Punisher vs batman (the dark knight returns)

VS

Rules

Morals are on however both believe the other is a villain

Batman has standard gear (keep in mind this is the batman from the dark knight returns and the dark knight strikes again)

Punisher has dual pistols (unlimited ammo but must reload), Kevlar vest, and a combat knife

Location

They do not begin visible

Begin 200 feat apart

fight takes place here:

Who wins and why?

I'd give it to Frank Castle, he's still in his prime.

Awesome fight, actually made an account just to post in it. Both human level fighters, both inventive and at the peak of their physical ability.

The kevlar vest wont help punisher out much. Batman does not use guns and kevlar wont stop a stab wound, unless its a stabproof kevlar vest?

Morals on only helps punisher as he believes bats is a villain, and punisher has never given a second thought about killing.

Even if both had prep time it would still be a very close fight, in the end I would say castle takes it. I cant really give a good text reasoning for it other than frank is just truly determined to rid the world of evil no matter the cost. Where bats has lines he wont cross in order to win.

Punisher wins simply because he can kill Batman before he can even get to him.

I'd give it to Frank Castle, he's still in his prime.

Interesting. I'm not too sure on this, but the environment is geared in Batman's favor and he could use it to his advantage. I'll have to come back to this.

bump

@Biza said:

Awesome fight, actually made an account just to post in it. Both human level fighters, both inventive and at the peak of their physical ability.

The kevlar vest wont help punisher out much. Batman does not use guns and kevlar wont stop a stab wound, unless its a stabproof kevlar vest?

Morals on only helps punisher as he believes bats is a villain, and punisher has never given a second thought about killing.

Even if both had prep time it would still be a very close fight, in the end I would say castle takes it. I cant really give a good text reasoning for it other than frank is just truly determined to rid the world of evil no matter the cost. Where bats has lines he wont cross in order to win.

@Frozen said:

@Jayfournines said:

I'd give it to Frank Castle, he's still in his prime.

I think his age is actually similar to Batman's.

The Dark Knight Returns Batman is much older. He's about 55 and just coming out of retirement after a 10 year absence.

@Shawnbaby: I'm aware of that but Punisher is actually quite old, having served in Vietnam.

@Frozen said:

@Shawnbaby: I'm aware of that but Punisher is actually quite old, having served in Vietnam.

He SHOULD be that old...in actual comic book terms though he isnt...Remember Comic Books have a sliding time scale. Magneto was in a Nazi Concentration Camp...and him and Xavier are the same age...either of them look like they are 80?

@Shawnbaby said:

@Frozen said:

@Shawnbaby: I'm aware of that but Punisher is actually quite old, having served in Vietnam.

He SHOULD be that old...in actual comic book terms though he isnt...Remember Comic Books have a sliding time scale. Magneto was in a Nazi Concentration Camp...and him and Xavier are the same age...either of them look like they are 80?

I'm not saying that his age would restrict him, I was just simply stating that they were the same age. By the looks of it this version of Batman was more affected by his age.

Thanks for posting rules and settings they make ALL the difference, especially in a fight like this one. Unfortunately I don't know a lot about the VERSION of Batman you are using here, but in general I'd say Batman takes this one pretty easily because of one stipulation. They start the fight NOT seen. Punisher's stealth does not come close to Batman IMO. If they start out in scenario where stealth and ambush could end it quickly, I'll go Batman but only by a narrow margin. let's say 6/10. Punisher's not stupid, ESPECIALLY in warfare, so there's every chance, he'd use the environment, set traps, entrench and wait for the bat to come to him and his decoys. This is a good match up and there's still a lot of ways big pun can take this one. My vote based on the rules though, is for bats.

@Frozen said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@Frozen said:

@Shawnbaby: I'm aware of that but Punisher is actually quite old, having served in Vietnam.

He SHOULD be that old...in actual comic book terms though he isnt...Remember Comic Books have a sliding time scale. Magneto was in a Nazi Concentration Camp...and him and Xavier are the same age...either of them look like they are 80?

I'm not saying that his age would restrict him, I was just simply stating that they were the same age. By the looks of it this version of Batman was more affected by his age.

No, What I'm saying is that The Punisher isn't as old as Batman is in The Dark Knight Returns. He's probably at least 10-15 years younger.

@Shawnbaby said:

@Frozen said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@Frozen said:

@Shawnbaby: I'm aware of that but Punisher is actually quite old, having served in Vietnam.

He SHOULD be that old...in actual comic book terms though he isnt...Remember Comic Books have a sliding time scale. Magneto was in a Nazi Concentration Camp...and him and Xavier are the same age...either of them look like they are 80?

I'm not saying that his age would restrict him, I was just simply stating that they were the same age. By the looks of it this version of Batman was more affected by his age.

No, What I'm saying is that The Punisher isn't as old as Batman is in The Dark Knight Returns. He's probably at least 10-15 years younger.

He clearly is near Batman's age. The Comic-Vine page states he is 62, placing his birth at around 1949. He is a 62 year old, but he just doesn't look it, and his age miraculously doesn't affect him in any way. Same with Magneto, he's old but his age doesn't affect him. It was different with The Dark Knight Returns as the whole point of the story was he was slower than he was before. It's shown that years have passed since the Vietnam war, but the time-line is messed up and very hard to get with, so I'll stop here and agree with you.

@Frozen said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@Frozen said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@Frozen said:

@Shawnbaby: I'm aware of that but Punisher is actually quite old, having served in Vietnam.

He SHOULD be that old...in actual comic book terms though he isnt...Remember Comic Books have a sliding time scale. Magneto was in a Nazi Concentration Camp...and him and Xavier are the same age...either of them look like they are 80?

I'm not saying that his age would restrict him, I was just simply stating that they were the same age. By the looks of it this version of Batman was more affected by his age.

No, What I'm saying is that The Punisher isn't as old as Batman is in The Dark Knight Returns. He's probably at least 10-15 years younger.

He clearly is near Batman's age. The Comic-Vine page states he is 62, placing his birth at around 1949. He is a 62 year old, but he just doesn't look it, and his age miraculously doesn't affect him in any way. Same with Magneto, he's old but his age doesn't affect him. It was different with The Dark Knight Returns as the whole point of the story was he was slower than he was before. It's shown that years have passed since the Vietnam war, but the time-line is messed up and very hard to get with, so I'll stop here and agree with you.

You clearly don't understand how age works in comic books. If Punisher is 62 that means he would have been the Punisher for like 30 years...which he hasn't...In Marvel time he's been Punisher for Maybe 10 years

@Shawnbaby said:

@Frozen said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@Frozen said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@Frozen said:

@Shawnbaby: I'm aware of that but Punisher is actually quite old, having served in Vietnam.

He SHOULD be that old...in actual comic book terms though he isnt...Remember Comic Books have a sliding time scale. Magneto was in a Nazi Concentration Camp...and him and Xavier are the same age...either of them look like they are 80?

I'm not saying that his age would restrict him, I was just simply stating that they were the same age. By the looks of it this version of Batman was more affected by his age.

No, What I'm saying is that The Punisher isn't as old as Batman is in The Dark Knight Returns. He's probably at least 10-15 years younger.

He clearly is near Batman's age. The Comic-Vine page states he is 62, placing his birth at around 1949. He is a 62 year old, but he just doesn't look it, and his age miraculously doesn't affect him in any way. Same with Magneto, he's old but his age doesn't affect him. It was different with The Dark Knight Returns as the whole point of the story was he was slower than he was before. It's shown that years have passed since the Vietnam war, but the time-line is messed up and very hard to get with, so I'll stop here and agree with you.

You clearly don't understand how age works in comic books. If Punisher is 62 that means he would have been the Punisher for like 30 years...which he hasn't...In Marvel time he's been Punisher for Maybe 10 years

I'm not sure you bothered you read my last line?

Batman.

Frank

Frank wins this one.

Both Xavier and Magneto were "rebirthed"

Xavier was cloned after he was infected and turned into a Brood Queen (around Uncanny in the 160s 170s,) He had a younger body and his legs worked.

Magneto was reduced to infancy by a very powerful mutant named Omega, he re-grew up, at an advanced rate, but his body is in his thirty ish

In this environment where Batman can stealth his butt off, The Dark Knight takes out Frank with medium difficulty.

You are correct...but still...those things happened in the late 70's/early 80's. So 30 to 40 years ago. Have they aged 30 to 40 years?

But, if you want a better example...look at Spider-Man...he was created over 50 years ago. He was 15 at the time. Does Peter Parker look like he's in his late 60's?

Comic book Characters do not age in real time...because of this sometimes they have to slightly retcon certain past events. Peter Parker is in his late 20's now...which means, continuity wise, he would have been bitten by the spider in the early 2000's (This is confirmed by the introduction of Silk who was bitten by the same Spider that bit Peter and subsequently locked away in a bunker for 13 years.). Sometimes they have to cheat if they want to keep a character around but their origin story is too important to retcon. Magneto has to be from Auschwitz, and Xavier and Magneto have to have been friends when they were young...which means they have to be about the same age.

Frank for sure

Except comic books only come out every month, and very little time can pass between issues (Some continue the moment after the last issue ended)

@heroup2112: Interesting. So in your opinion, who do you think will win if this Batman decides to take Frank on in close quarter combat?

Kind of true, but time does pass off panel. According to Peter Otto possessed his body for about a year.

That's the point.

True, but if they're on the same sliding time scale they'd still be older. The MU had characters (the Crimson Guard I think they were called then they became something else with Mystique and some of the other Brotherhood) that were actually close to the appropriate age for having been in WW2. Or it's what you said, either way, problem solved :)

@brucerogers: Batman almost certainly

@col_facepuncher: True, yet most of them have Christmas issues...it's a weird comicbook world :)