Jon Snow vs. Jaime Lannister

Do you really think tv Jaime would beat Jon ?? The latter seems to be more skilled and has plenty more feats in the show.

Also, who do you think would win in the following battles.

Jon vs Brienne

Jon vs The Hound

Jon vs The Mountain

Brienne vs The Mountain

The Hound vs The Mountain

The Hound vs Oberyn

Brienne vs Oberyn.

The Hound was sick from infection (had been walking slower, mainly used one side of his body throughout the fight and seemed to have diarrhea just before the fight) and she had a Valyrian steel sword. Otherwise I pretty much agree.

@rogueshadow:

True, somehow that slipped my mind. But then I'm operating on almost no sleep today.

Darn Show!Brienne and her hype built upon context heavy and highly circumstantial victories against big named fighters. It's almost like some unseen force is just setting up legendary warriors to lose to her to make her seem more important to the story...

@thor_parker82 I just really feel like I need to see Jon beat somebody skilled outright, he always loses and wins by happenstance when he comes up against somebody of real note (Karl, Styr), obviously, he's come a long way since then and I think those fights would go very differently against S6 Jon, but I really want to see him fight a noteworthy combatant and win. He does have a lot of feats, but it's just lots of killing fodder, and usually 2 at a time, compare that to somebody like Barristan who solo'd 12 men in his 60's and it's not that great. I just find Jaime's effortless killing of Jory to be more impressive personally, I think it's pretty underrated and overlooked to be honest. And while they haven't played it up on the show as much, I do still think he was supposed to have been very high tier, what with his '3 men in the 7 kingdoms' lines and what have you. It does come across as more boastful swaggering on the show. A few lines from Barristan and Ned could have remedied that.

• Jon vs Brienne - I want to say Jon, but I'll give it to Brienne for now. Comparable skill, plus superior reach, stronger and she wears armour. Would be cool to see two Valyrian steel wielders lock blades.
• Jon vs The Hound - Sandor. At least as skilled and ferocious, stronger by a mile without sacrificing any speed, far greater reach, plus armour and more experience. Jon will make him work for it though.
• Jon vs The Mountain - Difficult to picture Jon winning this, Kit Harington's only about 5'7", and I'm not sure how tall the Mountain is supposed to be on the show, but they try to make him look taller than the actor. Getting in close isn't a good idea with Gregor unless your a Sandor Clegane or Robert Baratheon, and if he does he has to get around the armour, and at a distance he can't do much.
• Brienne vs The Mountain - The Mountain. Brienne's fighting style is too direct, she can't hammer the Mountain down like she normally can.
• The Hound vs The Mountain - I give it to the Mountain, while not s strong, he can actually parry Gregor's blows, so unlike almost everybody else, he has the strength to actually lock blades with him and not get crushed. In every other regard bar reach he is Gregor's superior (speed, skill)
• The Hound vs Oberyn - I think the Hound wins but gets poisoned.
• Brienne vs Oberyn - I'd probably back Oberyn here.

Also, you should play the Game of Thrones videogame, it's pretty good.

@rogueshadow:

• The Hound vs The Mountain - I give it to the Mountain, while not s strong, he can actually parry Gregor's blows, so unlike almost everybody else, he has the strength to actually lock blades with him and not get crushed. In every other regard bar reach he is Gregor's superior (speed, skill)

You think The Hound is stronger than The Mountain ??

Also, you should play the Game of Thrones videogame, it's pretty good.

I didn´t know there was a videogame, is it for Xbox or Playstation ??

Also, if you had to make a Top 10 Rank of the best fighters in Game of Thrones (strictly tv versions), how would it go ??

@willpayton: I actually agree. I like Jon better but Jamie is one of If not the best sword in the series

I'd take him over anyone other than Arthur Dayne.

@willpayton: Yeah sword of the morning is above all agreed

No, I fudged up, that should say 'I give it to the Hound, while not as strong...'

What I mean to say is, he's one of the few characters who can get in close to Gregor and not get ragdolled like Oberyn did when he got chucked around.

You can get it for either one. It's Telltale though, so it's mainly decision based. I really liked it, but I know some people didn't, you seem to be on a GoT kick so I thought I'd let you know :) You basically play as a bunch of characters from House Forrester from the North who are trying to prevent the collapse of their House and stay alive.

It's really difficult to say for the show, because I feel like Jaime should be top 3, but I don't think they go far enough with how good he is. Factoring in feats, accolades, reputation...

1. Arthur Dayne - Taking on Ned (in his prime and fresh from war no less, and we know that well past his prime and without practice he can at least contend with Jaime) + 3 other swordsmen is next level.
2. Barristan Selmy - Armourless and alone he fought 12 men, only falling to the 11th... in his sixties. In his prime it's difficult to imagine anybody but Dayne beating him.
3. Sandor Clegane - Logistically, he's just a nightmare to face; extremely strong, extremely fast, extremely skilled, massive reach and wears armour. Plus, he's shown himself to be exceptionally skilled, despite being in a tight place (particularly bad for a 6' 6" longsword wielder) he beat 5 men down at once, earlier we saw him easily defeat 3 Frey men, contend with a bloodlusted Gregor despite holding back, he even beat Ser Beric Dondarrion despite being hungover and facing his phobia.
4. Oberyn Martell - His unconventional fighting style, skill, speed, agility and range just make him exceptionally dangerous to the vast majority of characters. He had his fight with Gregor won, and was punking him for most of it.
5. Jaime Lannister - I've recently reevaluated show Jaime, I do think he's written as being high tier overall, he simply doesn't have the exposure or the accolades to get into the top 3 in my opinion.
6. Bronn - One of the best warriors going, certainly one of the quickest. Took on multiple Dornishmen on horseback, Ser Vardis Egen, who was younger than his book counterpart, and seemed to be depicted as one of the best knights in Lysa's court, his kukri throwing also adds another element to him.
7. Gregor Clegane - Not exceptionally skilled or fast, but his sheer strength, range and durability earn him this place in my opinion, the guy's a tank.
8. Brienne of Tarth - All of her notable wins are predicated on pretty heavy context, even against Loras he was getting shot after shot in but his sword was blunted since it was a tourney, but she's still, big, strong, fast and does consistently show solid skill.
9. Jon Snow - His display at the battle of Winterfell earned him this spot, his overall skill and awareness was exceptionally impressive.
10. Eh, not sure, I'm thinking Jorah Mormont, Tormund Giantsbane, Syrio Forel, Ned Stark... it's difficult to say.

I dunno, might be forgetting some people and/or making some mistakes. I'm only truly sure of the top 3, I change my mind a lot. There are others who logically should be great but we haven't seen enough of, like Greyworm. It's also not an A > B > C system. Because style and gear plays a large part here. I also feel like Tormund is probably actually sill above Jon in universe, but we never track him in the battle of Winterfell like we do Jon, he simply doesn't have the same level of exposure, but we've never seen Jon slay somebody as skilled as Alliser like that in single combat. Hell, that random Braavosi pit fighter Jorah fought was crazy good.

Honourable mention: Khal Drogo. His disadvantage is that Dothraki have not encountered full plate armour, but then at the same time, people rarely wears helmets on the show, or proper full plate so it won't be hard to hit once or twice, see it isn't working and then go for the head or the very obvious weak spots. I usually extricate Dothraki from consideration, they are there own thing. If we're talking pure skill, no armour in single combat... he's probably 4th or 5th in my opinion.

Pretty much, D&D have a thing for Brienne. Another when she's wandering vast grasslands hundreds and hundreds of miles across, she just happens to bump into the exact person she's looking for, Arya, Sansa... then, in the middle of a battlefield with thousands of men, she just happens across Stannis Baratheon so she can deliver justice for the 'True King' even though he was Stannis' younger brother, incompetent and a traitor. I don't know what all the fuss is about with these White Walkers to be honest, Brienne, Ramsay and his 20 good men would've sorted them out.

The brutal slog that was infected Sandor vs Brienne was how chained up, malnourished and atrophied Jaime vs Brienne should have played out. I mean, Brienne's good in the books, great even, but they've amped her so much, even with a Valyrian steel blade she barely beat 3 men. I wouldn't even mind that much, but not at the expense of nerfing other characters who should be tiers and tiers above her. And they never make it clear, your casual viewer will think Brienne's the best warrior in the world. Yes I'm petty, lol.

killing 10 people in a battle is different than killing 10 people who are trying to capture you. In a battle everybody is everywhere, chaos, blood, adrenaline, and nobody focusing too hard on any one combatant. Instead everybody is fighting the nearest threat and trying to survive.

Jamie's army was defeated and Rob's men were going to capture him because he was an extremely valuable hostage. That's 10+ men vs one man, with everybody's eye on Jamie. Jamie killed 10 men when it was 10 men vs Jamie.

Jon killed men in a battle when it was Jon's men vs Ramsey's men.

I actually agree with this assessment. Also, if memory serves, they were going after Jaime because Jaime was trying to go after Robb. Jaime's ability to slice through Robb's men - who were trying to protect their lord - like that is really impressive.

Lets just face it, Jaime is a boss, even with his limited expose in the show. It's so sad that he lost his hand. That's one of my least favorite things that happen in the show because I would have loved to see him in more fights. Same with Arthur Dayne. I want to see more.

I agree and disagree. Jaime losing his hand made him grow as a character even if i wanted to see him kick ass more. Me, i wanted to see more Sir Barristan laying the smacketh.

@rogueshadow: Jon most definitely beats Brienne. His feats definitely outweigh hers. Her biggest feats are against opponents with an extreme handicap, Jaime was chained and starved while Sandor only had one arm and was sick.

@willpayton: He's right, Jaime had to lose his hand in order to become the man that he needed to be. It's an important part of his arch and will ultimately lead to him killing Cersei. I'm not sure he would have killed her before.

From a storytelling point of view it was great. I didnt expect it, and it's what I love about the show. But I also hated it because I want to see him kick ass and I want more badass sword fights.

@willpayton: Oh I'm with you man, I hated seeing it because he was so much of a badass. As Brienne said, it was a horrendously cruel thing to do. It was like cutting the paw off of a lion.

It's a testament to how great this show is (I havent read that books, hence why I'm only talking about the show) that we care so much about the characters and about all the great stuff that happens... whether we're happy, disappointed, angry, or whatever. The show is great and inspires people to get invested in what happens and feel real emotions.

@willpayton: that's why it is in my opinion the best show of all time, definitely My favorite as well as favorite book series

Jamie in his prime probably stomps Jon.

However, how old is Jon? Early 20's? Jon may mature to be a great swordsman worthy of this match up.

Yeah, same here.

@rogueshadow: Khal Drogo´s dead was one of the worst things on the show, he was one of my favorite characters and a total badass, I loved every time when he got in "crazy" mode and started screaming around, he basically only has one showing from what I remember, but it was badass as hell, he just threw away his weapons and defeated the other Dothraki like he was nothing, I really think that if Drogo had lived, he would be top tier, I´d pay anything to see him fight The Hound.

For the most part, I agree with your top 5 (although, personally, I'd put Jaime at 4 and Sandor at 5). But you put Bronn above Gregor and Brienne? I think he's incredibly underrated, but still.

10 should probably go to somebody like Ramsey (who was beating Ironborn without armor), Karl Tanner (who gave Jon a really, really good fight),

Arthur Dayne wasn't actually a good fighter. Speaking from a real life perspective.

@cregan_stark: Eh, agree to disagree, I hope Jon gets more feats, I'd really like to be able to place him higher.

@jedixman: I wouldn't agree with Ramsay, though I admit that was a decent feat, but Tanner's a good shout, that guy was far too cocky though, had a real chip on his shoulder, could've ended Jon quick. Yeah, I think Gregor would probably beat Bronn for a majority, but I think there are opponents Bronn would deal with better than Gregor would. He's also really fast, like in the Blackwater when he decimates 3 soldiers attacking him with blinding speed. After Dayne, I think he's a contender for fastest combat speed. Plus his willingness to fight dirty and the kukri is an x-factor to me. I just think he's pretty formidable. I do think he'd get the better of Brienne in a close one.

"Crown for a King." Lol. Was really gutting when he died, the only thing I knew going into the show was that Dany gets Dragons, so I wanted to see him and Dany be badass Dragonlords, that didn't turn out too well. Armourless, or perhaps even if he's not wearing his helmet... I think it would be close, really close.

I think most of them are sh*t from a real world perspective. For example, while feints and distractions are useful, half the time all Oberyn was doing was wearing himself out and showboating. This is true of many live-action fighters though. In reality, the more mundane choreography is usually more real world.

@rogueshadow: Jon's feats are more impressive in my opinions. Brienne's feats are all muddied and questionable.

Agree to disagree.

@rogueshadow: fair enough

I think Jon is the best fighter in the show atm after the battle of bastards where he went full beast mode I don't see anyone defeating him.

@lariend: *Cough* Arthur Dayne...*Cough*

Jaime is definitely a better fighter in his Prime. Jaime was basically the Arthur Dayne of his time, as Arthur Dayne and Barristan Selmy were the Aemon the Dragonknight of their time.

Jaime all rounds.

BTW, Jon doesn't belong in these kinds of battles.IIRC his feats are unimpressive .

• John Snow has the better certifiable feats and Jamie Lannister has the better street cred/Reputation.
• I dont know who wins per se(Both are good) but If i had to bet money id back Jon Snow due to his better perceivable and provable feats.

@jackiplier:

*cough* Arthur Dayne is dead in the show *cough*

Jamie does not have feats to back up his hype and streetcred. Like I said Jon has the best feats in the show atm.

Amazing Post

Jon Snow

Major Feats: Defeated countless Wildings

Defeated Qhorin Halfhand

Compared to Eddard Stark his supposed father

Weakness

Has spent years along the Wall

Has several mental limits created by his supposed bastard status

Very young

Jaime Lannister

Major Feats: Trained by the Sword of the Morning and Knighted by Ser Arthur Dayne

Has had the best training money can buy

Eddard Stark himself would not fight Jaime in open combat

Weakness

Narcissistic

Has a troublesome relationship with his sister

Victor: Jaime Lannister

While it disappoints me to admit this but Jaime two handed was a force. Trained by Arthur Dayne and provided everything by his father Tywin Jaime possessed amazing skill. Jon in his prime has been considered average at best compared very much to his "father" Ned Stark. Losing his hand was the major redemption and balancing factor for Jaime.

Jaime stomps.

Round 1- Composite - Jaime stomps

Round 2- Book Version - Jaime one shots

Round 3- TV Version - Jaime should win

Jaime stomps. So many people understimate the fact the Sword of the Morning Arthur Dayne knighted Jaime and trained him.

Jaime wins of course but I don't see him stomping Jon

@twentygoodmen: Jaime wins in two advances. It is a stomp lol

@jon5now: Yeah I don't I don't see it that way after all Jon has been through and accomplished but feel free to disagree and I don't feel like arguing any points either

@twentygoodmen: Yeah lol. I can see how you think Jon is accomplished he is more believable of a character but Jaime is pretty much the fourth greatest swordsman in GOT history in the books.

@jon5now: jaime is not the 4th greatest swordsman , but he is in the top 10 (bottom of it but still) :
daemon blackfire , aemon the dragonknight , arthur dayne , barristan selmy , ryam redwine , cregan stark , the greatheart and gwayne corbray
are all better than him if we are talking the greatest of all time .
jaime is only the best in the beggining of the books/show because arthur is dead and barristan is 60+ yo and the rest from the list above are long gone .

r1: jaime in a good fight
r2: jaime handily
r3: jon kills him

season 6/7 jon has the most real battle experience of all the characters and the most impressive feats ,
show jaime is nerfed to the point we only see him fighting ned to a draw (toying or not but eventually a draw) and lost his hand as a prisoner ,
killing 10 warriors of screen is not as impressive as jon killing like 15-20 soldiers on screen in BOTB and taking down ramsey with his bare hands ,
killing 2 walkers , styr , countless wildlings and wights etc .
season 1 jon would lost to season 1 jaime due to lack of experience , but season 6/7 jon is much superior to his s1 version , has a lot of experience ,
saw things most men would not believe to exist and prevail and he also learned how to fight dirty .

Why is the show even relevant to this question? It's essentially just poorly written fan fiction, it's not canon. And according to the real story, it's fairly clear that Jaime would almost certainly prevail against anybody in the world, he's likely the most skilled fighter on Planetos. Jon's advantage would be that he's a bit younger and has a valyrian steel sword, but your condition was both at there peak, and if they both had regular steel or both valyrian swords, than it would be entertaining, but little doubt as to who the Victor would be. I can;t think of any reason to believe that Jon would triumph. Please i'd like to here anything that logically suggest Join would stand any semblance of a chance.

@thepunisherguns: Jaime has much, much more experience, Jon has hardly any by comparison, he fought a few wildlings, at Castle Black, and that's it. Jaime fought 2 battles against a real army in Riverlands, he fought against the Kingswood brotherhood, even facing off against the smiling night at 16, saved Crakehall, and was knighted by Arthur Dane, he fought in the battle of Pike, cutting down Iron Born left and right, did the same against the northerners a Whispering wood, fought Brienne to a standstill after being in chains for a year, starved, sick, out of shape, practice, weak, mal-nourished and fettered, and Brienne is one of the best fighters in all Westeros, undefeated so far, actually winning all of her engagements except against a seriously handicapped Jaime Lannister, and he actually wounded her, and that likely could have killed her, it did get infected. So Jaime was actually arguably the victor, essentially getting the better of her.

@zr0c00l:

Jaime never fought Eddard, that was a show invention; fan fiction. And it's not rumors about Jaime's prowess, he fought against the Kingswood brotherhood, was knighted personally by Arthur Dayne and made the youngest kings guard ever he was so gifted. He fought at the breach of pike, killing many Iron borne. He fought a battle against the River lords, and then another battle at Whispering wood, cutting down many a northmen, members of the King in the North's personal body guard. Ya he didn't win every single tourney, no one has, and it was jousting not a real sword fight, and it's also possible there was some funny business with Jorah's performance. It also comes without saying that many other knights who are more skilled than Jorah were also beaten, and Jaime has won many tourneys before. So your assessment is way off base, you are unfamiliar and flippant with the source material. Also to boot, GRRM said as much that Jaime is among the very best if not the best, so much for "rumor" of his skill.

GRRM said as much that Jaime is among the very best if not the best, so much for "rumor" of his skill.

Jaime with both hands and at peak? Well rip Jon.

Lol, the amount of show-jaime wank is pretty funny on this site. Every jaime feat (and there aren't many) are coupled with claims of "he wasn't even trying" or "of course, he was nerfed and that's why he lost". Every jon feat is coupled with "well we can't take that seriously" or "he just go lucky". Hilarious wanking.

Anyway, OT:

- toss-up for round 1, 50/50 I'd say

- rd 2 goes to jaime handily

- rd 3 goes to Jon handily.

Jon's show feats are significantly superior to jaimes. You can all cry and whine about why jaime lost to x person (there were a lot of losses) or why he didn't beat x person. Or how he wasn't trying against x person. But Jon has concrete feats that put him significantly above jaime. Oh jaime killed 10 men? How many did Jon kill in the battle of the bastards? 20? 30? 40? He also killed a white walker, and literally 1 v 1'd the night king lol. Show Jon wrecks.

@kingslayer88: lol, you ask why the show is relevant in a thread that pits them against eachother as show versions? Are you handicapped? Lol it's relevant because OP asked who would win if it were show versions for round 3. That's why it's relevant.

I'd like Jon to win, and I hate Jaime but he was below Robb who avoided fighting Jaime.