Battle ends by death. Both are driven mad by power and now pit against each other in an attempt to steal the other's powers. Battle takes place anywhere inside the multiverse.
So is Chaos King destroying the multiverse still valid? Cuz Oblivion hasn't shown he could do that, being that Chaos King is an aspect of him. Oblivion can't even kill the Juggernaut :/
Maybe Oblivion can't do it because he is a devout follower of the Living Tribunal /// TOAA's words, and wants to keep the balance, and therefore depowers himself. Whereas his follow shows little regard for such rules. That'd be my guess. Also, the abstracts must hold back a lot, because I can recall 2 separate occasions where Eternity "lost" or was "pinned" by somebody and then revealed he was pretty much okay the entire time. Once against Iceman, and the other against Quasar.
Additionally, I can remember Eternity being trapped once, and I think absorb another time by Dormammu. So my guess would be that they generally are afraid to truly unleash their power, because their aspects tend to be immensely powerful. Chaos and Laws aspect alone was a devastating character until Galactus finally defeated him, and Law/Chaos took him back. I'd think he was depowered, because IIRC he became sort of a jobber after that incident.
Finally we can use Juggernaut, and Chaos King as examples of this, but there are a few characters who get their power from external sources, yet the power when in their hands proves more devastating than the effects of anything that the bestower of such powers ever really does. Sorcerer Supreme might be a slight example of this as well.
Chaos King takes this. Mikaboshi is a Multiversal level power while the IG is limited in power to it's own universe in which it exists as each part of the multiverse has it's own IG iirc.
Thanos: if at any point while wielding the gauntlet he'd have become aware of Chao's king existence (and he would have, being omniscient) he just would have reconfigured him to be the tool he is supposed to be. I think it's difficult to understand the universality of the IG if you haven't read the entire series.
Chaos King takes this. Mikaboshi is a Multiversal level power while the IG is limited in power to it's own universe in which it exists as each part of the multiverse has it's own IG iirc.
Thanos declares himself the supreme being of this and all universes. And considering that he is omnipotent on a multiversal scale he shouldn't have a problem destroying Chaos King.
Thanos wins. Someone needs to read Thanos Quest and Silver Surfer's: Thanos annual. Thanos sent the entire reality into Oblivion and he was all by himself save for Warlock and all the characters outside of the extradimension. Mikaboshi was 97% of achieving what Thanos already had done, but that's not all. Thanos reversed the effect, something that Mikaboshi couldn't have done since he is only an agent of Oblivion.
Chaos King takes this. Mikaboshi is a Multiversal level power while the IG is limited in power to it's own universe in which it exists as each part of the multiverse has it's own IG iirc.
Thanos declares himself the supreme being of this and all universes. And considering that he is omnipotent on a multiversal scale he shouldn't have a problem destroying Chaos King.
Which he really wasn't, thus gotten beatn later on. If that does work, I would have declared myself king of candyland a long time ago.
Chaos King takes this. Mikaboshi is a Multiversal level power while the IG is limited in power to it's own universe in which it exists as each part of the multiverse has it's own IG iirc.
Thanos declares himself the supreme being of this and all universes. And considering that he is omnipotent on a multiversal scale he shouldn't have a problem destroying Chaos King.
Thanos with the IG never showed anything multiversal about his power for one. 2, if the IG truly was omnipotent then the LT shouldn't have been able to shut down the gems. The infinity gems are omnipotent in the universe they come from. There's an IG for each universe that exists. The LT stands above all of them. Now the HOTU is a different story and Thanos was TRULY omnipotent at that point.
Am I the only one who view's the "aspect" deal, as more symbolic than physical.
It was never physical from the start. But people here on Comicvine only care about physical cause and effect and nothing else. That's why its so hard to explain to these guys about upper dimension realities or lower dimensional realities because all they care about is the 3D aspect physical cause and effects.
Thanos with the IG never showed anything multiversal about his power for one. 2, if the IG truly was omnipotent then the LT shouldn't have been able to shut down the gems. The infinity gems are omnipotent in the universe they come from. There's an IG for each universe that exists. The LT stands above all of them. Now the HOTU is a different story and Thanos was TRULY omnipotent at that point.
Arent we completely ignoring the fact that Thor annual retcons Chaos King as a mere aspect of Obvilion, and there has always been a cosmic balance between forces of life and death, they have to be on equal power level else we know what happens (i.e. Marvel: The End). Thanos single handedly easily handled the life part of cosmic balance with but a wave of his hand, i.e. Eternity and Infinity, so death part of that which includes Death and Oblivion (and Chaos King is but a mere aspect of him) should be no problem.
Not to mention, Eternity isnt really a universal being, and has held universe on the palm of his hands. Beings leagues below Eternity, i.e. cosmic cube beings like Molecule Man and Beyonder (after their first retcon) has harmed entire multiverse in their fight as well. Most of the abstract Thanos impresioned in a whim have shown to perform on a multiversal power level. Heck , Thor Annual 01 even says the fight between Galactus , Scarier and The Other would have done more damange to the multiverse than Chaos King did, and thats just 3 Galactus level beings fighting, while IG soloed a whole bunch of abstract (9 Galactus level beings)
As per multiversal feat, Ultimate Nulifier has destroyed and re-created the multiverse while in a fight an incomplete IG redirect its power back to its user (Quasar) who instead got nullified. 4 infinity gems gone out of control created numerous reality in ultraforce, and each reality is a universe. Thanos also unknowingly sent a omnidirectional blast out towards the multiverse which ended up in the real of Beyonder and utterly destroyed it.
The powers of IG are often really really under-estimated. Thanks to one of the most knowledgeable debtor in comicvine at the moment (@Hyper_God:) for pointing all this out in a different thread.
Also did you know even LT, while using TOAA's power, actually struggled to contain IG? At the end of Infinity Wars LT with the power of TOAA ruled that the gem shall henceforth never work in unison, yet in the recent Hickman's run of Fantasitc Four it was revealed that IG works just fine despite LT juridiction.
Once again, this image is from(@Hyper_God:) as well. While i have read virtually every issue this argument addresses (not including Ultraverse) i was totally unable to understand how truly grand 616 IG actually is.
But he's pretty much the expert of both IG as well as Chaos King, so will let him have the last word, who knows maybe he'll come up with an awesome argument that Chaos King is above IG , but IG being a merely universal is not entirely correct.
Am I the only one who view's the "aspect" deal, as more symbolic than physical.
It was never physical from the start. But people here on Comicvine only care about physical cause and effect and nothing else. That's why its so hard to explain to these guys about upper dimension realities or lower dimensional realities because all they care about is the 3D aspect physical cause and effects.
It's not only that. In the end it's only 1 character statement, nothing more. Another well know example in Anime Vice, Cell saying he can destory a galaxy, while power scaling, fights, and feats prove otherwise.
It can just mean, that nothingness and chaos(which Mikaboshi represents) is an aspect of "oblivion"(which Oblivion represents).
@Killemall said:
@beautifulrevery said:
Thanos with the IG never showed anything multiversal about his power for one. 2, if the IG truly was omnipotent then the LT shouldn't have been able to shut down the gems. The infinity gems are omnipotent in the universe they come from. There's an IG for each universe that exists. The LT stands above all of them. Now the HOTU is a different story and Thanos was TRULY omnipotent at that point.
Arent we completely ignoring the fact that Thor annual retcons Chaos King as a mere aspect of Obvilion.
Not again. There really wasn't anything clearly retconned.
Where? it doesn't say that, and the things I said earlier still make the more sense. You should read a few posts before replying, sometimes.
It says clearly on the panel
"Mikaboshi tried......., came so very close...... because he is not me. Just one aspect of the infinity i am".
I am not going to scroll back, you replied to me, i gave you a direct quote from comics where it says shows. Now either you tell me why you went all melodramatic in "Not again, there really wasnt a retcon", when the panel is right in front of you, or just dont reply.
@Killemall: How lazy can you be. It's only 2 pages of posts no longer than 2 sentences. and my post to 7AM is right above your last one. And, again, what is said in the scan really doesn't replace anything about Mikaboshi.
@Killer_of_trolls said:
Am I the only one who view's the "aspect" deal, as more symbolic than physical.
@Killer_of_trolls said:
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:
@Killer_of_trolls said:
Am I the only one who view's the "aspect" deal, as more symbolic than physical.
It was never physical from the start. But people here on Comicvine only care about physical cause and effect and nothing else. That's why its so hard to explain to these guys about upper dimension realities or lower dimensional realities because all they care about is the 3D aspect physical cause and effects.
It's not only that. In the end it's only 1 character statement, nothing more. Another well know example in Anime Vice, Cell saying he can destory a galaxy, while power scaling, fights, and feats prove otherwise.
It can just mean, that nothingness and chaos(which Mikaboshi represents) is an aspect of "oblivion"(which Oblivion represents).
@Killemall: How lazy can you be. It's only 2 pages of posts no longer than 2 sentences. and my post to 7AM is right above your last one. And, again, what is said in the scan really doesn't replace anything about Mikaboshi.
Ok why do i have to read a reply you gave you someone else, when it wasnt clearly directed at me.
Now that its re-direct at me, i can comment on it.
It's not only that. In the end it's only 1 character statement, nothing more.
Yeah the difference being:
1. The character was talking to us, the reader , rather than other characters and hence would have absolutely no reason to lie.
2. Everything he said was absolutely correct up to his point, why should this statement be anything but?
Another well know example in Anime Vice, Cell saying he can destory a galaxy, while power scaling, fights, and feats prove otherwise.
Firstly this has nothing to do with DBZ. Secondly, neither power scaling nor fights nor feats prove otherwise. You are saying if Chaos King had someone fought and beaten Eternity or that his feats are something eternity couldnt match, untrue.
It can just mean, that nothingness and chaos(which Mikaboshi represents) is an aspect of "oblivion"(which Oblivion represents).
The issue was pretty clear on this I do not know how you are interpreting it as thus.
Its pretty clear, Chaos King failed because he was not Obvilion but a mere aspect of what he is. There is nothing that implies they both represent nothingness and that is an aspect of oblivion. Not to mention Oblivion is the nothingness.
Am I the only one who view's the "aspect" deal, as more symbolic than physical.
It was never physical from the start. But people here on Comicvine only care about physical cause and effect and nothing else. That's why its so hard to explain to these guys about upper dimension realities or lower dimensional realities because all they care about is the 3D aspect physical cause and effects.
The three spatial dimensions we perceive are not components of some system of concentrically arranged "dimensions". Your dichotomy between "upper dimensions" and "lower dimensions" is a false one.
I think this is generally a weak logic. People think IG is universal because there is one in each universe yes. Fantastic Four: War of Four Cities clearly shows alternate reality IG are weaker than 616. Not to mention IG has feats to show they are way above universal anyways, and they incapaciated a bunch of abstracts, few of them have multiversal feats themselves.
Thanos wins. Someone needs to read Thanos Quest and Silver Surfer's: Thanos annual. Thanos sent the entire reality into Oblivion and he was all by himself save for Warlock and all the characters outside of the extradimension. Mikaboshi was 97% of achieving what Thanos already had done, but that's not all. Thanos reversed the effect, something that Mikaboshi couldn't have done since he is only an agent of Oblivion.
but i mikaboshi doesnt WANT to reverse the effect there is a difference between want and could
See, all I've been seeing this entire thread is that Mikaboshi is a Multiversal threat and that the IG is a universal item and arguments about those two things solely when both are irrelevant as all hell.
Why should it matter if Mikaboshi's a threat to the multiverse?
The Infinity Gauntlet IS a universal item. That means it's native to one universe and only holds domain over one universe. It doesn't work outside of it's native universe.
Arguably if someone's holding the Gauntlet and has full control over the Gauntlet then they control the aspects of their native universe while they're in it. That means that Mikaboshi can't really possess a threat to their universe because he can't overpower the Gauntlet the same way other aspects which are supposedly multiversal threats couldn't either when Thanos originally had the Gauntlet.
Mikaboshi in his Chaos King form, to my recollection, is equal to Eternity and Death as an abstract. Eternity posed no threat to Thanos even though Eternity is the embodiment of everything and Death saw him as a superior.
In short, there's nothing Mikaboshi can do against Thanos if they're fighting in his universe.
That's just my thoughts on the arguments being posed. There's nothing else being said about Mikaboshi other than he's multiversal. Try saying something else about Mikaboshi and stop parroting the same crap over and over.
Chaos King pretty easy but thanos might get a win if he some how prep'd for the fight but i just see him losing .
An oxymoron in itself! He has the IG, he has mastered time and space, he has infinite time to play out scenarios, so, if he some how prepped for the fight, he can prep for eternity!
p.s. wasn't Miki tricked in the end by Amadeus? I'm sure someone like Thanos with the IG on his hand can come up with something more grand than Amadeus in the end, imo.
chaos king is equal to eternity (which was hinted), IG thanos is more powerful than eternity, and chaos king somewhat lacked on panel feats, and for that i think IG thanos takes this.
Not really. It no sold multiple Abstracts including ones with Multiversal feats, sent out a blast to the beyonders realm which wrecked it, and when Adam Warlock and LT confronted eachother, LT said a battle would lay waste to all realities, which indicates the IG being Multiversal.
This is of course if were talking about the Classic IG. The current IG got broke by Captain America :P
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