Guess I'll just drop an extremely small opener to get the ball rolling.
"Wielding one's blade out of duty alone is what it means to be a captain. Wielding one's blade out of hatred is nothing more than petty violence. That is not what we would consider battle."
Toshiro Hitsugaya:
Toshiro is the captain of the Gotei 13's 10th division. He used to be a kid (well, a kid by shinigami standards), but now he's had a sudden growth spurt and is an adult, at least for the time being. His zanpakuto, Hyorinmaru, allows him control over ice and water, and boy does he have good control over them. He's hailed as one of the most gifted shinigami ever and has been known as "the heavenly angel that blesses soul society once a century" by his peers.
Powers and Abilities:
Toshiro is, obviously, my heavy hitter on this team. I could have picked better, and there are straight up hard counters to Toshiro in this comp (I'm looking at you, Escanor), but he's rarely debated with, so I thought I'd give him some love.
His most common form of attack is with ice, which can be extremely deadly and can be used on a whim. Here he also has all feats (minus his game appearances) so forms are of no consequence.
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This was a casual ice attack performed when Toshiro was exhausted. It doesn't look that impressive on the surface, just holding up about a city block or 2 worth of structure solely with ice. Truth is, he held up a lot more than you might expect. He held up an entire arm of the Wahrwelt, the new base of the quincy. If you want to know what this looks like
The part where his ice is located is circled btw. As you can see, he held up a heck of a lot more mass then you might expect. And remember, this was in a weaker form, when he was tired, and using an unnamed, casual attack.
When we get to adult Toshiro things get a little ridiculous, but I don't have time at the moment to go through that here, so I'll leave it. It is only an opener after all.
"I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant; it is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."
Mewtwo:
To keep this one short and sweet; he's a genetically augmented scientific abomination. Once it realised this, it went a little murdery, before eventually calming down a bit, and here we are.
Honestly, Mewtwo is here to stop my team dropping to hax and bollocks attacks, a buffer if you will. Though even though that's why I bought him, Mewtwo is still incredibly deadly in combat.
Powers and Abilities:
Mewtwo is largely telekinetic/telepathic in nature, but he does have a wide variety of other abilities.
On top of being a powerful telepath, he also has a variety of powerful telekinetic moves.
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1-2 - Completely destroys a forest
3-4 - Summons his spoon inside another Pokemon.
Of course there's much, much more to Mewtwo, but I'll save the good stuff for later.
"Whether you live or die... is like a grain of sand in the path to the Holy Knights' rule."
Gilthunder:
Gilthunder is a diamond ranked holy knight from the kingdom of Liones. The magic that he uses is called Thunderbolt and it is, as the name would suggest, lightning based. Unlike a lot of lightning based attacks in fiction however, Gil uses actual lightning in battle, making it incredibly difficult to dodge.
Powers and Abilities:
Besides all the lightning attacks, Gil has the usual repertoire of super everything, speed, strength etc etc. The speed that he can summon lightning is incredibly quick as well
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Basically there is no cast time, and lightning can be summoned down whenever and wherever, being a constant, continuous threat throughout this match, and adding onto everything else your two would be having to deal with come the time of the battle.
"We don't die for our friends, we live for our friends."
Erza Scarlet:
Erza is an S-Class mage from Fairy Tail, and a character that probably shouldn't be worth 1 point. Her magic is called The Knight and allows her to equip all manner of different weapons and armour at will.
Powers and Abilities:
Erza doesn't really have distance spells or anything, and is largely reliant on her weapons and physicals in battle, unlike the other members of my team. Even so, she is extremely strong, able to do things such as casually cut steel with air pressure.
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She's also powerful enough to destroy a small island in a single exchange (first is the exchange, second is the island for scale). This isn't island level, but it is easily multi city block, and that's decent for a 1 pointer.
Again, there's more to her, but I don't have time at the moment to go through everything, and this is only an opener, so I'll delve deeper into her, and everyone else, in my next post. I apologise for the short post, but I'm looking forward to this, and I'll delve into what each of my characters can do and what their roles are in this battle in my next post.
Nagato (長門, Nagato) was a shinobi of Amegakure and descendant of theUzumaki clan. Forming Akatsuki alongside his friends (and fellow war orphans) Yahiko and Konan, Nagato dreamed of bringing peace to the violent shinobi world. However, following Yahiko's death, Nagato adopted the alias ofPain (ペイン, Pein) and, along with Konan, began leading a new Akatsuki; one that would force the world into peace using any means necessary.
Can outspeed Kakashi who has cut a lightning bolt in half. Link Also dodged a rasenshuriken which Kakashi stated he couldn't follow Link. So should reach the speed cap here.
Killer B (キラービー, Kirābī, Viz: Killer Bee) is a shinobi from Kumogakure. He is the most recent jinchūriki of the Eight-Tails, though, unlike his predecessors, he is able to befriend it and hone its power for Kumo's benefit. Despite being responsible for the village's protection, B aspires to be the world's greatest rapper.
Mewtwo seems pretty tough, good thing both of my guys have TP resistance feats. But more importantly, Nagato is known to have Genjutsu traps inside his own mind that can ensnare invading telepaths. I can see Mewtwo falling into one of these traps as he's unsuspecting.
Toshiro is the heavy hitter, but I believe both my Chars have apt durability feats for his attacks especially with Nagato's TK that can deflect his attacks.He's going to need durability feats to show he can tank my teams attacks like B's Bijuu bomb.
Gilthunder's lightning can be absorbed by Nagato and tanked by B.
Erza is outclassed by B close quarters especially considering speed.
Your entire team runs at risk from B's ink sealing which will completely freeze them within 3 seconds of contact.
Mewtwo is especially in danger of defeating himself by trying to invade Nagato's mind.
Need durability for your entire team that shows they can tank my teams DC and speed feats that can keep up (From the feats I've shown both should meet the speedcap in combat and reactions).
TK powerful enough to reflect about any attack and level the Hidden Leaf Village, can also pull targets
Shinra tensei isn't so much TK as it is manipulating the forces of repulsion and attraction. That's all he can do with it, pulling and pushing. Not saying that in and of itself isn't powerful, but using TK to describe it is extremely misleading.
TP resistance, can TP you when you try to TP him via mind traps.
This is one of the ones I really wanted to touch on. Nagato doesn't have inherent TP resistance. I'll address this scan first before going deeper though. Now, just because he can set traps in other peoples brains, that doesn't automatically mean he has them in his own. There's nothing suggesting that the traps wouldn't be damaging to the individual they're placed in, or that Nagato has ever placed them on himself at all. Saying that because he can do things to others he already has them in place on himself is a bit of a leap to make imo. This is especially so because people in the Naruto-verse don't mind probe typically, and Nagato knew that Ino's dad would be coming, who's one of the few who can. The point I'm making is that pure telepathy in Naruto is so rare that I doubt Nagato would bother to trap his own mind on a regular basis.
Anyway, on to the rest of TP. The only mention of Nagato ever having TP resistance is from a databook that states the rinnegan counters ocular genjutsu only (to my knowledge this is the only mention, if there's another let me know), and not all genjutsu. This is further backed up by Jiraiya trapping members of the 6th paths of Pain in the frog song, which is the only instance they faced non ocular genjutsu in canon, IIRC. And do you know what happened?
He got one shotted by it, and needed other people to allow him to escape. Afterwards, the paths even say that had Jiraiya had knowledge on them, he would have won, and the genjutsu he used was a huge part of that.
Basically, Nagato has been caught by genjutsu in the past, so there's nothing really stopping him from getting TP'd by Mewtwo. The question then is what will Mewtwo do to Nagato? Well, he has made people lose the ability to use attacks, which forced a bunch of Pokemon to fight physically instead. He could pull this, and wipe Nagato's ability to use pretty much anything, or he could just shut him down. Doesn't really matter. Oh, he could mind wipe him as well, making him forget what he's doing and stop fighting, leaving him completely open to all manner of attacks. Or why not turn him on his team mates, and have him attack B?
Can outspeed Kakashi who has cut a lightning bolt in half.
Fact is, we have no idea how he cut the lightning bolt in half with the Chidori, as it was never shown. As far as we know, he just waited with his arm in the air and let the bolt do the work. It was shown in a filler episode, but that's it. And really, ANBU Kakashi is nowhere near lightning timing if far faster characters in the series aren't.
That's what I wanted to touch on for Nagato. For B, I only wanna talk about one thing you showed, because I'm fine with the rest.
8 Tais also gives him TP resistance.
This isn't necessarily true. Hachibi lets him break out of TP after he's been hit by it, it doesn't give him inherent resistance to it. B's been caught in genjutsu several times throughout the series.
A notable example being Itachi, who genjutsu'd him pretty casually, and even had to warn him about it. Again, Hachibi can break him out after he gets Genjutsu'd, but he can't stop him from getting genjutsu'd originally. Basically, there's nothing stopping a mind wipe, an ability negation, or all manner of other things from happening before Hachibi breaks him out. After that happens, Hachibi's gonna need to take time to explain why B's fighting to begin with, which is, once again, leaving him wide open to attacks. This is assuming Hachibi can even get B back in the fight, as a straight mind wipe is way worse than a simple genjutsu.
Mewtwo seems pretty tough, good thing both of my guys have TP resistance feats.
Not good enough ones.
But more importantly, Nagato is known to have Genjutsu traps inside his own mind that can ensnare invading telepaths.
No he hasn't. He's never shown to have them in his own mind. Ever.
I can see Mewtwo falling into one of these traps as he's unsuspecting.
Even so, I'd consider Mewtwo's telepathy well above what Nagato can defend against, even if we do consider that he has traps there. Mind telling me what those traps would do btw, or are you just assuming they'd one shot Mewtwo?
Toshiro is the heavy hitter, but I believe both my Chars have apt durability feats for his attacks especially with Nagato's TK that can deflect his attacks.He's going to need durability feats to show he can tank my teams attacks like B's Bijuu bomb.
You haven't even seen his attacks yet lol. What you saw was a casual swipe. And durability doesn't help too much against him to be honest, but you'll see what I mean later.
Gilthunder's lightning can be absorbed by Nagato and tanked by B.
Maybe, but they still need to look out for it. Since when could B tank lightning, btw? Blunt force durability =/= lightning immunity.
Erza is outclassed by B close quarters especially considering speed.
We'll see. That also implies that B would be duelling Erza in close quarters. Interesting. Considering the point difference, I'm fine with you taking that approach.
Your entire team runs at risk from B's ink sealing which will completely freeze them within 3 seconds of contact.
That attacks pretty easy to dodge, or just TK blast away. Plus, I'm pretty sure B's used that attack as many all of 1 time in the series, right? Who's to say he'd start with, or even use that attack in this fight?
Mewtwo is especially in danger of defeating himself by trying to invade Nagato's mind.
You really haven't proven this.
Need durability for your entire team that shows they can tank my teams DC and speed feats that can keep up (From the feats I've shown both should meet the speedcap in combat and reactions).
Alright. Likewise for you with instant TP dropping (and good luck with that, btw).
With that out of the way, onto furthering my characters abilities:
Hitsugaya:
To begin with, my little ice man is certainly going to be able to react to and fight your characters pretty easily.
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Toshiro is fast enough to dodge Gin's Shinso when it was literally millimetres away from stabbing him. This same Shinso is something Ichigo could barely react too at a time when he was above mach 40 (as in, it elongated and contracted before Ichigo knew what happened), and can cover 13km near instantly in distance. And remember, this is Toshiro at probably his weakest in the series, during pretty much his first combat appearance. Since then, he's gotten massively, massively faster. Heck, at this stage of the series, even the fodder characters are capable of outpacing lightning from close range.
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If you need to know what happened, the first person who got hit back has lightning powers (and it is real lightning, I can go into detail if need be), and the three other girls landed on top of her. The first person then released lightning, and the girls outran it. These girls are literally fodder, demonstrated by Ichigo completely blitzing the crap out of them and no selling everything they tried to do. Toshiro should be more than capable of keeping up with and dodging anything here that's thrown from a distance.
Alright, so he's fast, and he has some large scale ice attacks. Cool. So, what can his adult form do? Well, the answer is; flash freezing. It's what his adult form specialises in.
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First and foremost, to answer the question of is flash freezing the only thing Toshiro gained, no, all his stats increased. Gerard can sense spiritual pressure, which pretty much translates to how strong someone is, more pressure = more powerful. There's clearly a marked difference between kid Toshiro and adult Toshiro in terms of spiritual pressure. Anyway, moving on to the freezing.
To begin with, Toshiro can flash freeze anything that comes close to him. The shield thrown is absolutely giant, btw, easily building level in size. Notice how he also stops the shield in its tracks? This speaks volumes, as the guy who threw it was capable of going toe to toe with, and even overpowering shikai Kenpachi. You'll find out more about Kenny later though.
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Speaking about flash freezing though, how about the ability to flash freeze entire city blocks before MH+ characters know what happened? I was going to show the full context in a single scan bomb, but it doesn't want to load 6 or 7 scans at once, so the context and aftermath is below
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So, afterwards, Gerard admittedly breaks out (albeit in a terrible condition), grabs Toshiro, and starts crushing him (which is an impressive durability feat, as he went toe to toe with Kenny in a form weaker than this one). Kenny then grabs his leg, and Toshiro flash freezes him, literally to the bone. We know this due to what happened after Gerard got destroyed.
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Once destroyed, he breaks apart into huge completely frozen chunks. So yeah, some deep freezing will happen should you get hit by Toshiro's ice.
Also, in the first set of scans where Gerard gets frozen, notice how his bow got frozen as well? That bow was made of raw spirit energy, or since energy is equalised, raw chakra. Basically, anything you have can be flash frozen. Anything you launch is pretty much gonna get frozen all the way through. So, what about a bijuu bombs DC? Surely this isn't a NLF? Nah, it's not, because Toshiro's freezing gets even better.
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He can amp his cutting power by flash freezing literally anything it touches. And did you catch what Toshiro says? Anything that gets frozen has all of its functions cease. This means any power related to something that's frozen, is no longer a power. How is this backed up? Well, the sword that Toshiro cut has the power to wound anyone who damages it. Kenny found out about this the hard way.
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So yeah, Toshiro's statement is not without backing. Also, did you see how small of a knick Kenny put on it? This is what makes Toshiro's cutting power absolutely insane, as the same Kenny with the same shikai was able to do this.
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Kenpachi's shikai is potent enough to one shot a giant meteor that would have wiped soul society of the map. I'm sure that we all know this feat, and know all the calcs that stem from it. I'm not getting into calcs if you're not, but at minimum I'm sure everyone can agree that it's at least a city level feat. Even though Kenny's shikai is that powerful, it can still only make a tiny knick in Gerard's blade. Meanwhile, Toshiro is powerful enough to ever so casually cut it in half with one hand. What I'm trying to say is that if you get near Toshiro, you're dead. there's no way you have the durability to take any cuts Toshiro can put out. Unfortunately, Toshiro's gonna be up in your face an awful lot and you're gonna be struggling with TP, lightning, Erza, and Gil attacking you at the same time. On top of this, your characters have no idea that Toshiro is this powerful, so likely won't be making a point to keep distance throughout the fight. Against Naruto and B, Nagato went in CQC pretty often, as did B. Even EMS Sasuke can get close to B in 8 tails form, so that won't be a problem for Toshiro to do either.
Basically, the point is that Toshiro can freeze any attack that's raw chakra or large scale (so summons, chibaku tensei, bijuu bombs etc), and can one shot you up close. Pretty much, your distance doesn't work too well here, and you need to beat him from distance within 4 seconds, because after that it's a flash freeze, which lets everyone jump right on you for an easy finish. Hax, it's what Bleach characters specialise in.
Mewtwo:
Mewtwo only costs 3 points here, but I'd argue that he can easily match either of your characters, and as I've already shown, could wipe both of them with telepathy right off the bat regardless.
In terms of overall combat power, Mewtwo has it in spades
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Mewtwo can catch a hyperbeam from one of Lance's Pokemon with one hand. For reference, here is what Lance's Pokemon can do with a hyperbeam
They're powerful enough to nuke cities with it, and Mewtwo can casually catch it with one hand. Not bad.
He can also turn himself invisible, because reasons. Seriously though, this is gonna make it incredibly difficult for your team to target him correctly. I don't remember if either of them are sensors, but even if they are, they're gonna have their work cut out effectively targeting Mewtwo when everyone else is already all over your two.
Since Mewtwo has the potential to one shot both of your characters with telepathy and can potentially nullify anything but the strongest shinra tensei with his own city level telekinesis, I'll show off his recover.
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Recover allows Mewtwo to shake off an awful lot of punishment. In that particular instance, he healed from multiple stabbings, a huge amount of blunt force trauma and multiple large scale energy blasts. Pretty much, Mewtwo can heavily distract your team, mitigate shinra tensei, potentially insta-win with telepathy, and is incredibly difficult to put down. Chrome crashed when I was writing out Mewtwo's bit and I can't be bothered putting everything back in, so this should suffice. He's not supposed to win with telekinesis anyway ;)
Gilthunder:
Gil is pretty decent for a 2 pointer as well. In terms of speed, I'l ditto your post, as Gil is more than capable of going toe to toe with Mel (back before he was island level), who can react to his lightning. So if that's all you're pulling out Gil's pretty even with your characters speed wise.
In terms of strength, Gil isn't lacking either
For some reason I can't put these scans in, so I'll explain it like this. Gil was strong enough to throw a town busting spear from over 7.3 miles away (1, 2, 3, 4, 5). If you can't view these because AnimeVice is a terrible website let me know and I'll go through and get them myself. The feat is as cut and dry as I've described though, Gil is casually able to throw a single spear several miles with it still having town busting potential on impact. I know things like bijuu bombs are well above town busting, but in terms of straight up physicals, as far as I'm aware Gil has anything short of bijuu mode beat, and even then Gil might still be able to overpower that given the chance.
Apart from those physicals, Gil largely uses lightning in attacking, which he can summon from the sky or use as armour, which greatly amps his stats. Gil at this point is also much faster than what he was when he went up against Mel the first time.
That's it for Mel really. We can argue skill all day, but that won't get us anywhere. Gil's job is to launch down barrage after barrage of lightning whilst pressing your team up close, not giving you any breathing room. With his physicals as well, he should be able to do it.
Erza:
I'm going to straight up say it, Erza's not the fastest person here. That said however, she's by no means slow.
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Erza's fast enough to time explosions casually and has shown to be able to blitz explosion timers and move massively FTE before. Although she may be getting outpaced here, she's by no means going to get blitzed.
In terms of durability, I've already shown her being at least multi city block level, which is about as good as it gets without calcs. That said, multi city block physicals are still likely above what your characters can put out in terms of physical stats, and when a lot of your range is either getting frozen, negated, or your characters will just straight up forget how to use it, that counts for quite a bit.
Closing statements:
I don't really like using strategy posts in debates, as it largely locks you in and makes it less flexible in terms of options and variety. I also don't really like writing them out, because I'm really not creative. So umm, yeah. If you put up a strategy, I'll put one up too, but I'm certainly not starting. Anyway, onto the tl;dr part.
Summary:
Toshiro has the potential to one shot either of your characters should he close the distance
Toshiro is fast enough to close the distance with either of your characters
Mewtwo can insta-drop your team with TP, due to the lack of resistance they have
Toshiro can freeze your teams raw chakra attacks such as chibaku tensei and bijuu bombs, and should he freeze them their abilities cease to function
Mewtwo can largely nullify shinra tensei
Both Gil and Erza are likely superior to your characters in terms of raw physical strength (minus Hachibi mode), which is bad for you as they're gonna be on your asses the entire fight
After 4 seconds the fight is practically over due to flash freeze
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