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#1 Posted by The_Thunderer (3120 posts) - - Show Bio

Who is more intelligent? Feats and Scans please

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#2 Posted by Erik (32504 posts) - - Show Bio

Reed. No feats or scans required for the obvious.

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#3 Posted by sa5m (2381 posts) - - Show Bio

The Mr. Fantastic =)

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#4 Posted by TDK_1997 (17205 posts) - - Show Bio

Reed.

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#5 Posted by jeanroygrant (20442 posts) - - Show Bio

@TDK_1997 said:

Reed.

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#6 Posted by Bo88gdan (5406 posts) - - Show Bio

Pym

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#7 Posted by KraytRawk (697 posts) - - Show Bio

Pym is smarter.

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#8 Posted by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

Pym created Ultron, that invention alone ends reed.

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#9 Posted by Erik (32504 posts) - - Show Bio

Since when did Pym have fanboys?! There is no way that Pym is smarter.

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#10 Posted by The_Thunderer (3120 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultron VS Ultimate Nullifier...hmm....

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#11 Posted by Erik (32504 posts) - - Show Bio

Sigh....

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#12 Posted by TrueIlluminatus (9579 posts) - - Show Bio
2339483-2101899_1354467_pym_particles_super.jpg
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#13 Posted by youazzholes (7 posts) - - Show Bio

Hank can't beat Dr. Doom. Only Reed can with luck. If Hank is lucky, he'd be smarter than Reed scientifically, but luck doesn't work that way.

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#14 Posted by nickthedevil (14901 posts) - - Show Bio

Hank Pym is. They've fought twice, Hank broke into the Baxter building too, and beat Reed with his own tech

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#15 Posted by Erik (32504 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickthedevil said:

Hank Pym is. They've fought twice, Hank broke into the Baxter building too, and beat Reed with his own tech

By that logic, Spider-Man is smarter than Iron Man.

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#16 Posted by nickthedevil (14901 posts) - - Show Bio

Until Spidey breaks into Tony's fortress with maximum security on FF's level, and beats him with his own tech, then you can make the comparison.

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#17 Posted by THORNETO (2 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickthedevil said:

Until Spidey breaks into Tony's fortress with maximum security on FF's level, and beats him with his own tech, then you can make the comparison.

He did, and Tony congratulated him for it.

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#18 Posted by nickthedevil (14901 posts) - - Show Bio

When? What issue? Scans? And I've never seen Tony's building have the security tech on level with FF's

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#19 Posted by Dernman (21794 posts) - - Show Bio

People underestimate Pym a lot. Some even think Spider-Man is smarter. :/  
Having said that even though Pym is on the same level as Reed that doesn't make him as smart as Reed..

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#20 Posted by 202122 (1260 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

Pym created Ultron, that invention alone ends reed.

Yeah personally i see Hank as smarter

@Erik said:

Since when did Pym have fanboys?! There is no way that Pym is smarter.

It's not being a fan boy it's just an opinio that is what a forum is for

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#21 Posted by Erik (32504 posts) - - Show Bio

@202122 said:

@Erik said:

Since when did Pym have fanboys?! There is no way that Pym is smarter.

It's not being a fan boy it's just an opinio that is what a forum is for

Yes but a fanboy is known for a complete lack of objectivity in relation to their preferred focus. They usually argue with circular logic that they refuse to acknowledge. Arguments or debates with such are usually futile. Every flaw is spun into semi-virtues and everything else, blown to comedic, complimentary proportions. Credit goes to urbandictionary because laziness.

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#22 Posted by nickthedevil (14901 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL

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#23 Posted by blds_bane (536 posts) - - Show Bio

Eternity, the living embodiment of almost everything. Having saved reality from chaos by defeating Chthon Eternity thanks Hank and calls him his champion, Hank Pym is Earth's Scientist Supreme.

At first Hank doesn't believe that he could possibly be Scientist Supreme since there are others like Reed Richards or Tony Stark. But Eternity insists that Hank is 'The Mage', he makes impossible things possible and takes science to the very point of magic for no other reason than that he can.

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#24 Posted by BringnIt (3875 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

People underestimate Pym a lot. Some even think Spider-Man is smarter. :/ Having said that even though Pym is on the same level as Reed that doesn't make him as smart as Reed..

That's because Pym said Peter is smarter than he is. It's not really that ludicrous to compare the two.

That said, Reed is better overall through the sciences than Pym is, but Pym has areas he excels at more so than Reed, and Reed seems less... clever, I guess the word is. For all his brilliance as a scientist, Reed lacks common sense many times.

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#25 Edited by Magethor (1128 posts) - - Show Bio

@blds_bane said:

Eternity, the living embodiment of almost everything. Having saved reality from chaos by defeating Chthon Eternity thanks Hank and calls him his champion, Hank Pym is Earth's Scientist Supreme.

At first Hank doesn't believe that he could possibly be Scientist Supreme since there are others like Reed Richards or Tony Stark. But Eternity insists that Hank is 'The Mage', he makes impossible things possible and takes science to the very point of magic for no other reason than that he can.

Eternity is the "living embodiment" of all things that is within HIS inner dimensional space. Meaning, anything outside of the small multiverse such as the extra dimensional space is not a part of Eternity. Anything OUTSIDE of TIME is NOT a part of Eternity. Eternity is actually small in comparison to the outer plans of his existence.

I have scans that show how small Eternity is. The Eternity Realm is a small sphere with hundreds of other spheres (Realities) that are bigger and grander than he is. The Dark Dimension is one of such as well as the Crimson Cosmos, the realm of the Infinities, and the Chaos Dimension.

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#26 Posted by Magethor (1128 posts) - - Show Bio

@Magethor said:

@blds_bane said:

Eternity, the living embodiment of almost everything. Having saved reality from chaos by defeating Chthon Eternity thanks Hank and calls him his champion, Hank Pym is Earth's Scientist Supreme.

At first Hank doesn't believe that he could possibly be Scientist Supreme since there are others like Reed Richards or Tony Stark. But Eternity insists that Hank is 'The Mage', he makes impossible things possible and takes science to the very point of magic for no other reason than that he can.

Eternity is the "living embodiment" of all things that is within HIS inner dimensional space. Meaning, anything outside of the small multiverse such as the extra dimensional space is not a part of Eternity. Anything OUTSIDE of TIME is NOT a part of Eternity. Eternity is actually small in comparison to the outer plans of his existence.

I have scans that show how small Eternity is. The Eternity Realm is a small sphere with hundreds of other spheres (Realities) that are bigger and grander than he is. The Dark Dimension is one of such as well as the Crimson Cosmos, the realm of the Infinities, and the Chaos Dimension.

To support what I've mentioned above, read this scan carefully and pay close attention to the illustrations when mentioned Eternity in HIS realm....

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#27 Posted by Dernman (21794 posts) - - Show Bio
@BringnIt said:

@Dernman said:

People underestimate Pym a lot. Some even think Spider-Man is smarter. :/ Having said that even though Pym is on the same level as Reed that doesn't make him as smart as Reed..

That's because Pym said Peter is smarter than he is. It's not really that ludicrous to compare the two.

That said, Reed is better overall through the sciences than Pym is, but Pym has areas he excels at more so than Reed, and Reed seems less... clever, I guess the word is. For all his brilliance as a scientist, Reed lacks common sense many times.

Ug I have had this debate before. It is a ridiculous statement that flys in the face of of years of established history just so they could give some props to Peter. It's just like that time Reed said Peter was just as smart as him when everybody knows that isn't true. Just because it's intelligence it's no different then when one character says the other is just as strong when years of history has shown that not to be true. Something we all know has happened. Spider-Man although smart isn't on Pyms level. If you want to go by what people say how about Peter who has admitted several times that he isn't as smart as Reed, Stark or Pym.
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#28 Posted by BringnIt (3875 posts) - - Show Bio

Two comments. First, Peter is known for downplaying himself, particularly in his inner monologue--Pym is not. Secondly, do you currently read Spider-Man?

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#29 Posted by Immortal777 (9602 posts) - - Show Bio

Dr Doom entire being=Reeds brain=Mjolnir they're all plot related>Pym

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#30 Posted by Magethor (1128 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

@BringnIt said:

@Dernman said:

People underestimate Pym a lot. Some even think Spider-Man is smarter. :/ Having said that even though Pym is on the same level as Reed that doesn't make him as smart as Reed..

That's because Pym said Peter is smarter than he is. It's not really that ludicrous to compare the two.

That said, Reed is better overall through the sciences than Pym is, but Pym has areas he excels at more so than Reed, and Reed seems less... clever, I guess the word is. For all his brilliance as a scientist, Reed lacks common sense many times.

Ug I have had this debate before. It is a ridiculous statement that flys in the face of of years of established history just so they could give some props to Peter. It's just like that time Reed said Peter was just as smart as him when everybody knows that isn't true. Just because it's intelligence it's no different then when one character says the other is just as strong when years of history has shown that not to be true. Something we all know has happened. Spider-Man although smart isn't on Pyms level. If you want to go by what people say how about Peter who has admitted several times that he isn't as smart as Reed, Stark or Pym.

Spiderman does have intelligence to put him on par to the rest with one exception that he doesn't particularly have the resources like Reed, Tony and Pym. Just throwing that off there.

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#31 Posted by Dernman (21794 posts) - - Show Bio
@Magethor said:

@Dernman said:

@BringnIt said:

@Dernman said:

People underestimate Pym a lot. Some even think Spider-Man is smarter. :/ Having said that even though Pym is on the same level as Reed that doesn't make him as smart as Reed..

That's because Pym said Peter is smarter than he is. It's not really that ludicrous to compare the two.

That said, Reed is better overall through the sciences than Pym is, but Pym has areas he excels at more so than Reed, and Reed seems less... clever, I guess the word is. For all his brilliance as a scientist, Reed lacks common sense many times.

Ug I have had this debate before. It is a ridiculous statement that flys in the face of of years of established history just so they could give some props to Peter. It's just like that time Reed said Peter was just as smart as him when everybody knows that isn't true. Just because it's intelligence it's no different then when one character says the other is just as strong when years of history has shown that not to be true. Something we all know has happened. Spider-Man although smart isn't on Pyms level. If you want to go by what people say how about Peter who has admitted several times that he isn't as smart as Reed, Stark or Pym.

Spiderman does have intelligence to put him on par to the rest with one exception that he doesn't particularly have the resources like Reed, Tony and Pym. Just throwing that off there.

No he doesn't.  He's admittedly a genius but he's not a super genius like the other three. Don't forget that Reed didn't always have those resources. IIRC there was a long time that they were poor, barely making ends meet.  Pym also didn't have the resources he has now until after he joined the Avengers.
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#32 Posted by Magethor (1128 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

@Magethor said:

@Dernman said:

@BringnIt said:

@Dernman said:

People underestimate Pym a lot. Some even think Spider-Man is smarter. :/ Having said that even though Pym is on the same level as Reed that doesn't make him as smart as Reed..

That's because Pym said Peter is smarter than he is. It's not really that ludicrous to compare the two.

That said, Reed is better overall through the sciences than Pym is, but Pym has areas he excels at more so than Reed, and Reed seems less... clever, I guess the word is. For all his brilliance as a scientist, Reed lacks common sense many times.

Ug I have had this debate before. It is a ridiculous statement that flys in the face of of years of established history just so they could give some props to Peter. It's just like that time Reed said Peter was just as smart as him when everybody knows that isn't true. Just because it's intelligence it's no different then when one character says the other is just as strong when years of history has shown that not to be true. Something we all know has happened. Spider-Man although smart isn't on Pyms level. If you want to go by what people say how about Peter who has admitted several times that he isn't as smart as Reed, Stark or Pym.

Spiderman does have intelligence to put him on par to the rest with one exception that he doesn't particularly have the resources like Reed, Tony and Pym. Just throwing that off there.

No he doesn't. He's admittedly a genius but he's not a super genius like the other three. Don't forget that Reed didn't always have those resources. IIRC there was a long time that they were poor, barely making ends meet. Pym also didn't have the resources he has now until after he joined the Avengers.

Well, not in mere science and invention, but he does have other "smarts" greater then theirs for instance tactical genius superiority, espionage superiority smarts and street smarts. However, when it comes to scientific CONCEPTIONS, he does somewhat par or have similar understandings as Reed. Invention-wise, Reed has superior knowledge and know-hows as with Pym and Tony. And for the record, Tony isn't scientifically smarter than they are. He's just better at building weapons then they are. Or so we believe, Reed is kind of like a pacifist and Tony likes blowing things up.

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#33 Posted by iLLituracy (13545 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Thunderer said:

Ultron VS Ultimate Nullifier...hmm....

You do know he didn't create the Ultimate Nullifier, right?

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#34 Posted by nickzambuto (25667 posts) - - Show Bio

@Magethorsaid:

@Dernman said:

@Magethorsaid:

@Dernman said:

@BringnItsaid:

@Dernman said:

People underestimate Pym a lot. Some even think Spider-Man is smarter. :/ Having said that even though Pym is on the same level as Reed that doesn't make him as smart as Reed..

That's because Pym said Peter is smarter than he is. It's not really that ludicrous to compare the two.

That said, Reed is better overall through the sciences than Pym is, but Pym has areas he excels at more so than Reed, and Reed seems less... clever, I guess the word is. For all his brilliance as a scientist, Reed lacks common sense many times.

Ug I have had this debate before. It is a ridiculous statement that flys in the face of of years of established history just so they could give some props to Peter. It's just like that time Reed said Peter was just as smart as him when everybody knows that isn't true. Just because it's intelligence it's no different then when one character says the other is just as strong when years of history has shown that not to be true. Something we all know has happened. Spider-Man although smart isn't on Pyms level. If you want to go by what people say how about Peter who has admitted several times that he isn't as smart as Reed, Starkor Pym.

Spiderman does have intelligence to put him on par to the rest with one exception that he doesn't particularly have the resources like Reed, Tony and Pym. Just throwing that off there.

No he doesn't. He's admittedly a genius but he's not a super genius like the other three. Don't forget that Reed didn't always have those resources. IIRC there was a long time that they were poor, barely making ends meet. Pym also didn't have the resources he has now until after he joined the Avengers.

Well, not in mere science and invention, but he does have other "smarts" greater then theirs for instance tactical genius superiority, espionage superiority smarts and street smarts. However, when it comes to scientific CONCEPTIONS, he does somewhat par or have similar understandings as Reed. Invention-wise, Reed has superior knowledge and know-hows as with Pym and Tony. And for the record, Tony isn't scientifically smarter than they are. He's just better at building weapons then they are. Or so we believe, Reed is kind of like a pacifist and Tony likes blowing things up.

This I can agree with.

Scientifically, Peter is not on par with Reed, Stark, Pym, and the like. He makes up for it however, with his formidable strategic intelligence, improvisational skills, and street smarts.

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#35 Posted by Saren (27534 posts) - - Show Bio

Reed easily.

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#36 Posted by Dernman (21794 posts) - - Show Bio

instance tactical genius superiority, espionage superiority smarts and street smarts

I get it you are trying to be funny. :p I'm not going to touch the street smarts comment. Peter was never a tactical genius or very clever in espionage.  
Tactical genius? no he just has years of experience and still gets schooled a lot.
"Espionage smarts"? no he hasn't really done anything all that great compared to others. He just uses common sense. 

 However, when it comes to scientific CONCEPTIONS, he does somewhat par or have similar understandings as Reed.

No no he doesn't. He scratches at the base of what Reed routinely soars over.  

 Invention-wise, Reed has superior knowledge and know-hows as with Pym and Tony. And for the record, Tony isn't scientifically smarter than they are. He's just better at building weapons then they are. Or so we believe, Reed is kind of like a pacifist and Tony likes blowing things up.


 I always said Reed was smarter then Stark and Pym so I don't know where you are going with this. I said they are on the same level but Reed is higher up on that level then they are. A level Peter isn't on.  I don't know where you are getting this but I never said Stark was smarter then Reed or Pym.  Although he is genuinely better in his field then they are. Simplifying Starks knowledge to simply building weapons is a false characterization of him. He knowledge goes far beyond that in all areas of technology and how it interacts in other areas.
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#37 Posted by BringnIt (3875 posts) - - Show Bio

It's pretty clear to me that you aren't up to date on Spider-Man. If you guys really want to debate Pym and Parker, make a new thread about it.

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#38 Posted by iLLituracy (13545 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

@Magethor said:

@Dernman said:

@BringnIt said:

@Dernman said:

People underestimate Pym a lot. Some even think Spider-Man is smarter. :/ Having said that even though Pym is on the same level as Reed that doesn't make him as smart as Reed..

That's because Pym said Peter is smarter than he is. It's not really that ludicrous to compare the two.

That said, Reed is better overall through the sciences than Pym is, but Pym has areas he excels at more so than Reed, and Reed seems less... clever, I guess the word is. For all his brilliance as a scientist, Reed lacks common sense many times.

Ug I have had this debate before. It is a ridiculous statement that flys in the face of of years of established history just so they could give some props to Peter. It's just like that time Reed said Peter was just as smart as him when everybody knows that isn't true. Just because it's intelligence it's no different then when one character says the other is just as strong when years of history has shown that not to be true. Something we all know has happened. Spider-Man although smart isn't on Pyms level. If you want to go by what people say how about Peter who has admitted several times that he isn't as smart as Reed, Stark or Pym.

Spiderman does have intelligence to put him on par to the rest with one exception that he doesn't particularly have the resources like Reed, Tony and Pym. Just throwing that off there.

No he doesn't. He's admittedly a genius but he's not a super genius like the other three. Don't forget that Reed didn't always have those resources. IIRC there was a long time that they were poor, barely making ends meet. Pym also didn't have the resources he has now until after he joined the Avengers.

I'm pretty sure this is incorrect.

Without the Avengers he had enough funding to come up with the Pym Particle formula and discovered Pym Particles. If memory serves he was backed by Janet's father for a while, as well.

While he wasn't as resourceful as he is now with the Avengers and being able to rub elbows with Reed Richards and Tony Stark, he's not really that much more resourceful seeing as how he's not really that much richer, either.

Also the reason why Pym was made Scientist Supreme, to add to the whole argument, is because of his imagination which Dan Slott took from his earliest appearance[s] when he was making presentations on the idea of shrinking stuff down using Pym Particles [which he still had yet to discover] and everyone laughed at him because at the time it sounded like a ridiculous concept. Pym has always been kind of lowballed in that aspect when coming up with crazy inventions and the like, but this was a part of the character that was kind of lost along the years and was most recently implemented into the character again with Slott's run on Mighty Avengers.

Whether he's Scientist Supreme is arguable, I think. Unless something has come up since Slott's run on Mighty Avengers Loki told Pym that it was actually him and not Eternity that told him he was Scientist Supreme, but, like I said, it's arguable, and the title doesn't really hold much water seeing as how it doesn't exactly mean he's the most powerful mind on Earth [MIND YOU, Eternity declared him EARTH'S Scientist Supreme, whether you want to say that he's Scientist Supreme for the entire universe is also up for argument]. It merely means that in Eternity's eyes, if I remember correctly, Pym represents Science in one of it's purest forms and is probably the most forward thinking mind on the planet [even in his earliest appearances he was talking about applications for Pym Particles when it came to the army, and later even talking about ending world hunger with such applications, and I remember during Secret Invasion there was a mention of Pym Particle surgery of some sort]. He represents the thought that created the wheel and fire and what have you.

With all that said, Reed is much more smarter than Hank. I don't think he's MUCH smarter than Hank, because Hank's no slouch. We're talking about a man who has extensive knowledge on quantum physics and biochemistry along with his feats in creating the smartest Artificial Intelligence known to man. And when you're talking about Ultron we're talking about an intelligence that's smart enough to create Vision, an inorganic organism, something that surprised even Pym himself, and something should be said for that. When's the last time you've seen HERBIE do something like that?

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#39 Posted by Dernman (21794 posts) - - Show Bio
@BringnIt said:
It's pretty clear to me that you aren't up to date on Spider-Man. If you guys really want to debate Pym and Parker, make a new thread about it.
If that's pretty clear to you then it show you judgment isn't sound. I read all current Spider-Man comics because he is one of my favorites character but because I'm not a fanboy I don't give him credentials that he doesn't have. Although he has done some impressive things nothing he has done is on their league and that's with them writing him up more the usual. Especially when some of his inventions were based of of others ideas and him needed help lately. To be honest I'm far more impressed with Doc Oc then Spider-Man.    You act like I'm saying Peter isn't a genius which I'm not saying. I have said he is a genius several times. He just isn't on Reed, Pym, and Stark's level which doesn't make him dumb.
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#40 Posted by Dernman (21794 posts) - - Show Bio
@iLLituracy:  I could argue with you about the funding or the timing of his discoveries but I'm not. 
The Scientist Supreme thing is debatable on whether or not it was Eternity or just his imagination but IIRC the people who brought it up and at what circumstances it was said under that it was his imagination you have to take with a grain of salt. That's not saying I do or do not believe it.
For the record though I don't believe I ever mentioned anything about him being the Scientist Supreme nor was I going too. That was someone else.
I also never said Pym was smarter then Reed. In fact I said he wasn't. 
I said Pym is often underestimated. I also said although on the same level as Reed that Reed is above him. 
 
Other then the funding I feel you are debating someone else
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#41 Posted by BringnIt (3875 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

@BringnIt said:
It's pretty clear to me that you aren't up to date on Spider-Man. If you guys really want to debate Pym and Parker, make a new thread about it.
If that's pretty clear to you then it show you judgment isn't sound. I read all current Spider-Man comics because he is one of my favorites character but because I'm not a fanboy I don't give him credentials that he doesn't have. Although he has done some impressive things nothing he has done is on their league and that's with them writing him up more the usual. Especially when some of his inventions were based of of others ideas and him needed help lately. To be honest I'm far more impressed with Doc Oc then Spider-Man. You act like I'm saying Peter isn't a genius which I'm not saying. I have said he is a genius several times. He just isn't on Reed, Pym, and Stark's level which doesn't make him dumb.

The fact of the matter is that for whatever reason you are downplaying his intelligence for some inane reason. You are focusing only on scientific inventions when comparing someone, Peter Parker, who has been a scientist for a limited period of time respective to both Pym and Reed, as well as having lesser formal education and resources due to the circumstances of their respective lives, and for some reason acting like this establishes a baseline for intelligence.

Peter Parker has outsmarted Stark before during the Civil War storyline, has been stated by Pym to have developed similar technology with his spider tracers to Pym's work with Ant-Man technology in a much lesser period of time while only a teen (Pym acknowledging internally that Parker was more intelligent than he), again outsmarted Stark and also Reed during Octavius's attack on New York, and proved definitively that he had stronger brainwave patterns than Octavius, who you are for some reason implying Peter is intellectually inferior to. Just to name a few easy feats that come off the top of my head. He also has a stated on-panel IQ of 270.

During his brief tenure at Horizon Labs improved on technology based on Pym's work when he designed his stealth suit, revolutionized the medical industry, and has come up with various impressive gadgetry such as his magnetic webbing, the device he used to freeze Hydro-Man and so forth. He's also impressed other high-tier geniuses with his ability to do Wakandan calculus on the fly, as well as being intelligent enough to correct his co-worker Grady's mathematics on his doorway into tomorrow.

He is on a similar level to those mentioned. If you want to argue he's not as intelligent, fine, because intelligence is impossible to quantify, but the fact of the matter is from a raw intelligence standpoint he is on the same tier and his inexperience as a scientist and his youth are different factors altogether. Valeria is more intelligent than Reed, and yet Reed has far more impressive feats for obvious reasons.

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#42 Posted by iLLituracy (13545 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

@iLLituracy: I could argue with you about the funding or the timing of his discoveries but I'm not. The Scientist Supreme thing is debatable on whether or not it was Eternity or just his imagination but IIRC the people who brought it up and at what circumstances it was said under that it was his imagination you have to take with a grain of salt. That's not saying I do or do not believe it.For the record though I don't believe I ever mentioned anything about him being the Scientist Supreme nor was I going too. That was someone else.I also never said Pym was smarter then Reed. In fact I said he wasn't. I said Pym is often underestimated. I also said although on the same level as Reed that Reed is above him. Other then the funding I feel you are debating someone else

The first statement was toward you, the rest of it was just a general statement to be clear. I thought that was apparent.

I never heard the Scientist Supreme thing being his imagination, I don't know why it would be seeing as how Hank's been healthy for a while now.

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#43 Posted by nickthedevil (14901 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah. It's not his imagination the scientist Supreme thing is supposedly Loki. Illusions and mind tricks and what not.

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#44 Posted by iLLituracy (13545 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

@Dernman said:

@BringnIt said:
It's pretty clear to me that you aren't up to date on Spider-Man. If you guys really want to debate Pym and Parker, make a new thread about it.
If that's pretty clear to you then it show you judgment isn't sound. I read all current Spider-Man comics because he is one of my favorites character but because I'm not a fanboy I don't give him credentials that he doesn't have. Although he has done some impressive things nothing he has done is on their league and that's with them writing him up more the usual. Especially when some of his inventions were based of of others ideas and him needed help lately. To be honest I'm far more impressed with Doc Oc then Spider-Man. You act like I'm saying Peter isn't a genius which I'm not saying. I have said he is a genius several times. He just isn't on Reed, Pym, and Stark's level which doesn't make him dumb.

The fact of the matter is that for whatever reason you are downplaying his intelligence for some inane reason. You are focusing only on scientific inventions when comparing someone, Peter Parker, who has been a scientist for a limited period of time respective to both Pym and Reed, as well as having lesser formal education and resources due to the circumstances of their respective lives, and for some reason acting like this establishes a baseline for intelligence.

Peter Parker has outsmarted Stark before during the Civil War storyline, has been stated by Pym to have developed similar technology with his spider tracers to Pym's work with Ant-Man technology in a much lesser period of time while only a teen (Pym acknowledging internally that Parker was more intelligent than he), again outsmarted Stark and also Reed during Octavius's attack on New York, and proved definitively that he had stronger brainwave patterns than Octavius, who you are for some reason implying Peter is intellectually inferior to. Just to name a few easy feats that come off the top of my head. He also has a stated on-panel IQ of 270.

During his brief tenure at Horizon Labs improved on technology based on Pym's work when he designed his stealth suit, revolutionized the medical industry, and has come up with various impressive gadgetry such as his magnetic webbing, the device he used to freeze Hydro-Man and so forth. He's also impressed other high-tier geniuses with his ability to do Wakandan calculus on the fly, as well as being intelligent enough to correct his co-worker Grady's mathematics on his doorway into tomorrow.

He is on a similar level to those mentioned. If you want to argue he's not as intelligent, fine, because intelligence is impossible to quantify, but the fact of the matter is from a raw intelligence standpoint he is on the same tier and his inexperience as a scientist and his youth are different factors altogether. Valeria is more intelligent than Reed, and yet Reed has far more impressive feats for obvious reasons.

Pym didn't internally say anything, he outright admitted that Peter was smarter than him in Marvel Knights Spider-Man #15.

But you have to understand that Pym is the type of guy who feels inferior a lot of the time, which is why he had his nervous breakdown and developed his Yellowjacket persona and stomped around Avengers Mansion with his false bravado and the like. Even when he was given the title of Scientist Supreme he asked why not Tony or Reed because that's in his character. So while Peter is smart, I don't think he's on Pym's level, at all. I'll admit that there's a strong possibility that Peter COULD be a super-genius, but I don't think he makes the top 10 list.

Pym also didn't know or understand that some of Peter's earlier inventions came from an innate knowledge of how to make such things as his web fluid and web shooters, it came naturally to him due to his powers. Finding a frequency that works in tandem with his powers isn't as impressive as Pym finding a frequency to make ants do what he wants, either.

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#45 Posted by Dernman (21794 posts) - - Show Bio

The fact of the matter is that for whatever reason you are downplaying his intelligence for some inane reason.  

No I'm not. I'm being real. You are overstating him for whatever reason. Maybe because you are a fan who is biased,

You are focusing only on scientific inventions when comparing someone,  

 No I'm not and nothing I have said has suggested such a thing. You may want to believe that because you don't want to accept you are over estimating peter so you are reading things into what I'm saying that are not there.

Peter Parker, who has been a scientist for a limited period of time respective to both Pym and Reed, as well as having lesser formal education and resources due to the circumstances of their respective lives, and for some reason acting like this establishes a baseline for intelligence. 

Peter Parker is a person who is exposed to things in his life that only enhance his scientific knowledge and learning.  Something that normal scientists don't have the benefit of.  Whether it's alien technology, access to scientific discoveries and the greatest minds of the world. His experiences as a super hero has only been a benefit to him because it has brought his mind to places and made him experience thing he wouldn't normally have without being a superhero. What you think that just because he isn't in some lab with a pen and pencil that it's holding him back. I argue that because he wasn't limiting himself to a normal life and was able to have the experiences he has that it has brought him father along then he would have been otherwise.
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#46 Posted by Dernman (21794 posts) - - Show Bio


The first statement was toward you, the rest of it was just a general statement to be clear. I thought that was apparent.

Ok that could have been my fault for not seeing that. :)

I never heard the Scientist Supreme thing being his imagination, I don't know why it would be seeing as how Hank's been healthy for a while now

There were a few things that suggested it. Loki was one, another was that being on a higher plane was messing with how he say things. I honestly forget the other things.  If it's true or not I don't know. I would like to believe that he is Scientist Supreme but can't say either way.
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#47 Posted by Erik (32504 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

I argue that because he wasn't limiting himself to a normal life and was able to have the experiences he has that it has brought him father along then he would have been otherwise.

That might make him look at things differently but there is absolutely no argument that Parker has had very limited access to formal education and research capabilities in comparison to Reed, Pym, Banner, McCoy and several others. Not just because of his super hero life, but also because he has been destitute almost all of his adult life. One could argue that he would have eventually starved to death if not for living off of Aunt May and Mary Jane for years. Money is what is needed to pay for education and scientific endeavors.

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#48 Posted by BringnIt (3875 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

The fact of the matter is that for whatever reason you are downplaying his intelligence for some inane reason.

No I'm not. I'm being real. You are overstating him for whatever reason. Maybe because you are a fan who is biased,

You are focusing only on scientific inventions when comparing someone,

No I'm not and nothing I have said has suggested such a thing. You may want to believe that because you don't want to accept you are over estimating peter so you are reading things into what I'm saying that are not there.

Peter Parker, who has been a scientist for a limited period of time respective to both Pym and Reed, as well as having lesser formal education and resources due to the circumstances of their respective lives, and for some reason acting like this establishes a baseline for intelligence.

Peter Parker is a person who is exposed to things in his life that only enhance his scientific knowledge and learning. Something that normal scientists don't have the benefit of. Whether it's alien technology, access to scientific discoveries and the greatest minds of the world. His experiences as a super hero has only been a benefit to him because it has brought his mind to places and made him experience thing he wouldn't normally have without being a superhero. What you think that just because he isn't in some lab with a pen and pencil that it's holding him back. I argue that because he wasn't limiting himself to a normal life and was able to have the experiences he has that it has brought him father along then he would have been otherwise.

These experiences of course benefit him versus what a normal scientist would experience, but Reed and Pym have similar experiences plus much more formal training due to the fact that Peter has had other issues in his life from a young age push him away from academics and science for periods of time.

The fact of the matter is that if characters think he's on their level intellectually, and he's able to understand the concepts conveyed to him by said characters, and he's at times outsmarted these characters, then he is on their level.

If this were classic Peter, then he's a far shot off from being on this same level, but current Peter is there. He's not as intelligent as Reed, obviously, but he is a top-tier mind in Marvel.

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#49 Posted by pooty (16231 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

@Dernman said:

People underestimate Pym a lot. Some even think Spider-Man is smarter. :/ Having said that even though Pym is on the same level as Reed that doesn't make him as smart as Reed..

That's because Pym said Peter is smarter than he is. It's not really that ludicrous to compare the two.

That said, Reed is better overall through the sciences than Pym is, but Pym has areas he excels at more so than Reed, and Reed seems less... clever, I guess the word is. For all his brilliance as a scientist, Reed lacks common sense many times.

You said it best. Reed is smarter but Pym is more clever. with the same resources and time, reed would create things more fantastic(hehe) than Pym. But if they were prepping against each other i think Pym would win. P.S. I know spidey has some new toys but it must be awful good to put him in the convo with these 2. if you have a link page to show peters skill please post it.

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#50 Posted by BringnIt (3875 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

@BringnIt said:

@Dernman said:

People underestimate Pym a lot. Some even think Spider-Man is smarter. :/ Having said that even though Pym is on the same level as Reed that doesn't make him as smart as Reed..

That's because Pym said Peter is smarter than he is. It's not really that ludicrous to compare the two.

That said, Reed is better overall through the sciences than Pym is, but Pym has areas he excels at more so than Reed, and Reed seems less... clever, I guess the word is. For all his brilliance as a scientist, Reed lacks common sense many times.

You said it best. Reed is smarter but Pym is more clever. with the same resources and time, reed would create things more fantastic(hehe) than Pym. But if they were prepping against each other i think Pym would win. P.S. I know spidey has some new toys but it must be awful good to put him in the convo with these 2. if you have a link page to show peters skill please post it.

Peter's most impressive recent scientific achievements are calculating on the fly during the middle of an explosion a way to counteract the negative effects of anti-vibranium/reverbrium; creating a new, lightweight durable material (the one used in his bulletproof battlesuit); created technology that revolutionized medical transport of things like organs; the stealth suit, of course, which makes the user impervious to outside sounds and also invisible (an improvement and application on one of Pym's theories); technology to freeze Hydro-Man; technology to stop Equinox as well as his own Gobby Glider; and of course his Ends of the Earth armor, designed to take shots from a 75 tonner, impervious to damage from Electro and easily able to see through Mysterio's inventions.

That said, his feats are still not on the level of Pym and Reed and for clarity I am not indicating they are.