Kirei Kotomine (Fate series) vs. Kamui (Gintama)

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LastSonOfIshval

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#1  Edited By LastSonOfIshval
Kirei Kotomine
Kirei Kotomine
Kamui
Kamui

- Composite feats for Both

- Both at their Best

- No Morals

- Bloodlust On

- Fight to the Death

- Who Wins?

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Germa66

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Kamui is better in basically better in every stat, he wins mid dif

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Theorder14

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Kirei could win if he gets acess to Angra Mainyu

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Vertigo-

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#4  Edited By Vertigo-

feats for Kamui?

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garrettmana

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I'm gonna go with Kamui in a good fight

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LastSonOfIshval

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zill0678

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OldKaiser

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Most likely Kamui, but I don't know too much about Kirei if I'm honest.

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Vertigo-

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can anyone post feats for Kamui?

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OldKaiser

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@blackestnight93: I can post some feats later today. Do you have any feats for Kirei?

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LpnQ

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#11  Edited By LpnQ

@youngkaiser said:

@blackestnight93: I can post some feats later today. Do you have any feats for Kirei?

Kirei kept up with a guy who was moving in triple speed squared.

Yeah it's weird.

Loading Video...

can someone please calculate the speed at 2:50.

Get's shot, it's registered that he got shot, moves arm out of way fast enough for the bullet to go through the elbow.

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Vertigo-

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@blackestnight93: I can post some feats later today. Do you have any feats for Kirei?

sure thing:

Can block bullets with no issue

No Caption Provided

can deflect machine gun fire easily

No Caption Provided

can react to someone moving four times peak human speed

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can effortlessly destroy a highly trained special forces soldier

No Caption Provided


I can post more, but I can also link you to a respect thread for him

https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/3ktbhf/respect_kotomine_kirei_fatezero_and_fatestay_night/

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OldKaiser

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@lpnq: @blackestnight93: Here are some fights Kamui has had.

Speed Feats (VS Okita Sougou)

Loading Video...

I included that extra bit at the start to show Kamui's umbrella and Okita's speed. Okita cut Kamui's bullet, but he has also cut sniper bullets.

Strength (VS Kagura, VS Aliens)

Loading Video...

As shown above, he can kick through trees and damage Kagura. While Kagura is nowhere as impressive as her brother, she is still a multi-tonner.

Kamui is strong enough to punch through people.

Kamui can also break necks and kick through stone.

Finally, here are some scans of him damaging a space-pod.

Nice.

Durability (VS Kagura, VS Housen, VS Takasugi)

He can block Takasugi's blade. Takasugi has been shown to slice through stone, as seen in his fight versus the aliens.

He can also take punches from Kagura with little visible damage. As you'll see in the skill section, he managed to fight Housen. Housen threw him through multiple walls, and Kamui didn't receive serious damage.

Skill (VS Housen)

Loading Video...

Can match Housen in combat. Housen is Kamui's physical superior, who is the most experienced and powerful Yato in existence.

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Vertigo-

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#14  Edited By Vertigo-

@youngkaiser: thanks for those. It'd be a close one, since a standard punch from Kirei has the force to destory a person's heart.

Kamui reminds me a lot of Gin from Bleach.

edit: just re-read the OP. Since this is Kirei at his best, he can just use all his command seals he had in F/Zero and amp himself to servant level stats. He should stomp here then

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LpnQ

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Just read op again.

Kirei summons archer into the fight :P if things get too rough for him.

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OldKaiser

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@blackestnight93: I kinda forgot to mention Kamui's healing factor. It's nothing spectacular, but it allowed him to heal from all the wounds he suffered against Housen in a few minutes.

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Vertigo-

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@youngkaiser: but can he heal internal organs? Kiritsugu healed his heart (after Kirei punched him once) thanks to an hax item he implanted within himself, Kirei then noted that he'd have to destroy his head in order to win.

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Vertigo-

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@youngkaiser: Fair enough then. Is Gintama worth watching in your opinion?

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OldKaiser

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#22  Edited By garrettmana

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TOATOAA

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kamui should win

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BoringPerson

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#24  Edited By BoringPerson

Gintama is definitely worth the watch!

Kirei's bullet cutting feat is insane by the way. In canon, Kiritsugu's firing a full-auto calico M-950... Which is 750 Rounds Per Minute. Which means 12.5 rounds per second. With Kiritsugu's standard cokebottle mags, that means Kirei blocks up to 50 bullets over the course of 4 seconds. He's at close range... so that's bullets moving at faster than 1000 feet per second.

He's also a world class healer in the NasuVerse... Through spirit healing he can bypass durability with extreme deftness (i.e. removing command seals from Shiro almost instantly with Spirit Healing). It's noted multiple times by multiple characters that minor mess ups in removing command seals would lead to severe paralysis or death. Even Rin with prep is unsure if she could remove Shiro's seals without a least paralyzing his arm.

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Cypher0120

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#25  Edited By Cypher0120

@boringperson:

Just wait til you see Hansa Cervantes in Fate/Strange Fake. He's essentially Cyborg Kirei 2.0 in that War based on his feats.

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COOLGUY18

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#27  Edited By COOLGUY18

Kirei's Reaction speed might be good, bit he is outclassed here in term of overall stats. Kamui could destroy him in one punch

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DevoidRuby

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Composite Kirei includes Rasputin who ones shots

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garrettmana

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sierra4hotel

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You've got to be absolutely high if you think Kirei Kotomine beats Kamui. I may have finished Gintama recently, and it has become my favourite show, but Fate is my favourite Franchise of all time. Kirei Kotomine is one of, if not my favourite villain. So, let that rid you of any bias here.

First off, Kirei couldn't even beat True Assassin; one of the weakest Servants in Stay Night. I know he's weaker in Stay Night, and he was in his prime in Zero, but Kirei is not capable of taking on Servants without some sort of advantage (lulling True Assassin into a false sense of security). Don't get me wrong, Kirei is an absolute beast when he was at his full strength in Fate/Zero. His physical feats were not even through reinforcement Magecraft, but through sheer training of his body to perform superhuman acts.

Kamui on the other hand is beyond human. When Yato fight, buildings collapse. Combat between the strongest of the Yato is similar to combat between Servants. The only people we've seen in Gintama that were capable of genuinely beating Kamui are Housen and Utsuro. He's one of the best fighters in the show, and that makes him one of the best fighters in the galaxy. That's when he's in control of himself. When he's hurt or riled up enough, his Yato instincts take over, and he becomes a monster. It took Kagura (his sister), Gintoki (a skilled warrior with a superhumanly indomitable will to continue fighting no matter his injuries - so deadly he was called the White Demon on the battlefield), and Shinpachi (who's above average in skill, but is a normal human) to hold him off. Every punch Kamui makes breaks bones, and shakes organs so much that you might as well be playing basketball with them. He's also got a severe skill advantage, because the fighting skills of the Yato are genetic. Training makes them more skilled, but just simply being alive without doing any training, they're already martial arts masters (the same way babies learn how to walk because it's an evolved trait, Yato are already skilled martial artists because it's an evolved trait).

You know how Kirei is fast enough to keep up with Kiritsugu moving at x4 speed? His little Sister Kagura (who is weaker) is capable of catching bullets with her fingers and teeth. That's already beyond what Kirei is capable of doing. As for strength, Kirei isn't capable of breaking mountains. Kamui is. Kamui is also a more skilled martial artist, combining his inborn fighting skills and a decade worth of fighting on battlefields all over the galaxy searching for stronger opponents to beat.

Now, to give Kirei some wiggle room here, the only advantage Kirei has is that Kamui is not invincible nor invulnerable. Kamui is not bulletproof, and can take damage if hit hard enough. While an average human is not going to be able to hurt him, anyone who is trained and physically strong could punch and hurt him (it probably won't even bother him, but it can hurt him). He's also vulnerable to bullets and blades. Given Kirei could punch so hard that he can crush someone's heart and send them flying 10ft across the room without any Magecraft, he's capable of punching Kamui and actually doing meaningful damage. He won't kill him in 1 punch, or even 10, 20 punches, but he can most certainly kill him if given the chance.

If given the chance... that's the key point.

Imagining a fight between Kirei and Kamui (assuming Kirei is at his best from Fate/Zero and not his weaker Stay Night self), the fight is going to be a lot like Kamui's fight with Sougo in Gintama. Sougo got the crap beat out of him, but he still found these tiny moments in their fight where he actually wounded Kamui several times. That is probably what is going to end up happening. Kirei is going to get the crap beat out of him, but find these little moments to leave some devastating slashes. But if his fight against Sougo, and fights following it say anything, those devastating wounds that Kirei inflicts on Kamui aren't going to make the fight any bit easier. Kamui won't slow down, and won't hit weaker. On the other hand, every hit Kamui lands on Kirei will slow Kirei down. It doesn't matter if Kirei blocks a flurry of punches. Kamui will just hit harder or faster until a punch lands, or Kirei's arms break. Kirei is capable of doing a fist fight half dead in Stay Night, so he can fight on past most wounds, but he won't last. In a 10 round fight, Kamui wins 9/10 times.

Kirei has no amount of Magecraft or martial arts skill to stop someone who is faster, stronger, and more skilled than he is. The longer the fight goes, the more he gets injured, the quicker he dies. The more punches he makes, the more attacks he blocks, the less chance he will have at winning. The only chance he has if he goes all out at the very beginning and somehow makes Kamui underestimate him.

The chances of even that happening are low, because Kamui doesn't go easy on people. He never throws a fight because he likes killing. It's either Kamui is trying, or he's REALLY REALLY trying. Kamui can also sense when his opponent is strong. Given Kirei's calm, cold demeanor, Kamui is going to smell the Executioner off of him.

9/10 times, Kamui is going to have a couple bruises. He'll have some cuts. He may even have 5 blades in his chest. But he'll casually walk it off. Kirei though is going to have half the bones in his body broken, missing limbs, no head, or he could even be ripped in half. He could even very well look like a deflated dummy by the end.

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sierra4hotel

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@boringperson: But Kamui could probably catch bullets with his teeth like his sister. Calculating speed or not, he doesn't seem much faster than Sougo.

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sierra4hotel

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@vertigo-: That's not how Command Spells work. He was using them as his Mana source, and they are only active temporarily. If they remained active, Kiritsugu's Origin round would have crippled him. At most, he could use all the Mana in them do Reinforcement to enhance his speed and strength for 1 attack. I doubt it is going to be Servant level though.

Even if it is, while it would definitely severely hurt Kamui, it's not going to stop him. Kamui had a large pipe running through his chest during his fight with Sougo, and he was happy to continue fighting without any physical issue. Kirei could break both of Kamui's arms, and Kamui will still punch him hard enough to crush his skill.