Well, his magic at times has been shown to affect tech.
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1-2) Jams the lights throughout New York.
3) Jams Spawn's weapons.
He also remain invisible to cameras and other sensors of military installations. In the end I side with Violator anyway. BFR IM into the Black. Or possess IM who never shown defense vs magic like that.
@sirfizzwhizz: Before I answer that answer me this: What part of my comment indicates that I said Iron-man is winning this? All I said is his force field can tank magical attacks. Jesus...
@sirfizzwhizz: Before I answer that answer me this: What part of my comment indicates that I said Iron-man is winning this? All I said is his force field can tank magical attacks. Jesus...
Cause I know how IM supporters can get. As bad as myself with Ultimate characters. Thats bad.
@sirfizzwhizz: I don't know how bad you are with Ultimate characters. I saw only two of your arguments using those and it was ok to me. Also what Iron-man supporters? You mean Noone? There are like two other Iron-man supporters who only say Iron-man wins only because they are not aware of charaters capabilities. Not I'm gonna troll over Hulk being overrated because two guys are overrating him even tho he is underrated most of the time. So again, what Iron-man supporters?
@sirfizzwhizz: I don't know how bad you are with Ultimate characters. I saw only two of your arguments using those and it was ok to me. Also what Iron-man supporters? You mean Noone? There are like two other Iron-man supporters who only say Iron-man wins only because they are not aware of charaters capabilities. Not I'm gonna troll over Hulk being overrated because two guys are overrating him even tho he is underrated most of the time. So again, what Iron-man supporters?
There was many IM suppoters in various IM vs Naruto, IM vs Invincible, IM vs Robot, IM vs Tech Jacket, and the first page of the IM vs Blue Beetle was pathetic.
Seems to be a lot of IM wank with references like "IM beat Phoenix" or "IM taken on Hyperion" and such comments lol. Just saying what I observe constantly in IM threads. NoOne being the cult leader of the nonsense.
@sirfizzwhizz: All those "many supporters" is just Noone. Yes Iron-man vs BB is very well pathetic because there is no argument for Iron-man beating BB in his current Armor. I saw only one guy using Iron-man Phoenix feat. That is not even PIS. It's CIS. Phoenix was pathetic in that story and overall she can be hurt by tech less impressive than Stark's as she is vulnerable without Jean because of her mental instability since she experienced human emotions making her insane.
Fact is, I don't agree with your statement. No offence but I saw you disagreeing with a lot of people based on the power level of characters they are introducing. I know you encountered Noone few times and you disagreed with him on various topics which does not give you the right to call character overrated. Well actually it does but from my experience on Vine and on Iron-man threads, he is underrated a lot. And not because I'm an Iron-man fan, it is because I read comics and I know the context and I know the consistency.
Hell, I encountered Hulk fans a lot on this site and I am not even a Hulk fan, I actually don't like the character that much yet I saw him being underrated on this site a lot, to the point I actually started to support him. Batman is my favorite DC character and he is overrated I admit it. Just saying so you don't think I'm bias or anything.
Either way, this is going off topic. I agree Violator beats Iron-man based on my limited knowledge on his character but I disagree with your statement on Iron-man being overrated (if that is actually what you were trying to say based on your complaining for Iron-man supporters).
but I disagree with your statement on Iron-man being overrated (if that is actually what you were trying to say based on your complaining for Iron-man supporters).
Oh, that is what i am saying indeed. But we can agree to disagree on that. I also think Hulk is overrated. ;)
@sirfizzwhizz: You think Hulk is overrated? Yeah I knew that based on some of your arguments. As I said, I think Hulk is underrated as well (even tho I'm not a Hulk fan). Funny right?
@sirfizzwhizz: You think Hulk is overrated? Yeah I knew that based on some of your arguments. As I said, I think Hulk is underrated as well (even tho I'm not a Hulk fan). Funny right?
@sirfizzwhizz: Because you expected this argument to be finished with harsh words? Also just because I'm not as aggressive as you does not mean I am optimistic. Sunshine and rainbows? Really man?
Good battle. In a straight up fight, Tony would take it 7.5/10 but if Violator plays his cards right (using a civilian clown army) he would be able to pull a win.
@sirfizzwhizz: if violator remans invisible to those things then tony shouldn't even be able to see him with his mask covering his face right? He'd have to have an open face shield to see him and such?
"He also remain invisible to cameras and other sensors of military installations. In the end I side with Violator anyway. BFR IM into the Black. Or possess IM who never shown defense vs magic like that."
So I asked if tony could even see him through his suit or would he need to keep his face shield open to sew violator with his own eyes
@sirfizzwhizz: I think violator has this don't get me wrong starks weapons ain't built like normal ones but he should be able to make most like rockets and such malfunction at least and if tony wants to see him he is gunna need that face shield open (and that ain't good lol) plus as you said possession and does he have any defense to telepathy? And on top of all of that. I don't think ironman can kill him even if violator stood their laughing at him in clown form. (Tony wouldn't know the specifics to do so and if he did probably wouldn't have the means)
IM still blitzes and decapites Violator's ugly head with his repulsor blade. Lack of speed feats and weak piercing durability aren't helping Vi here.
I never seen IM Blitz anyone without prior knowledge of a enemy somewhere, and flying to them en rout.
I also dont see why Comic Peak Human in speed Violator cannot possess IM off the bat well before Stark decides to out of character Speed Blitz and cut the head off. Since IM has zero feats vs possession. After all, IM has NO CLUE he needs to cut the head off at the start anyway.
But hey, who cares about all that. Lets try to find a way for IM to win while ignoring things like "Random Battle" and "In Character".
@caped_baldy: when has iron man speed blitzed decapitated an unknown foe, in character?
Violator takes this easily IMO. He's way to durable. Tony doesn't know to decapitate him nor will he get the chance to. Violator can stop all of tony arsenal with mind control.
IM still blitzes and decapites Violator's ugly head with his repulsor blade. Lack of speed feats and weak piercing durability aren't helping Vi here.
I never seen IM Blitz anyone without prior knowledge of a enemy somewhere, and flying to them en rout.
I also dont see why Comic Peak Human in speed Violator cannot possess IM off the bat well before Stark decides to out of character Speed Blitz and cut the head off. Since IM has zero feats vs possession. After all, IM has NO CLUE he needs to cut the head off at the start anyway.
But hey, who cares about all that. Lets try to find a way for IM to win while ignoring things like "Random Battle" and "In Character".
Let's forget the fact that Violator controlled tech in New York while he was amped by Spawn's power, the same goes for turning people into clowns. At standard levels, he has struggled to take on human minds, even inside them, twice lmao. Nevermind that, IM is still way too fast for him and can ragdoll him around without real problem(he has ragdolled Red Hulk around who has far better feats than Violator, meh). I'm pretty sure that IM tried to cut Grey Gargoyle head off after this one proved to be a big pain in the ass, so IMO he can try that here after noticing that his standard firepower doesn't put Vi down.
Let's forget the fact that Violator controlled tech in New York while he was amped by Spawn's power, the same goes for turning people into clowns.
Well, TBF, lets not forget Iron Man is in weaker armor than he normally has. Also jobs like a mother currently under Bendis post Secret Wars. Meanwhile Violator is amped again by Simmons in the last comic with Violator. He faked being depowered, and Simmons was trick giving Clown way more after a favor to get Simmons to Lucifer. So he is amped now anyway when we last seen Clown.
At standard levels, he has struggled to take on human minds, even inside them, twice lmao.
Since when has he struggled? I dont remember this, can you show me those scans? Eveytime he wanted to take over a mind/possess someone, he done it fine.
Nevermind that, IM is still way too fast for him and can ragdoll him around without real problem(he has ragdolled Red Hulk around who has far better feats than Violator, meh).
Stronger? Nope. Violator more than matches Spawn heighten strength, and tangle with a Omega as well for a short time. He has also beaten on Young Bloods Bradock fine, another 100+ toner. Not seeing that argument. Oh wait, you said IM ragdolled Red Hulk? I love to see what people like @ghostravage: @thedailybagel: @juiceboks: have to say to correct you. Red Hulk strength > any Iron Man suit minus Hulk Buster.
I'm pretty sure that IM tried to cut Grey Gargoyle head off after this one proved to be a big pain in the ass, so IMO he can try that here after noticing that his standard firepower doesn't put Vi down.
Thats a fair assumption. More realistic, but he will be tangling with Violator for some time at first, and I think Violator can pull of tech whammy, or possession, or even attempt BFR into Hell/Black if needed. All possibilities as well. Not saying IM cannot win here, just not likely unless he has knowledge before hand.
@sirfizzwhizz: Weaker armor?....are you serious? he has bleeding edge here. As you are tagging people, i'll do the same @krleavenger hey man, do you consider IM's Bleeding Edge one of Tony weaker armors?...
I stopped reading after the Spider King showed up, but if Violator doesn't have any feats after being amped by Al in Hell, i'm not sure how that's relevant now.
I don't have scans atm, give me some time. But he failed to take over Wynn's mind, while inside him(he was screaming let me out, and destroying ''furniture'', yet Wynn was holding himself together) and then after Armaggedon, Clown got inside a random guy in some department and the dude could fight back against Clown intents to take over, albeit briefly.
Red Hulk wasn't hurt by Iron Man, but he was indeed ragdolled around. You can tag noone1996 to verify that i have argued with him a couple of times that Ross was unfazed, but HE WAS bouncing around like a basketball when Iron Man started blasting/kicking him, and IIRC he had the Bleeding Edge there so the same thing can happen in this scenario. Also, Badrock beat him too, and beat the crap out of Vi brothers who gave him trouble as far as i can recall.
The problem is, IM is still miles above Violator speed wise. He isn't going to get tagged anytime soon.
Also @krleavenger is Tony's Bleeding Edge armor resistant to low level tp?
Can violater be taken out by sonic attacks?. They were powerful enough to nearly kill Juggernaut(non-Cyttorak).
Scans?
HERE you go. And also worth noting that Juggs was still powerful to give King Hyperion a vicious beating and was durable enough for the latter to hurt his hand punching him
Can violater be taken out by sonic attacks?. They were powerful enough to nearly kill Juggernaut(non-Cyttorak).
Scans?
HERE you go. And also worth noting that Juggs was still powerful to give King Hyperion a vicious beating and was durable enough for the latter to hurt his hand punching him
After re-reading that issue of Thunderbolts, he was only able to cripple him so badly because he was subjected to a massive amount of argonite radiation. Though yea, he still broke his hand punching Cain's face prior to that. Also, even standard Juggernaut has always been vulnerable to sonics. Nimrod was the first to exploit that IIRC.
Weaker armor?....are you serious? he has bleeding edge here. As you are tagging people, i'll do the same @krleavenger hey man, do you consider IM's Bleeding Edge one of Tony weaker armors?...
Bleeding Edge. I see that now. Fair enough.
I stopped reading after the Spider King showed up, but if Violator doesn't have any feats after being amped by Al in Hell, i'm not sure how that's relevant now.
Why do I need to show feats of amps? He is currently amp and this was the same Violator befor the amp who tangle for a time with Omega Spawn.
I don't have scans atm, give me some time. But he failed to take over Wynn's mind, while inside him(he was screaming let me out, and destroying ''furniture'', yet Wynn was holding himself together) and then after Armaggedon, Clown got inside a random guy in some department and the dude could fight back against Clown intents to take over, albeit briefly.
I really need to see scans. The Wynn one IIRC was Violator not trying to take over, but rather convince Wynn to work for him. Wynn was previously insane and Violator fixed Wynns mind, and manipulated him the whole arc.
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Never recalled the average joe one. Scans?
Red Hulk wasn't hurt by Iron Man, but he was indeed ragdolled around. You can tag noone1996 to verify that i have argued with him a couple of times that Ross was unfazed, but HE WAS bouncing around like a basketball when Iron Man started blasting/kicking him, and IIRC he had the Bleeding Edge there so the same thing can happen in this scenario.
Red Hulk was holding back the whole fight while IM gave it his all. Hardly a feat worth talking about unless your a wanking IM fan. Like Noone.
Also, Badrock beat him too, and beat the crap out of Vi brothers who gave him trouble as far as i can recall.
In Violator vs Badfrock, Badrock did not beat Violator straight up at all. Violator was taken down by combination of Tranqs with Badrock.
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Then in the rematch Violator was clearly the superior.
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Tacking both his brothers and Badrock on. Badrock ends the fight blasting Violatoraway with gear, and again, Violator just laughs it off and walk away. This was all a weaker classic Violator too.
The problem is, IM is still miles above Violator speed wise. He isn't going to get tagged anytime soon.
Why not? He is tagged so many times by non speedsters lmao. Captain America, Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Thor, Ares, Hulk, Red Hulk, Hercules, Doc Samson, ect.
Why is he Quicksilvering around Clown?
Also @krleavenger is Tony's Bleeding Edge armor resistant to low level tp?
Violator does not have TP, he straights up possess people. Hence the ability to change people bodies and transmutate their bodies in his image. Something IM never defended against.
@sirfizzwhizz: I'll post them later, i don't have my laptop here sadly and there's where i stash my scans.
As far as i recall, Clown was inside his head screaming to get out and breaking crap, Jason was seen struggling but holding his own at controlling his mind. This happened after Wynn decided to let him in his mind. Which makes it worse. But as i said, i'll post them later.
An Omega Spawn clone, with barely any feats sans kicking Jim's butt. Which is impressive, but not really that much since Jim was still developing his Spawn powers. The amount of power he gained with said amp is unknown. That's irrelevant at this point, until Violator shows something more.
He was holding back, but still, got kicked around like a baloon by Tony. The same thing would happen to Violator honestly.
Violator was koed by Bad IIRC. Nevermind, they had tranqs. Fair enough. Although i don't see superiority in their second encounter.
So basically, we are going to ignore Tony's speed feats...just because? nice. Awesome debating right there fam. Nevermind that, if you want to talk about out of character moves and things that happen usually or don't, i have never seen Clown taking over someone's mind and body in the middle of a 1vs1 fight. So?
@juiceboks: After re-reading that issue of Thunderbolts, he was only able to cripple him so badly because he was subjected to a massive amount of argonite radiation.
That is true. But I was mostly referring to the part where Juggs was ragdolling and whacking him around before that. Even then, the radiation put him in a lot of pain and made him unable to move, but his face subsequently turning into a beef patty was due to Cain and Moonstone repeatedly pounding him till he was begging for them to stop.
Also, even standard Juggernaut has always been vulnerable to sonics. Nimrod was the first to exploit that IIRC.
But is he explicitly weak to them or just more vulnerable?.
@caped_baldy: Not sure if you edited yet, but assuming so.
As far as i recall, Clown was inside his head screaming to get out and breaking crap, Jason was seen struggling but holding his own at controlling his mind. This happened after Wynn decided to let him in his mind. Which makes it worse. But as i said, i'll post them later.
I will wait on these. I cannot for the life of me remember this.
An Omega Spawn clone, with barely any feats sans kicking Jim's butt. Which is impressive, but not really that much since Jim was still developing his Spawn powers. The amount of power he gained with said amp is unknown. That's irrelevant at this point, until Violator shows something more.
Well to be fair, Omega Spawn was very fleshed out before fighting Violator.
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Stated and confirm power wise regardless having tons of feats or not. Hell King level area. Which is consistent considering Hell King Spawn got into a drag out fight vs Violator before this too.
He was holding back, but still, got kicked around like a baloon by Tony. The same thing would happen to Violator honestly.
If Violator held back and not wanted fight.
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I just dont see him being overpowered easily if at all.
Violator was koed by Bad IIRC. Nevermind, they had tranqs. Fair enough. Although i don't see superiority in their second encounter.
Really? Violator beat his brothers, and then overpowers Badrock. On panel, Badrock is making pain sounds, and his text box reflects struggling while Violator cracks jokes. How is he not superior in strength?
So basically, we are going to ignore Tony's speed feats...just because? nice.
What speed feats? Tony has travel speed feats. Travel Speed/Combat Speed. This been argued to death in IM threads.
Awesome debating right there fam. Nevermind that, if you want to talk about out of character moves and things that happen usually or don't, i have never seen Clown taking over someone's mind and body in the middle of a 1vs1 fight. So?
Really?
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Here he inhabits the bodies of many while fully forming in the body of another at the same time.
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Here is fighting Spawn while taking over the bodies of thousands. Switching from body to body to mind screw Spawn, and attack Spawn.
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He did this again to a degree in 3rd Age arc when Clown was HEAVILY depowered from being cut of from Hell. He was responsible from driving the resident insane too.
I dont see why he cannot just possess Stark who has no real defense to this unlike Spawn. Or drag Iron Man into the Black like this Vampire or Downings girl.
Can violater be taken out by sonic attacks?. They were powerful enough to nearly kill Juggernaut(non-Cyttorak).
Scans?
HERE you go. And also worth noting that Juggs was still powerful to give King Hyperion a vicious beating and was durable enough for the latter to hurt his hand punching him
After re-reading that issue of Thunderbolts, he was only able to cripple him so badly because he was subjected to a massive amount of argonite radiation. Though yea, he still broke his hand punching Cain's face prior to that. Also, even standard Juggernaut has always been vulnerable to sonics. Nimrod was the first to exploit that IIRC.
Also, being fair for that Iron Man scan, Juggs had taken one helluva beating before that. I dug up this counter from Chimeroid (CaV: Composite Iron Man [me] vs Hercules [him]). My first ever debate, actually:
First off the scan you are showing us is from Thunderbolts 150: Old scores. And it seems very impressive if we didnt know these two things.
In Thunderbolts 146 we find out that Juggernaut was depowered for this fight:
And second thing about this fight:
Marko, depowered as he was, had been in combat with Thor and Luke cage who also did a number on him.
@brucerogers: Argonite is one of several aspects of Hyperion analogous to Superman. It doesn't just hurt but weakens him in general just like Kryptonite does to Superman. Cain was hurting him before that sure, but not much else.
It's just one of the few methods of attacks he's vulnerable to, like Telepathy. He's never been K.Oed by them AFAIK, but he feels them just like anyone else would.
@juiceboks: Argonite is one of several aspects of Hyperion analogous to Superman. It doesn't just hurt but weakens him in general just like Kryptonite does to Superman. Cain was hurting him before that sure, but not much else.
Oh, I didn't know he was explicitly weak to it. Fair enough then
It's just one of the few methods of attacks he's vulnerable to, like Telepathy. He's never been K.Oed by them AFAIK, but he feels them just like anyone else would.
I see. So you don't think he should be more resistant towards them due to his invulnerability, compared to someone who is not?
@supremegeneration: Even if he was fresh from a fight, he was not banged up so bad as to make him too vulnerable to injury. Not to mention the fact that the sonic attack made him bleed from the ears, which I am pretty sure had nothing to do with the beating he took beforehand.
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