Jean Grey vs Stargirl

vs

Rules

• Both bloodlusted
• Pre-52 for Stargirl
• No Phoenix for Jean, just standard/classic version
• Win by KO or death

Who wins?

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh, I'm so sorry Courtney.... Jean :(

Jean thinks blood clot, and Stargirl dies from a massive stroke.

Jean Grey.

Jean drops her with telepathy.

@beatboks1 You might be interested in this one.

It seems to me that Jean is ad a distinct disadvantage given that one of the qualities of the star rod is that it protects from mental control/attack. Courtney was the only JSAer not affected whe the team have succumbed to tp and mental control on several occasions. In stars and stripes she was also protected by the CCB when her entire school was mind controlled.

That leaves Jean limited to a TK attack

goes either way

couldn't Jean just use her TK to separate stargirl from her rod?

Jean. Tk and Tp is a deadly combo

@beatboks1: juggernauts and Magentos helmet also renders the user Immune however that didn't stop Jean, TP immunity is something she has regularly overcome

Are there scans of that? Was she at normal levels or amped?

Juggs was standard levels and it happened on two occasion

Gallery

Can't locate the Magneto one at this time but she was amped once and did it easily with PF and one time during the classic Era without PF so sh's shown them levls without any amp just standard levels

@royal_warrior: some of the instances whennCourtney has shown immunity were when others with high levels of TP resistance have succumbed. Tp resistance not always equal.

@trixie the rod is attuned to her she can control it without touching it. She can also use it to create high level force fields. Jean can however givenher a fight with TK certainly

I do sorta agree but at the same time that's a NLF, Both MAgnetos and Juggernuaghts defences have been stated numerous times to be immune not highly resistant

Telepathic attacks are not limited to mind control, as telepathic bolts are not hindered by the will to resist being controlled whether that will is backed by the users own will power or artificial means. It has been stated on panel that the full force of Jeans telepathy can break through any shielding natural or artificial and was proved when she got through the natural "immunity" of Emma's diamond form three times, and the artificial (magic and science based) "immunity" of Juggernaut and Magneto.

Then there's some discrepancy there. If they've been stated to be immune, but in reality they're not immune at all, this makes me distrust any such "stated" immunity or resistance. In other words, we need TP resistance feats for Jugs rather than just claims to show whether the Jean Grey feat is impressive or not.

He was only stated to be "immune" because Xavier was regarded as the most powerful telepath on Earth and he set the standard for what was telepathically possible or impossible, until it was established that Jean was more powerful than him and was the actual most powerful telepath on Earth and did things he deemed impossible because he couldn't do them. This is why she proved what was once thought to be immunity was simply very high resistance. Psylocke was shown to mind blast him as well, but when she saw him again after regaining her full power from Revanche's death she could not enter his mind. Jean, however was able to do it again by linking him to a dying dog after her Marvel Girl feat proving that Psylocke's feat was probably a fluke but that Jean's feat when using her full power was consistent with Storm saying no shield could stand up to the full force of her telepathic power.

Interesting. I guess I'd have to see what telepaths Stargirl has been able to resist to know if she could block the TP attacks.

Another question is, can Jean block Stargirl's attacks? If this turns into a "who shoots first" type thing, the edge probably goes to Stargirl... who I believe has enhanced speed and reaction times. Do I remember this correctly @beatboks1?

Jean gray with ease

Jean was able to block on a full on blast from a bloodlusted Binary and has been able to telepathically pull a fighting Beast to the astral plane, have a conversation with him and enhance his power while no time passed on the physical plane, so that when he returned to his body he was still in mid fight without his opponent being able to take advantage of him being out of his body at the time. She has defeated Sabertooth twice before his initiated attack could reach her. She telepathically froze Sunfire's sister in mid flight on a path from Japan to the School. She has blocked multiple missiles, plasma, gun and laser blasts after they were fired. She has scanned the minds of hundreds of people at once to find an individual in what appeared to be instantly. So I would say she has the reaction to block an attack or even launch one of her own against a foe with enhanced speed and reaction time.

@willpayton: the CCB enhances courtney's physicals to a degree yes. Sbe gets enhanced strength,speed and healing from it. But at the same time Jean has fought characters of the physical levels of Courtney plenty of times. I wouldnt see it as that great an advantage. After all Courtney's speed increase and reactions are physical. The key to this battle is Jean uses Tk which is speed of thought the same way courtney controls the star rod and CCB (in the case of the CCB purely by instinct which the lower abilities of the rod are controlled by too).

The way I see it arguments can be made for both sides. There was already mention of Jean making Courtney stroke out with TK, courtney can do similar by overloading Jeans synapses the way she soloed the injustice society.

Really too close to call

Why with ease? I think beatboks1 has a point that it might go either way. What in your opinions makes it an easy win for Jean?

That's why I never post comments unless I make at least a simple google on both especially Stargirl.

This is not an easy win for Jean Grey barring Phoenix. Stargirl has a very high resistance to mental or telepathic attacks.

It could go either way actually. I'm still trying to learn more as of this moment.

Why would you bother asking those two for their opinion?

It´s Grey, not Gray

Oh yeah, sorry. I just got in the habbit at some point of writing it Gray.

Jean is by no means winning with ease

Jean. TP one-shot.

@willpayton: Cant jean grey mentally shut her down...

Maybe, the question is whether Stargirl's defenses against TP are enough to either stop it or at least block it long enough for her to win.

Jean might win. With ease is going too far though.

Based on what I know of Stargirl(cartoons and a few comic) she doesn't have what it takes to beat Jean even without the Phoenix. She may be able to block a couple of attacks but she isn't going to last long against the most powerful telepath on Marvel Earth and a character that uses Telekinesis on a molecular level.

If her resistance is not higher than alleged immunity that gave Xavier trouble for years (Juggernaut) she is not stopping a bloodlusted Jean Grey from tearing her mind apart, Phoenix or not. Jean has very few telepathic feats as Phoenix anyway when to compared to her entire character history as a telepath. Her feats of getting through "immunity" have been due to her mutant power. Phoenix imagery does not mean Phoenix Force when Jean is concerned she has been using the image of the Phoenix as a symbol of her not holding back since after OZT. In an instant Jean Grey navigated through the stolen souls/minds absorbed by MeMe and killed him to free them, by shutting his mind off, and she wasn't even bloodlusted. If Stargirl's resistance is mostly to being mind controlled then I will remind you that telepathic attacks are not limited to mind control, psi blasts can destroy minds and kill people instantly regardless of their ability to resist being mind controlled, they can also include dragging your target to the astral plane. In this thread it was mentioned that Stargirl could fry Jean's synapses because she did it before, but if that is not a go to tactic of hers the likelihood of her doing it before a telepath uses telepathy the way they normally use it is low. Jean is not known for using her telepathy in a fight to mind control people anyway she is more likely to mind blast or turn a mind off.

Jean

During an ark in Justice Society Obsidian was completely controlling all of Milwaukee. He was also controlling Dr Fate (who has feats of resisting TPer MMH has trouble with) and Jay Garrick (who like all Flashs is immune to TP due to his thoughts being faster. Courtney was completely unaffected. When she extended the energy of her Staff over Hournam he was freed from control. Courntneystaff and CCB are powered by the power cosmic (the exact same power cosmic as Surfer confirmed in their crossover). She has also resisted Ultra Humanity who defeated Brainwave in TP and both BW and Ultra are above MMH in TP who is generally referred to ad Xavier's closest equal in TP at DC.

I dont know if she is immune to jean but her resistance feats are above those who have succumbed to her if only by a bit.