Odin Borson VS Justice League Busters

@princearagorn1: No, but it has sawed the head off a skyfather who had previously survived a multiversal fall (whatever that means) and oneshotted a 5D imp before.

@wf_mxyzptlk:

Who was that Skyfather who tanked a Multiversal fall?

The original Gog.

This guy:

@wf_mxyzptlk:

Could you elaborate on the "multiversal fall"? If you are talking about traveling through timelines, explain the logic on it being a durability feat..

Which version of mxy did gog one shot again?

@princearagorn1: I mean this. Take from it what you will. Definitely not a peaceful travel between timelines though. However, he does have more durability feats, such as virtually no-selling an attack from Lkz.

It was a featless version of Mxy from Kingdom Come. He's still a 5D imp though.

@asgardianbrony: So the realms aren't part of the MU?

Although it is stated that are mortal universes, there is nothing that suggests that is true. Seen that any other universe follows some rules. It's like when it's stated that a character can do incredible things but are never seen in comics. We can't know if that is a hyperbole or not.

So every "universal" feat that Odin has is in one of the realms?

@asgardianbrony: So now they are like the crimson cosmos or something like that?

Can you post the scan where it's stated that the realms are universes and aren't part of the MU? Thanks

@goldchamp101: Because, at his peak, Amazo has the Warlogog + the power of all the Justice League of America (near 100 Superheroes). The version defeated the whole JLA (without the Warlogog). He just kept on getting new powers (and no, it doesn't take him time to copy). The only way they defeated him is when Superman told Amazo be disbanded the League. That actually broke him because he was built to destroy the JLA. By disbanding it, he had no more reasons to be alive. That's how dumb it was.

@asgardianbrony: Yes, wel, it says that they are universes but we don't know if they are normal universes like the parallel universes in marvel or just a pocket universe like the one Franklin Richards made.

Ragnarok just affects Asgard and some other realms, but not midgard. Just because of the nature of Ragnarok, not because it couldn't affect midgard.

If Surtur can't effect the universes from marvel beacuse are separated, why can he effect other realms that should be separated universes?

@asgardianbrony: Franklin's one was also a full universe, but a pocket size one.

Well, that we can't show conclusive arguments because we don't know for certain if it can or not.

What does mortal multiverse mean?

"He was once freed by Loki and set against the Earth when Odin visited there to break the romance between Thor and Jane Foster."

I know wikis aren't very reliable, but in the marvel database wiki, it reffers to two instances were Surtur was on Earth, therefore, in the mortal multiverse.

Half the team is useless, and some of these guys aren't really JLA Busters.

They aren't full proper universes, they are tied to proper universes.

There are realms tied to a universe proper which is why when Thor travels to Earth he travels to Earth 616.

Then you will have a Thor who will travel to Earth and will always end up arriving on the Earth 1610

Then you will have the Thor from the universe with the Marvel zombies who would always arrive on that Earth

and so on.

For the fight I see no reason why Amazo wouldn't solo, he mimics Odins power but with super speed.

but there not proper universes, is there an aspect of Death or Infinity for Asgard, is there a Galactus like there is for every proper universe? no. There not proper universes, just realms tied to a proper universe.

Amazo gains the ability to use his powers as someone who is skilled in them, he mimics a green lantern and can use a ring, Mimics Zatanna and can use magic, things that required years of training for these characters.

@asgardianbrony: Want to tell me why he won't be able to use the OF as good as Odin when he was able to use willpower as soon as he scanned Hal Jordan, something that can take a lot of time for a recruit with a ring to do?

He's intelligent enough to know how to use multple abilities at the same time without having any experience with them.

@asgardianbrony: I know, but as that speech is the only reference there is to the realms been universes and from a guy not very well known. He isn't someone like reed or tony ypu would believe easier.

ahh okey, thanks.

If the realms are separate universes away from the MU, how can it be that a celestial could have cut the connection of the divine realms with the normal MU?

@dextersinister1: That's how I saw it in the first place.

@dextersinister1: That's exactly what I was asking and what i couldn't understand if they were proper universes. They need the cosmic pantheon to be a universe.

Glad to see someone with my view :)

I think its prob safe to say at this point that there's been a retcon of how the 9 realms are depicted and so you shouldn't really try to apply statements regarding them prior to Fraction's run and expect them to be consistent or make sense entirely with how they are depicted since then. Just as Fraction also introduced the Vanir more fully into the MU and Angela/the 10th realm were also added into continuity. Retcons always make a bit of a mess with past continuity so no point in really worrying about it.

@asgardianbrony: Isn't that cell where Odin is playing some short of chess?

It can be the size of a universe, but it doesn't have to be a universe. I don't know if it's clear what I'm saying.

That celestial isn't universal. How can he keep away from his realm a universal reality warper that can move away a hole universe? If Odin can move a universe like the tenth realm the he certainly has no problem creating a portal to his home.

@spambot: I understand what you mean, but if there wasn't a full retcon about how things work, then they shouldn't be able to change something defined and clear. Changing something from a realm to a universe is a big thing. And the Vanir where a thing, he just introduced them more, but didn't change anything.

I know, but we are already debating it, and I'm curious to see all the feats and things we can bring up to set it clear. That would also show if Odin is really a universal reality warper. But thanks for explaining the thing about Fractions run ;)

@asgardianbrony: Your scan ends with " This prison of Gods" And my scan starts with "In the prison of Gods" hahaha, I thinks it's the same XD

Yeah, okey, I agree with you that the power levels portrayed there were incorrect and messed up.

@johnny_odinson: It happens every now and then. Marvel doesn't do full on reboots really but sometimes back stories and other things do get retconned if a writer or the editorial staff want it to be that way. Especially given that not much was really written to define the realms in concrete terms going back to the 70's/80's.

@wf_mxyzptlk:

About the only quantifiable thing about it is the impact on the planet.. if you are looking for an unquantifiable "multiversal" reference, it is matched by odin's own battles tearing the fabric of multiverse, so the staff isn't doing much. Unless gog shattered galaxies with it or something, but I am assuming those scans are incoming.

What about the same skyfather taking direct full strength hits from Thunderbolt with no problems, but getting his head cut off instantly by the staff? Not to mention it oneshotting a 5D imp. While the alternate universe Mxy was featless, he's still a 5D imp so has the properties thereof. Same way beating alternate universe celestials are still taken seriously, even when they are featless.

The staff is really meant to be the very highest end of cosmic hardware. Forged from the combined power of the Guardians of the Universe, the Source, Zeus and the Greek Pantheon, and Shazam. The entire Quintessence basically poured everything they had into that staff. The end result was a weapon that dwarfed even their own powers.

@wf_mxyzptlk:

I have only read about a dozen issues of thunderbolt, but has he shown the kind of damage output for that claim to hold any weight?

As far as descriptions and hype goes, odin has been described as omnipotent on three separate occasions by characters and writers, it's best to ignore that and go by what they have showed.

The reason alternate mxy is not being considered on the same level, is because standard mxy has shown more than enough to last well past one hit against gog, considering all of their appearances. If you disagree, we can bump their thread and I will elaborate there.

Anyway, either gog has shown multi galaxy++ output, or he hasn't, That answers your initial question. As far as I have read about him, he doesn't show the output to worry anyone in this league.

@princearagorn1:

I have only read about a dozen issues of thunderbolt, but has he shown the kind of damage output for that claim to hold any weight?

Well, he stalemated Lkz, and Lkz easily trashed Corrigan Spectre. So yes. It holds a tremendous around of weight. Thunderbolt is a top-shelf reality warper.

As far as descriptions and hype goes, odin has been described as omnipotent on three separate occasions by characters and writers, it's best to ignore that and go by what they have showed.

Its not hype of Gog. Its the definition of his weapon. It's not him randomly claiming his weapon is as powerful as all those forces combined, its a fact that it is. Thats how they built it. I'm just pointing it out to highlight the fact that the absurd killing power it has is justified.

The reason alternate mxy is not being considered on the same level, is because standard mxy has shown more than enough to last well past one hit against gog, considering all of their appearances. If you disagree, we can bump their thread and I will elaborate there.

I am more than aware of Mxy's showings, trust me. KC Mxy doesn't need to be on the same level (or anywhere within ten orders of magnitude) to be comparable to Odin. Every scrub 5D imp we've ever seen since COIE has been more powerful than Odin. Why would KC Mxy be the lone exception? Getting oneshotted by Gog's staff really isn't that terrible of a showing since there's nothing a focussed blast from him failed to oneshot.

Anyway, either gog has shown multi galaxy++ output, or he hasn't, That answers your initial question. As far as I have read about him, he doesn't show the output to worry anyone in this league.

No, he doesn't walk around razing galaxies. The staff doesn't work like that. Its specifically designed as a tool for killing and boring holes in things, not for dropping massive AoE blasts on star systems. Think laser drill versus hand grenade. The grenade may be able to make a bigger blast, but it doesn't mean it penetrates deeper in hard material.

When has Odin endured forces greater than Thunderbolt? What makes him tougher than a 5D imp of any description?

What defence does team have against time stop?

Composite Gog is a walking counter to time stop. He plays with hypertime regularly.

The team has individuals that can solo Odin. What the hell!

@spambot: Okey okey, taht makes sense. But how do we lnow if it's a retcon or just a statement done in a comic that has no importance in how things are?

@grandwonder:

If you stop trolling and only use low showings that's not true.

@wf_mxyzptlk:

Completing the circle, thunderbolt was destroyed by spectre - and it can be strong enough to face coie AM. Killing a featless 5d imp is about as helpful as gorr killing an elder god. That doesn't support him being a multiverse busting abstract either.

Kind of missing the point - if you want to get in a hype war against someone who is repeatedly - and not by himself either - termed omnipotent, feel free to. I don't see the point in it.

Walking around destroying galaxies is not odin's job either. Point is he has repeatedly shown to perform on that level. If you're going for the potency argument, you also need to show gog having that kind of output in any of his other appearances. Somewhere. At least I have never seen him show output in this league. And correct me if I am wrong, by the phrasing of your comments, neither have you.

@johnny_odinson: Its prob not solid either way. We prob need to see if Aaron holds true to the idea before we could say that its been fully established. The 10th realm being referred to as a universe is also consistent with it. The other thing to keep in mind is that Fraction did a lot of retconning with Asgardian history so it seems he was given a lot of leeway to just do w/e he wanted when it came to Asgardian continuity.

Never in his entrire 50/60 years run did Odin ever destroyed a single galaxy on panel so what are you talking about?

Team stomps.

@asgardianbrony:

You haven't posted any scan with Odin destroying a galaxy.

The only thing you posted was a galaxy that was still there.

In that scan with the scients that you posted they are saying worlds and not even once galaxies are mentioned and if i'm not wrong it was confirmed that the planets were only covered in darkness and not destroyed.

Unlike you i wont be angry if someone proves me wrong but it's not my fault you all are making a terrible job proving Odin is a galaxy buster,

@asgardianbrony: That doesn't matter. Thor having thousands of years of experience doesn't make him a good fighter, does it?

Controlling Willpower is extremely difficult. Recruits can take years before making their first construct. Amazo did it on the spot, as soon as he scanned the ring. At his peak, he has all the powers of the JLA, which means he has the power of around 50 different Superheroes.

So let's list a small part of the power he has for this fight :

The Odin Force (as soon as he scans Odin)

Superhuman strenght (Superman, Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, Captain Atom, etc...)

The Quantum Field (Captain Atom)

Super-Speed (Flash, Superman, Captain Marvel)

Flight (Superman, etc...)

Energy projection (Firestorm, Captain Atom, Hal Jordan/Kyle Rayner)

Invulnerability (Superman, Captain Atom, Captain Marvel, Martian Manhunter)

Phasing (Flash, Martian Manhunter, Superman)

Magic resistance (Zauriel, Wonder Woman, etc...)

And that's just a small portion. I just want to add that AMAZO doesn't only replicate powers. He can replicate the skills as well such as all the fighting styles of Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Arrow, etc...

Odin isn't beating him. Specially since Amazo is going to have a clear advantage over him by having all these abilities + the Odin Force.

That's the AMAZO I am talking about (the scans aren't in order) :