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#1 Edited by DireDrill (2483 posts) - - Show Bio


This is the Triskelion. Inside, at it's very core, is Wanda Maximoff. Arguably by the consequences of her action, she is one of the most prolific murderers on the planet. Now she must face judgement.

Employed by Roma, Guardian of the Omniverse, Team 1 must infiltrate the Triskelion from two miles out, aboard a reserve Quinjet. Once inside, they must outmaneuver or out right kill the opposing team before kidnapping (Or killing) Wanda Maximoff and getting her back to the Quinjet whereby they shall all be teleported to the Starlight Citadel. However, a number of situtional hazards are gonna make this difficult. Firstly, her cell is Teleport proof. Aka, you can just 'port in and out'. Furthemore, the Triskelion has defenses and Team 2 know that someone is about to stage a kidnapping of Wanda Maximoff so it's gonna be tough.

Team 2 alternate objectives, as employed by Nick Fury are slightly different. They need to stop the assault, protect Wanda and ideally annihilate as much of the team as possible. They are given total executive control over the Raft, and 20 shield agents from which to assist them in their responsibilities.

Oh, and both teams only have 1 hour to complete there objectives.

Team 1: Juiceboks

  • Armor
  • Warlock
  • Cannonball
  • Cable (Not Saviour)
  • Absorbing Man
  • Beast Boy

Team 1 Objective

  • Kidnap or Kill Wanda Maximoff from her Cell in the Triskelion (In the event of Team 1 winning, providing they can prove they can kidnap Wanda they shall be rewarded)

Team 1 Bonuses

  • 1 hours full prep with dossiers of the location, and their opponents. Access to gear must be realistic

Team 2: DireDrill

  • Joshua Coldrake
  • Amanda Sefton
  • Criti Noll Impersonating Hank Pym
  • Grimlock
  • Leech
  • Moondragon

Team 2 Objective

  • Prevent the kidnapping or death of Wanda (Team 2 get a bonus if they can wipe out the entire opposing team)

Team 2 Bonuses

  • 2 Hours at the Triskelion getting to know the layout etc and set up defenses. However, they are unaware of who EXACTLY will be attacking. Access to external gear must be feasible.

Triskelion Defenses

  • Your standard Turrents
  • Lockdown Doors
  • 20 Armed Shield Personal
  • Wanda's Prison
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#2 Posted by DireDrill (2483 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks As I am on defense I am going to go ahead and lay out my defense so you do not have to guess at it.

Now my team is essentially filled with good guys or bad guys impersonating good guys. Criti Noll and Jimaine Szardos aka Amanda Sefton are both impersonating people who are known to be good guys so they will have no problem working and fitting in with the rest of my guys.

Now I have roughly 2 hours prep to set up my defenses. So first and foremost, I make sure that Wanda is out of most people's reach by shrinking her prison down to the size of an ant with Pym Particles and placed firmly in Leech's pocket. Amanda will then use her magic to make Leech look like your average guard through magic and have him patrol an empty storage part of the Triskelion. Joshua Coldrake will be with Wanda at a shrunken size Amanda will then take Wanda's place again using her magic to disguise herself as Wanda. They will put her in a similar cell to Wanda's and place all the guards and turrets around her.

The next thing is I have Grimlock wade into the water around the Triskelion where Criti again uses Pym Particles to enlarge him to giant size but not over the limits set forth in the tourney rules. He is already one of the more powerhouse of Transformers so he will become incredibly powerful at giant size. He'll be guarding the exterior along with Criti Noll who will also be giant sized. Criti will tell everyone that he is testing a new device that grants him density control and super speed so that he can use Quicksilver's speed and Vision's density control without anyone suspecting that he isn't who he says he is.

Moondragon will link up my entire team with a TP Link as well as provide telepathic defense for her team. Moondragon is a massively powerful telepath who was able to get into the mind of Galactus himself. So her TP protection should hold even against some of the more powerful telepaths.

As you can tell none of my defenses are set up to defend against any particular threat but really a more general threat.

Good luck getting in. :)

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#3 Posted by mrtrevorguy (1348 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice deffence

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#4 Posted by Sovereign91001 (6771 posts) - - Show Bio

This one should prove very interesting, best of luck to you both

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#5 Edited by Juiceboks (18262 posts) - - Show Bio

Very creative. You choose your team very wisely and it definitely shows.

Because my team is heavily composed of people who have been or are currently X-Men, they should get access to certain things available at the X Mansion. Say..Cerebra? Though obviously they cant take it with them, an hour is more than enough time for Cable to teleport to the X Mansion and use it to scan every mind on Triskelion. Normally yes Moondragon should be able to block her team from TP assaults, but with Cerebra Cable should atleast be able to tell who is on Triskelion and where. Especially Leech and Wanda who are both mutants which Cerebra was built to locate in the first place. Through Beast's help, Cerebra became capable of overpowering Magneto's TP shields easy which even Charles couldnt penetrate. So, if even for a second, Cable should be able to tell who is who while still not breaking the shield she put over them all. So no mind alteration or anything like that.

Once he's done with that, he ports back and lets everyone know where they are(at the very least he will know that Leech is disguised as a guard alone and Wanda is in his pocket). Now comes the infiltration. Grimlock even regular size is hard to miss so either BB or Cable will easily locate him and Criti in the water via their respective abilities a mile away. Then what happens is BB turns into a small fish and carries a tiny Warlock in a chip in his mouth(which serves no purpose other than to house Warlock) and makes his way to Grimlock where he can slightly brush up against him(I doubt a giant Transformer is gonna notice a half a foot long fish in the water with other fish of similar size swimming by) allowing Warlock to take over his body and turn him on Criti(thus distracting him and allowing the Quinjet a safer travel). Absorbing Man at the same time will have turned into water and quickly worked his way through the sewage pipes until he hits an electrical cable inside the prison. All the while Cable, Armor, and Cannonball are flying in their Quinjet at full speed headed straight for the prison. Once they crash and explode upon the surface, they will emerge from the crash site completely unharmed due to a TK shield via Cable. Just before they crash, Absorbing Man will have taken on the properties of an electric current and shortcircuited the whole building. That means no turrets, no lights, and no locked doors. So while the three of your team plus S.H.I.E.L.D scramble to fight the three of my team(assuming Leech would stay put for fear of putting Wanda in danger or maybe run to another safe location), Absorbing Man continues to travel throughout the prison (still in electricity form) until he finds Leech and turns into say..living plasma and fries them both.

I realize Creel is a villian and not a very smart one, but with some "persuasion" courtesy of Cable, I'm sure he would come around.

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#6 Posted by DireDrill (2483 posts) - - Show Bio

The main problem with your post is that Backflip limited the scenario to a 2 mile radius from the Triskelion so I don't think you'll have access to Cerebra. Secondly, Cerebra does not exist in the Ultimate Universe where this takes place so at best you'll have Cerebro and the Ultimate Version of Cerebro is only really capable of detecting mutants. So Cable won't be learning of anything that is going on because Moondragon will have shut him down without any problem so you'll be completely unaware of just where Wanda is much less that I have created a ruse.

Secondly, since Cable is lacking in Cerebra, he won't be able to shield his entire team against Moondragon. As I said earlier, Moondragon broke into Galactus' mind so she'll be able to at the very least detect Beast Boy's approach and convey the information to Amanda who will teleport him into Limbo taking Warlock and Beastboy out of the equation for the moment. Creel also gets detected and Grimlock will incinerate his watery form. At this point, Creel will have to assume another form. Grimlock should be able to keep him from entering the facility without much problem.

Criti will smell your Quinjet's afterburners coming from a mile away with Black Panther's super sense of smell. He will then grab it out of the sky and tear it apart using Quicksilver's speed. He then goes super dense and knocks Cannonball out as he takes flight and then grabs Armor and tosses her into the air. Cable will be sent scrambling but will likely right himself with TK only for Criti's superfast superdense arm to come crashing into him. None of them have a chance of taking on Criti because of his speed, strength, and density control. Cable's TP will be useless on Criti because of the Skrull Impersonation tech he is employing. When Cable tries to read his mind, all he will get is Hank Pym's mind not Criti allowing him to act with impunity.

All in all, my team can dispatch yours without much issue and then use Pym Particles to imprison them. Your team gets mopped up without having to kill them maintaining Criti and Amanda's cover.

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#7 Posted by Backflip (2287 posts) - - Show Bio

The main problem with your post is that Backflip limited the scenario to a 2 mile radius from the Triskelion so I don't think you'll have access to Cerebra. Secondly, Cerebra does not exist in the Ultimate Universe where this takes place so at best you'll have Cerebro and the Ultimate Version of Cerebro is only really capable of detecting mutants. So Cable won't be learning of anything that is going on because Moondragon will have shut him down without any problem so you'll be completely unaware of just where Wanda is much less that I have created a ruse.

No, I said once the scenario starts you're only allowed within a 2 mile radius. Before that, anything feasible as far as prep goes is allowed. Also this isn't the Ultimate Universe solely, think of it more as an amalgamated universe with bits and pieces from every fictional universe :P

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#8 Posted by DireDrill (2483 posts) - - Show Bio

Well that changes things. I thought that we were limited so I didn't gather anything. I'll have to redo my defense strategy then.

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#9 Posted by Juiceboks (18262 posts) - - Show Bio

Well as Backflip already stated, Cable can use Cerebra to give my team an advantage. So with said machine giving my team a TP shield as well as a little intel on atleast two of your teams whereabouts, the plan continues.

Moondragon wont be able to detect BB so he continues to swim swiftly as a tiny fish and gives Grimlock the Warlock treatment. Now Criti is distracted with Grimlock so he wont notice the Quinjet coming in. Even if he did, TK is possibly Cable's strongest power. All he has to do is force him underwater and asphyxiate him for a little bit.


http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/9409/cable10620xj8.jpg This is what he did when he let loose only a small fraction of his TK.


Also, Moondragon entering the mind of Galactus. If this is what youre refering to, then she didnt just simply breach his mental defenses. She assisted Thanos in this process who has proven to be her mental superior several times. I think its also noteworthy to say that he wasnt resisting their communication. They were having a simple conversation not a mental battle(the battle happens later).

Also you said Grimlock can incinerate Creel in water form. Theyre all in the ocean. How is he gonna vaporize someone who's not only in water..but essentially part of it?

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#10 Edited by DireDrill (2483 posts) - - Show Bio

So as I was reading the Esquire and Sovereign's thread I noted that Backflip said that Pre-Hacking was outside of what you can do with prep. That should apply to Pre-Mind Hacking as well meaning that you can't use your prep time to read my mind. In addition to that as he stated up in his previous post you have to be within a 2 mile radius around the Triskelion when the battle starts so in order for Cable to use Cerebra he would have to move it to within 2 miles of the Triskelion. Cerebra isn't exactly mobile and a giant ball appearing 2 miles away from the Triskelion will alert both Grimlock and Criti with their giant eyes. Criti wil be able to super speed phase right through it and knock Cable out before he can do anything leaving your team vulnerable to Moondragon who should easily mind rape them. Given these new restrictions, Cerebra won't be of much use to you.

Without Cerebra, Moondragon will detect your approach and again use Amanda to BFR BB and Warlock and Grimlock to incinerate Creel. Grimlock breathes plasmic fire and since he is giant it will be in a large area of effect instantly evaporating a large section of water like Godzilla. Creel doesn't have any super senses so he would have to be near the surface of the water to see where he was going leaving him vulnerable to this attack. Since Criti is not distracted with Grimlock, he will be able to take your Quinjet apart.

Now since I now know that I can leave the Triskelion during prep, I'll have Amanda teleport Criti into the Baxter Building. Hank has been here many times so it shouldn't attack him and in fact should be quite helpful. Amanda will also teleport Criti to South America to pick up some Army Ants. He'll quickly disconnect the Negative Zone portal, shrink it, and have Amanda teleport him back. He'll reactivate the Negative Zone portal but leave it at about 3 inches tall. He'll put the portal in a shrunken room with a 3 inch door and fill the room with Army Ants. Leech and Joshua Coldrake will be waiting at the portal shrunken waiting for the battle to start. They will then enter the portal taking with them the shrunken cell of Wanda Maximoff and the portal control device. Since only 2 of your team members can even get into the room, they will have to fight through my swarm of Army Ants to get to the portal and then will have to find a way to activate it with the control device. Good luck considering no one on your team has the expertise needed to do so. Between Moondragon's TP and Criti's Skrull Tech, you won't be able to pluck that information from Criti's mind to use especially in just 1 hour. Even if you know my plan ahead a time, there is nothing you can do about it.

Let's assume you have Cerebra and can use it to stop Moondragon from detecting Beast Boy's approach with Warlock. If you end up taking over Grimlock then Amanda will just teleport Grimlock and Warlock into Limbo leaving you only 1 person capable of getting to the portal. Without Grimlock distracting Criti he'll be able to smell your Quinjet coming and take out all of your guys with superfast, super strong, super dense blows. Cannonball and Armor will likely be taken out quickly while Cable may put up more of a fight. Cable's TK is strong but it isn't enough to do anything against Criti's size and density control. Should he run into trouble, Amanda can always swap out and use her magic to take him out. Cable has no real defense against magic so he'll be incredibly susceptible to her power. Without Cable running their TP defense, Moondragon detects and incapacitates Beast Boy and Absorbing Man before they can cause much problem.

All in all, my teams high level of versatility gives them the flexibility needed to react to pretty much any and all of your potential attacks regardless of how much knowledge your team has on my plans.

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#11 Edited by Juiceboks (18262 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay a few things.

1. My main use for Cerebra would be to simply LOCATE your team members. I'm not going to alter their minds or anything just get to know exactly where they are all positioned. I dont need to bring Cerebra with me as Cable can teleport.

2. You said Amanda could just port my team to Limbo as she pleased. How is she gonna port someone she cant see? BB is underwater so she wouldnt know where he is. Also didnt she lose that ability when Illyana drove her out? Correct me if I'm wrong but I dont think she has any control over Limbo anymore. Anyway lets say she and Cable do battle it out. He can insta kill her in many ways such as choking, excite her molecules until she blows up, or break all the bones in her body and leave her to drown in the ocean. All of these he could do with a simple thought so I see her going down very quickly in this scenario.

3. You underestimate Cable's TK abilities as well as Cannonball's abilities. Criti's powers of density control will not help him if Cable decides to hold him underwater. Actually making him heavier will make him sink as both he and Grimlock are wading in the water. Cannonball can move at supersonic speeds so he can easily avoid Criti's punches. Though he wouldnt have to due to his force field protecting him from harm while in flight. As a matter of fact, he could just let Criti try and punch him, absorb it, and knock him down with the increased kinetic energy. If he can do it to Gladiator he can do it to Criti.

4. Unless Grimlock can breathe fire in a 360 degree arc there is no guarantee he will even hit Creel. Even in the event he does manage to affect him, remember they're surrounded by water. So unless you vaporize the whole ocean, Creel will just reform and continue to short circuit the island. And with the TP shield intact courtesy of Cable, Moondragon wont be mind destoying anyone unless he is taken down.

5. Also i'm pretty sure Wanda's cell is teleport proof. @backflip correct me if I'm wrong in this but Wanda cant just be ported to another dimension before the fight starts. And lets say you do manage to port her to the Negative Zone, now you have beings like Maximus and Annihulus to fight and I highly doubt Leech and Josh can protect Wanda from villians of their caliber. The whole point is for you to protect her not put her in more danger.

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#12 Posted by DireDrill (2483 posts) - - Show Bio

You misunderstand me, Cable can't use Cerebra to spy on me during your prep phase. When the Battle starts he has to be within 2 miles of the Triskelion so he either has to bring Cerebra with him or he has to teleport to Cerebra and put the helmet on. While he is teleporting, he leaves his team open to Mind Rape which Moondragon can do easily within two miles in seconds. You either lose your team using Cerebra or bring it with you and lose it anyway. Regardless, Cerebra is functionally useless for you. You really think that Cerebra is equipped to deal with Amanda's Magic? Her illusions should fool even Cerebra because it is not set up to defeat magic.

I stated in the signup thread, that I specifically wanted the Amanda that was wielding the Soulsword as I wanted a replacement for Magik, so I got the second Magik. Cable can try and take her out but the person he ends up taking out is an illusion as countless illusions plague him. He has no defense against magical illusion so he won't be able to tell witch one is witch. Clever wordplay! He'll be completely disabled as he fights demons that don't exist. But I doubt it would come to that. Amanda can actually BFR your entire team the second they are detected. I could cause the Quinjet to fly right into limbo.

Criti will have 100+ Ton strength and super speed, Cable isn't fast enough to stop him from smacking him around. Cannonball won't expect his Quinjet to be taken apart and have to react quickly. Cannonball will be knocked into the water and he'll either be KOed or have to catch Armor who is going high into the air. Cannonball may move at supersonic speeds but he doesn't think at supersonic speeds, not like Criti. Remember, none of the people on your team are as fast as Quicksilver so none of them will be able to even touch Criti when he goes on the attack.

Moondragon will tell Grimlock where to aim. Creel is not a fast guy so he won't be moving at a high speed. He won't be able to reform because he will be mist now and in gaseous forms and even water, he has to focus in order to hold cohesion. This is when Moondragon or Amanda strikes by breaking that focus.

Wanda's cell is teleport proof, meaning you can't teleport into it. It does not mean that it can't be carried through a portal. Also, at 3 inches tall neither Maximus or Annihilus will even notice the portal much less Leech or Josh.

My team is designed to counter pretty much any threat so I don't think your team which is geared more toward physical combat is going to stop them.

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#13 Edited by Juiceboks (18262 posts) - - Show Bio



The fact that she has the SS doesnt make up for the fact that Limbo is sealed off. She cant send people there as she has no control over it so no BFR to another dimension. As far as her casting illusions on him..http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/Rewmac/Scans/soldierx_v2_011_22_rougher.jpg He can do the exact same thing with no effort. Didnt you yourself say that mindrape prebattle is prohibited? So there's nothing stopping him from porting to Cerebra, using it to locate your team, and port back to the field to convey the information. So he will in fact still have the TP shield on so my team still has the element of surprise.


Again..you underestimate the skills of my team members. The fact that Criti has Quicksilvers speed means very little to Cable. In Cable and Deadpool #5 he fights and defeats Lightmaster. As his name suggests, he moves and thinks as fast as light. Yet Nathan still manages to BFR him to the moon. Someone that moves at lightspeed vs someone who can go Mach 5 at best? Yea he shouldnt be much of a problem. He can dispatch him multiple ways just like Amanda. Again, no effort and he holds back. His strength wont prevent him from getting choked to death. Plus, it isnt like Cable hasnt fought powerhouses before *cough* Hulk *cough*..Sam is alot faster than you think. He reacts at supersonics speed to match his flight speed just by willing it. He demonstrates it in pretty much all his big fights. Gladiator especially. Even if he didnt, Criti's punches cant do anything against him once he's in flight. Actually it would only make knocking him out all the easier(granted Cable hasnt already).

Grimlock hitting Creel with plasmic fire(granted he COULD blast him) would leave Creel with the option to turn into said plasmic fire thus rendering it useless. The thing with being giant sized is..you cant really sneak up on someone. Grimlock is huge and my team already knows he's there. You cant pull a surprise attack on anyone using Criti or Grimlock it just wont work out.

Your team is good, but with Moondragon unable to tell where my team is, they cant do half the things you said as easily as they normally would(if at all). My team excels in physical combat as well as covering the basics. Magic is your only chance and as I stated, Cable can deal with one sorceress who's still human.

Sure you may allude Annihulus's grasp, but what about the Tyanna? Or any of the other residents in the Negative Zone? Being as small as they are, whats stopping someone from accidentally stepping on them? A piece of debris floating by and crushing them? A strong wind blowing by and sending them falling into the abyss? My point is that they would be in even more danger in the Negative Zone being their size so porting there isnt a good idea.

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#14 Posted by DireDrill (2483 posts) - - Show Bio

Cable can't teleport into the Cerebra Helmet, his teleportation is very clumsy. He will need to teleport near the helmet and move towards it and put it on, this will take several seconds. During this couple of seconds he cannot provide his team with TP shields because he does not have that range. He will be upwards of 50 miles away. In that moment, your team has 0 TP defense. If you teleport to Cerebra you leave your team with 0 TP defense. Moondragon will mindrape your team the second Cable leaves. So take your pick, lose your whole team or locate my team. I leave the choice to you. Unless you can show that Cable can maintain his TP over a long range, your team is sunk if Cable leaves even for a second.

Cable can't use any illusions here because Moondragon will be providing TP defense on top of whatever magic TP defense Amanda would have cast on herself. None of Cable's illusion casting will work.

Lightmaster's fight with Cable really demonstrated nothing. He caught Lightmaster monologuing and somehow used debris to trap a guy made of light and the teleported into orbit. He then tells the guy he is with how long it will take Lightmaster to get back meaning he knew when to react. Nothing there demonstrates he could react to Criti. You can't choke a Skrull because they can always change how there body is oriented internally. He fought the Hulk when he was Mind Controlled by Onslaught and really the Hulk has jobbed to pretty much everybody from Apocalypse to Constrictor. Sam doesn't really react at high speeds, he simply used his powers to render Gladiator's attack useless. Black Bolt for instance has nowhere near the reaction time to fight Gladiator but he does have the durability. Mongul is not as fast as Superman either and yet he commonly fights him using his durability rather than speed. Criti should be able to knock him out before he can get his blasting field up.

When Creel is expecting to just flow by, it will be terribly surprising when the giant dinosaur evaporates him especially since Creel isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. Turning into Plasmic Fire is exactly what I want. Grimlock will pour it on making Creel bigger and bigger and more powerful. Then Amanda teleports your entire team into Absorbing Man where his new plasmic form vaporizes them. I was waiting for you to turn Absorbing Man in to Plasmic Fire so that Amanda could dispose of your team.

Who says that Moondragon can't detect your team? She is far more powerful than Cable has ever been. Her biggest feats dwarf everything that Cable has ever pulled. Given that most Telepaths can use the negative space created by TP shielding to determine where things are, I see no reason why someone who was trained to use these abilities by Titanian Monks would be unable to do so. Show me Cable mind controlling a planet or TPing Galactus or something on that level and maybe I'll believe that Cable is up to the task of keeping Moondragon out. If you look at the next panel, Thanos is worried that Galactus will backtrace the telepathic intrusion to Moondragon so Thanos teleports her away. Why do you think Thanos used Moondragon? He needed someone powerful enough to get in but someone that was not him so that they could be disposed of when the job was done. Moondragon did that whole thing on her own and acted like Hugh Jackman in Swordfish or Justin Long in Die Hard. Good at what they do but also completely disposable. Moondragon is easily more powerful than Cable and since he won't get through her TP Shields, he can't touch Amanda's mind. Amanda can then hit him with as many magical illusions as she wants because Cable will be unable to counter them. Cable goes down hard if Amanda gets involved.

Again, no one will even take notice of Leech and Joshua as they are simply too small to notice. One of the awesome parts about Pym Particles is that when you shrink, you maintain your current level of strength so debris won't be an issue. Anyone that gets near them loses their superhuman abilities so they will be unable to use them to detect Leech and Josh. Hank, Reed, and Tony managed to build the gigantic prison 42 in the Negative Zone without being detected for quite some time. If an entire prison can go unnoticed for months then how do you think two 3 inch guys can't go unnoticed for an hour? They are far safer in the Negative Zone than in the Triskelion.

Your team wholly relies on Cable's telepathy to keep your team from just getting outright destroyed. My team's superior power levels, versatility, and overall superior skill should easily grant them a victory over such a weak and limited team.

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#15 Edited by Juiceboks (18262 posts) - - Show Bio

Cable's teleportation is certainly not clumsy. Body Slide is pretty reliable as a means to travel miles at a time. But even so he has done well without it. I dont think you read carefully into my post so I'll say it again. Pre mindrape is prohibited. Moondragon can not destroy my team before the battle starts as that is against the rules. So I still can use Cerebra to locate your team with my prep time. To figure out how to get into the Negative Zone, Cable can use the Dominus Objective to search for the information which shouldnt take but moments.

The whole point of me bringing up TP illusions is to say that Cable isnt any stranger to them. If she tried to make him see things it probably wouldnt work. Emma tried too and he quickly broke out of it. And before you give the magic excuse, it doesnt matter in here. Sure it may a spell, but the effect is still messing with his mind. Has Amanda ever deceived someone as powerful a telepath as say..Professor X? Or Apocalypse? Rachael Grey? All of these people Cable has proven to be more powerful in the TP department by the way. Fact is, Cable has soooo many ways of instantly putting down Amanda if she would be foolish enough to try and take him head on its not even funny. Remember Sam? The guy that is in the air that can blitz her out of the sky as soon as she makes an appearance? Or how bout Gar? Ever see the Sharktopus? Imagine that but Godzilla sized and looking for some blonde jerky to munch on. And dont even get me started on Warlocks power.

In that instance, Thanos was using Heather to ASSIST him. Why else would he ask a telepath who is not as powerful as him to contact Galactus? It was a joint effort and like you said, he disposed of her just like Hugh Jackman in Swordfish or Dabura in DBZ. She was also in the possession of the Mind Gem at the time so her power was amped. Galactus wasnt trying to resist them either. If he wanted to he couldve expelled either one of them from his mind at that instant but choose not to as he was intrigued by Thanos' offer. While it was impressive that they both managed to break his natural mental defenses, I think youre reading too much into that feat. Moondragon however powerful she is, is often very cocky in her abilities. With the Mind Gem she was taken down by a certain high level telepath that you should know. She kinda reminds me of Rachael Summers when she was young, powerful but cocky and arrogant. This same cockiness earned her defeats at the hands of Xavier and Jean(which of course goes both ways but in case of Xavier she usually blindsides him). This will be her downfall. Also about her controlling a whole planet..yea she didnt do that. She manipulated the leaders not the whole planet. And even that proved taxing on her. Its right there in black and slightly tannish white.


You HIGHLY underestimate my team. Especially Cable. Criti cannot stop himself from getting instantly choked to death, or having his head implode. No manner of shapeshifting(not that he could do it in time to save himself) will help him here. Lets look at some of his feats. He beat Stryfe. Put down Psycho-Man rather easily. Pulled Jean Grey, Apocalypse and Cyclops into his mind when he was a child. Resisted T.O infection when he was 12 which Nova with the WORLD MIND and full Nova Force couldnt do. Fought Hulk and beat him TWICE(the other time was with a little help from Storm). By the way the fact that he can hit him out of green form regardless of whether he was jobbing or not speaks mounds for Cable. He mind blasts X-Man and defeats him in a fraction of a second when his TP and TK were at his weakest while X-Man was the most powerful he ever was. Defeats Apocalypse as a young Cable. Makes Cannonball put his shield down while speeding towards him so that he could punch him out(which is a pretty big reactionary feat considering how fast Cannonball can go). Actually what the Lightmaster fight proves is that he can react fast enough to a guy who can think at lightspeeds. If thats not enough well then take the SS. Dude can move in multitudes faster than light and Cable was still able to pick up his thoughts with his WORLD level telepathy and react accordingly. With his full potential unlocked he can take on Silver Surfer whilst his attention is elsewhere. He only lost because he states he ran out of time and doesnt even bother to protect himself from Radd's eye beams. Not to mention the fact that he was obviously tired from keeping Provenence in the air, solving problems around the world, and keeping telepathic tabs on SHIELD. That easily puts him at Omega level as multiple powerful telepaths even stated many times that when he unlocks his full potential he has no mental peer. On a side note, he can turn himself invisible thus one way to eliminate the potential of being teleported. At his low power state he's Alpha. This isnt at his lowest power. He is more than capable of providing a TP defense against Moondragon. Thus rendering your strategy useless. But you dont have to believe that Cable is a more powerful telepath than Moondragon or at the very least at her level even when hampered by the T.O virus. If it's all the same I would like to call for voting at this time. It doesnt seem like I can convince you to realize that your team isnt perfect and my team is far from weak and incapable.

Just in case you dont believe what I say is true.



Like I said, I move that we open this up for voting. What say you?

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#16 Posted by DireDrill (2483 posts) - - Show Bio

No, Pre-hacking is prohibited. You can't use Cerebra to gain any information on my team's location or plan. You have to wait until the battle starts to teleport to upstate New York and then use Cerebra. In the time it takes to get that helmet on, your entire team is taken. You can't use the Dominus Objective because the Skrull Infiltration Tech makes him immune to any form of probing. You also won't find enough information in any database on Earth to be able to make use of the Negative Zone. Also, at no point has Cable used both the Dominus Objective and his Telepathy, so there is no reason to expect he'll do so here. Even if you get through the Portal, Leech will depower anyone and everyone who comes through and Joshua will just shoot them in the head.

Magic Illusions are made of magic, not created in the mind. Everyone can see them not just Cable. Amanda can cast a spell protecting my team from the effects. There will be multiple duplicates of the Triskelion, Amandas, Critis, and Grimlocks and they will all be hitting you. TP Illusions =/= Magic Illusions =/= Tech Illusions =/= Skill Illusions, just because you have experience with one does not mean that you have any helpful experience dealing with the other. Not only will Cable be unable to tell what is what, Cannonball and Beast Boy will likewise be under the spell and they will in fact be fighting each other. I'll be using Gar against Warlock. One of the reasons why I wanted the Amanda who wields the Soulsword is that it gives me control over Limbo and massive magic amplification. I can send your whole team into Limbo if I need to do so.

You maybe need to go reread the rules. Regardless of how strong our psionics are, it is limited to Rachel/Emma levels. Moondragon has demonstrated that she is at least at that level which means that they counter each other. He could be the god of Psionics but he is limited to Emma Frost level telepathy and Rachel Grey (Sans Phoenix) Telekinesis. Without Cerebra Amping him, he will have no means of piercing the defense. As we have already gone over, using Cerebra costs you your team. The battle with Lightmaster is pointless to bring up as he simply caught him monologuing and then did some math, nothing too terribly impressive especially since he knew that Lightmaster was coming and had prepared for it.

If you are ready for voting I'll go ahead and post my conclusion.

Primary Points

  • Juiceboks' team has no counter for magic at all. His entire team is vulnerable to its effects.
  • I have moved Wanda into a place that he can't get to so he will never be able to complete his primary objective much less in the hour provided.
  • His entire team is based around one person that I can manipulate and BFR if need be.
  • My team's versatility, power, and skill are in excess of your team.

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#17 Posted by Juiceboks (18262 posts) - - Show Bio

I read the rules thats why I stated in my lengthy post that T.O virus Cable is at least at Moondragons TP level and is considerably more capable than you make him seem. Also, Moondragon is limited to Emma Frosts level as well(though its arguable if she's even at her level of control). Again, using Cerebra is not mind hacking. I'm simply locating your team not reading their minds. Cerebra can be used to detect muties and thats what I will be doing. With Cable's infared eye and BB's eagle vision they can see a giant Grimlock and a giant Skrull. I know who is there on the island. Your team knows nothing of who is attacking on my team. I have the element of surprise with a TP shield to protect me from Heather. I made my case as to how powerful Cable is with and without the T.O virus. If you wanna discredit the Lightmaster fight then thats your perogative. I see it as a means to say Cable can think fast enough to deceive a light speed moving enemy while keeping part of his attention around the surrounding building with TK.

You see Amanda deceiving my whole team upon porting to the air. I see her instantly getting ripped apart telekinetically and/or speedblitzed by someone moving at supersonic speeds. Or eaten. Like many things in our debate, we have reached an impasse here.

I'm pretty sure Reed isnt the only known soul on earth that has the means to go into the Negative Zone. Even if he was, he had to record that data somewhere, most likely in a computer. The time Cable used the DO was also the time when he had lost his TP powers. Theres nothing suggesting he cant do both at the same time seeing how easily he seemed to access information with it. Plus considering his track record with multitasking, I wouldnt put it past him.

All in all the way I see it. I have the element of surprise, knowledge of your team which you dont share, means to insta kill almost every member on your team should they give me the oppurtunity. Durability. Versatality courtesy of Warlock, BB, and Absorbing Man. Strategic planning and tactical leadership that a genius level Cable offers.

We both have good teams with strong members. Despite what you think, neither of our teams are ineffective or counter productive. They were picked with great attention to detail and it shows. However I truly believe that due to the aforementioned advantages, I can complete my objective within the alotted time.

I'm open to opening this up to votes.

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#18 Posted by Backflip (2287 posts) - - Show Bio

So you guys ready for voting?

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#19 Edited by DireDrill (2483 posts) - - Show Bio

Cerebra detects mutants by entering their minds. If you want to use Cerebra, you sacrifice your team simply put. Let's say you do get it, what does it get you? I have only 2 mutants, and they will be gone in the first couple seconds. Also, I would like evidence that it can detect people who have been reduced in size like they have.

Cable won't know which Amanda is which and he won't go for the kill initially because she'll look like one of your team members. You have no counter to magic on your team so you have no means of defeating someone who can act with impunity. You won't see her coming because she can teleport and will be shielded telepathically.

Reed is pretty much the only person with the expertise to go into the Negative Zone. The Skrulls pretty much state that the tech he uses to do it exists nowhere else in the universe. Reed has an eidetic memory, he doesn't need to put any data anywhere. Either way, this battle is in character and in character, Cable stopped using the Dominus Objective the second his TP came back. He won't use it here. Like I said, you won't be getting through that portal in under an hour much less surviving once you do.

You seem to think that Grimlock and Criti are easy pickings because they are easily detected. They are bait and you fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

But yeah, let's go to voting.

@backflip I am ready for voting.

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#20 Posted by Backflip (2287 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill@juiceboks Fantastic battle guys, and both of you should be proud. But ultimately, I'm going to have to back DireDrill in this fight.

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#21 Edited by Juiceboks (18262 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont sacrifice my team using Cerebra. I see what youre saying but I have to disagree for reasons aforementioned. With it I can still detect that your two mutants are getting transported to the Negative Zone. It recognizes the X-Gene in their bodies not necessarily probing their minds.

If Cable cant kill her for whatever reason, Cannonball moving at full throttle will. I doubt they wouldnt notice someone teleport in their line of sight as battle ready and experienced with teleporters as they are. My team may have no defense against magic, but your team has no defense against speedblitz or TK assault. Thats how I see it.

Reed had blueprints making the portal to the Negative Zone along with vehicles to venture through it. I dont think its safe to assume he never wrote anything down. Cable stopped using the DO when he got his TP back because he simply didnt need it. Nate has a track record of multitasking utilizing his TK and TP. I dont see why he cant do both here.

Criti and Grimlock are easy pickings because I have the means to easily dispatch of them. Warlock's shapeshifting and the fact that he's essentially a walking techno organic virus capable of infecting all of your teammates that try and go against him adds to this.

At the end of the day, Amanda whom you are relying on BFRing my whole team is still just a human with magical powers. She has limits. She doesnt have superhuman reaction time or durabilty so given someone who can move and react faster than her, and can insta kill her in several ways , she would go down.

But yea I am done.

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#22 Edited by Esquire (3962 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to have to vote for DireDrill, as well.

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#23 Edited by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

Very good battle again. Leaning to Juiceboks thanks to the Scans with Context Clarification as far as debating.

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#24 Posted by Veitha (4154 posts) - - Show Bio

this is a very hard choice, since both of you have got good teams and did a very good debate... but I'm going with Juiceboks because he uploaded more scans to clarify what he was saying, but DireDrill did also very well!

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#25 Posted by Backflip (2287 posts) - - Show Bio

Juiceboks : 2

Diredrill : 2

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#26 Posted by DireDrill (2483 posts) - - Show Bio

Where are people getting the idea that More Scans = Better? That is like voting for the president who gives more quotable sound bites rather than who wins the debate. Scans mean nothing regardless of the number if the points don't stand.

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#27 Edited by Backflip (2287 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill: Because scans prove points. Scans aren't like quotes, they're like.. statistics. They back up what your saying to prove that it isn't balderdash :P

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#28 Edited by DireDrill (2483 posts) - - Show Bio

Statistics are just as crap as quotes. Politicians often use a tactic where they quote a bunch of statistics to distract people from their weak point. If you make the point that Batman is awesome and provide multiple scans of Batman being awesome and I post that the Flash can speed blitz then does your Batman is awesome point really matter? Points come first, support for them should only be considered in situations where either the battle is too close to call or the point itself seems dubious. Points are more important in a debate than scans will ever be.

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#29 Edited by Backflip (2287 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill: Relax buddy, everyone is reading the arguments, and noting the points. As both Veitha and Cadence pointed out, the Scans only assisted them from a 'clarity' sense. It's not like they're disregarding you on the simple basis that you didn't provide scans. As I said earlier, Scans are Proof. In as much as, if I say Rachel Grey can create a black hole with her telekinesis. That's a pretty broad claim, now the instant dismissals are going to point out stuff like 'She probably had the Phoenix at the time' etc. I can use scans to affirm my claim so that they're non-debatable.

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#30 Edited by Backflip (2287 posts) - - Show Bio


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#31 Posted by Sovereign91001 (6771 posts) - - Show Bio

@backflip: Got your post and am casting my vote.

@diredrill: You get my vote. Very close contest it coulda gone either way I think you supported your position a tad better though and that's what gave you the nod for me.

@juiceboks: You did a very solid job, I've seen several of your debates and this is one of the best ones I've seen out of you, excellent job.

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#32 Posted by Saren (27534 posts) - - Show Bio


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#33 Edited by dondave (41308 posts) - - Show Bio


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#34 Posted by Backflip (2287 posts) - - Show Bio