Luther Strode Vs Midnighter

Luther Strode Vs The Midnighter:

• Current Midnighter
• No prep or prior knowledge
• Luther is enraged, and Midnighter is in character
• Victory by death only
• Midnighter has a crowbar, an engine block, a fork, a knife, and his darts
• Fight takes place in a burning mansion, starting 25 meters apart

Callouts:

If current Midnighter is a shell of his Wildstorm self he should take this with ease.

@thenaughtytitan said:

He's not. He also really struggles with people with precognition, making this a pretty good match.

Bump.

@elijah_c_washington:

Midnighter.

I still see midnighter winning but not as easily as he would pre 52 wildstorm.

Feats for Luther Strode?

Midnighter.

Bump.

@neongamewave said:

http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=1067348

An anthology I made covering everything Luther Strode has done, and everything other practitioners of the sacrament have done.

Basically, Luther Strode is nearly immortal and can only be killed by destroying his head.

He can hit hard enough to smash through several meters of solid concrete, and is able to make large craters in the ground. He destroyed a warehouse in his fight with the Librarian, and that was a long time ago. He is able to destroy huge walls, and trucks.

He can handle hits from other users of the method, and weaker practitioners like the biblical Samson can butcher entire armies numbering in the thousands.

He is a really, really crazy bullet-timer. He can change the trajectory of five different bullets fired by the Shooter at once. Note the Shooter is basically Vash the Stampede when it comes to gun-slinging.

He moves so fast that he can cause shockwaves, and collateral damage all around him just by virture of that alone.

His senses are all greatly enhanced which includes his hearing, sight, and smell. He was able to track Jack the Ripper down by scent, hear the heartbeats of a bunch of people who were hiding far away from him, and see things from great distances.

He has meat vision that lets him see inside a person's body which includes their internal organs, veins, and nerves.

He has knowledge on a bunch of pressure points and nerve blocks that can knock out someone, paralyze them, or outright kill them.

He could see the thousands of moves his oppenents make as early on as the Strange Talent of Luther Strode which was ten years ago and before he met the Librarian.

Now his analytic precognition has grown much, much more powerful and he can trick the analytic precognition of others. He does this against Miyamoto Musashi making him see what he wants him to.

Which means the Midnighter's analytic precognition is now useless against him.

Just going by their individual showings Luther Strode should be able to fight evenly with the Midnighter. The biggest advantages being his healing factor, and the fact he can trick the Midnighter's analytic precognition. Which nets him an obvious win.

I would argue that Luther Strode is faster too.

Well, unless you take the Midnighter being able to tag faster than light metahumans seriously. As well as the instances he hurts people who wouldn't even be tickled by an atomic explosion.

Those showings are kind of like Deathstroke being able to tag the Flash, and Batman being able to kick Darkseid in the face.

Not at all consistent, and if taken seriously you would have to argue for the Midnighter being faster than light and being capable of dishing out striking blows comparable to that of the Juggernaut or the Hulk.

Suffice to say that is well beyond the Midnighter's normal capabilities.

Midnighter would probably win

Which is because of what reasons precisely?

Luther after a good fight.

He has the Superior Physicals and strength and probably speed. And his pre-cog will even the plain field.

Don't forget that Luther Strode can counteract analytical precognition now.

So, the Midnighter won't be able to predict his moves like he normally does.

Plus going by how it was described by Luther after he defeated Musashi he can feed the Midnighter false information.

Luther should win here.

@elijah_c_washington: I only recall him REALLY struggling with the dude who could see a few seconds into the future while fighting, meaning he could see ALL the ways his opponents were about to attack him, which was a hard counter to Midnighter's ability to predict an opponents next move.

Not prediction of the future, literally seeing the future.

@sebast_allen: Good point.

@elijah_c_washington: Really great thread though :), props to you ????

Bump.

@elijah_c_washington: Is this Luther the same as the one from Legacy of Luther?

@linsanel_doctor said:

Yeah.

@elijah_c_washington: Gotcha.

@falconc2: Props on that respect thread you made, but I think you're embellishing a bit in your comment. Here are some of the comments I take issue with:

Basically, Luther Strode is nearly immortal and can only be killed by destroying his head.

Not really. Other talented characters have been killed by having their hearts ruptured or spines ripped out such as the Librarian in the initial series. Luther's definitely a power house with a killer healing factor, but you're definitely exaggerating here.

He moves so fast that he can cause shockwaves, and collateral damage all around him just by virture of that alone.

I honestly don't buy into the whole shockwave bit. Like Justin Jordan has said it's just Tradd's artstyle. He uses "visual flourishes" to show movement and enhance the artwork, but I don't think it's meant to be tangible showings of breaking the sound barrier like a lot of people seem to think.

He could see the thousands of moves his oppenents make as early on as the Strange Talent of Luther Strode which was ten years ago and before he met the Librarian.

This was definitely a hyperbole.

Which means the Midnighter's analytic precognition is now useless against him.

Through the study of the Hercules method he learned how to trick other users of the method. I'm not sure if he can fool other forms of precognition.

@elijah_c_washington: An engine block? Anyway, is this Strange Talent of Luther Strode or The Legend of Luther Strode feats? I'll play devil's advocate and say Strode, his pre-cog is far less superior than Midnighter's but since he is New 52 Midnighter the gap is not as huge. Plus Strode is faster and stronger and a little more brutal.

@darth_wayne: Yeah, in Midnighter #07 'rips out' (parenthesis required because as looked neatly dismantled, lol) an engine block and chucks it at.... I think it might have been some sort of jungle cat/elephant hybrid.

And this is current Strode, so Legacy.

@thenaughtytitan:

"Props on that respect thread you made, but I think you're embellishing a bit in your comment.Here are some of the comments I take issue with:"

No, I am really not. It's just that you're bunching a lot of the weaker practitioners of the method with Luther Strode.

"Not really. Other talented characters have been killed by having their hearts ruptured"

The only example that exists is when Luther Strode tore out the Gardener's heart which is more than it just rupturing.

Unlike the Shooter he did not warrant being hunted down by Binder. Which means he is weaker than the Bound.

His only claim to fame is the fact he might have completed the pilgrimage to Cain's Sanctum.

Which is not a showing of his talent but rather what he knows about the Cult of Cain.

"or spines ripped out such as the Librarian in the initial series."

Nope.

Luther Strode ripped out his spine AND tore his head off along with it.

The Librarian was also noted to be weaker than Luther Strode and Jack the Ripper by Binder who compared himself to him.

"Luther's definitely a power house with a killer healing factor, but you're definitely exaggerating here."

No, I am not.

After Jack the Ripper got cut in half Luther Strode still had to crush his head after Petra already stabbed him in the face with her chainsaw.

Luther Strode is far above Jack the Ripper now, and we have people like Delilah who are over three-thousand years old despite not being that particularly talented.

"I honestly don't buy into the whole shockwave bit. Like Justin Jordan has said it's just Tradd's artstyle.He uses "visual flourishes" to show movement and enhance the artwork, but I don't think it's meant to be tangible showings of breaking the sound barrier like a lot of people seem to think."

No, when Justin Jordan said that he was referring to how Jack the Ripper's eyes had a blue misty light to them.

Besides that, Justin Jordan is a pathological liar and has no place in a versus context. He would literally throw everything we see in the series out for his interpretation which pins Luther Strode as being only slightly stronger than a peak human which is a laugh.

In which case can I throw everything we see the Midnighter do out the window since afterall maybe the artstyle isn't accurate to what he is actually supposed to be capable of?

We see the shockwave cause collateral damage to the mall. That is not something that is stylistic. That's destroying a lot of stuff around you by moving really, really fast.

"This was definitely a hyperbole."

Okay then, the statements about the Midnighter's analytical precognition are hyperbole as well.

You see I can play this game too.

"Through the study of the Hercules method he learned how to trick other users of the method. I'm not sure if he can fool other forms of precognition."

The Midnighter's precognition is exactly like the kind of precognition Luther Strode and the other practitioners of the method use. It's based off analyzing all the possible moves a person can make, and countering the most likely one that will be made.

Why would it be free from being subject to this trick Luther Strode learned considering how similiar it is?

@falconc2:

No, I am really not. It's just that you're bunching a lot of the weaker practitioners of the method with Luther Strode.

Other users of the method are all we have to go off of, though. I understand that you're trying to calculate how much better Luther's healing factor should be based off of the Strode hierarchy, but that isn't exactly a substantial reason to believe he's insusceptible to anything other than brain based attacks when he simply doesn't have the feats to prove that statement.

The only example that exists is when Luther Strode tore out the Gardener's heart which is more than it just rupturing.

True, "rupture" is definitely putting it lightly.

Nope.

Luther Strode ripped out his spine AND tore his head off along with it.

My bad on this one. It's been a while since I read the first series.

No, I am not.

After Jack the Ripper got cut in half Luther Strode still had to crush his head after Petra already stabbed him in the face with her chainsaw.

Luther Strode is far above Jack the Ripper now, and we have people like Delilah who are over three-thousand years old despite not being that particularly talented.

Again these calcs leave me skeptical, because the true limits of Luther's healing factor is haven't really been delved into.

No, when Justin Jordan said that he was referring to how Jack the Ripper's eyes had a blue misty light to them

I'm not saying he was directly referring to the sonic booms. I'm just pointing out that in the book there's a ton of visual flourishes used. Such as a paper towels being given speed streaks when thrown into the trash. Like I said I don't think the sonic booms are meant to be tangible showings of speed and ferocity.

Besides that, Justin Jordan is a pathological liar and has no place in a versus context. He would literally throw everything we see in the series out for his interpretation which pins Luther Strode as being only slightly stronger than a peak human which is a laugh.

He's not exactly consistent, but he's still spot on about the visual flourishes which are used throughout the entire book (even on the actions of regular humans).

In which case can I throw everything we see the Midnighter do out the window since afterall maybe the artstyle isn't accurate to what he is actually supposed to be capable of?

Tradd has a very unique style and he does use a lot of visual flourishes for even the most simple movements in his books. I'm not trying to lowball Luther's showings in order to debate for Midnighter. I don't aim to argue for Midnighter here.

We see the shockwave Luther Strode cause collateral damage to the mall. That is not something that is stylistic. That's destroying a lot of stuff around you by moving really, really fast.

What exact panel/showing are we talking about when you say shockwave? Because I feel we may be discussing different instances.

Okay then, the statements about the Midnighter's analytical precognition are hyperbole as well.

You see I can play this game too.

Like I said I don't have any sort of allegiance to Midnighter in this discussion. I'm simply inquiring about some of your comments. Luther's precognition has been shown on panel and it doesn't look like a thousand moves ahead to me. Surely he can see multiple steps/possibilities ahead, but doesn't 1000 sound a bit exaggerated to you?

Librarian isn't a stranger to hyperbolic statements either. As shown by this panel which is on the same page as the "1000 moves ahead" line.

The Midnighter's precognition is exactly like the kind of precognition Luther Strode and the other practitioners of the method use. It's based off analyzing all the possible moves a person can make, and counteracting the most likely one that will be made.

Why would it be free from being subject to this trick Luther Strode learned considering how similiar it is?

Luther's comment after he tricks Musashi leads me to believe his training and understanding of the Hercules Method in particular was what allowed him to trick the precognition talented possess, so it's definitely debatable that he could affect precognition of a different origin in the same way.

@thenaughtytitan:

"Other users of the method are all we have to go off of, though."

Which is relevant because practitioners of the sacrament are able to do everything that we see them do based off of how good they are at commanding their meat to obey.

Practically everything they do is based off how talented they are.

"I understand that you're trying to calculate how much better Luther's healing factor should be based off of the Strode hierarchy,"

As well as what Luther Strode's standing is within the story itself based on character statments, and what we see him do.

It's no calculation. What it is the application of what we know for a fact from other practitioners of the method.

"but that isn't exactly a substantial reason to believe he's insusceptible to anything other than brain based attacks when he simply doesn't have the feats to prove that statement."

The Binder or just Binder if you prefer exploits this specifically in his fight against Luther Strode by using neurotoxins that prevented his brain from communicating with his body.

Binder specifically refers to the Bound as a group when it comes to their practical immortality.

Taken from the Legend of Luther Strode #5.

http://i.imgur.com/3eRBL1Y.jpg

As for Luther Strode's own showings when it comes to healing as early on as the Strange Talent of Luther Strode he could do this.

Taken from the Strange Talent of Luther Strode #6.

http://i.imgur.com/2ywci46.jpg

"True, 'rupture' is definitely putting it lightly."

You can say that again, and it wasn't even the fact his heart got ripped out that killed the Gardener it was the ridiculous blood loss which happened as a result of this.

Taken from the Legacy of Luther Strode #2.

http://i.imgur.com/a3cYcYu.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/N8nUrYq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/3o1F2tO.jpg

Again the Gardener is never implied to be anything that special besides his knowledge of where Cain's Sanctum might have been.

"My bad on this one. It's been a while since I read the first series."

Okay then but just for reference here is the scene again.

Taken from the Strange Talent of Luther Strode #6.

http://i.imgur.com/M66FVgt.jpg

"Again these calcs leave me skeptical, because the true limits of Luther's healing factor is haven't really been delved into."

Actually, yes they have been. You can stop Luther Strode's healing factor by preventing his brain from communicating with his body. As noted by the Binder who used neurotoxins in order to facilitate this.

Taken from the Legend of Luther Strode #2.

http://i.imgur.com/tzPVnAW.jpg

Where the Binder strikes both his nerve clusters with knives, and said knives were coated in powerful neurotoxins.

Despite this Luther Strode is still able to fight it off, and defeat Binder meaning that even with his brain's connection to his body muffled he can still command his meat to obey.

"I'm not saying he was directly referring to the sonic booms. I'm just pointing out that in the book there's a ton of visual flourishes used. Such as a paper towels being given speed streaks when thrown into the trash. Like I said I don't think the sonic booms are meant to be tangible showings of speed and ferocity."

This is not a speed streak I am talking about, and the sonic booms do not fall under this because they usually cause tanigle damage when they happen.

It's impossible for it have been stylistic because otherwise if it was it would be like Deadpool using text boxes as stepping stones. It's something that can be felt, and does something instead of just being there to look cool.

"He's not exactly consistent,"

Oh, it's more than just that he tells us that Luther Strode is dead and that the story is over in the author notes after the Strange Talent of Luther Strode #6. Which is right before we see Luther Strode waking up in the morgue, and the teaser for the Legend of Luther Strode in the very same issue.

"but he's still spot on about the visual flourishes which are used throughout the entire book (even on the actions of regular humans)."

It's not just visual flourishes Justin Jordan dismisses visuals that contradict what he says completely. He is like someone who treats characters as if they are statistic sheets instead of people who do things that we can see happen.

Just take for example the fact he said Luther Strode dodges bullets by looking at the barrel of a gun, and assessing where someone is going to shoot. Despite numerous showings where we see practitioners of the method react to bullets after they have already been fired. This including Luther Strode.

Taken from the Legacy of Luther Strode #3.

http://i.imgur.com/0as4oDo.jpg

Where we see Luther Strode change the trajectory of five different bullets at once.

It's at the point where it's egregious. You could show JJ an example of Luther Strode punching a hole in several feet of concrete, and he would say it was because he hit a pressure point.

Which is why his words have no place in a versus context because they heavily contradict what we see.

"Tradd has a very unique style and he does use a lot of visual flourishes for even the most simple movements in his books. I'm not trying to lowball Luther's showings in order to debate for Midnighter. I don't aim to argue for Midnighter here."

I am not talking about visual flourishes here. I am talking about shockwaves that leave damage in the surroundings and destroy things. If it was a visual flourish this attention to detail would have not been included.

There would have just been the visual flourish itself, and none of this collateral damage.

"What exact panel/showing are we talking about when you say shockwave? Because I feel we may be discussing different instances."

It happens in the Abberline Mall when Luther Strode fights Jack the Ripper.

Specifically in the Legend of the Luther Strode #6.

http://i.imgur.com/RTJUBdx.jpg

"I said I don't have any sort of allegiance to Midnighter in this discussion. I'm simply inquiring about some of your comments."

Then why bring it up against Luther Strode when we're comparing his analytic precognition to the Midnighter's? What other way do we have to quantify them?

"Luther's precognition has been shown on panel and it doesn't look like a thousand moves ahead to me."

It doesn't but neither does the Midnighter's analytic precognition look like it's predicting all of the millions of moves his oppenents are making before they do them.

"Surely he can see multiple steps/possibilities ahead, but doesn't 1000 sound a bit exaggerated to you?"

Mayhaps but I was just going by what was quantifiable for the both of them because otherwise we would have to find some other way to measure them against each other.

"http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11120/111207460/5110072-0228540008-rsz_p.jpg

Librarian isn't a stranger to hyperbolic statements either. As shown by this panel which is on the same page as the '1000 moves ahead' line."

Circumstantial evidence at best since the Librarian is not refering to that when he says hyperbole. He is talking about when he says that he knows Luther Strode wants to dance in a rain of blood.

This also shows how sickeningly polite the Librarian is. If it was hyperbole he would have noted as such.

Taken from the Strange Talent of Luther Strode #4.

http://i.imgur.com/6KDhzeU.jpg

Which he clearly does not.