True I will point out that Midnighter's battle computer does not automatically find a sure way to win. It gives him an approximation and options on how he could win. Here for example:
Gallery
Midnighter gambled his own life. It allowed him to win but he could have died. The computer does not give him a sure way to win. Midnighter still has to pull it off.
Not sure what you're getting at here. Midnighter said clearly that he found ways to win. I'm not sure where you see that he would have died. He could have stabbed her before she flew off. Winning wasn't the problem, the computer gave him ways to win, he just needed something beyond winning the fight, he needed her to talk. And really, I don't think he would have died if he fell from the sky. He has amazing durability and an incredible healing factor.
If that were true why did he put himself in a position were he could have been badly hurt? Instead of just doing that? None of the people he took down there were dead he could have interrogated another.
@Buckshot said:
It's not clear what Midnighter needs to start working. He may not need to see him with his eyes directly, in which case, viewing Spider-Man from the Carrier (which can open Doors to anywhere on the planet if he did need to lay eyes on him) could easily be enough. And even if he doesn't, actually look at him, he can get more than enough information to make plans for Spider-Man. He could win the fight using nothing more than what he had in Revolutions, his armor and a vial of nano-aids. His armor would make him more than able to take anything Spider-Man could make in a day, and the vial would shut down any tech Spider-Man brought to the fight. And this brings me to a question I often have in prep fights, what are they prepping for? What do the characters get to know about each other?
Unless i'm much mistaken he needs to physically see him as his computer scans the enemy predicting their power-set. Well current Spider-man has Doc Ock's mind and made carbonadium plate armor to protect himself beneath his suit to prtect himself off the bat. We've seen what Ock has been capable of achieving on his own. Taking over all of new york, creating a weapon capable of destroying the planet and mind controlling the Avengers. I don't think you'll argue with me that Ock and Peter's combined mind is far more effective with prep than Midnighter.
@Buckshot said:
Spider-Man's not going to be breaking his neck though... Conventional means are all well and good except that Midnighter typically sees them coming. Seth broke his neck because he was a walking plot device with thousands of powers (including intangibility, which meant Midnighter could never have hurt him). He was beyond Midnighter's ability to deal with. Spider-Man with a day of prep isn't, unless there's something to show that he is. And while Midnighter has access to Horizon, Midnighter has the Carrier and everything in Krigstein's labs.
Why won't Spider-man go for a neck break? He currently has a lot less morals and if he knows Midnighter can heal he's not going to hold back. Spider-man doesn't just have access to Horizon but also Octavius's labs and tech which are supposed to be superior to Horizon and already has Ock's pre-made tech stored in it.
If that were true why did he put himself in a position were he could have been badly hurt? Instead of just doing that? None of the people he took down there were dead he could have interrogated another.
Unless i'm much mistaken he needs to physically see him as his computer scans the enemy predicting their power-set. Well current Spider-man has Doc Ock's mind and made carbonadium plate armor to protect himself beneath his suit to prtect himself off the bat. We've seen what Ock has been capable of achieving on his own. Taking over all of new york, creating a weapon capable of destroying the planet and mind controlling the Avengers. I don't think you'll argue with me that Ock and Peter's combined mind is far more effective with prep than Midnighter.
Why won't Spider-man go for a neck break? He currently has a lot less morals and if he knows Midnighter can heal he's not going to hold back. Spider-man doesn't just have access to Horizon but also Octavius's labs and tech which are supposed to be superior to Horizon and already has Ock's pre-made tech stored in it.
You assume he would have been badly hurt. He's gone through a lot more than a high fall and been fine. Organs removed, neck broken, landed on by space ships, etc. Him falling would probably not be a big deal. Even him saying he wouldn't want to live in that world isn't really evidence he'd be hurt since Midnighter using psychological ploys is nothing new and that's a very basic bluff. So why did he let her take him into the sky if he didn't have to? Drama maybe, or maybe because he knew he'd get what he wanted. He got her to talk doing what he did and while it looks like he was in danger, if he was sure things would work out his way, then he wasn't really.
What's your support for exactly what the combat computer needs to work. Lemme see that and we'll talk more about it. I see nothing saying he needs to lay eyes on people directly for it work, especially when he's done things like know people were about to teleport into an area before they did, meaning he knew something was about to happen before any of the pieces were visible in front of him, or when he predicted an entire day that ended with him making out in space, something he wasn't seeing at the time. Stop telling me about what Ock has done with more than a day of prep and tell me things that are relevant. What's he going to do to Midnighter? What's he going to do that's not tech based? And that's relevant because Midnighter has nano-aids he could throw on whatever tech Spider-Man uses (and I very much doubt that would be something Spider-man is prepared for). What's he going to do to stop Midnighter from just Dooring away anything he brings or Dooring him to the bottom of the ocean? Spider-Man is good at prep, but how does he actually win this particular fight?
I wasn't saying he can't try to break Spider-Man's neck, I'm just saying it's not going to be successful.
You assume he would have been badly hurt. He's gone through a lot more than a high fall and been fine. Organs removed, neck broken, landed on by space ships, etc. Him falling would probably not be a big deal. Even him saying he wouldn't want to live in that world isn't really evidence he'd be hurt since Midnighter using psychological ploys is nothing new and that's a very basic bluff. So why did he let her take him into the sky if he didn't have to? Drama maybe, or maybe because he knew he'd get what he wanted. He got her to talk doing what he did and while it looks like he was in danger, if he was sure things would work out his way, then he wasn't really.
Fair point.
@Buckshot said:
What's your support for exactly what the combat computer needs to work. Lemme see that and we'll talk more about it. I see nothing saying he needs to lay eyes on people directly for it work, especially when he's done things like know people were about to teleport into an area before they did, meaning he knew something was about to happen before any of the pieces were visible in front of him, or when he predicted an entire day that ended with him making out in space, something he wasn't seeing at the time. Stop telling me about what Ock has done with more than a day of prep and tell me things that are relevant. What's he going to do to Midnighter? What's he going to do that's not tech based? And that's relevant because Midnighter has nano-aids he could throw on whatever tech Spider-Man uses (and I very much doubt that would be something Spider-man is prepared for). What's he going to do to stop Midnighter from just Dooring away anything he brings or Dooring him to the bottom of the ocean? Spider-Man is good at prep, but how does he actually win this particular fight?
I'll try and find the scan. I'm sure I saw somewhere that he has to use his computer to scan the opponent to know what they are capable of.
@Buckshot said:
Stop telling me about what Ock has done with more than a day of prep and tell me things that are relevant. What's he going to do to Midnighter? What's he going to do that's not tech based? And that's relevant because Midnighter has nano-aids he could throw on whatever tech Spider-Man uses (and I very much doubt that would be something Spider-man is prepared for).
I already did. In less than a day he had Carbonadium armor. Also all of Ock's tech (the thousands of octo-bots) are still operational (as seen in Spider-Island) he wouldn't need to do much as most of his tech is pre-built.
@Buckshot said:
What's he going to do to stop Midnighter from just Dooring away anything he brings or Dooring him to the bottom of the ocean? Spider-Man is good at prep, but how does he actually win this particular fight?
Ah forgot about doors. Yep Spider-man ain't winning with those about.
I'll try and find the scan. I'm sure I saw somewhere that he has to use his computer to scan the opponent to know what they are capable of.
@Buckshot said:
Stop telling me about what Ock has done with more than a day of prep and tell me things that are relevant. What's he going to do to Midnighter? What's he going to do that's not tech based? And that's relevant because Midnighter has nano-aids he could throw on whatever tech Spider-Man uses (and I very much doubt that would be something Spider-man is prepared for).
I already did. In less than a day he had Carbonadium armor. Also all of Ock's tech (the thousands of octo-bots) are still operational (as seen in Spider-Island) he wouldn't need to do much as most of his tech is pre-built.
@Buckshot said:
What's he going to do to stop Midnighter from just Dooring away anything he brings or Dooring him to the bottom of the ocean? Spider-Man is good at prep, but how does he actually win this particular fight?
Ah forgot about doors. Yep Spider-man ain't winning with those about.
Sure it scans his opponents, obviously it takes in some kind of input to calculate things, but how exactly that scan works is unexplained, at least as far as I'm recalling. And again, opening a Door where Spider-Man is would be effortless if looking at a visual on the Carrier isn't enough.
So he put Cabonadium armor on his neck, how does that stop him from dying if an explosive is shoved in his face? He could bring all his octobots into the fight and The Carrier could blast them from the sky and Midnighter could walk over in his suit he used to beat down on Apollo and beat the life out of Spider-Man.
Oh...So it wasnt the one I was thinking it was...It's a completely different example of Midnighter being completely ineffective against Martian Manhunter.
Man, I love it when even proving me wrong proves that I am right.
If your point was that Midnighter was ineffective against MM, you were right. However, if your point was to counter the original point that Midnighter can see weak points, you'd be incorrect since Midnighter did correctly find a weakpoint (and MM confirms it), the weak point was just moved before it could be used.
The point was that Midnighter is not infallible. In his first encounter with Manhunter he uses a Nerve Strike which was completely useless. In the other encounter, he did correctly deduce a weak point...but Manhunter was still able counter his attack.
I don't know why we're still talking about the Battle Computer if current Midnighter does not have it.
2) Midnighter Battle CPU had no clue MM would survive
3) Midinighter clearly doesn't understand WHY MM survived that blow easy which means neither does his ALL KNOWING CPU was clueless.
Midnighter is so overated with his CPU.....
Thanks for the clear cut scans.
That version of Midnighter isn't the one with an established combat computer so your complaints aren't really relevant. Also, Midnighter's weakness detection wasn't necessarily wrong. Manhunter had a weakness, he just moved it before it could be exploited.
I now that now. not the biggest DC reader at all but learn something new.
@Buckshot said:
@N0tS0An0nym0us said:
yeah, he kinda dropped the ball there.......also he's just blatantly lowballing and discrediting midnighter
I say Midnighter walks into the battle, shit stomps that poor spiderman and walks away like a boss. Even a Batman rip off is better than Spiderman at his best. No offense spiderman fans as god has punished you enough recently (you know exactly what I'm talking about) but with Midnighters computer and combat skills poor ol spidey is just a little outclasses here.
@mischief666 Spidey would ROFL stomp Batman so I don't know what you are trying to get at. Btw Midnighter no longer has his battle computer in the New 52 an another thing how is Midnighter in anyway shape or form like Batman? Mignighter would ROLF stomp him as well.
I'd give it to Midnighter. Spidey's senses and intelligence would make it close but in the end I think Midnighter's foresight and tactical brilliance would win the day.
Log in to comment