KOTOR Sith Lords vs CW Sith Lords

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Darth Malgus, Darth Nihilus, Emperor Vitiate, Exar Kun, Darth Traya, Darth Malak, Darth Revan, Darth Scion, Ulik Qel-Dorma

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Darth Vader, Darth Maul, Darth Tyranus, Darth Sidious

Death or KO.

All Sith Lords are working together for a common goal.

Battle on Korriban.

Team 2 stomps.

Interesting, I was afraid it might been a stomp for Team 1.

Darth Nihilus main power would be useless against Anakin, Palpatine and Dooku, that's like 3/4 of the other team. Ulic is outclasses by everyone on team two, especially Palpatine. Sion sucks sans his pseudo immortality; Traya, Revan and Malgus just isn't going to get it done.

@i_like_swords, @shootingnova , @burnface , @killerwasp , @penderor, @darthmanhunter, @reikai, @darthant66

Any thoughts?

@dccomicsrule2011: I added Vitiate.

With the new edits in place, team 1 could win through sheer number (though technically they still can't permanently defeat Palpatine's essence), but you used a picture of Darth Marr for Revan.

@shootingnova: Really? I typed Darth Revan and thought he looked like him too lol. That Revan look. Dont know who Darth Marr is, I take it he is from old Republic game?

@sirfizzwhizz: Yes.

@shootingnova: I will remember that.

Team 1 now, Vitiate, Nihilus, Revan, and Malgus, are darn powerful in their own right. Specially with Kun and Traya, I know nothing of Scion except statements and my memory is vague at best on them. But I feel the Numbers for team 1 can give them the win, and by teaming up they could probably keep Sidious in check while hopefully a few others could take Maul, Vader and Dooku. But there would be significant casualties for team 1 I feel.

Team 1 6/10 due to numbers.

Be a cool battle, specially seeing what Dooku and Vader could dish out TK wise too! Good battle.

Interesting.

You think Ulic can match Anakin, Dooku and Darth Maul? I think he is firmly below all of them in most categories.

@dccomicsrule2011: He's below them all as a duelist but not to the point he is outclassed. In fact he's only slightly behind Maul, and his barrier is sufficient to keep him in the game Force-wise. He's certainly of use here.

@dccomicsrule2011: I think the "s" in outclasses was supposed to be a "d". It would make the sentence make grammatical sense at least.

F*ck off Grammar Nazi. ^-^

@dccomicsrule2011:

Barrier can only protect him against direct telekinetic blasts and what not. It can't really save him from Choke.

Still, I wouldn't say he's outclassed, but he's probably the least potent member on his team. He has no offensive Force power worth noting, in contrast to the others (save for Sion), since his only notable Force powers are either miscellaneous or defensive.

@shootingnova:

Barrier can only protect him against direct telekinetic blasts and what not. It can't really save him from Choke.

His Force shield can do that.

Still, I wouldn't say he's outclassed

I would have hoped that would go without saying...

but he's probably the least potent member on his team.

He's probably around as useful as Exar and Sion.

He has no offensive Force power worth noting, in contrast to the others (save for Sion), since his only notable Force powers are either miscellaneous or defensive.

He has similar Force blasts as Exar Kun, which makes him pretty formidable.

@i_like_swords:

1. Force shield is another name for Force Barrier. Unless you were talking about Force Resistance, which really doesn't save him. I doubt he would last against Vader or Palpatine. Tyranus... maybe. Maul, probably.

2. It's more in response to DC's judgment, not yours.

3. Exar is more useful. I don't know how useful Sion is. In the midst of a fight, I doubt anybody would have time to try to convince him to die, so he could be pretty useful in the sense that he just keeps coming back. It's not that Ulic's useless, but he's likely the first to fall, barring circumstances where Sith just attack certain other opponents out of character morals or whatever.

4. He lacks the potency of Exar Kun, and to me, is probably even less likely to use offensive powers in a fight. His morals also dictate that he would be almost strictly a lightsaber combatant.

Still, team 1 wins every time, only they can't incapacitate Palpatine's essence.

@shootingnova:

Call it what you want (although direct TK is usually referred to as "breaking their Force shields"), Ulic's should be good enough for anyone but Palpatine.

His talisman is the mate of Exar's, and it's at least more powerful than Aleema. Cay, Nomi ect all thought it was deadly as well, and that was before Ulic made it into a gauntlet two years later. So I'd say it's pretty useful.

Yeah, Outclassed was too strong a word----I really meant was that all three (Anakin, Dooku, and Maul) are plainly above Ulic, to the point not even the best Star Wars debater could get me to agree that he would win more than 2-3 times out of 10.

@i_like_swords: His Force aura is the innate field that protects him against Force attacks. I specified direct telekinetic blasts, not Choke or what not. I don't see why Vader couldn't overpower him with the Force, though. He could resist Maul, but not somebody a couple of tiers ahead of Maul in Force power.

All we really know there is that it can summon Marka Ragnos, which won't happen here. Ulic has never actively drawn into it and used it offensively in fights, as far as I know. If we're just speculating about powers they possess via sourcebook entries, not ones they've shown in fights, even Sion could be helpful here with his powers.

@dccomicsrule2011: I think the word you were looking for is outmatched.

Yeah I think you're right.

ok

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I don't know what we're talking about now, you edited your post lol. Pretty sure we were talking about choke though. Ommin was unable to take Jedi Ulic out on a dark side nexus despite being able to casually take out Nomi Sunrider and Arca Jeth from ages away, so I'm sure that years later after gaining "tremendous dark power", and off-neuxs, he can resist Vader.

He has. Two years before turning it into a gauntlet, he hit Nomi with lightning, and it was just a warning shot, implying that if he had intended to use it properly he could have killed/seriously hurt the Jedi (hence why they called it deadly). So like I said, after reconstructing the talisman into a gauntlet I'm sure he found some combative use for it. If you need him blatantly using a blast to accept this then, I can't give you that, but I'm pretty sure he has a use for his talisman by his prime.

@i_like_swords: The use of blatant doesn't really fit in that sentence, but whatever.

I was talking about Choke not being able to be resisted, only direct Force blasts. As I recall, Vader briefly Choked and pushed Galen Marek and Starkiller, both of whom are more powerful than Ulic. He's also melted durasteel just by being angry, only a year after RotS. That, and calling down cathedrals whilst injured and just waking up from unconsciousness, decades before his prime, tell me that he could overpower Ulic. Not the others, though, except for Palpatine, obviously. Now, I doubt Vader will be able to use it because he would be bombarded from all sides by other Sith, but individually, I think he could.

That wasn't a proper fight. Nomi's powers seem to fluctuate, but I believe that wasn't her in her prime either. Still, the way her powers seem to work are interesting.

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Galen broke out instantly, don't know about SK.

I disagree about Vader. Although I'm unsure why Ulic's talisman, which he reconstructed into a gauntlet which is pretty much conclusive that he would blow things up with it if so inclined, isn't being considered as much of a factor, but Vader's TK which surfaces once in a lifetime is just going to be overpowering Ulic. But cool.

I'm pretty sure if someone attacks Ulic with the Force he will respond with his gauntlets.

@i_like_swords: Galen didn't break out instantly. It lasted a very brief duration.

lol @ Vader's TK surfacing once in a lifetime. And at least it's been used. I'm also not particularly keen on how much effect Ulic's so called Force blasts would have, since both Dooku and Vader have Deflection and are powerful enough to Deflect it with effort. Maul is probably more prone but he would probably be taken out by Vitiate or Traya or somebody else before Ulic could get a chance to attack him.

He probably will after being attacked, as long as that attack doesn't take him out.

@i_like_swords:

Vader's TK which surfaces once in a lifetime

Actually, Vader has used TK to get victories over foes on multiple occasions, I can name like 3 time of the backhand. Not to mention the times he has used TK in battle....

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Well we started off with Ulic having no offensive force powers worth noting, so there's some progress, I guess.

I don't think it will, so he probably will be able to respond.

So Ulic isn't outclassed and does have useful force powers.

What are those occasions? Although I think it's common sense that if anyone gets attacked with the Force they will try to respond. I was just curious as to why Ulic's power was being written off but not Vader's, since there are scenarios where Vader neglects to use his power where he easily could.

@i_like_swords: Is the "ok" meant to piss me off or something?

Well, they're not worth noting, since they're not going to be used. Vader, Dooku and Maul will be either overwhelmed by others or just too busy to be wasting their time singling out Ulic for Force attack, so Ulic has no reason to be responding with Force power. Palpatine would demolish him with a Force attack.

I would only agree that his Force powers are worth noting if it can be established that he will use them on consistent basis, and that will only happen once Vader or somebody else (other than Palpatine) attacks him with the Force directly, which I doubt would happen because of team 1's number edge.

Nobody intended for him to be outclassed (DC misspoke) and his Force powers are useful defensively. Even if they are used offensively, Maul is the only one who is unable to defend against them through Deflection or some other defensive Force power, but he would be ragdolled earlier on by others anyway.

LOL.

@i_like_swords:

What are those occasions?

Against Dark Woman, and two random Jedi--- I have the scans for one of the occasions; don't really feel like finding the rest:

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@darthant66:

Vitiate or Nihilus can win this alone, TBH (this is why I don't go on ComicVine, lol).

Vitiate and Nihilus would be wrecked by Palpatine if they face him one-on-one; who is factually the most powerful Sith Lord to exist.

@shootingnova:

Is the "ok" meant to piss me off or something?

Nope..

Well, they're not worth noting, since they're not going to be used. Vader, Dooku and Maul will be either overwhelmed by others or just too busy to be wasting their time singling out Ulic for Force attack, so Ulic has no reason to be responding with Force power. Palpatine would demolish him with a Force attack.

Sounds fair, Ulic isn't really needed tbh.

I would only agree that his Force powers are worth noting if it can be established that he will use them on consistent basis, and that will only happen once Vader or somebody else (other than Palpatine) attacks him with the Force directly, which I doubt would happen because of team 1's number edge.

Agreed. I believe Ulic, like Exar, is a duelist primarily but will defend himself and counter-attack with the Force once someone attacks him first, or if he can, simply throw up a barrier/shield and try to close the distance. That's not really important in this thread though.

Nobody intended for him to be outclassed (DC misspoke) and his Force powers are useful defensively. Even if they are used offensively, Maul is the only one who is unable to defend against them through Deflection or some other defensive Force power, but he would be ragdolled earlier on by others anyway.

Sounds fair.

@dccomicsrule2011: Ah cool, although IIRC he was having trouble outdueling the Jedi prior to killing Sha. His TK would of been useful there.

@darthant66:

Ah okay, so you have proof the authors who wrote the statements of Sidious being the most powerful Sith Lords had knowledge of Vitiate's existence even though his character wasn't even created yet?

Sources as recent as 2012-2013 have called Palpatine the most powerful....

Ignoring those statements; what has Vitiate done to say he could stomp Palpatine? Palpatine is the far superior duelist and his speed feats vastly outclass his.

@shootingnova: @i_like_swords:

Both make good points. Yup.

I am in the camp Nhilus by feats and statements would wreck Palpatine during RotS timeline, but thats me.

So while Palpatine is the greatest, does not change the fact these two are pretty high too. Thats My opinion as well.

Team one for a slight win from what I've seen for ur match

@sirfizzwhizz:

I am in the camp Nhilus by feats and statements would wreck Palpatine during RotS timeline, but thats me.

Based on what? Not only is Palpatine resistant to drain, but he has also used drain on a planitery scale. Not to mention he vastly outstrip Nihilus as a duelist and combat speed.

Nihilus has nothing that can be used to wreck Sidious.

Wat? When did I conceded anything?