Mace Windu vs Satele Shan

I hope this is a good match up.. I think it is anyway.

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In character. No prior knowledge. Both in their prime. Fight to the death.

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Start at opposite sides. Who takes it and why?

@shootingnova@dccomicsrule2011@jedixman@beezlebub@penderor@wolfrazer Get in here dudes (sorry if I missed anyone out). Hopefully this is a more refreshing Star Wars battle than some of the more recent ones.

She is better force user and he is probably better duelist. That could go either way.

@i_like_swords: I'm a little disappointed you didn't call me out too, but nevertheless here I am.

This is a good fight from where I'm standing. Satele is better with the Force but Mace is better as a duelist. From where I'm standing it could go either way.

@penderor: No, Mace remains the better duelist in my book. You are correct though to say she is a superior force user.

@shroudofsorrow: I knew I forgot someone!!! Sorry man I definitely would have tagged you, don't worry.

Eh not entirely knowledgable on either, well some on Mace but not anything on Satele.

Satele is the superior Force user but she is kinda lacking in the dueling department - while Mace Windu is one of the best duelist the Jedi Order has ever seen. They are pretty much equal as far speed goes- while Mace is most likely has the strength advantage.

All and all, Mace should win the majority simply by being the superior duelist -which, is what wins duels in the Star Wars universe most of the time unless the Force gap between the two combatant is big - which, isn't the case here.

Mace Windu 7-8/10.

@i_like_swords: No worries.

@dccomicsrule2011: If Satele could keep at bay she might have a chance. Otherwise I agree with your assessment. Out of curiosity, what are Satele's dueling feats as of being Grandmaster? I know of her losses to Malgus, but that was her before becoming Grandmaster. Does she have any other noteworthy dueling feats?

Master of the Order ; Windu wins.

@shroudofsorrow:

I agree, Satele can take a couple of wins if she can create space and use her superior Force power to tip the scale her way.

Satele best dueling feat IIRC is stalemating Baras, who does not really have many feats himself - hence the reason Satele is really lacking in the dueling feat department.

@dccomicsrule2011: Baras actually has some dueling ability. I'd say that's a decent feat, but yeah not enough to make her a good match for Windu.

@dccomicsrule2011: @shroudofsorrow: What about her fights with Malgus? I know hes no Windu but he is strong and aggressive like Windu and Satele did very well against him all things considered. Id say Windu is definitely the better duelist but Satele has shown her capabilities well.

@i_like_swords: Actually, her showings with Malgus are LOW showings, not high ones. She lost to him on Korriban, and she lost to him on Alderaan. Now granted, neither version of Satele was her at her peak, but she has no fights with Malgus after becoming Grandmaster, at least not to my memory. Honestly stalemating Baras is a much better feat, and that by itself does not make her a good enough contender to Mace in a duel. In a duel Mace wins every time. He doesn't outright stomp, but he does win handily.

this

@i_like_swords: I don't think losing to Malgus is that good of a dueling feat to be honest. Did she fair good against Malgus? Sure, but I think he showing against Baras is better.

It's not that Satele is a bad duelist, in fact she's pretty good. It's just Mace Windu's feats and accolades are just better

@shroudofsorrow: @dccomicsrule2011: She was nowhere near her peak on Korriban, and I was referencing Alderaan purely because of the skill she showed in that fight. Aside from doing well against Malgus she was trouncing numerous other sith inbetween with relative ease. But yeah I do agree with your assessments.

Well the Sith in the Hope trailer weren't exactly good. I mean they just ran headlong into blaster rifle, one of em got a rifle stock TO THE FACE! BAM! And 2 others got shoved aside by Jace as he ran towards Malgus. :P

@wolfrazer: Suppose, but we must remember that for someone to become a reputable duelist they are required to pull off feats like that where they embarrass groups of fodder. Thats sort of how the good stand out from the bad - by not being fodder.

@i_like_swords: @whirlwind_33: Hooray! People agree with me! This is a happy day!

No I'm late! ;c

The verdict has been given but regardless I still go with Mace due to better dueling feats and comparable force abilities.

I'm still sad I missed this. :(

@beezlebub: You ain't really missed it. You could still give a full breakdown of how the fight would go, their forms and how they would act in character.

Alright then.

Satele Shan's main defenses lie in her ability to use the force in which she has a broad range of powers from which to choose from and all incredibly strong due to her latent force ability. She has proven her skill in Tutaminis by absorbing the energy of a Lightsaber blade which for all we know could have been on full power. This is arguably one of the most advanced examples of Tutaminis seen in Star Wars as we have no knowledge on the actual energy output of a Lightsaber other then that it can absorb other energy types and cut through steel. Along with this she has proven herself a master in TK as she was able to break through Malgus's force shields and slam him into the side of a mountain. Many force users such as Maul, Dooku and others have been seen to break through the shields of other force users but this is usually due to a major gap in latent force ability on an amp from force rage Satele Shan gave no indication of using force rage in her battle with Malgus which can only mean she purely overpowered him and even more impressive managed to hold him there with a prolonged force hold. Now overpowering Malgus is not an overwhelming feat but she managed to keep him down for a prolonged periods and Malgus is no slouch when it comes to the force. Finally what may be one of her most impressive telekinetic feats is when she sent a massive force wave that shattered both Malgus's jaw and the side of the mountain he was being held against. While not as impressive as some of the top telekinetic feats in Star Wars I believe it equals or surpasses Mace's own. Besides her advanced capabilities in both Tutaminis and telekinesis she was also a skilled telepath and was skilled at predicting the future. This allowed her to read the intentions of others and gave her what I believe is an advanced sensory system sort of like a spidey sense. There are also hints and indications that she is skilled or at least knowledgeable in the use of battle meditation among other force powers.

I believe these skills give Satele the edge over Mace in abilities in the force.

Now though I believe the general consensus is that Mace is the better duelist Satele is no slouch when it comes to Lightsaber dueling. Having had multiple battles with Malgus who is a blade master in his own right and surviving and even stalemating him along with beating Darth Baras shows that she herself is at least a competent duelist. From what I can gather from the videos and novels I believe Satele Shan is a Form IV user and practices Ataru as she is seen being aggressive and using both martial arts and acrobatic moves to catch her opponents off guard. I believe with the combination of her aggressive Lightsaber style and her power in she could keep Mace on the ropes for quite a while before having to succumb to Mace's superior Lightsaber skills.

Now don't get me wrong guys I still believe that Mace would win but not by as wide as a margin as everyone believes. Satele is a skilled duelist in her own right and even surpasses Mace's own abilities in the force. However Mace is a blade master and though I believe that Satele could hold him off for a while with a combination of her aggressive form and force powers his overwhelming skill and comparable force abilities would just be too much for her and she'd eventually have to succumb to his overwhelming force.

Final Verdict: Mace in a 6-7/10 Victory.

If you'd like I can do an analysis on Mace but I think we know how this battle would go.

@beezlebub: Very detailed breakdown, nice.

That? That was nothing compared to what people like you and dc do and Silver JediXMan and ShootingNova are on a whole other level. I'm probably the least knowledgeable person about Star Wars stuff other then Erkan. :3

So would you like me to do a Mace breakdown on why he wins?

@i_like_swords: I suppose so yeah.

But you are probably right about these Sith being a lot weaker as they were taken down by soldiers not even the equivalent of ARC's.

@beezlebub: LOLing at the last part about erkan xD wasnt expecting that haha.

Feel free to do a breakdown on Windu.

Started another thread since this one is solved.

*Sees that ILS actually wants me to spout another fountain of info*

Err...

MACE BEAT PALPATINE HE IS THE MOST SKILLZ IN SW UNIVERSE HE PWNED GALACTUS ERMGAERD!!! HE CRUSHED PUNY SHAN MACE STRONGEST THERE IS!!!

Is that an acceptable breakdown? I think it was even better then my first one.

Windu

@beezlebub: Expertly done xD

I thought so. :3

@dondave: You seem to be pretty into Star Wars, want me to tag you in future threads?

@i_like_swords: ILS you don't have to ask. Everybody wants to be tagged. It boosts our self esteem. Which is why I tagged you right now. :P

@i_like_swords Sure

@beezlebub: Who do you think you are, Silver2467? lol just kidding. Very good job with your analysis on the fight

Mace.

This Windu fan commando is creepy. I am going with Satele Shan.

Mace Windu.

Satele's showing are mostly out of her peak moments and her dueling capabilities havent been all that impressive. Lost to Malgus twice and would have died if she didnt get help. Im with the ones who say she has stronger force usage. But i still give this to Mace Windu. Better combat capabilities and enough force power to prevent being overwhelmed by Satele.

Would like to see Satele in his prime though. I mean, with that ascendancy line (Revan and Bastilla), im sure she can pack a punch.

@penderor said:

"Fan Commando"?

And no, Mace wins a majority. If you disagree prove it. Give evidence to support your stance. Please don't use the "fanboy" argument. It doesn't work.

@shroudofsorrow: Go for 0:36. Proof she is completely higher tier as force user. She is able to fight multiple lightsaber combatant at once.

When exactly Windu do that?

I am still saying it would be 5/10 for both.

I've asked you multiple times not to insult people. Please keep a grip on your emotions and refrain from doing so in the future. Who were you talking to?

@penderor: Those Sith were being taken down by troopers that aren't even equal to clone ARC's. On multiple occasions if you'd like me to list them. Mace would take this dude. Sorry.

@linark: Think you mean her. ;)

Also that's not really a super powerful line...

@whirlwind_33: I've evolved into Silver 2468! :3

@penderor: Curtiosy of ShootingNova

Some Force feats for Shan.

Satele Shan:

• Is capable of applying Shatterpoint
• Can release Force Blasts (or Force Waves or whatever you wish to call them) that can shatter blast doors and cliff faces
• Can stun Hex Droids with mere looks
• Destroys Hex Droids with mere gestures (for reference, Hex Droids have resisted an enraged Eldon Ax's Force Crush [which, granted, is relatively featless] and their shields can redirect lightsaber blades)
• Demonstrates Tutaminis to an extent sufficient enough to absorb Lightsaber blades with her bare hands
• Possesses extensive precognition
• Shattered a bacta tank
• Has hurled several Sith troopers with Force Push
• Can influence the biological components of over half a dozen Hex Droids to keep them at bay whilst maintaining a Force shield that seals air around her (although she couldn't do this for long)
• Appears to be skillful with Battle Meditation, although this isn't applicable in this fight
• Utilized Force Concealment

Beating fodder Sith troopers is not superior to Mace stalemating Dooku, or beating General Grievous.

We did see her in her prime. Read the novel Fatal Alliance.

I thought that it was a pretty well written novel.

Mace, because dueling skill takes priority over power.

Mace never won against Grievous in LoE by virtue of skill, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he couldn't, he was just disinterested in the fight as compared to saving the Chancellor.

I'm not sure I would mark that as her prime. Apparently, around the time of TOR (and I haven't read Annihilation because it's by Karpyshyn) she manipulated some Imperial Dreadnaughts. If so, she would be quite a bit more powerful than Mace, and retains her speed advantage. Mace is still noticeably more skilled, though.

Funnily enough, Satele Shan was the Grand Master of the Order, and the youngest to receive the title.

Windu wins because he has better feats, not because of his position.

@shootingnova: The lord and master ( After Jedi and Silver of course :P ) has spoken!

Windu

@shootingnova:

Mace never won against Grievous in LoE by virtue of skill, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he couldn't, he was just disinterested in the fight as compared to saving the Chancellor.

I never said he did. I simply stated he beat Grievous, which he did.

I'm not sure I would mark that as her prime. Apparently, around the time of TOR (and I haven't read Annihilation because it's by Karpyshyn) she manipulated some Imperial Dreadnaughts. If so, she would be quite a bit more powerful than Mace, and retains her speed advantage. Mace is still noticeably more skilled, though.

I flicked through Annihilation, and Satele doesn't seem to have a big part in the book to be honest. To be frank, that feat off manipulating Imperial Dreadnaughts could have been possible in Fatal Alliance considering how effortlessly she her impressive TK showings were in the book.