Orbalisk Bane Vs ROTJ Darth Vader

VS

Both combatants are in their prime.

Battle takes place on Rhen Var.

Start at 30 feet distance.

Morals off.

Who wins? Who dies?

@dominis@i_like_swords@shootingnova@dccomicsrule2011

Orbalisk Bane.

Vader takes it.

Orbalisk Bane's TK is inferior as his disintegration of the techno beasts was amped by a nexus, they're roughly even or close in speed, Bane's lightning can be absorbed by a lightsaber, and he is a massively inferior duelist to Vader even amped.

Maybe Orbalisk Bane. Not too sure.

Vader takes it

@burnface I don't know. Being dark side creations, weren't those technobeasts also amped by a nexus? And Orbalisk Bane is certainly faster than Vader and is almost as fast as Anakin.

For the fight, I'm undecided.

@zapan87: I doubt it. They weren't sensitive beforehand.

Bane, just cause I think he is more powerful then vader

@shootingnova Of course they weren't but wouldn't they be amped, and made more durable simply because they were there? I also remember that they were attracted to Belia Darzu's holocron.

@zapan87: Fair enough. You could argue that it's just their instinct since a number of beasts do appear to just be attracted to dark side nexuses.

@shootingnova I wasn't arguing anything actually, just asking for opinions on the matter.

@zapan87: It was a figure of speech. I could say "one could argue", then. I just meant that it was a possibility.

@shootingnova My bad, I thought that you were conceding a point

I'm still not convinced about the technobeasts being amped. Them being attracted to Darzu's holocron only suggests that Darzu still has control over them, being their creator and all. Unless they are force sensitive and can harness the force like one, I don't see how they would be able to tap into a DS nexus. Regardless, Vader has blasted through a very thick concrete structure, and the force required to do so should be equivalent to the force required to disintegrate those technobeats (though I could be wrong, as I'm no expert on stuff like that). Not to mention that Vader has easily gripped and crushed a tie fighter weighing tons. To use force grip and crush requires more concentration and power than a FP to begin with, so the fact that Vader so easily did both on something so massive is just ridiculous. So I'd give Vader the edge in TK. Also, @zapan87, when I said Vader demolished a fortress in the other thread, I was referring to the cathedral. Thanks for the correction.

As for speed, Zapan, you asked about Vader forming a shield:

@dominis That looks more like a Saber Throw than a speed feat, or maybe it's both. Regardless, that showing should be on Maul/Malgus level in speed. And I doubt crushing a TIE fighter and disintegrating people are the same thing. And just to ask, how do you know it weighs tons?

For the nexus, I was actually asking for opinions, because I don't think I have enough knowledge to argue about that.

@zapan87, remember I told you I was just very curious as to why you place Orbalisk Bane solidly above Vader, so I'll wait for an analysis or more from you before I go into further detail.

@dominis Because Bane has superior durability, superior speed, and probably superior TK. How much more powerful than Bane do you think Plagueis is? Because in pure TK the two should be approachable. And of course Plagueis > Vader.

Vader was clearly moving the saber fast enough to form a shield before he threw it. But I'd rather you make a case for Orbalisk Bane being solidly above Vader before I go any further on speed. The debate will be less sloppy that way, and easier for us both to follow.

Yes crushing the tie fighter would be a different application of TK, and a more refined application of it. The sheer size of the tie fighter should indicate that it weighs tons. The cooling unit Leia dropped on Sidious weighed a ton and was a lot smaller than a tie fighter.

@dominis Let's see.

Speed:

Vader has moved his blade faster than thought, formed a shield out of his blade, dodged Aurra Sing's attacks,dodged Jedi Masters attacks before getting accustomed to his suit, speedblitzed a Jedi Knight, moved his lightsaber fast enough to create a blue circle, contended with Maul (not sure about this one, though)

Bane has less feats, but they include moving his blade so fast that Zannah thought it was everywhere at once, and other feats like seemingly moving so fast against Sirak that for an instant the studnts of the Sith Academy llost track of what happened. Orbalisk Bane is obviously faster than that.

The difference isn't huge but is definitely present.

Durability: this probably shouldn't be explained. Bane is invulnerable to lightsaber blows, and even if he is hit, the orbalisks would heal him instantly.

Telekinesis: not that much convinced about this actually.

Even disregarding this, Bane should win via durability and speed, and possibly Lightning, unless Vader somehow manages to behead him.

I'll get to this point by point probably later on tonight, as I'm having some technical difficulties with my internet connection ATM.

BTW, I see why some view Orbalisk Bane as being superior, but not solidly so, which is what you implied in the other thread. You seem like a very intelligent poster, so when you implied that, I was curious as to why you would think that.

Bane

@dominis I see. Oh, and thanks forthe compliment.

I never said that Bane was vastly above Vader, only noticeably, at least in TK, though I'm not fully convinced any longer. However, he certainly remains above in speed and durability.

No problem. I take interest in the opinions of intelligent posters, and that's why I was so curious about your opinion on the matter. I wasn't exactly trying to be combative, just so you know.

But I view Vader as the more powerful force user quite solidly, especially in TK, considering that the feats I've listed for him were done off a nexus. However, Orbalisk Bane would be a hard adversary for Vader mainly due to the protection the orbalisks give him and because of a few other factors. But like I said, I'll get into more detail on this topic later.

@dominis Never thought you were combative. Anyway, I'm also interested in hearing your case about this.

Vader probably has more raw power but it's ok he wouldn't be crushing bane with the force in this fight. Bane stomps in a lightsaber duel. Only having to defend his head is too big am advantage. Bane for solid majority. Without orbalisks bane still cam content with Vader tho idt he's a favorite

No he does not.

I think he wins easily. Vader had more xp vs good opponents but he had to defend like 20x the surface area. Banes blood lusted all out assault while he doesn't have top defend himself should be overwhelming to even a master duelist such as Vader. Why do u think impenetrable armor isn't a huge advantage?

Bane takes this pretty handily. Should have done bane after he lost his armor. Wouldve made this a bit closer. Vader couldnt compete with someonr as strong as bane. Let alone handle his fighting style

@dominis: I agree with you for the most part here.

I'd put Bane's technobeast feat above Vader's Crushing fighters, but since it was on a DS nexus as well, I could see it being close.

Darth Bane.

Bane would not take this handily at all. Bane has better running speed feats and agility, perhaps, but in combat speed, Vader is very comparable. Vader retains a noticeable skill edge, and strength is only even at best. Now, Lightning could be an edge for Bane, as well, but that depends on how likely it would be for him to utilize such a power, and to be honest, his telekinesis just seems more attractive to him. Bane could be more powerful but the margin is limited to say the least. Of course, the question is how Vader would win, except for decapitation, but Bane is at least remotely comparable in skill and is proficient in Soresu, so I wonder if Vader really could take his head.

@shootingnova For Vader's speed, there is this comment from Lucas. What do you think about it?

@zapan87: You mean the comment at the beginning? I think it works fine for the movie universe, it's just that Vader in the EU universe is harder to gauge for speed since he's usually portrayed as somewhat inconsistent. You would have instances where his speed is just so vast, like in the LotJ series, but in most comics and perhaps even most sources as a whole, Vader usually isn't presented with speed as his forte. Vader's physical strength and constitution have always been his most striking physical traits, not his speed, and whilst it is still impressive, to an extent, it's relatively inconsistent with some other instances where Vader is portrayed as being fairly slow.

Now, if you're someone who would generally just place faith in Lucas's comments more than anything else because you believe it was how Vader was originally intended to be, then I suppose you would follow his comment and end with Vader not quite so fast. If you're somebody who would dismiss Lucas due to no longer being in power and not having relevance to the EU by his own admission, then you could argue for Vader being fast. Lucas's comment indicates that Luke could be slower/less skilful/just not exactly on par with Jedi from the Prime of the Jedi (PT era) as well, whereas by EU establishments Luke is well within that category since he at least rivals Obi-Wan. In the film universe, of course, I would put Obi-Wan over him every time, in accordance to Lucas's description.

Really, the fact that Lucas has claimed that he really doesn't have anything to do with the EU even though he acknowledges its existence, and the fact that the Eu has ran off in another direction and established Luke and Vader as being very on par with most Jedi in the PT era, so in an EU discussion, which this is, I'd be content to stand by my previous assessments of Vader's speed, though I can see Orblisk Bane being faster still.