick a winner, but I will point out Vaders advantageous:

• More versatile weapons; a sword has only three methods of attack: slice with one of the two sharp ends, or stab. A lightsaber is dealt from every angle.
• Skill; Vader doesn't lose to people that (again: "apparently") he completely outclasses.
• Force crush; Vader can destroy her heart in her chest.
• Precognition; Vader can see the future to a degree.

Can someone post some feats for Saber, please?

Totes Vader; all he has to do is telekinetically ragdoll and/or Force Crush her.

@serpinethegreen: which loss to Assassin are you referring to? The fight that never finished because Saber survived Assassin's dimensional manipulation slash via precog? When Shirou was dying and Assassin let her walk past him in order to help her master?

The fake Assassin who doesn't actually exist and has a technique that makes his blade exist in multiple places in one slash. How skilled can a swordsman like that be right?

Neither of them lost, the only "loss" you could refer to is in sword technique and that's because he is a literal myth summoned by Caster, not an actual Servant who existed.

• Means literally nothing since her blade is magical in nature and Saber is skilled enough with a blade to block from whatever angle she has to.
• Vader's "skill" is hitting hard with a lightsaber, there isn't any skill in his technique.
• Refer to the multitude of peoples' posts about the force being used in this fight.
• Saber has precog too.

@kbm:

The fake Assassin who doesn't actually exist and has a technique that makes his blade exist in multiple places in one slash. How skilled can a swordsman like that be right?

That's a nonsensical argument. It doesn't matter how skilled you are when your opponent outclasses you in all areas (since you wouldn't be able to react to them). The only way Saber could actually lose is due to her being an awful fighter. There are no two ways about it. Furthermore, (as I already explained) there are finite moves, Assassin can't be a "super god swordsman" simply because it doesn't make sense. As for his: "I'm so skilled I can break reality" attack. Well, I'd like to point out that it's simply a case of stupid anime logic (just look at characters like OPM).

I'd also like to add that Assassin can't be as great a swordsman as he is built up to be since skilled swordsman don't leave themselves open constantly (seriously, look at his form).

Means literally nothing since her blade is magical in nature

How would that help? I'm not arguing it'll slice through her sword, i'm stating that his sword has versatility of movement.

and Saber is skilled enough with a blade to block from whatever angle she has to.

She lost (or was is losing?) to a man weaker and slower than herself, her skill isn't on par with Vader. I'd also like to point out that not only was she not skilled enough to beat said man, but she also couldn't even get him to clash swords with her (which is actually a miserably poor showing).

Vader's "skill" is hitting hard with a lightsaber, there isn't any skill in his technique.

Really? You mean like in the films where he's played by an actual fencer (it may not look as fancy, but it shows legitimate skill unlike what Saber's shown) in his fights? Or in the books where it's stated that he's an incredibly skillful fighter? I obviously can't ask you to read all the books (even the ones with Vader alone would be too much), but take a gander at his respect threads, you'll be surprised how wrong you were.

Refer to the multitude of peoples' posts about the force being used in this fight.

None eliminate it as a possibility TBH.

Saber has precog too.

You're right, which just adds to her failure with Assassin. She couldn't beat someone despite her being: faster, stronger, carrying a better weapon, and having precog. That's pathetic. Either her precog is only used as deus ex (hence it generally only coming up to save her when she's faced with "special attacks), or she is simply an awful fighter (based on feats).

Saber. Physically superior, possible argument in regards to magic resistance and the force and combat precognition. Also I didn't think a lightsaber would cut Excalibur anyway.

@kbm: Like i said to another user, her precognition has limits ( can be fooled, shirou and kuzuki)

Vader has skill with the lightsaber: Form V, also known as Shien or Djem So, was the fifth form of lightsabercombat used by members of the Jedi Order. Form V allowed a Jedi to deflect blaster fire back at an opponent, turning the Jedi's defense into an offensive action. The Djem So variant of Form V was also based on defending with solid blocks and parries, then immediately countering with strong, and overwhelming, counterattacks and ripostes, and was geared toward, and created for lightsaber to lightsaber combat, but also still reasonably useful for blast deflection. ^[8]

Maybe he was talking about True Assasin

@Cypher0120: Shirou is copying himself basically because technically is his arm, and his fightning style

Still, a human a magician was capable of beat a servant of that caliber. So while she is casting excalibur , a Force Choke or Force Crush can stop her, killing her instantly.

Her precognition have limits ( can be fooled, for example kuzuki, and shirou in the Sparks Linner High ending)

This is the closest thing will we ever have as jedi in anime

The only thing that put Vader in disvantage is his wounds that limits his movements. Vader had to change his lightsaber style to compensate for the weight, bulk, and inflexibility of his armor. Despite the weaknesses imparted by the suit, it also provided a number of strengths. These included greatly enhanced durability and stamina, numerous sensory enhancements, and protection from extremely inhospitable environments and biological weaponry.

@giliad_:

Don't want to be that guy, but she has lost to someone physically inferior in every way in the past. Could you tell me how fast Saber actually is? I didn't get an answer before. In my opinion she'll lose unless she is much faster than Vader, but I won't commit to either side without the facts.

Saber at her peak wins.

Context dude. She was heavily nerfed and underestimated her opponent. Add the fact that Kuzuki was enchanced by one of the most powerful mages in old times. + Kuzuki's unique fighting style counters those with precognition-like instincts. That's why Shirou was able to fend him off since he's not nearly as skilled as Saber. + That technique only works as an suprise atk. Kuzuki stated that he would never be able to beat Saber again since she would be ready for it.

As for her speed, she is hypersonic +. She can move so fast that she appears invisible to normal humans.

someone should ask this to Nasu xD

@serpinethegreen: Mach 2-10 combat speed - Mach 2 being a lower bound for sure. Also she hasn't really lost to an inferior without context, Fake Assassin is an outlier because his skill is insane.

Assassin's skills are seriously being downplayed here.

He's capable of completely dominating Lancer and Saber in close combat and could actually drive back Berserker despite those people out-classing him by a fair amount.

Archer, who can track Mach 13 arrows can't do anything to Stay Night Lancer.

Easily flung a stone slab weighing several tons into the air:

"Along with her roar, the clump of air pressure—which had the momentum to sweep away an army of thousands and was supported by the release of prana – impacted heavily on the top of the stone slab; the slab, which looked as if it must weigh at least several tons, was easily flung into the air."

Fight with Lancer destroys the surrounding area with just wind pressure of their weapons:

"The wind that followed the swinging of weapons crudely severed the lamp post in half. Irisviel could no longer see the movements carried out at such high speeds. She was only feeling the after-shock of the conflict between the two. The peeling sheet iron on the outer walls of the warehouses was ripped away by the wind from Irisviel’s side as if it was a piece of coiled tin foil. She could not comprehend how the iron can be torn away. Perhaps it was Saber’s sword or Lancer’s spear that brushed against its adjacent hollow space. Apart from that, she could not come up with any other explanation."

Fight with Lancer looks like an earthquake had gone through:

"Two storehouses had already collapsed, and a hundred square meters of asphalt were torn up. Turned into a battlefield, it was almost as if an earthquake has just came and gone."

http://i.imgur.com/9boGXJW.jpg

A hundred blows exchanged between Archer and Lancer in the span of a second.

Passed the speed of sound and reaches near the speed of light:

"The clash between the precious artifacts of legend, driven by strength and speed far beyond that of a human, passed the speed of sound, nearing the speed of light. Observation had long since lost meaning in this momentous battle. Those divine skills, pushed to the limits at the point of this fierce battle, were having a supreme contest between the two. An unknown number of rounds had been fought; perhaps tens of rounds, perhaps hundreds of rounds. It was simply impossible to determine with a mortal eye. After the lance and sword of the two clashed, they finally separated, and moved away from each other."

Weaves through a barrage of bullets (these bullets were able to hurt her due to F/Z Berserker's ability:

"In the depths of the darkness, red lotuses of flame blossomed once more. Under the firelight that shone from the muzzle of the gun, the black shadow of Berserker lengthened to a state of deformity as it gestured threateningly on the walls of the underground parking area. Without the slightest hesitation, Saber leaped into the air, dashing out through a baptism of flying lead bullets. The stray bullets of unimaginably destructive power tore open a large hole in the cement of the ground and walls. That power obviously could not be spoken of in tandem with the weapon that Maiya had used."

More later.

@Cypher0120:

Assassin's skills are seriously being downplayed here.

You misunderstand, Assassin's skills simply shouldn't come into play. It's like what Dr. Manhatten says to Ozzy:

"The world's smartest man poses no more threat to me than does its smartest termite.”

There comes a point where being good at something (even extremly good) doesn't matter (Ozzys plan succeeding doesn't alter this point btw, so unless you want a paragraph on why, I wouldn't bother arguing it).

He's capable of completely dominating Lancer and Saber in close combat and could actually drive back Berserker despite those people out-classing him by a fair amount.

That just tells me that those characters don't know their asses from their elbows. There is no secret level when it comes to skill, there is very much a set limit. Even if we say Assassin is at the top (which is dubious based on his poor form, and illogical fighting style), these characters would have to be at the bottom to actually lose (that or Assassin isn't inferior physically).

@theorder14:

+ Kuzuki's unique fighting style counters those with precognition-like instincts.

How? I don't think the writers actually understand what skill means.

As for her speed, she is hypersonic +. She can move so fast that she appears invisible to normal humans.

Vader is also hypersonic (so there goes the speed advantage).

@giliad_:

Mach 2-10 combat speed - Mach 2 being a lower bound for sure.

Mach 10 could be problematic (he'd stomp her if she's only packing mach 2), do you have any feats supporting it?

Also she hasn't really lost to an inferior without context, Fake Assassin is an outlier because his skill is insane.

I disagree, skill simply doesn't work the way anime wants it to.

If you're not going to accept that Assassin's skill was great enough to break physics in pure physical attacks alone, then I don't know what else you want.

His technique was comparable to Zelretch, a full on sorcerer capable of stopping the Moon from falling.

And that skill fromm just a simple person like Assassin in creating parallel sword swings without magic.

And did you not read the novel quotes I added where it describes how the Servants are fighting? How Saber approaches the speed of light with their swings?

What, do I have to post Gilgamesh lightning-timing against True Archer as well to show the difference in stats?

@serpinethegreen:

How? I don't think the writers actually understand what skill means.

It was described as "live snakes" capable of changing path to come back to the target.Even if you dodge the atk, it will still reach and hurt you. It was stated that Saber had the reflexes to dodge the strikes and that's why she got hurt. Shirou however does not have the same skills and that's why he managed to avoid fatal dmg. You should know that Kuzuki have trained 20 years mastering this one suprise technique alone. The folks in his clan r capable of peforming some ridiculous stuff.

Vader is also hypersonic (so there goes the speed advantage).

Except that Saber have far superior speed feats than Vader from what i've seen.

@serpinethegreen: To put it better Fake Assassin is both physical within a reasonable marginals along with being more skilled, swordsman to swordsman it's not unreasonable at all to assume that it makes a great difference. PS - Assassin was also very fast, it's not like he was peak human

Here's their stats. Saber under Emiya isn't that much stronger than Assassin. In their second encounter, we know that Saber held back to preserve energy but instantly killed him once she went serious.

@theorder14:

It was described as "live snakes" capable of changing path to come back to the target.Even if you dodge the atk, it will still reach and hurt you. It was stated that Saber had the reflexes to dodge the strikes and that's why she got hurt. Shirou however does not have the same skills and that's why he managed to avoid fatal dmg. You should know that Kuzuki have trained 20 years mastering this one suprise technique alone. The folks in his clan is capable of peforming some ridiculous stuff.

Alright, now I know they don't know how skill works (and they apparently don't understand precognition either).

Except that Saber have far superior speed feats than Vader from what i've seen.

What feats? Everyone is screaming how fast she is, but nobody is posting any feats proving them.

@Cypher0120:

You haven't added anything to the conversation here (you didn't even tag me). All yore saying is that Assassin is a god level swordsman, but completely ignoring how that doesn't make a lick of sense (how can skill be compared to moon busting?). Anyway, I'd like to see some actual feats, I don't want to here hyperbolic quotes of themthem loving at light speed (fun fact: Darth Maul has been described as faster than light too).

@giliad_:

To put it better Fake Assassin is both physical within a reasonable marginals along with being more skilled, swordsman to swordsman it's not unreasonable at all to assume that it makes a great difference. PS - Assassin was also very fast, it's not like he was peak human

Alright, I can accept that (assuming his speed is either higher or virtually the same as hers).

What feats? Everyone is screaming how fast she is, but nobody is posting any feats proving them.

Saber is capable of slashing hundreds of times in seconds. Is Vader capable of doing that?

With a command spell, Saber temporarily regained her full power here and went 4 km under a second . Under this one second, Saber kept up and reacted to the homing arrow going faster than Mach 10 and avoided it mid-air.

Here's a gif of Saber blocking Rider's atk from every direction. Note that Rider is nerfing Saber's speed here. Her true identity is Medusa and she's capable of petrifing everyone with weak magic resistance. Against Saber, it only slows her down.

Saber could also use invisible air to triple her speed in one burst. Note that she's nerfed and is not even at her peak here.

@theorder14: Don't bother. They'll just come back with "Lightspeed Anakin" based off hyperbolic statements instead of actual movement and reaction feats in physical Combat. Nvm it's moot as Saber can just push down in a blade lock and rip through Vader since he can't remotely compete with her in strength.

Plus the fact they believe that Lightsaber Styles are better than actual swordsman arts and martial arts is in itself just utterly laughable. And then the delusion that Force Precog beats everything else, despite it failing numerous times and all the occurrences of it being tricked, bypassed or diverted by other methods. It doesn't matter since it'd be rather useless in the face of a Heroic Spirit that exists outside normal laws of causality and are contained within the Moon Cell, aka the Holy Grail. And are called out through magic for each Holy Grail War, which itself is a distortion of reality.

Then comes the "He can TK ragdoll", ignoring the fact that while the Force itself isn't inherently magical, Saber herself is a spiritual and magical entity, who possesses high physical durability, a recovery factor, and whose armor is also made through magic that further magnifies her defenses. Which basically just means their arguments are pointless anyway since he can't really cause her any damage anyway and she can resist his manipulation.

And one of the biggest things most forget is Avalon. It is something Saber does indeed possess and makes her completely impervious to harm. They could throw Luke, Sid and Abeloth at her, but it wouldn't mean anything the moment she uses Avalon.

@serpinethegreen If you don't want to use feats from the novels, then you're denying the primary source considering those came first. They're more canon than the animated adaptation.

The same cannot be said of Darth Maul moving faster than light since that's not from the original material I'm the first place.

And this is far too specific for hyperbole when Gilgamesh reacted to an arrow moving faster than lightning.

"The speed at which electricity transmitted through the air, the speed of lighting in other words, is slower than light, but it should have been fast enough to catch a normal arrow. But the speed of the arrow went beyond the limits of humanity. Gilgamesh instantly manifested his armor and knocked the arrow away with his left gauntlet."

~ Fate/Strange Fake Vol. 2

To note. Saber should be faster than Gilgamesh given their stats screen too.

Other top tier Servants would also involve Arjuna and Karna who do this to mountains.

That's the level of power Vader would have to be comparable to.

Though I guess using the Indian Bros would be a bit of a cheat given how powerful they are.

Karna was still killed by a Gae Bolg. But Saber surives something similar anyway

https://67.media.tumblr.com/14d2a8e506c9ccc2010b6bd6a616383e/tumblr_o4lsfkSmLs1rwlf4vo1_500.gif

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128614/5153575-8329825257-mPxQu.gif

@theorder14:

I swear nobody tags me anymore. Unfortunately, I can't see your gifs (my phone struggles with them), but if what you say is true, then she should win in a physical fight. Although, i'm still not entirely convinced that she can resist his Force attacks (which means he could still crush her heart in her chest).

@reikai:

Don't bother. They'll just come back with "Lightspeed Anakin" based off hyperbolic statements instead of actual movement and reaction feats in physical Combat. Nvm it's moot as Saber can just push down in a blade lock and rip through Vader since he can't remotely compete with her in strength.

Where's the rudeness coming from? May I remind you that the only person who's stated that a character is lightspeed/FTL is someone arguing for Saber:

"And did you not read the novel quotes I added where it describes how the Servants are fighting? How Saber approaches the speed of light with their swings?"

-Post #42

See.

Then comes the "He can TK ragdoll", ignoring the fact that while the Force itself isn't inherently magical, Saber herself is a spiritual and magical entity, who possesses high physical durability, a recovery factor, and whose armor is also made through magic that further magnifies her defenses. Which basically just means their arguments are pointless anyway since he can't really cause her any damage anyway and she can resist his manipulation.

How would any of this stop him crushing her heart with the force? What feats does her heart have for resisting damage? Also, he could lift her off the ground, and kill her with his lightsaber. I'm not saying that Vader wins BTW, but you seem to be downplaying his versatility.

And one of the biggest things most forget is Avalon. It is something Saber does indeed possess and makes her completely impervious to harm. They could throw Luke, Sid and Abeloth at her, but it wouldn't mean anything the moment she uses Avalon.

This is simply untrue. Any of the people you mentioned could telepathically control her into putting down her defences, and you'd have to prove she is 100% impervious to harm (NLF terms don't really fly on the vine). It doesn't matter anyway, she'd lose through incap.

@serpinethegreen:

I swear nobody tags me anymore. Unfortunately, I can't see your gifs (my phone struggles with them), but if what you say is true, then she should win in a physical fight. Although, i'm still not entirely convinced that she can resist his Force attacks (which means he could still crush her heart in her chest).

Her durability, armor and healing factor has resisted far worse than Vader's tk. Even if he could grab a hold of her with tk, she could simply use strike air burst to break free. That's what she usually does when she gets immobilized.

Saber have also two other projectile atks y'know. Strike air or minimized Excalibur r both atks that would one-shot Vader.