@cadencev2:
How can you just defend from Psy attack?! I cannot walk up to Xavier and prepare my mind. That is the lamest excuse yet. Espiciialy against 2 Xavier level telepaths. Good luck with that.
Call it lame if you will but it's pretty standard knowledge that all the X-Men are trained in recognizing and defending against mental attacks, currently in Wolverine And The X-Men comic Rachel Grey teaches the Psychic defense class. This isn't some new addition either as far back as 1980 in the Days Of Future Past arc this is known. Kate Pryde (with help from Rachel Grey) broke into Kitty Pryde's mind (who had just joined the X-Men the day before or sp) because she didn't know how to defend from telepathic attacks.
Stated plain as day on pannel implying that in the future Kitty would know how to defend from psychic attacks. Now let's fast forward a few years and go to All New X-Men and revisit Kitty Pryde.
Stating she has training against Psychics, in another issue she states it was Jean herself who trained her. So long story short non telepaths can defend from telepathic attacks and its beyond foolish to assume that Psylocke who spent years with the X-Men and is a psychic herself doesn't know a few things about mental defense. And you also conveniently glossed over where I said she constructs Psychic shields in his head; much like was done for Wolverine.
Also Rogue has a portion of Xavier's telepathy she is not as strong as him so please stop reffering to having two Xavier level telepaths; you have 1 and Rogue with part of Xavier's telepathic power.
Lastly here are some scans of Rachel teaching the class I talked about earlier.
No, all you shown was Invisibility, that is it. Nice try.
Did you bother to look at the third scan I showed? The one where she's not facing Wolverine (so there is no need for invisibility) and the text says that she "masks any hint of her presence" Do you honestly think she could sneak up on Wolverine without masking herself to his hyper senses? He can hear heart beats from a dozen feet away through a closed dooe, can use his smell like a sense of Radar etc. Oh and btw she turns herself invisible with her TK; those are two different showings with two different sets of powers.
This post is a fail as you failed to adress any of my points at all of Senses, Stronger Telepaths, and a Midnighter Battle CPU.
Except I adressed all of that in the 10th post of this thread; seriously go back and read it.
All not true.Wolverine Phaser is nothing more than a opening device with the self destruct. Then you have Ultimate Wolverine, 3 Decoys that look, act, smell, and sound the same as Ultimate wolverine converging on yours.
Step one: Phaser TK to Wolverine for initial damage. Phaser on Overload can destroy a Quadrant of a Star Ship. The damage to Wolverine will be nasty.
Step two: Ultimate Wolverine and 3 Decoys on the now damaged Wolverine.
Instant win when Xavier and Rogue show up after easy beating Kakashi and Psylock.
Ultimate Wolverine is the top 3 of Ultimate Marvel Martial Artist period. He has fought beings greater than 616 Wolverine has and won.
Dude you want to play the scan dump game? Fine let's do it. Before I do let me state I generally don't like doing this in a debate as it seems like more fluff than substance and little more than a d*** measuring contest. But let it not be said I haven't shown what my team can do.
Can move fast enough to leave after images
Fights thousands of ninja and wins.
Fights a who's who of his villians (Sabetooth, Silver Samurai, Mystique, Daken just to name a few) at the same time and wins (scans are reversed)
Takes on Sabertooth, Weapon III, Omega Red and Omega White
Takes down Kid Gladiator with pressure points
Takes down Shang Chi in h2h
Everything moves in slow motion during combat
Tanks Ragnorok's Lightning and remains concious (in reverse order)
Can move so fast he can disappear from sight.
Great skill showing (scans are reversed).
Regenerates from just his skeleton (scans are backwards)
More High level regen.
I'm tired of posting scans so here is a list of people Wolverine has faced at one point or another and had either out right won or had good showings against in 616 Continuity:
Abomination, Absorbing Man, Angel, Beast, Black Panther, Blade, Cable, Captain America, Colossus Crossbones, Cyclops, Daredevil, Deadpool, Deathstrike, Elektra, Exodus, Gambit, Ghost Rider, Havok, Hercules, Hulk (Grey, Savage and WWH), Human Torch, Iceman, Ogun, Omega Red, Magneto, Mister X Namor, Nightcrawler, Punisher, Psylocke, Sabertooth, Sauron, Shang-Chi, Silver Samurai, Spider Woman,The Thing, Winter Soldier, X-23
And that's not even a complete list; 616 Wolverine has hundreds, probably thousands of showings that give him the edge over 1610 Wolverine just in the sheer verity of foes he's faced and all the years of combat experience he's racked up.
And as for your overload Phaser bomb strategy:
Your either going to have to throw it which Kakashi can easily Kamui it out of the air or run it up and he can poof it out of your LMD's hand or Psylocke can blast it apart with TK. Phasers give off a very distinct noise when they're set to overload and my team isn't going to let your plan come to fruition
Let's move onto Psylocke :
Telepathy
Using her TP to reach into a dying Gateway's mind and uses his powers to teleport all of X-Force.
Mind scanning an entire town and penetrating Juggs helmet with her TP
The Shadow King Fight
In case you didn't read it earlier overpowering the Shadow King is something 616 Xavier hasn't been able to do. Psylocke did it and could have killed him but refrained. Now a little background; The first time Betsy fought the Shadow King he was controlling all of 616 Earth and even still he was whomping her; she had to sacrafice her TP to contain him; she won by his over extending. Now in that feat she does that while he's not controlling anyone; in fact she outmuscles him. That feat alone places her TP at 616 Xavier level which is higher than 1610 Xavier level. And fyi he didn't break her psyche (she induced amnesia and used it to escape the astral plane).
Telekinesis
I've already shown molecular level TK from Psylocke (vibrating her molocules to turn invisible so let's get into her other feats.
Raw TK power
Even taking that half of that feat was Rachel that is more telekinetic power than 1610 Xavier has shown and no that's not a Phoenix enhanced Rachel, that's her base level TK that's from Uncanny X-Men 471 so it's long after the Phoenix left Rachel and before she was empowered by the Phoenix Echo. The tattoo manifests on her face anytime she used her powers back then.
Uses her TK to break through a planetary level shield. Happened back when she was with the Exiles (New Exiles 4) and she only had TK.
And both of those TK feats were pre power up so Betsy is stronger now than she was in either of those showings.
Hand To Hand
Takes it to AOA Sabertooth and Morph
Trains with and beats Ogun; obtains a lifetime of fighting skill (on top of all the other training she's received)
Beats Slaymaster
Beats Hand Ninja
Beats Yukiko
Fights Wolverine (one of their many skirmishes)
Like Wolverine she has a ton of h2h showings and I could be on here posting her fights all day but I think that's enough to get my point across.
In your scans you've shown nothing Psylocke couldn't do prior to her power up and in some cases you've actually shown less than she could do.
So again no Psylocke is not the weaker telepath or telekintetic, in fact considering that Rogue only has a portion of Xavier's TP/ TK they could combine their respective TK and she'd still overpower them. And to reiterate what I said earlier: TP, TK or h2h Betsy can outmatch 1610 Xavier in any of them.
TK she crushes his head or explodes his brain
TP she breaks his mind and takes of his head
H2H she beats him down and ends up taking his head off with her katana (the metal one).
Moving onto Rogue.
This is silly as all get out. Kakashi is a no body to Rogue here who can easy win with a Mind Rape and TK BFR!
Well getting over that BFR isn't a win condition let's talk about the telepathy for a second.
1. Kakashi now has psychic shields and knowledge on how to fend off a telepathic attack.
2. Rogue only has a portion of Xavier's telepathy and TK.
3. Her brains resources are also divided by the Battle Computer.
Those three facts mean your mindrape is not an autowin here as neither is the TK. Rogue won't be able to preform to the level of Xavier as she doesn't have that same level of power.
Literally all Kakashi has to do is look at Rogue and this fight is over; hypnotism (what his Sharingan does) bypasses psionic defenses (like Fantomex's misdirection) because it's not a psionic attack.
He genjutsu's her and then it's a simple matter of him taking her head off for the win (which he'll have no problem doing with no morals). And before you come in with LOL BATTLE COMPUTER I WIN!!!
Let me (again) say:
Rogue likely hasn't mastered the device to Midnighter's level
Of the millions of probable attack scenarios the chance of her guessing correctly is almost nil, and if you want to say she's keeping her eyes closed; good luck using your TK or countering any of the other moves he can preform.
Like what?
By summoning a pair of shadow clones he'll effectively nuetralize a large portion of Rogue's game.
But you can mind scan the other two and find out which is the real one right?
All the clone has to think is 'I'm the real one' 'I cast the jutsu' and Rogue won't know which one it is, not to mention she'll have to mind scan them one at a time (and break through their psychic defenses) as psychic attacks can only effect one opponent at a time; she'll have a 1/3 shot of guessing correctly off the bat.
Not to mention any chance of Rogues's battle computer working correctly are tanked; three Kakashi's attacking in perfect concert...after all who better to know how Kakashi will attack than Kakashi? I don't see her being able to predict and counter the three Kakashi's
Meanwhile he's free to preform Raikiri
Pull her underground with the headhunter technique
Use his Lightning Chain jutsu
Lightning Beast
Or use a mix and match of those (and the two dozen or so other) jutsu he has most of which should be able to put Rogue down long enough for the other two (original or clone to move in for the kill. In addition he has Kunai which he can charge with Raikiri and use Kamui to move them across the field to catch her off guard.
And since clones can utalize techniques as well; Body Flicker and Substituion are viable options for evasion and increasing movement speed.
As for the TK Kakashi has faced an opponent with TK much greater than anything allowed in this tournament; Pein who through gravity manipulation was capable of flattening an entire city. He tried to use his abilities against Kakashi and Kakashi was able to nearly kill him and he had six other bodies protecting him.
Kakashi can take Rogue down.
I am ready for votes after this, I been addressing the same points over again while no counters been made to mine
What points have you made that I haven't adressed? The gist of your argument thus far has been based on two points:
1. LOL I GOT THE BATTLE COMPUTER, BATTLE COMPUTER EQUALS SUPER HAX LOL I GET AUTOWIN!!!
2. My Psychics are stronger than yours! I can mindrape for the AUTOWIN!!!
(Both of which are incorrect)
(Three points if you want to count your attempts to disregard my characters completely as any kind of a credible threat.)
Of your two main points I've addressed both points multiple times. You on the other hand have failed to address the three or four times I've pointed out various ways that the CPU won't be the autowin devices you think it'll be. Or the information I brought up about Psylocke's level of TP.
TBH coming into this debate I was looking forward to a great debate with one of Comicvine's best. You and I have had a few debates before but we've have never finished any of them due to various circumstances. I've seen you at your best Cadence and I have a lot of respect for your skills and knowledge. I have to say I'm a bit disappointed in the effort you've put forth and the seeming disregard you've shown in this debate. And while I doubt that means much of anything to you I felt I needed to get it off my chest.
With all that said no hard feelings and if you want to go to votes that's fine, I'm satisfied with what I've posted.
@jokergeist
We're ready for votes.
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