Kuvira vs Toph

The shows creators stated in a Q&A that Toph could give Kuvira a good fight. Who do you think would win?

Team Avatar and THE United Forces have fallen and Republic City has been conquered, and is now fully apart of the Earth Empire. Everyone has been killed including the Beifongs. Toph is out for revenge! She journeys to RC to confront Kuvira

• Win by KO or Death
• Morals off, Bloodlust on
• Toph is not experiencing back problems
• 1 hour prep (knowledge)
• Start 10 metres apart
• Standard Equipment; Kuvira can use her metal sheets
• The benders cannot directly influence the metal on their each other's clothing

Location:

@pooty @koays@etheral_dreams@lunacyde@arcus@princearagorn1@juiceboks@killerwasp @metaljimmor @wbr17 @lvenger @nighthunder@rogueshadow@kidphillip@deathhero61@knightofzero@dextersinister@norrinboltagonprime21@solidwall211@scouter @thevivas @rijehu @comicstooge@redbird3rdboywonder@kaang_the_watcher@dreadpool10@arcus@korraspirit@ssj_god@gizmorino@knightofzero@theguywithnoname88@aressword@joewell@nighthunder@justsomerandomkid@hyperlight@mrunsmiley

please.... even with her back pain toph will win...

here toph stomps.

Toph

Hmm. Both manhandled Korra rather easily. Though I'd probably go with Kuvira. I think Toph would get speed blized to honest.

Toph is old and fridge while Kuvira is extremely agile and fast with her metal sheets. Toph probably could deflect a couple(barely), she would simply be overwhelmed by Kuvira's speed. Furthemore, Toph already knew she couldn't beat Kuvira hence why she ran away like a coward. There was nothing stopping her from challenging Kuvira right there and then.

, but she left. She easily soled the army.

Toph is old and no longer in her prime. Kuvira effortlessly beat Su. Toph is blind so she cannot see Kuvira's metal sheers when used as projectiles hence she cannot dodge. Once Kuvira tags her, she bends her body in a blood bending fashion, like she did to Korra.

Kuvira curbstomps. Kuvira>>Old Toph>=Lin>Suyin

I'd probably lean towards Kuvira.

@korraspirit: she left because plot and because she didn't want to fight. @loklegends: Toph one shotted Kuvira's forces that had Lin, Su, and the twins beaten. Toph might not be in her prime, but that doesn't mean she's weak. We've never seen her in her prime.

Kuvira rapes current Toph. Toph does her back in before landing a hit in which Kuvira one shots her. However, Prime Toph slaughters.

because she didn't want to fight.

That is just a lame excuse used by the creators to get rid of the ATLA characters, who would easily deal with Kuvira. This season has been full of excuses. Korra losing Kuvira due to her mental issues. Su losing to Kuvira because of plot armour. Toph's back aches. There is no in-universe reason for Toph not taking out Kuvira right then and there. The only thing we can conclude that she though she couldn't beat her.

Toph one shotted Kuvira's forces that had Lin, Su, and the twins beaten

Firstly, she one shotted fodder.

Secondly, Lin and Su weren't beat. They could have soled everyone there. Unless you think nameless privates>Lin and Su. The only problem was the mechs, but they could have found a way around them eventually. As shown this season, the mech's can be damaged by powerful earth bending attacks, which can harm the operator inside. Both Lin and Su are agile enough to dodge their attacks.

Secondly, Toph completely blindsided them. Do you really think an attack like that would have worked in a straight up fight. It was an earthquake. The Mechs could have jumped over it. As shown in "The Reunion" the mechs have shown to the capability to jump several metres into the air. They did this against Bolin

@avatarreiko: Toph's hardly weak now. She one-shotted the forces that had Lin, Su, and the twins beaten. We've never seen her in her prime

@loklegends:

Excuse or not, it's what the writers decided to do. Doesn't mean Toph was scared

Unlike a lot of fodder, Kuvira's soldiers are actually competent. The mechs have only ever been damaged by lava, not earth

Regardless, it was a powerful feat of earthbending, not to mention control, making it go around the Beifongs

Toph calls her daughters weak metal benders... and I believe that she meant it.

Without back problems... I believe Toph wins.

@loklegends:

Still a strong fear of power and control

@loklegends: missed this the first time, Toph can sense metal, she can handle the metal sheets

Unlike a lot of fodder, Kuvira's soldiers are actually competent.

Are they? Can you give me examples of their competence. Because to me, they are no different to every other nameless fodder. I actually think the Yu-An archers are more competent than the Earth Empires as they actually bested the Avatar in combat, and successfully captured him. Granted, he wasn't fully realised, but he was still air bending master nonetheless.

@combatt

Toph calls her daughters weak metal benders... and I believe that she meant it.

That is just Toph being her cocky and arrogant self. She always overrates herself and goes around claiming herself to be the best earth bender in the world. There are millions of people in the world. she hasn't fought every single earth bender, there is no way to prove such claim. In fact, she failed to defeat Bumi in a one on one earth rumble, who undoubtedly has better earth bending feats. The only benders Toph ever beat were fodders, and that is fact.

Granted, she is the mother of metal bending, but developing one technique does not automatically make her the best earth bender existence.

Toph senses the "vibrations" in the Earth and interprets those vibrations to determine her opponent's whereabouts and to predict their movements. She cannot feel/sense and subsequently dodge/ projectiles in mid air. This is shown when Sokka drops the metal/stone belt on her head, and when Aang blasted her with air bending. Lin even points out in "Operation Beifong" that Bolin would have to catch everyone because Toph couldn't see them.

Do we actually have proof of Toph being able to handle the metal sheets though? She is significantly older now and her speed and reactions are probably not as good as they were in her youth. Not to mention her stamina.

tophs earth rumble with bumi was stopped and was called a draw by sokka

@loklegends:

They were holding their own against the Beifongs for starters, they actually showed the ability to dodge and block attacks, unlike a lot of fodder like fire nation soldiers for example. The Yuyan are another example of competent fodder

Toph could sense the metal in Korra's body that Su couldn't

@loklegends:

She hadn't discovered metal bending then

She's shot fire navy projectiles out of the air and regularly deals with projectile attacks like the Dai Li's gloves

Exactly. "A draw". She couldn't beat him

@arcus

They were holding their own against the Beifongs for starters

Where they? Seemed evident to me that the Beifongs were dominating. And as I already mentioned, Toph blindsided them completely. What TOph did was no different to Unalaq blindsiding Korra when she was about to seal Vaatu in the ToT

Toph could sense the metal in Korra's body that Su couldn't

Korra's body was in direct contact with the ground/Earth, was it not? We stand on the ground. Toph wouldn't have been able to sense if say, Korra was on an air spout.

I never saw it as Suyin being incapable if bending it out. While it is true that Suyin did not bend all of it, I would say it is no different than, say, If I was sweeping the floor and I missed one small crumb. It could be down to concentration or me not paying attention. I have no doubt that if Su knew that there was Metal still in there, she'd be able to bend it out with more focus and concentration. Korra was fully capable of bending it out, and it should go without saying that Suyin's metal bending>>>Korra's

If Toph is capable of that, why couldn't se react to Sokka dropping a metal belt on her head.

This thread is hilarious. Toph would get speed blitzed by Kuvira because she's old and therefore slow? Toph seemed to be doing just fine against Korra. And since when does Toph being blind mean she would get taken out by Kuvira's metal projectiles? She invented metalbending! As soon as Kuvira would move into the stance required to launch one, Toph would sense the attack pattern and the trajectory and counter. Su gave Kuvira a good run for her money, and she's no Metalbending Master. Toph wins this with mild difficulty only because of the age factor. Remember, Kuvira's strength isn't in her bending, but as a tactician.

- Omniscience

In my eyes Tophs "back" is a really lame excuse as I was wanting to see her actually fight.

Old lady toph is to low on feats so Kuvira By a tech win.

@loklegends:

and neither could bumi beat her...

kuvira's metal bending with her metal sheets, if we watch it... requires some of her movements

I don't see kuvira beating toph, or being a very exceptional metal-bender.

She's only a little better than suyin, beating korra isn't a rare feat for legend of korra villains...

So, yeah... still Toph, and she did say that she's discovered more about metal in her years of solitude.

i agree that toph should win this. she could theoretically just bend the metal on kuvira's body to crush her

some people really like kuvira i see....... i'll just repeat my comment

but yeah... kuvira is prettier than toph right now

@loklegends:

The fight ended with them being surrounded, shields destroyed. They were holding their own against superior numbers, but they were hardly dominating

Well clearly Su thought she had it all, but she didn't. The metal's inside Korra's body, plus Toph told her it was there and talked her through it

Because she hadn't learned to bend, and therefore sense, metal yet

The problem here is that the fan's love for the character is leading to claims being made that disregard feats shown. And this, I think, is where most of the sank stems from. Even in ATLA, Toph never bested a non-fodder bender. And that is fact. The Dai Li gave her difficulty to due to their unique fighting style.

Kuvira flat out has better feats than old Toph, and has shown to be fast, agile and precise. She also uses neutral jin. Toph has raw power, but Kuvira has more precision and is more efficient with her metal bending. Kuvira's arm knife would cut though Toph like butter. Toph does not have the reaction feats to counter and is not as agile. It was shown in "The Rift Part 1 that Toph struggles to dodge and counter melee weapons at close close range. One of the Rough Rhino's nearly cut her in half. Alterntively, Kuvira has her arm capable that she ca sue to disrupt that Toph is doing/

We also have the creators themselves(Mike and Bryan) stating that "Toph would give Kuvira a good fight". No where does that imply that Kuvira would lose.

Remember viners, we go by feats. If there are limited feats, we go by statements.

Toph.

Echolocation > Kuvira, any movement kuvira makes... Toph already has a counter for.

also, if Toph can sensing the little bits of metal inside Korra's body... I doubt that she'd have a hard time sensing and dodging the larger METAL SHEETS kuvira has.

@gxrevolution96: toph

Too premature mane.

toph

So Toph is invincible then? Because that is what you are implying.

Easy said than done otherwise Su could have bent Kuvira's armour

@omniscience

Toph seemed to be doing just fine against Korra.

You mean the Korra that was poisoned and not in tip top shape?

She invented metalbending!

Which means what exactly? Unalaq invented spirit taming by applying the concept of healing to spirits. Does that automatically make the strongest water bender of all time. Nope.

As soon as Kuvira would move into the stance required to launch one, Toph would sense the attack pattern and the trajectory and counter.

Okay, lets use this way of thinking. When AS Korra gets into stance to attack, Toph would sense the attack pettern and the trajectory and counter it, no problem.

Su gave Kuvira a good run for her money, and she's no Metalbending Master.

You lost me at the last part. It has been established as well shown, that Suyin is a metal bending master. Who do you think trained kuvira?

Kuvira's strength isn't in her bending, but as a tactician.

...Which she can use to beat Toph

@korraspirit: scans for her struggling with melee weapons?

The Dai Li gave her trouble because of numbers

People are giving kuvira too much credit for beating korra... which I say, isn't a rare or incredible feat in legend of korra... almost every villain beat her.

I'm saying Tophs echolocation beats Kuvira, kuvira who is only slightly better than suyin... suyin, who toph says "My girls never really picked up metalbending that well if you ask me."

Toph doesn't think her daughters aren't much as Metalbenders... what do you think she'll think about Kuvira? I'd say, the same because Kuvira is only just at the level as her daughters who never really picked up metalbending that well.

since it is bloodlusted, toph crushes kuvira with the armor she is wearing. toph beifuckingfong wins

Well clearly Su thought she had it all, but she didn't. The metal's inside Korra's body, plus Toph told her it was there and talked her through it

So what you are telling me is that Korra's metal bending>Su's? Because this is clearly not the case.

They were holding their own against superior numbers, but they were hardly dominating

They had the upper hand. Kuvira's troops couldn't touch them. When you are taking more damage than you are giving out, you are being dominated.

Ok lets stop getting crazy here.


Kuvira has no feats of raw power that measure up to Toph's earth wave in that episode. Toph's first conversation with Korra proved that she can sense metal so thats not a problem.

The only thing we have an issue on is reaction feats, which there's no proof that she lacks the mobility she had at a younger age outside of "my back hurts". Iroh complained about being an old man for 2 and half seasons and he still broke out of a prison without his bending.

Then there's Toph's fight with Korra. In which she moved even less then Kuvira did and completely owned Korra with both hands behind her back. You can argue Korra was sick...but that doesnt change the level of control Toph had.

The only way I see Kuvira winning is if she can get close enough to Toph that she can't dodge her sheets. And from what we've seen it's a possibility.....BUT it's also a possibility that Toph just crushes her with raw power and keeps Kuvira from ever getting near her.

Toph

@loklegends:

Korra with Toph's help was able to bend metal out of her own body that Su didn't get. That's just fact

I guess we have different definitions of dominated. If Lin, Su, and the twins had won, then we could say they dominated

Going with Toph here. She's way more experienced and has 10 times the skill in earthbending, if not more and also has way more skill in metalbending. I see Toph using Kuvira's own metal sheets against here when Kuvira hasn't even shot them. She'll crush Kuvira in her own armor.

@loklegends: plot, the same reason iroh never took on ozai even if he could have beaten him, it's always the avatar's destiny to stop world treats.

Toph will lose in a tough fight, kuvira is very fast, and toph one-shotting her army can also be done by a good earthbender, even bolin could have done so, it was just it was just an earth-roll or mini earthquake.

As I mentioned above, Toph is very cocky and arrogant, and enjoys having her ego stroked. This is a person that is only motivated when someone bows down to her tells he that she is "the greatest earth bender of all time". Her statements cannot be taken at face value. After all, a claim is only that. A Claim.

@arcus

@korraspirit said:

@martinceld said:

who toph says "My girls never really picked up metalbending that well if you ask me."Toph doesn't think her

daughters aren't much as Metalbenders... what do you think she'll think about Kuvira? I'd say, the same because Kuvira is only just at the level as her daughters who never really picked up metalbending that well.

As I mentioned above, Toph is very cocky and arrogant, and enjoys it having her ego stoke. This is a person that is only motivated when someone bows down to her tells he that she is "the greatest earth bender of all time". Her statements cannot be taken at face value. After all, a claim is only that. A Claim.

@arcus

Uuhm, what she says is actually shown, as Korra still had poison in her whilest Su and Lin thought all of it was out. She wasn't just being cocky

@gizmorino:

fast doesn't mean shit to toph, even the tiniest movement kuvira makes... toph can already detect it.

look at the difference of how toph and kuvira handled korra...

toph used less movements against korra, whilst kuvira had more.

Kuvira is an overrated korra villain, she's the 2nd worst villain in the series.

and detecting metal inside korras body proves Tophs metal sensing... she wasn't being just cocky, she proved a point by sensing it.