JEAN GREY vs SUPERMAN

@TheThe: LOL, got it from a different forum.

@Deathcry said:

Superman throws her into the sun.

+1

ok itsl ike this i say regular jean without phoenix force can control matter, can manifest a psionic fire bird . hay what aboutthe time when rahcel and cylops where having a conversation right after the grey family attack . it took between seconds and they were talking a full conversation. plus again superman is quick i admit but he doesnt know jean like i said before . he doesnt know what she can do and jean doesnt know what he can do. and jean can release a disntigration wave there are times wen ean can make a thought in a moments notice like.. but i do admit superman has a higher chance of winning on this point. unless jean suddenly scans supermans brain before he could even go super fast and creates kryptonight aroundh im. but hif this was phoenix force pretending to be jean . or jean with phoenix force id sqay she is most likely to win. but its not so i say the ods are more on supermans favor.

the speed of thought is one-ten thousandth of a second. Superman has demonstrated he keep up with the Flash to a degree. Superman in a speed blitz.

@KalTheHokage_2007 said:

the speed of thought is one-ten thousandth of a second. Superman has demonstrated he keep up with the Flash to a degree. Superman in a speed blitz.

telepaths in the marvel universe seem to be able to think a little faster then that.

and even ifi m wrong . what wil make superman go speed blits all out of the blue on her. i mean he is bound to underestimate her.and jean can use that time to shut his brain down. or put of a disitiigration wave feld around her like she did in the movie.

@hyperbeing said:

and even ifi m wrong . what wil make superman go speed blits all out of the blue on her. i mean he is bound to underestimate her.and jean can use that time to shut his brain down. or put of a disitiigration wave feld around her like she did in the movie.

Now you're making assumptions. Battles in the vine don't work that way. Both characters are at the best of their abilities and ready to battle one another if I am not mistaken. When the proverbial siren goes off, both of them will engage in combat; Superman has many more ways to disable Jean than she does him, his crippling speed is a factor in many of his victories; also, movie feats don't count cause in that case Superman flies around the world and turns back time.

first i like to say im glad your continuing but now lets get to bussness. superman doesnt know what jean grey can do and jean doesnt know what superman can do. and also its not all all the powwer and abilities it also on stratagy wich neither of them have really when bloodlusted.jean is an omega level mutant capapble of alot of powerr. she can effectthe phyical world as well as the mental world. i mean what says she will even be there phyiscaly she could just be attacking everyone on site with her astral projection while superman can be there phyicaly.. plus even if superman kills her body it doesnt mean she is dead. i mean there are times telepaths are capable of living beyond there phyical death like shadow king. anywayeven if she is there phyicaly she is capable of creating a sheild around herself . long before she even runs into superman. plus when superman is bloodlusted he tends to kill ppl slowly. as a result i doubt he will even use his sueper speed blits.and also jean couldve sensed him long beofre she ran into him. but i will admit regular jean grey doesnt have much of a chance agaisnt superman in a fdirect fight . and also if jwean grey does get a chance she can disintigrate him or put him in an aluusion world or even wiped him mind clean just long enough for her to dill the killing blow. but if this was phoenix vs superman this would be alot mroe intresting . cause she cant die. oh and also jean grey if superman does hit her and is going slowlyf for her to feal pai nshe could just heal her own injuries much like cable did.

Contrary to popular belief, Superman wins, on the grounds that he can move faster than Jean can think, and therefore mindrape.

@hyperbeing said:

first i like to say im glad your continuing but now lets get to bussness. superman doesnt know what jean grey can do and jean doesnt know what superman can do. and also its not all all the powwer and abilities it also on stratagy wich neither of them have really when bloodlusted.jean is an omega level mutant capapble of alot of powerr. she can effectthe phyical world as well as the mental world. i mean what says she will even be there phyiscaly she could just be attacking everyone on site with her astral projection while superman can be there phyicaly.. plus even if superman kills her body it doesnt mean she is dead. i mean there are times telepaths are capable of living beyond there phyical death like shadow king. anywayeven if she is there phyicaly she is capable of creating a sheild around herself . long before she even runs into superman. plus when superman is bloodlusted he tends to kill ppl slowly. as a result i doubt he will even use his sueper speed blits.and also jean couldve sensed him long beofre she ran into him. but i will admit regular jean grey doesnt have much of a chance agaisnt superman in a fdirect fight . and also if jwean grey does get a chance she can disintigrate him or put him in an aluusion world or even wiped him mind clean just long enough for her to dill the killing blow. but if this was phoenix vs superman this would be alot mroe intresting . cause she cant die. oh and also jean grey if superman does hit her and is going slowlyf for her to feal pai nshe could just heal her own injuries much like cable did.

did you guys forget i mentioned stratagy . if superman just leaves a small point for jean to think its all over. and also he is bloodlusted that means he will kill everyone he meets slowly and painfully.

@hyperbeing said:

first i like to say im glad your continuing but now lets get to bussness. superman doesnt know what jean grey can do and jean doesnt know what superman can do. and also its not all all the powwer and abilities it also on stratagy wich neither of them have really when bloodlusted.jean is an omega level mutant capapble of alot of powerr. she can effectthe phyical world as well as the mental world. i mean what says she will even be there phyiscaly she could just be attacking everyone on site with her astral projection while superman can be there phyicaly.. plus even if superman kills her body it doesnt mean she is dead. i mean there are times telepaths are capable of living beyond there phyical death like shadow king. anywayeven if she is there phyicaly she is capable of creating a sheild around herself . long before she even runs into superman. plus when superman is bloodlusted he tends to kill ppl slowly. as a result i doubt he will even use his sueper speed blits.and also jean couldve sensed him long beofre she ran into him. but i will admit regular jean grey doesnt have much of a chance agaisnt superman in a fdirect fight . and also if jwean grey does get a chance she can disintigrate him or put him in an aluusion world or even wiped him mind clean just long enough for her to dill the killing blow. but if this was phoenix vs superman this would be alot mroe intresting . cause she cant die. oh and also jean grey if superman does hit her and is going slowlyf for her to feal pai nshe could just heal her own injuries much like cable did.

if it were up to strategy the OP would mention prep time, I don't believe it does. Since this is normal Jean grey and not Phoenix, there is nothing she can do to hold a lightspeed moving Superman who will lobotomize her with his heat vision like he did to Manchester Black...sorta. Jean cannot react at the speed of light, Superman can, all her shields, bells and whistles will definitely work on Supes if she has time to think...but she won't...cause she's getting mowed down.

superman is going to take his time with her and it just said that they do not know each other show how can they prepare jean has prepared with a powerful sheild and is liking contently releasing didtingtigration waves. and if superman does try to lobotomise her she can block it with her tk.

@hyperbeing said:

first i like to say im glad your continuing but now lets get to bussness. superman doesnt know what jean grey can do and jean doesnt know what superman can do. and also its not all all the powwer and abilities it also on stratagy wich neither of them have really when bloodlusted.jean is an omega level mutant capapble of alot of powerr. she can effectthe phyical world as well as the mental world. i mean what says she will even be there phyiscaly she could just be attacking everyone on site with her astral projection while superman can be there phyicaly.. plus even if superman kills her body it doesnt mean she is dead. i mean there are times telepaths are capable of living beyond there phyical death like shadow king. anywayeven if she is there phyicaly she is capable of creating a sheild around herself . long before she even runs into superman. plus when superman is bloodlusted he tends to kill ppl slowly. as a result i doubt he will even use his sueper speed blits.and also jean couldve sensed him long beofre she ran into him. but i will admit regular jean grey doesnt have much of a chance agaisnt superman in a fdirect fight . and also if jwean grey does get a chance she can disintigrate him or put him in an aluusion world or even wiped him mind clean just long enough for her to dill the killing blow. but if this was phoenix vs superman this would be alot mroe intresting . cause she cant die. oh and also jean grey if superman does hit her and is going slowlyf for her to feal pai nshe could just heal her own injuries much like cable did.

You probably want to do yourself a favor and break up your text to make it easier to read.

You are correct when you say that Jean Grey is powerful, however, you also misunderstand what bloodlust means in this context. In the context of vine battles it means that the characters will kill their opponent in the quickest manner they can without pulling any punches.

The end result is that somewhere in the nanoseconds after the fight starts, Jean's brain is replaced with Superman's fist and the previously impressive and good-looking omega level mutant turns into yet another corpse. There is literally nothing Jean can do to change this course of events.

In short, Superman wins.

if jean is bloodlusted she would surrond herself in a disintigration feild wave.and all she needs is a small opening . i but i guess that up to supes wether or not he wants to kill her in seconds or not.

i mean if he ettempts to kill her slowly she will by that time shut his morot functions and make him watch her heal and then she will disintigrate him.

@hyperbeing said:

if jean is bloodlusted she would surrond herself in a disintigration feild wave.and all she needs is a small opening . i but i guess that up to supes wether or not he wants to kill her in seconds or not.

i mean if he ettempts to kill her slowly she will by that time shut his morot functions and make him watch her heal and then she will disintigrate him.

There is no question here. Superman will kill her in the quickest manner possible. If they were not bloodlusted then things may end differently, but in this fight they are.

but ill say it like this . superman in this case will likely win as long as he kills her quicly. but if he makes the slightest mistak on killing her slowly.

she will by then be able to do almost anyhting in him. but im sure when she is blood lusted she is willing to put a feild around her that distigrates what comes close. and if she is blood lusted and doesnt want to leave her home she can astral project and run into superman. but i do agree supwerman wins in most scnerios with jean winning some . but if it were phoenix jean i wonder how it wil lturn out.

@hyperbeing said:

but ill say it like this . superman in this case will likely win as long as he kills her quicly. but if he makes the slightest mistak on killing her slowly.

she will by then be able to do almost anyhting in him. but im sure when she is blood lusted she is willing to put a feild around her that distigrates what comes close. and if she is blood lusted and doesnt want to leave her home she can astral project and run into superman. but i do agree supwerman wins in most scnerios with jean winning some . but if it were phoenix jean i wonder how it wil lturn out.

If she had the Phoenix Force, Superman clearly wouldn't have a snowball's chance.

yeah . .

anyway superman wins most rounds and jean wins a very small amount of rounds.

There is only one round...and Superman wins it. I agree with you all, Phoenix would destroy Superman.

i know there one round i meant scenerios.

Does Superman not have Blocks placed on him by others to prevent telepathy? If he does and they wouldn't hold out for long he can still blitz in the time they give him.

Normal Superman doesn't have a chance against phoenix. Pre Crisis Supes can beat Phoenix but gets beaten by white crown Phoenix. If its Supes Prime one million or thought robot then Phoenix and white crown Pheonix gets godstomped at the same time.

this is not fair jean has to have the phoenix against superman he is invincible !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! why do you hate jean grey!

Erm I know this an old thread, but Superman still has to think guys (Jean will think faster than Superman.) Then move at light speed, and there with the little window Jean has while he is thinking bam RAPE. She holds him with TP and Rips his body apart molecule by molecule or just mind rape. :D I am a jean grey fan obviously, but what ever.

Jean Grey ftw, his supposed speed didn't help him against Gorilla Grodd or Manchester Black

@dondave said:

Jean Grey ftw, his supposed speed didn't help him against Gorilla Grodd or Manchester Black

When has he ever been bloodlusted against them?! This is not in character Superman, its bloodlusted, as in do anything to kill his opponent Superman. The speed of thought is like slow motion compared to the speed of light. This is pretty much pure spite.

And btw, in Ending Battle, when Supes fantasized about cutting loose on Black, there was nothing Manchester could do (Manchester knew this too, btw).

People confuse Superman in character CONSTANTLY holding back with Superman being weak. Shoot, Lex implied in Superman #15 that if Superman stopped holding back he'd be on par with H'El.

Superman in a good fight wins.

So nobody ever posted scans of Jean reacting to something even remotely close to the speed of light? Not one person? I'm disappointed. For now, my money is on Superman. This is ridiculous.

Supes.

Okay, I know this battle has been going on for a while and though an interesting read lets take note. For those of you who say that superman will speed blitz her BEFORE she reacts, you obviously are reaching. Superman can FLY and MOVE faster than light speed, he CANNOT react NOR think at that speed by ANY MEANS AT ALL. This is the reason WW can go toe to toe with him, her reaction time is faster because she is a warrior born. Superman was able to reach Flash's speed AFTER he THOUGHT about moving that fast. Superman is fast AFTER his brain says, "hey supes you really need to get over there quick". THEN he is faster than most. Secondly I think everyone forgets that Jean was mostly a telekinetic first, NOT a telepath. So now you have to break it down to two thoughts, superman thinks "I need to kill her, speedblitz" and Jean thinks "I need to protect my vulnerable self, shield", BAM. Who wins, DC's strongest hero or Marvels most powerful telekinetic?? Can he get through her shield AND KO her before she thinks Mind rape. Minor telepaths have given supes trouble before so what makes you think one of the most powerful telepaths will have ANY issues with it whatsoever. Supes TP resistance comes from his alien nature, its hard to instantly go into an aliens mind you are unfamiliar with and gain control, HOWEVER, Jean wrestles with aliens all the time, she is way more familiar with it than most telepaths. I am not saying Jean wins but I am saying it is definitely NOT as easy as most are saying.

if he wasn't blood lusted jean would probly win but since he is he kills her.

SPITE

I understand what everyone is saying, but OP didn't state Superman has foreknowledge of Jean right? So then (even if he is bloodlusted) he wouldn't know "uh oh she's a telepath, I should speed blitz her before she can think." Granted the reverse is true, but in comics as in real life, few people just immediately attack another person out of the blue without talking first.

This fight just depends on who decides to strike first.

I don't believe how many people are resorting to the speedblitz argument here. Its just a crutch used by fanboys when they can't think of any other means to win. Jean takes superman any day. Speedblitzing is just an inconsistency that shouldn't exist in any comics period. Jean FTW!!!

Superman doesn't speed blitz unless he realize he is in danger. Jean FTW

Superman has often displayed decent resistance to mind control within his own book. Couldn't hold her off indefinitely but a second or 2 is all he really needs.

Not against an omega level telepath. And she could easily keep superman out with her telekinetic shields.

The term speed blitz gets used too much in Dc, the only persistent characters that speed blitz are the Flash type character, e.g. Wally west, zoom, Barry Allen etc.

Superman struggles to keep up with Flash. In fact the Flash was running effortlessly, and both Wally and Superman struggles to grab him. Superman does have the potential to speed blitz, but it is not shown in comics enough, people who say Superman speed blitz in a thread means they don't know what else to say to back it up. While Superman has the potential to speed blitz or faze through attacks, it is not on the level of Flash.

As to the fight, Superman has been able to resist telepathy, and so it comes down to can Superman resist the telepathy of Jean Grey; 4.5/10, she is a very powerful telepath, it depends who is writing Superman.

My sentiments exactly. how would you respond to obvious dc fanboys in this thread: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/magneto-iceman-thor-vs-superman-wonderwoman-aquama-1537571/?page=4

Omega level is an almost meaningless title that just means no cap on potential and has been applied to most of the famous telepaths, Emma, Kid Omega, Psylocke. There have been countless occasions where Jean has struggled to get through pysch defenses because X-men writers need to hand it out like candy to stop telepaths auto-winning.

Jeans non-phoenix shields are simply not good enough and using your TK takes focus away from your TP and vice-versa.

Not really. Jean has countless feats of using tp and tk simultaneously.

And Omega level is far from being a meaningless title. It shows how far their abilities can go and Jean's has gone very far. Superman's mind control feats are irrelevant as Tp is not equal to mind control. Any other actual tp resistance feats that he has?

@kingant27: what are you talking about? Superman speed blitzes plenty of people, and has shown he has the capacity to do it on so many times. Comparing him to Flashes is a moot point, as most people are slower than them anyways. Saying he has a hard time catching flash, so he can't blitz Jean is completely ridiculous, which is what you seem to be arguing.

If you'r saying, "He doesn't do it enough" then that's just false. He does it on many, many occasions in comics. He does it more often than many of the alternative arguments for this, i.e. super-labotomy via heat vision.

This is morals off, so he's every bit justified in doing to her what he did to the elite or wonder woman or batman. He just goes straight for the kill.

^IMO not enough, he may do it sometimes when flying, but not running enough. Besides Jean Grey is an extremely powerful telepath, so much so that she was said to be the most powerful avatar of the Phoenix, and bonded with it, yes I know, no Phoenix force is involved, but even before she had the Phoenix force, she was still an extremely powerful telepath, almost rivalling Professor Xavier IMO. It depends if people believe if Superman can resist telepathy.

His speed will play only small in this fight as it depends if you think Superman can get to jean Grey before she can use her telepathy.

@hyperbertha:

Not really. Jean has countless feats of using tp and tk simultaneously.

I never said that she couldn't but they pull from the same mental resource and using TK does tax that.

And Omega level is far from being a meaningless title. It shows how far their abilities can go and Jean's has gone very far. Superman's mind control feats are irrelevant as Tp is not equal to mind control. Any other actual tp resistance feats that he has?

Meaningless in the comics, no, on the vine yes, there are countless characters beside omega mutants with potential for growth but all that matters is the level they reached. Mental blocks against Manchester Black, and resisting a telepath strong enough to possess a city long enough to fire himself like a missile at the telepath.

Superman slaughterhouse.

Clark decapitates her with his hand

Come on Jean, you can't die on Wolverine again.

Wolverine and Cyclops after the fight.

um Jean has reached a level that rivals Xavier himself. Meaningless in the comics? What are you even talking about? Superman hasn't fought anyone telepathically on Jean's level.

Jean Grey on her own is weak compared to Supes. He just moves too fast for her TK to have any effect.