Middle-Earth vs Tamriel

@hewhohatesfanboys:It was part of that questline. You need to talk to Arniel Gaine. The part with Keening is called "Arniel's Endeavor". He tries to figure out what happened to the Dwemer by trying to recreate the same circumstances using a special soul gem he had made (which he makes you go around to transmute) and one of the three artifacts created by Kagrenac (Keening).

Also, I would say Jyggalag wasn't at full bore and wouldn't make a difference seeing as the Hero was being amped by Sheogorath to do the job anyway. Really doesn't matter since the Hero of Kvatch, aka Champion of Cyrodill (#7) effectively became Sheogorath (or at least his Avatar) and would pretty much make Middle-Earth his personal playground.

Similarly the Nerevarine would be empowered by Azura to defeat the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur who've been using the power of the Heart of Lorkhan to make themselves gods. With TES, if it's not a Daedric Prince, it's a Divine that's juicing the Main Character up to defeat some world-ending threat. And they get the job done too.

Dragon born solos

Champion solos

Nerv might solo ( not as familiar) combined they Stomp on all of their armies

@cjdavis103: Ya know, Dovahkiin could just call down Hakon, Felldir and Gormlaith from Sovngarde and get the Greybeards together for a combination Fus Ro Dah with Paarthurnax backing them up. Think about that. The Ancient Tongues + Greybeards + Paarthurnax + Dovahkiin all shouting at once.

@reikai: Seriously that is like bringing artillery to a knife fight

@cjdavis103: Hey we are still using knives. They're just 20x bigger and explode on impact.

@reikai: really I was think about the combined boom that will level everything from the shire to mordor and probably wreck all of nature at the same time that is the definition of overkill

@cjdavis103: Oh but we weren't even adding Miraak to that, nor Alduin nor the rest of the Dragons like Odahviing and Durnehviir, or the Voice Masters who were trained as well and hunted down the Dragon Clan. Oh and of course the rest of the Dragon Priests who could use the Thu'um too. Hell even Ulfric Stormcloak could use a few.

@reikai: I think we have this covered already anyone with knowledge of TES lore knows TLOR is screwed over

hell they can only point out speculations at best on the wizards and there big guns Suron and the frist are .... rather lacking in feats

honestly any of the champions of Tamrile can solo this let alone an army

and this is not including the Goddamn numdien a giant freaking super robot/golem which can solo all the armies of Mordor and still have power left over to take helms deep

@cjdavis103: Goodbye Middle-Earth.

@reikai:

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@cjdavis103: What makes that even funnier...is you can get Lich King armor via mods in Skyrim.

@reikai: nice

The Witch-Kings prophecy isn't bullshit. It's true. If you can't handle that, it's you're problem.

You really don't know much about the first age, do you? Do you really think the Sun and the Moon were actual sized lamps? And did you ever hear of Varda? I don't think so, but let me explain: She made the stars. And there is atleast one moon, pushed by the Maia Tilion.

Depends on the strategics.

Don't think so.

Eru is omnipotent. Where did you get the nonsense that he created a universe the size of the Earth? He created everything. Sounds like omnipotence to me.

If you want to talk about that: The soul of every person that dies goes to the halls of Mandos. They can be released if wished for. Thus also having Túrin Turambar with his black sword Gurthang that kills everything it ''bites'' (stabs). And ofcourse many, many more powerful man like Fëanor; creator of the three Silmarils and the best crafter amongst the Elves and all mortals.

Divine Crusader Pelinal Whitestrake, will come back from the dead to clean house with his Divineness!

Aragon summons army of the dead rofl stomp

@arathorn_ii: The Witch King's prophecy was soooo solid, yet it was passed by semantics. Gotcha. Well going by the "I am no man" rule; Tamriel is big on bigender armies. It isnt patriarchal like lotr is. So bring the Witch King; if Eowyn can take him, im sure a Nord woman could make him her new Dobby.

Should we rant on about who in comics can easily form universes, yet theyre nit omnipotent? Him creating a universe sounds like he can make a universe; it doesnt allude at all to omnipotence.

@loplopool: Dovahkiin casts "Bane of the Dead". Aragorn's Ghost Army is wiped out. Or Alduin just eats them all. Or Durnehviir rips control of them away and makes them rip Aragorn to pieces. Or any number of other things really.

The Ghost Army is utterly useless next to the sheer number of Conjurer's and Necromancers in TES. Nvm figures like Potema the Wolf Queen and Manimarco who're two of the most powerful Necromancers in Tamrielic history, both with connections to Daedra.

@reikai: Or, or....Argonians. :P

@wolfrazer: Yeah Argonians solo Middle-Earth. They're so badass that two Dragonborns in Two eras wouldn't send their armies in the inner marshes and swamps of Black Marsh. That'd be Reman Cyrodill (2nd Era) and Tiber Septim (3rd era).

@reikai: Plus them having Sithis/Hist, Shadowscales, direct connection with the Brotherhood..yep..could do nicely.

@wolfrazer: Or Khajiit could just get all of ME addicted to Skooma and it'd be all over.

@reikai: SKOOMA! That would be hilarious lol.

@loplopool:

Dov shouts Bend will LOTR gets swarmed by it's own ghost army GG

Any Mage uses rebuke undead GG army

the champion uses a full power large AOE ruke udead and sends them all packing]

Ghost get killed by silver/magic weapons the companions solo

@darkbiscuit: Wait any man? then any elf or beast folk could kill him regardless of gender! he is even less of a threat then i thought

@arathorn_ii:

if Eru is omnipotient that makes all of the aedra ( the nine) omnipotent, and Daedric princes omnipotent as well that gives TES a huge number edge each of which has similar power to him

TES takes all rounds with limited difficulty

@cjdavis103: the prophecy was made by...glorindell? I forget how to spell it (also not 100% positive on it being hime...more like 90%). He defeated the Witch King and then prophesized that "it is likely that no mortal man will ever kill him". Bawically any woman can, and any nonhuman.

Basically only 3 races of Tamriel cant, and at that only a third of them (assuming 1/3 kids, 1/3 female, 1/3 male

@cjdavis103: Ya know that's another thing that made me think with the other thread. Get the Psijic's involved. They have the Eye of Magnus and only the Dovahkiin can control it with the Staff of Magnus. He uses it and wipes out all of Middle-Earth. And for the hell of it, combines with the Wabbajack to turn every living thing and creature in Middle-Earth into Sweet Rolls.

@darkbiscuit: considering he was only killed by being stabled in the face i would not put it past some kids killing him as well ( altimer kids would burn him alive)

@reikai: I am starting to feel bad for LOTR frist they where being soled by three beings , then they are getting shouted to tiny pieces then we had a giant super mecha soloing them and now we have the 10th divine the last dragonborn kicking there faces in and wabajack tea baging them

@cjdavis103:

@darkbiscuit: considering he was only killed by being stabled in the face i would not put it past some kids killing him as well ( altimer kids would burn him alive)

Or Braith from Whiterun runs up screaming "I'm not afraid of you! Ya know, even if you are my elder!" and smashes him in the face with a rock which kills him.

was it gender and race? or is it only a certin period of time of a male?

@cjdavis103: Think it was only Male Gender of Humans. It wasn't exactly clear. Not that it ever mattered.

@reikai: Okay so basically he is fu**ed in TES

According to Tolkien, LOTR takes in our Earth, Arda = Earth, just countless ages ago. Kind of like how Star Wars takes place in our universe, but "a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away..." Since the Middle-Earth timeline does technically include modern times (Seventh Age), Middle-Earth stomps (Round 1 at least) using modern weapons tech.

@cjdavis103: Absolutely. The Orc kids will beat him up, the Khajiit kids will steal all his shinies, the elvish kids will all mock his poor a$$ magic, and then the Argonian kids will drag'im into the marshes and tear him to pieces.

@cjdavis103: Only a man of the human race cant. Falmer, Orcs, Altmer, etc, are all fine

@princearagorn1: What is an alt? The artwork is awesome btw, but it should not be used for size measurements. I won't claim to be a LOTR lore master, but I doubt ancalagon is more than two miles long at most. No way are his claws as big as mount everest.

@reikai: I think that the champion eventually became like a daedric prince in power, but he definitely did not fight jyggalag at full power. I agree with you, planet busting heroes sound like a bit too much.

@arathorn_ii:

... Seriously?

Fine, the Witch King is immortal, and so are Dragonborn, Nerevar, CoC, tribunal, and dagoth ur are completely immortal to anyone from LOTR, as they too are protected by bullshit prophecies.

Claiming Eru is omnipotent after he created all matter in LOTR, which is the approximate amount of all matter on Earth plus it's atmosphere. And claiming valar created real life multi million kilometer wide fireballs in the infinite void. Wow. This shows a MASSIVE lack of knowledge about Arda's cosmology, and this is exactly what I was talking about when I said LOTR wank everywhere.

"She made the stars"? Really? stars are candles in LOTR verse, the best valar feats are, IIRC, mountain or island busting. Hell, the entire valar council needed to use Iluvatar to split one measly planet, which is also the only planet in existance. They get shitstomped against any daedra god, or aedra for that matter.

Sauron is immortal only before he made the ring. i guess he is immortal in this battle, since lore wise he is only locked away in the void, so w/e.

Alduin is immortal. So are every daedra ever. Dagoth Ur is semi immortal (kinda like sauron with ring), Sithis is eternal, CoC is immortal, but I guess he does not count, being a god post oblivion. Dragons are immortal, and can be ressurected over and over again unless killed by dragonborn.

TES outclasses LOTR in every category. Ancalagon just might be able to take the Empire of Tamriel, shattered as it is, plus the aldmeri dominion, assuming no nerevar, CoC, or dovahkiin, but that's it really. If any of these factions are extremely competent, they would also tear Ancalagon.

This battle is a low fantasy setting with minimal magical power against a high fantasy setting loaded with fairly common mages. It's not even a fair fight.

Lord of the Rings has no answer to the immense magical power TES has going for it. At least not in the Third Age.

If you go with the First Age of Middle Earth back when there were armies of Balrogs and dragons, giant werewolves, vampires, and all manner of other supernatural creature LOTR Might, MIGHT have a chance. But even then it's extremely doubtful.

I'm not going to touch on the gods vs gods fight, as that just gets hairy and hard to argue.

Though I do feel like a few users are massively wanking ES and vastly underestimating some of the stronger LOTR beings. C'mon guys, you don't need to be dicks about it.

@metaljimmor: Daedric princes creating planets is canon, or at the very very least, them completely transforming planets is, so I am not sure who you are accusing of wanking ES.

Azura altered an entire race of beings utterly casually (was she even on the same planet at the time?)

Lorkhan created Nirn, or maybe, just maybe, at the very least, Nirn used to be a lifeless rock and he created all life. Highly doubt the latter scenario though.

LOTR has no powerful beings. NONE of the valar feats remotely approach the full power of daedric princes, if going by their lore feats. The oblivion mehrunes dagon, as well as the battlespire one was a depowered avatar.

I'm just going to say that actual high end daedra feats have ten or eleven of them sacrificing most of their power to create the universe, and becoming the divines. Magnus withdrew from this creation, and Lorkhan died somehow? In any case, this is a far greater feat than the creation of LOTR's tiny universe, which literally is a planet plus trees to represent moon and sun.

@hewhohatesfanboys:

I said I wasn't touching on the gods bit, but I'll throw this out there. The Daedric Princes didn't create planets, they made their planes, which are also the seats of their power. The Princes don't have that level of power outside of their planes. The only actual planet creation feat in ES was the creation of Mundus, which resulted in eight of the gods "dying" to create it.

I was referring to the people saying the various heroes could solo the entire Middle Earth universe. That is wanking.

@metaljimmor: Well, CoC is sheogorath so...yeah.

Dovahkiin defeated a guy threatening to destroy two worlds. Apparently he could also shout apart mountains? I just heard this somewhere, but is there any truth to that?

Nerevarine killed a few false gods, nothing too special. These minor gods could sink islands however, which are, AFAIK, higher end maiar feats.

I think they can solo LOTR verse, minus gods. CoC, being sheogorath should be able to solo gods, if he is anywhere near the same level of power as other daedric princes.

Mundus is the solar system, right? Still a bit bigger than Eru's creations, but I like how it does not completely conflict with power levels of other daedra.

Aren't the divines still alive? Pretty sure they were just permanently depowered from creating the solar system, not actually ceasing to exist.

@hewhohatesfanboys: The Princes rearrange entire planes of existence for kicks. Lorkhan tricked the Aedra into creating the Mortal Realm (Mundus) and Nirn, and they "killed" him for it. Universe didn't exist until the Aedra created it. And the Aedra and Daedra didn't exist until Sithis created them. Sithis is the Void from which all things came to be.

@hewhohatesfanboys:

CoC is fair since he did become a Daedric Prince, but then he shouldn't be considered for the first round given he's a god. And unless the Princes are given their full power as if they were in their own realms I don't think Sheo could solo the entire divine cast of Lord of the Rings alone.

Dovahkiin's mountain busting is largely speculation to be honest. We won't know what the full extent of his lore power is until ES:6 when we can get lore books describing him. He's also technically a divine being as he is a dovah, and thus an et'ada or immortal spirit created by Akatosh. Though he's also mortal. He should have a hard time going against the likes of the Witch King if we take some of the Witch King's "Feats" literally. He certainly shouldn't solo the Witch King and the other eight Nazgul, along with an army of balrogs and the Istari together. Dragonborn may be the strongest being Middle Earth has seen since Morgoth, but there are those in the world close to him in power and in much greater numbers. Dragonborn also isn't immune to mind altering powers as far as I know, in which case Sarumon or any dragon could really mess with him.

Actually I know Dragonborn has fallen prey to a mind control effect in the Dragonborn DLC. I know he found a way to resist it but I can't recall how. *Strokes beard* Anyone remember?

Thus....we have the bad**** that are the Argonians! XD

/Is a big Argonian fan obviously.

Argonians are clearly the superior race in Tamriel. There is no contestation.

@metaljimmor: In their element they're the best. But the same goes for Khajiit. Argonians outside of Black Marsh are a bit easier to handle. They're damn strong when using the Hist Sap. But Khajiit are always beastly. Better than Bosmer in the trees, and better H2H than Nords and Orcs. And of course Khajiit coming in like a dozen+ varieties gives them a diversity advantage.

@reikai:

Very true. I always roll argonian myself, but you have to respect a race like khajiit who ride into battle on other members of their species!

Then again Bosmer can just enact the Wyld Hunt and go on another megamonster rampage. Easily my favorite race of mer.

There's not many fantasy settings with a cast of races as interesting as TES. There's something for everyone, and all the races are fairly well balanced so there isn't one group obviously dominating the rest in every category.

But argonians will always have a special place in my heart. Not even Mehrunes Dagon could succeed in invading Black Marsh. Not to mention the argonians going on to invade Oblivion itself! A united argonian army under the Hist is terrifying.

@metaljimmor: Well the Hist did warn them of what was going to happen so instead of the Argonians getting surprised, like everyone else on Tamriel, they got a preemptive strike on the Daedra by rushing in. Foresight is a good thing to have to avoid violation by a demonic army.

@reikai:

Very true. I can't wait for a game set in Black Marsh. There's still so much we don't know about their culture, religion, and even biology. It makes roleplaying one extremely difficult, and I'm the sort who likes to give my characters personalities and backstories.

@metaljimmor: As much as we'd like that, I would actually love to go across the ocean and dig all around Akavir and get the full story there and see all the races there, instead of just going by a dozen or so contradicting mythos about it.

They say that all of Man was eaten by the Snake-People, but how does anyone know if no one ever goes there? It sounds a lot more like tales to frighten people off so they don't go to check it out than actually ground in fact.