There's really no need to post scans from WWH. I've read that book several times. Nothing in there states or suggests that Sentry was powerful enough to destroy the Earth. Pak (the writer) states that he was powerful enough to destroy everyone and everything around him (meaning everyone and everything in his vicinity, which is what happened), not the whole planet. You were dishonest about what Pak said, and even after I posted his quote, you're still saying the same shit and attempting to compare it another irrelevant situation that has nothing to do with this fight. Too many people here love to over-exaggerate what they read, and it makes no sense.
Already addressed Sentry/Genis-Vell. That was the only time that they destroyed a planet (Yttrium) like I said. The fact that they were holding back is besides my point. It was collection of energy from both of them, not just the Sentry. Same thing versus the Collective. Sentry didn't bust that moon on his own. Either way, he was more powerful against Genis-Vell than he was against WWH. Two different levels of power in two different fights. There's really no denying that.
1-There is a limit to anger, you can only become angry to a certain level, so Hulk's power is limited.
2- When hulks becomes angry he needs time to have his power boost, and he has already been beated (or killed) several times against characters slower than superman before he got his power boost.
3- When you get angry, you won't stay angry for long.. I mean, there is a time when you'll eventually calm down, it's psychological.
1. That has absolutely nothing to do with anything, Superman doesn't even have the ability to amp himself(without an outside source) so he is even more limited.
2. That is flat out false, for instance Hulk has gone from Banner to almost World Breaker levels in 2 short panels
When was Hulk killed and beaten and how does that matter in this fight?
3. Yea you calm down after a fight, as in after he beats Superman.
1- Absolutely nothing to do with anything? Sorry, i thought that the more hulk get angry, the more he become powerful as it was stated by stan lee.
And yes, superman is already strong enough to beat hulk, he doesn't need to amp himself.
And my point was, a person can't get angrier and angrier untill the end of time, there is a limit to anger so there is a limit to hulk's power
2-Just what is this scan supposed to prove? That Bruce banner can transform into hulk? Well, good job...I guess.
My argument still stand, since hulk didn't get his power boost against Thor, Lady hellbender, Ironman, Wolverine, Silver surfer, havoc..Etc
-Dude, if Batman can beat hulk without preps, the what about superman?
ANd who killed hulk? 4 persons did it: Wolverine, Rulk, The abomination and i don't remember the fourth one.
Bonus: Deadpool killed Hulk when he calmed down and turned back into bruce banner.
3- Good luck with that, because hulk have already fought superman, and guess what? Superman was standing still while hulk was punching him until he grew tired and turned back into bruce banner in the Marvel vs dc crossover 1996
Oh and for the information, i'm neither a fan of superman nor hulk.
@static_shock: There's really no need to post scans from WWH. I've read that book several times. Nothing in there states or suggests that Sentry was powerful enough to destroy the Earth. Pak (the writer) states that he was powerful enough to destroy everyone and everything around him (meaning everyone and everything in his vicinity, which is what happened), not the whole planet. You were dishonest about what Pak said, and even after I posted his quote, you're still saying the same shit and attempting to compare it another irrelevant situation that has nothing to do with this fight. Too many people here love to over-exaggerate what they read, and it makes no sense.
1. I don't know who you are or what books you might have read/not read.
2. I post scans to illustrate and back up a claim i make, why this of all things would bother someone is beyond me because all you have to do is ignore the scans if you already know them.
Nothing says he was about to destroy things only in his vicinity either, so you defeat your own point. Dishonest? Don't be ridiculous. Because you can't PROVE in any conceivable way that Sentry was not about to destroy the whole planet, you get stuck on verbiage and because Pak didn't specify planet or Earth it means Sentry couldn't have or wasn't about to destroyed it, despite the everything and everyone around him, but oh right must have meant only in his nearby vicinity because WHY? Where did you come to this conclusion? Because cause he didn't destroy New York and 8 million people in it(or however much was left when they evacuated), how convenient that he killed exactly ZERO people, it's almost like most populated places on Earth have some kind of a plot shield protecting them.
Already addressed Sentry/Genis-Vell. That was the only time that they destroyed a planet (Yttrium) like I said. The fact that they were holding back is besides my point. It was collection of energy from both of them, not just the Sentry. Same thing versus the Collective. Sentry didn't bust that moon on his own. Either way, he was more powerful against Genis-Vell than he was against WWH. Two different levels of power in two different fights. There's really no denying that.
Yea except you forgot to mention the part where they were holding back while they did it. It is not besides the point, because that's what actually called being dishonest as you left out an important element of the feat that you try to lowball. It was a collection of energy redirected at one another that as a side effect busted a planet, it was not a collection of energy directed solely at a planet with a purpose to bust it. I never said the Sentry busted the Moon i said he did it with the Collective, is reading comprehension one of your weak points? Why? Because he didn't bust planet Earth? This again? Did you really expect him to do such a thing? Why do all these characters when they bust planets 99% of the time go do so on some random planets no one gives a crap or are not integral to the continuity of the universe, but never bust the Earth unless some reality warping or time shenanigans is involved that brings it all back?
Subject: Hulk vs Superman. No speed blitzing no Worldbreaker just an all out Brawl
Scenario: Hulk is being controlled by lex luthor to destroy metropolis. superman comes in and try's to subdue him.
My thoughts: this could go either way but i think that superman could take out hulk with the speed blitz but if hulk goes worldbreaker he would destroy superman. but without those 2 advantages i say hulk would win if they fist fight each other but if supes uses all his powers to slow hulk down enough to pound him into a knockout superman would win
There are a few ways to look at it:
Current versions: Rebirth superman vs Cho hulk - probably still superman.
Rebirth Superman vs indestructible hulk - Hulk smashes
Pre 52 (or new 52) superman vs savage hulk (the most standard versions) - What should be discussed here
Anyways, keep the following points in mind:
While according to OP, superman is not morals off and trying to "subdue hulk" remember Hulk is trying to destroy metropolis. Guess who else was trying to do the same before getting killed by superman ? Doomsday. It is also possible that superman would corelate him with DD.
Just because superman's "speed-blitz" is banned doesn't mean he can't use super speed at all. Apart from flash, he has more showings of operating at super speed than any other character in marvel/DC, and rarely does he "speed-blitz"
1- Absolutely nothing to do with anything? Sorry, i thought that the more hulk get angry, the more he become powerful as it was stated by stan lee.
And yes, superman is already strong enough to beat hulk, he doesn't need to amp himself.
And my point was, a person can't get angrier and angrier untill the end of time, there is a limit to anger so there is a limit to hulk's power
Yes and what does that have to do with Hulk eventually reaching his limit, when he has a higher limit than Superman who can't amp himself internally?
Depends on the versions.
Who in this thread said that Hulks anger and strength is limitless? You are literally arguing a straw man.
2-Just what is this scan supposed to prove? That Bruce banner can transform into hulk? Well, good job...I guess.
My argument still stand, since hulk didn't get his power boost against Thor, Lady hellbender, Ironman, Wolverine, Silver surfer, havoc..Etc
-Dude, if Batman can beat hulk without preps, the what about superman?
It was to prove that Bruce can go from his human form to a form that shook the entire continent just by walking, he was extremely angry and you said Hulk needs time to get angry and boost his strength, which is flat out false.
What? Hulk had his power boost in literally every fight he ever had.
LOOOOOOOOL, omg... Dude... bro... muchacho... The Batman/Hulk crossover comic is non-canon. You do realize Venom has beaten Superman in a crossover... it's not CANON.
ANd who killed hulk? 4 persons did it: Wolverine, Rulk, The abomination and i don't remember the fourth one.
Bonus: Deadpool killed Hulk when he calmed down and turned back into bruce banner.
3- Good luck with that, because hulk have already fought superman, and guess what? Superman was standing still while hulk was punching him until he grew tired and turned back into bruce banner in the Marvel vs dc crossover 1996
Wolverine never killed Hulk, Rulk killed Hulk with Banners mind but that was LoebForce Rulk who also killed a being that didn't die to a black hole but died to his punch. The Abomination also didn't exactly kill the Hulk, that was also 40 years ago, Hulk has grown in power since than to the point where he beats the crap out of Abomination so badly he covers in fear from the mere thought of facing Hulk in combat. Let me help you the fourth one was the Enchantress but again that was some 40 years ago, recently her powers couldn't even affect an angry Amadeus Cho Hulk whose much weaker than the real Hulk.
Yea, another non-canon comic.
Oh and for the information, i'm neither a fan of superman nor hulk.
I can tell by your lack of knowledge on either character and the fact that you think Batman vs Hulk crossover is a legit comic that is part of the Marvel and DC continuity.
Current versions: Rebirth superman vs Cho hulk - probably still superman.
Rebirth Superman vs indestructible hulk - Hulk smashes
Pre 52 (or new 52) superman vs savage hulk (the most standard versions) - What should be discussed here
Another way to look at it is to see when the thread was made(4 years ago) and use the current versions of the time which is new-52 Superman if i am not mistaken and the OP mentioned no WBH, which makes me think he is ok with WWH being used. So that's how i am personally looking at all this.
Anyways, keep the following points in mind:
While according to OP, superman is not morals off and trying to "subdue hulk" remember Hulk is trying to destroy metropolis. Guess who else was trying to do the same before getting killed by superman ? Doomsday. It is also possible that superman would corelate him with DD.
Just because superman's "speed-blitz" is banned doesn't mean he can't use super speed at all. Apart from flash, he has more showings of operating at super speed than any other character in marvel/DC, and rarely does he "speed-blitz"
1. True but what does that have to do with the fight exactly?
2. I actually went over this, he can use his speed to dodge mostly and he can match Hulk punch for punch, but anything that involves overwhelming your opponent with speed is a blitz, so his best way of winning this is actually taken out. You are confusing speed blitz with bullrush, which is a common mistake because they are used interchangeably. But speed blitz is not just flying or running at someone fast, it's also punching them a bunch of times before they can react or even just throwing 1 punch at arms length before they even moved a muscle.
Nothing says he was about to destroy things only in his vicinity either, so you defeat your own point. Dishonest? Don't be ridiculous. Because you can't PROVE in any conceivable way that Sentry was not about to destroy the whole planet.
No. According to Pak and the amount of damage Sentry did to New York, he wasn't powerful enough to destroy the planet there (after expending all of his energy into exhaustion, no). Destroying everyone and everything around him (according to Pak) means everyone and everything within his vicinity, dude. It's not rocket science, so please, learn to read. Everyone and everything around you, within your surrounding area or location, is your vicinity. Definition:
Those WWH scans don't back your claim, either. Sorry. You also didn't bother anybody, by the way. I just pointed out what was wrong these battle forums, and you're a perfect example of it. LOL.
I didn't even read the rest of your post. By all means, have the last word, big guy.
@static_shock: No. According to Pak and the amount of damage Sentry did to New York, he wasn't powerful enough to destroy the planet there (after expending all of his energy into exhaustion, no). Destroying everyone and everything around him (according to Pak) means everyone and everything within his vicinity, dude. It's not rocket science, so please, learn to read. Everyone and everything around you, within your surrounding area or location, is your vicinity.
Not according to Pak since you are drawing your own conclusion from Paks words. The amount of damage Sentry did to New York is a moot point as i already explained why, Molecule Man hit Beyonder with the power to destroy billions of dimensions and he did not even bring down the house they fought inside of. He didn't exhaust himself, Pak even tells you this, Hulk pulled him out the precipice, as in brought him back to his senses and they both reverted back. No, because destroying everything around him is different to destroying everything around his vicinity, it really isn't rocket science but you want to make a much bigger deal out of it. The word vicinity is nowhere mentioned, stop trying to force it.
Those WWH scans don't back your claim, either. Sorry. You also didn't bother anybody, by the way. I just pointed out what was wrong these battle forums, and you're a perfect example of it. LOL.
Yes they do actually, more so than the claims you made without anything to back them up with other than your own interpretation of it. What? Who was i suppose to bother? What's actually wrong with these forums are the condescending know it all's that get upset when people post scans about the things they talk and also stoop to the lowest level of comicvine as in posting images of definitions of everyday words, like this is really sad. I'd expect it from someone with 50 posts, not 50k.
I didn't even read the rest of your post. By all means, have the last word, big guy.
What is wrong with you? Like literally did you have a bad day or woke up on the wrong side of the bed? You made this whole thing into a much bigger issue than it really was, by getting easily triggered by some of the most random and minute things and now you are ending it like we had some HUGE altercation. Have the last word? Big guy? Really?
@20damon: Bending space time isn't the same as moving through it, we have no idea what would happen to the environment. It's not that simple. Regardless, as I said in my original comment, what I'm saying isn't going against the comic, the size was stated, but never the mass. On the other hand, saying that Supes is not FTL would be going against the comic.
@supremegeneration: I like feats, I like calculating them, I'm not going "against them", if something can be explained better with science then why the shit not would't we do it? Explaining the feat makes it less of an outlier, or are you trying to tell me Joe Fixit is a casual planet buster. Dessad's explanation may only be a theory, but so is Jay Garrick's explanation about Zoom's powers, yet everyone takes is as gospel, the writers in those instances were telling us something, it obviously wasn't random. And for the last time, what I'm saying isn't going against the comic, size ≠ mass, while saying that Supes isn't FTL would be going against the comics.
@darkhoudini: It's good to lift earth however the weight of a star a better feat.
(Good thing Hulk can't even dream that either) - He did here.
(Void all of his hits and pound him with a couple thousand punches per second) - Pound someone, who shrugged planet busting attacks? Last time I checked Clark can't generate planet busting power.
I also noticed when Clark face opponents with high strength and durability he inevitable brawl as blitzing attacks are not shown to be effective.
It's good to lift earth however the weight of a star a better feat.
More like being held down by the weight of a star and barely moving. Still a nice little outlier, but being able to partially stand up, even fight back in a localized gravity field that simulated being inside a large black hole is even better than that.
Gallery
(Good thing Hulk can't even dream that either) - He did here.
Tell me what is a "Time-Storm"? I'll tell you actually, a physical barrier in the time stream that prevented Kang the Conqueror in The Incredible Hulk #135 - Descent into the Time-Storm! from traveling to 1917. Hulk never punched through the time stream in that instance, rather something physical that was happening inside the time stream.
(Void all of his hits and pound him with a couple thousand punches per second) - Pound someone, who shrugged planet busting attacks? Last time I checked Clark can't generate planet busting power.
If you please, which blunt force planet busting attack has he shrugged off? He doesn't need to create planet busting force with every punch, thousands of his most powerful strikes will get the job done.
I also noticed when Clark face opponents with high strength and durability he inevitable brawl as blitzing attacks are not shown to be effective.
He almost never goes all out, but when he does his attacks are very effective to say the least. He has destroyed Imperiex probes (team busters), one-shot Wonder Woman, defeated Doomsday Rex, Darkseid, Ultraman (his physical equal), destroyed massive space ships, and so on...
1- Absolutely nothing to do with anything? Sorry, i thought that the more hulk get angry, the more he become powerful as it was stated by stan lee.
And yes, superman is already strong enough to beat hulk, he doesn't need to amp himself.
And my point was, a person can't get angrier and angrier untill the end of time, there is a limit to anger so there is a limit to hulk's power
Yes and what does that have to do with Hulk eventually reaching his limit, when he has a higher limit than Superman who can't amp himself internally?
Depends on the versions.
Who in this thread said that Hulks anger and strength is limitless? You are literally arguing a straw man.
2-Just what is this scan supposed to prove? That Bruce banner can transform into hulk? Well, good job...I guess.
My argument still stand, since hulk didn't get his power boost against Thor, Lady hellbender, Ironman, Wolverine, Silver surfer, havoc..Etc
-Dude, if Batman can beat hulk without preps, the what about superman?
It was to prove that Bruce can go from his human form to a form that shook the entire continent just by walking, he was extremely angry and you said Hulk needs time to get angry and boost his strength, which is flat out false.
What? Hulk had his power boost in literally every fight he ever had.
LOOOOOOOOL, omg... Dude... bro... muchacho... The Batman/Hulk crossover comic is non-canon. You do realize Venom has beaten Superman in a crossover... it's not CANON.
ANd who killed hulk? 4 persons did it: Wolverine, Rulk, The abomination and i don't remember the fourth one.
Bonus: Deadpool killed Hulk when he calmed down and turned back into bruce banner.
3- Good luck with that, because hulk have already fought superman, and guess what? Superman was standing still while hulk was punching him until he grew tired and turned back into bruce banner in the Marvel vs dc crossover 1996
Wolverine never killed Hulk, Rulk killed Hulk with Banners mind but that was LoebForce Rulk who also killed a being that didn't die to a black hole but died to his punch. The Abomination also didn't exactly kill the Hulk, that was also 40 years ago, Hulk has grown in power since than to the point where he beats the crap out of Abomination so badly he covers in fear from the mere thought of facing Hulk in combat. Let me help you the fourth one was the Enchantress but again that was some 40 years ago, recently her powers couldn't even affect an angry Amadeus Cho Hulk whose much weaker than the real Hulk.
Yea, another non-canon comic.
Oh and for the information, i'm neither a fan of superman nor hulk.
I can tell by your lack of knowledge on either character and the fact that you think Batman vs Hulk crossover is a legit comic that is part of the Marvel and DC continuity.
1- You still don't get it do you? At this point, someone can easily come to the conclusion that you are trolling me.
Think about it and find it yourself before you shame yourself even more.
And who said that hulk's power is limitless? Well, every hulk's fanboy here, if you look at the previous comments, i'm not gonna quote them all.
2- No, bruce didn't shake the entire continent by walking, he just tranformed and it created a wave, it is stated nowhere that he was closed to reach the "world breaker hulk transformation".
Your scan is just showing bruce banner transforming
3-And you can "lol, bro, dude..." all you wan't, there is no such thing as non-cannon. It's not the fans who decides who is cannon or not, unless it is said to be non-cannon by the marvel and dc staffs.
And yeah, if it is stated that venom beated superman, then i'm OK with it since i'm not a fan of superman...You see i'm neutral here.
But you there, you are acting like a huge fanboy in denial.
4- Do you really feel like answering back (with condescension) everyone who disagree with you? Is it personnal? Did Stan lee paid you to defend hulk online or something? I don't understand.
No world breaker so Hulk isn't up to super and strength level and superman has a variety of other prowlers to put down hulk. Plus superman is fast enough to avoid hulk.
@zokologue: 1- You still don't get it do you? At this point, someone can easily come to the conclusion that you are trolling me.
Get what? This coming from a guy that used 2 non-canon crossovers as actual feats?
Think about it and find it yourself before you shame yourself even more.
Stop... you are just embarrassing yourself further..
And who said that hulk's power is limitless? Well, every hulk's fanboy here, if you look at the previous comments, i'm not gonna quote them all
Nobody did and fanboys are irrelevant, that's why they are fanboys.
2- No, bruce didn't shake the entire continent by walking, he just tranformed and it created a wave, it is stated nowhere that he was closed to reach the "world breaker hulk transformation".
Yes he did, you mean it created a gamma burst. Actually it did say he was reaching world breaker levels, but first taking a step and shaking the continent and threatening to break it
again
and again
and here is Amadeus Cho confirming that if he does not stop he will go into worldbreaker mode
so yea, you literally have no idea what you are talking about.
Your scan is just showing bruce banner transforming
My scan is showing Hulk going from Banner to near world breaker levels in just 2 panels before he could even finish a short sentence, you said it takes him time to get angry and stronger i showed you it happening nigh-instantaneously.
3-And you can "lol, bro, dude..." all you wan't, there is no such thing as non-cannon. It's not the fans who decides who is cannon or not, unless it is said to be non-cannon by the marvel and dc staffs.
Omg... are you new to comics? All crossover comics are non-canon... except for one crossover which is canon because it is mentioned in both the Marvel and DC continuity. Crossover comics are non canon, What If comics are non-canon, alternate universe comics are non-canon, etc... Don't be stubborn just because you were wrong and now you are making more of a clown of yourself... Ask anyone around crossovers are non-canon there is no specific need for Marvel or DC to go out their way to mention this, this has always been known. Hulk and Batman or Hulk and Superman, never actually met in canon.
But you there, you are acting like a huge fanboy in denial.
How so? And what am i denying?
4- Do you really feel like answering back (with condescension) everyone who disagree with you? Is it personnal? Did Stan lee paid you to defend hulk online or something? I don't understand.
No, most of the times i am very respectful and people respect me back. But most of the times i don't deal with people that use Batman beating Hulk as an actual argument... If Stan Lee paid me money to defend Hulk than i am doing a lousy job, because in a 2006 interview Stan Lee was asked who would he write winning in a match between Hulk and Superman and he said Hulk, but i disagree with that as i think Superman would win.
You are right about one thing, you really don't understand.
@atheistknowledge: based on what though I know you keep saying that the energy released was enough to wipe everyone and everything out, but we can only go based on what he actually did. You're assuming it could, but then why didn't it. Do you believe he has the power of a million exploding Suns?
There is no world breaker in this thread so I will not debate it. Because there is no world breaker with these rules, Clark gets it don't even without speed.
I merely commented to someone else who was debating it saying that it was refreshing to share the same opinions wth someone else about that topic, that's all. A compliment lol I'm not getting dragged into the world breaker v superman debate, especially in a thread where there is no world breaker, and even more so in a thread where Clark can't speed blitz
@atheistknowledge: based on what though I know you keep saying that the energy released was enough to wipe everyone and everything out, but we can only go based on what he actually did. You're assuming it could, but then why didn't it. Do you believe he has the power of a million exploding Suns?
Because Hulk stopped him before he did it? And because it's Marvel 616 Earth, you expect a writer to write Sentry destroying Earth and killing 98% of Marvel superheroes? You already asked me about the power of million exploding Suns and i told you i dont... It's just blowing up a planet which he already did before in his fight with Photon, you don't need the powers of million exploding Suns to do that, you don't even need the powers of one exploding Sun to do it, you need a fraction of it...
@supremegeneration: I like feats, I like calculating them, I'm not going "against them", if something can be explained better whith science then why the shit not would't we do it? Explaining the feat makes it less of an outlier, or are you trying to tell me Joe Fixit is a casual planet buster. Dessad's explanation may only be a theory, but so is Jay Garrick's explanation about Zoom's powers, yet everyone takes is as gospel, the writers in those instances were telling us something, it obviously wasn't random. And for the last time, what I'm saying isn't going against the comic, size ≠ mass, while saying that Supes isn't FTL would be going against the comics.
I never said it was casual for Joe, it's definitely an outlier, but it's unfair to say he didn't bust that if he did. I'm saying that's kind of useless to try to explain feats with science when science usually doesn't apply to them. If you want to apply science, then Hulk can't be real and there are no aliens so this battle wouldn't be happening in the first place.
@static_shock: Meh, in the actual comic Hyperion himself attributes his planet's destruction to the disruption of its axis due to the repeated incursions of Genis-Vell into the microverse, from New Thunderbolts #16 - Supreme Power.
I never said it was casual for Joe, it's definitely an outlier, but it's unfair to say he didn't bust that if he did.
I'm not saying he didn't bust that asteroid he clearly did. What I'm saying is that the feat isn't as impressive as it seems. Just because something is big that doesn't mean it's harder to destroy than something smaller. Take a neutron star for example, they are much, much smaller than a planet, heck they are even smaller than most big cities, now assume you have two characters, one who has busted a planet and another who has busted a neutron star, who would you favor? A completely uninformed reader might say "well a planet is way bigger than a neutron star, so the guy who destroyed it is stronger", this is hilariously false and we know the exact reason why because of science, It's the same principle here, both instances have to do with garvity and size, why apply science to one feat and not the other?
I'm saying that's kind of useless to try to explain feats with science when science usually doesn't apply to them. If you want to apply science, then Hulk can't be real and there are no aliens so this battle wouldn't be happening in the first place.
Science does apply to comics, to a certain degree of course, fictional leeway is perfectly normal. But comics are clearly not entirely devoid of logic all together, if something can be explained scientifically then why wouldn't we do it? By saying science doesn't apply at all, what's the point of even arguing about anything? I can take Superman's moon bust and parade it around as a multiversal feat because "science usually doesn't apply" and whatever science you throw at me simply "doesn't apply because comics". No, that's quite frankly extremely stupid. Hulk exists, so does Superman, what's your point, as I said, fictional leeway is perfectly normal, you simply can't discredit the entirety of science because there are some inconsistencies.
@atheistknowledge: ok well if you claim hulk stopped the sentry before he reached full power what's stopping superman from stopping the hulk before he gets to WWH level? Hulk was already at world war hulk level to be able to hang with the sentry. No where in the op does it say hulk starts at WWH. And it took hulk the situation of the storyline from planet hulk to get him that pissed. The op doesn't specify the situation so we can't just start with hulk the most amped he's ever been aside from WBH unless stated. Superman would make quick work of baseline hulk.
@comic_bruh777: @20damon: said-"The very reason Worldbreaker beats Superman is because of his gamma bursts. Supes is still miles faster, but he'll be taking planet busting gamma explosions to the face again and again. Superman has NEVER (not counting silver age or similar) taken such damage and just shaken it off without being stunned, dazed, knocked down, take your pick. All of those situations let the FAR superior monster that is worldbreaker get his hands on Superman and from there it is game over. That's why he has a counter to Superman's speed and without a speed advantage, Superman does lose".
No. Just, no.
I'm really curious, 20damon-what passes through your mind that justifies the things that you say?
Seriously.
After my just displaying several Superman speed feats and "vibrate to intangibility" feats in post 3529, you come right back with the falsehoods you posted. You do this in every battle where any Hulk faces a speedster; when given the speedster's feats-which are always WAAAY beyond ANY Hulk's capacity-you STILL claim Banner will do such and such to them.
SMH.
Your conceding to Superman in this thread is somewhat refreshing, but I'm not going to let you get away with the whoppers you are stating about 'Breaker beating Post Crisis/Rebirth Superman (if you didn't want to deal with it, you shouldn't have opened the can of worms yourself, FIRST).
In that attosecond feat where Superman caught an out of control, not able to "hold back his speed" Flash, later in the story, to get some privacy, the two speed up their movements beyond the people in the diner's perception to perceive. They aren't going as fast as before, but still up there. EVERYONE IS LIKE A STATUE TO THEM, so at the speeds they were going earlier, people are EVEN MORE statuary to their perceptions.This is how "Breaker would appear to Superman (show me MULTIPLE incidents of Banner doing anything REMOTELY like this when he isn't in some PIS fight where he miraculously, suddenly gets super reaction speed, but normally is dodged by the likes of Spider-Man, Black Panther, Wolverine, Matt Murdock, even lumberers like The Thing, Sasquatch, Rage and Hercules).
WHY do you think that Superman-who in another thread a user presented over 80 instances of him IMMEDIATELY implementing his super speed or blitzing-would just STAND THERE and LET Hulk hit him with "planet busting gamma explosions to the face again and again"???
WTF?
WHY do you, think, after those "vibrate to intangibility" feats I displayed do you think he would JUST STAND THERE and not use that option, and let the assaults pass harmlessly through him??
WHA---?
WHY do you think the blasts-if they miraculously DID reach him-would INSTANTLY AND FOR SURE KO a man that has, among many durability feats, withstood blistering red sun radiation blasts while inside a Sun Eater while ALSO withstanding a supernova 50 TIMES BIGGER THAN KEPPLER'S SUPERNOVA and kept moving, in Superman issue 66, six "atoms smashing" disintegration beams SIMULTANEOUSLY and kept going (trauma that affect things down to the atomic level is devastating, which is why Wonder Woman's atom splitting sword is so feared) and absorbed the half a galaxy destroying amount of ANTI sunlight from Megaddon and SMILED afterwards?
HUH?
WHY do you think that with the kind of speed Superman has he wouldn't launch all sorts of attacks on "Breaker-including the BFR options I previously mentioned-before the creature even BEGAN to THINK about moving---possibly, in the ultimate insult, grab Banner and place him in front of his own gamma blasts (the way The Man Of Steel placed Captain Marvel in front of his own magic lightning)?
I want you on record-are you saying, UNEQUIVOCABLY, that Superman, despite those speed and offensive and defensive vibrating feats I displayed has ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE to do the things to 'Breaker I've just layed out? NO CHANCE AT ALL?
Comicbruh77, in light of your comments in this thread, and the way that, even though you disagreed with me on another thread about the outcome you didn't willfully ignore feats in some outlandish fashion, I apologize for being a bit impatient with you on yet another thread. I will try to be more patient (in my defense, other users exasperated me, I took it out a bit on you).
@supremegeneration, speaking of apologies, I have a strict policy not to "throw shade" on a user unless they, rather than deal with points I make, get personal and/or are unnecessarily rude, snarky, etc. to me FIRST. I t seems I was in error in thinking you were addressing me in that manner. Sorry again.
If we address each other in the future in this or any other thread, I look forward to a civil discussion no matter what side of the issue we take.
@theonewhoknows: no worries at all I know it's difficult to read emotions through text but all is well, hopefully I didn't rub you the wrong way either. I and especially you have undoubtedly presented enough info to win the world breaker hulk vs superman debate. And while this is a WWH at most Bruce, although he doesn't start there, I think to anyone with even a remotely open mind that it is clear who wins this debate. At some point, people have their minds made up, and that's ok, but you have put plenty out there for a reasonable person to determine superman wins.
On a lighter note I've been sick and it has been fun going back and forth and killing some time with someone who will actually address facts and even share a lot of the same opinions. Good stuff!
As Hulk has reacted to Surfer and Gladiator, two beings faster than Hulk both in Superman's ballpark or above, Superman has reacted to both Flash and Zoom......same kind of feats but Superman's are better and more consistent and therefore more liable, not discounting or discrediting Hulk's reaction speed at all but in all fairness and honesty, those gamma bursts are the only thing that give Hulk a snowballs chance in hell of reacting to him, especially in a better body. And those light speed gamma bursts are simply waves of radiation which Superman has casually seen and reacted to in the form of heat vision...
Which is why after claiming Hulk has reacted to them i still made emphasis that Superman is definitely faster. The point of using those feats is to corroborate the fact Hulk might have the necessary reactionary speed to fight Clark when his speed is affected significantly. Superman has reacted to those faster people either because they aren't using their speed properly or because Superman exerted himself to his limits in order to do so when they weren't anywhere near their limit. The feats i mentioned clearly showcase Hulk naturally doing so when said characters were indeed exploiting their speed pretty damn graphically, however that's besides the point and i do agree Hulk's gamma burst is the game changer here. Anyways, the scan you posted from Superman/Batman vol.1 #2 is rather unimpressive, mainly because Superman barely needed to move and because Future Clark blatantly alerted them before shooting his eye beams, specially when someone like Superman might have already been in front of Bruce by the time he shot the heat vision, of course, parting from the fact he was already extremely close to Bruce right before Future Clark appearing.
Moreover, a direct ray of heat vision is nothing similar to the omnidirectional expanding burst of gamma radiation. Even though both travel at the speed of light (gamma rays arguably faster considering scientifically speaking Gamma Rays actually managed to escape "event horizon" out of Black Holes in Galaxy "IC 310") one is a beam and another is an actual expanding burst from all angles. It is impressive, but not as impressive as you're making it out to be.
Either way, i need to present resistance to this notion Bizarro's body being superior to Superman's. For starters, Superman has much better feats in all relevant areas. Superman claiming Bizarro "might be" stronger than him and theorizing on why he can't use that superiority doesn't make justice to the very wide repertoire of feats Superman has under his belt, specially considering the fact Superman actually one shot'd Bizarro as showcased during Superman: Man of Steel vol.1 #131 when Superman deliberately claimed Bizarro was smarter, ergo, should've have more control over his "superior" strength, thus, operating on a higher degree than average, according to Superman's theories, however that was not the case.
There's 4 other instances where Superman was simply superior to Bizarro. Superman's statements hold little to no credibility as far as evidence goes and even in the same issue, there isn't even a vaguely representation on how Superman's body was actually weaker than Bizarro's besides Superman punching Bizarro across the Earth, which is a feat Superman in his own body could've accomplished without much effort.
And and Ultraviolet Rays...
Not entirely sure how this is relevant to speed. He has super vision on different degrees including infra-red and zoomed vision. He could've easily spot several points aiming at the candidate for presidency instead of actually perceiving them before they spotted the candidate in question, of course, if that was the purpose of mentioning this instance.
He's always going to be able to see and evaluate the exact level of radiation around him and will instantly be made aware of the changes at light speed before they hit him using his lightspeed thinking/perception speed...
I do not agree. Superman might be able to "measure" time between nanoseconds, but he hasn't showcased anything remotely close to this speed as far as actions and combat speed goes. He may be able to perceive light and be aware it is around him for example, but that doesn't mean he can react accordingly, specially when he has failed to do so many times before, including under the same writer of the "heat vision instance" previously cited by you, as showcased in Superman/Batman vol.1 #1 when Superman literally took a Kyrptonite bullet right into his chest because "reasons".
If he actually had the reactionary speed you claim he has, he shouldn't have had any trouble perceiving, analyzing and concluding on the fact he needed to dodge the bullet, which was obviously made out of kryptonite, but instead, he was aware it was a bullet, probably arrived on the conclusion it was a weird looking bullet, perhaps made out of kryptonite and still was unable to move out of the way before it hit him. I'm not saying Superman shouldn't nor couldn't be as fast as being able to do exactly what he didn't do, but i do tend to fall behind the notion he simply does not operate on this caliber consistently enough to claim he will here. I'm expecting "CIS" or "PIS" claims regarding this instance, but you actually used Loeb's writing under the same story arc, within the same volume, right after this issue, as a legit argument. Needless to say, i do have a rather alarming amount of instances corroborating the exact same claim and CIS is completely applicable on scenarios.
Not to mention, he can combat the Gamma Radiation with his own Solar Radiation using heat vision if nothing else and his heat vision is pretty strong
I'm not following. Regardless, i hope you're aware that gamma ray bursts are literally the most energetic and luminous event since the Big Bang and this was confirmed and previously stated by NASA itself. Here's the citation from: http://missionscience.nasa.gov/ems/12_gammarays.html.
Gamma-ray bursts are the most energetic and luminous electromagnetic events since the Big Bang and can release more energy in 10 seconds than our Sun will emit in its entire 10-billion-year expected lifetime! Gamma-ray astronomy presents unique opportunities to explore these exotic objects. By exploring the universe at these high energies, scientists can search for new physics, testing theories and performing experiments that are not possible in Earth-bound laboratories.
Superman isn't heating anything, specially considering gamma rays are infinitely hotter than Superman's heat vision to begin with. The scans have already been posted by @20damon from Incredible Hulk vol.1 #446; Hulk was literally melting a device configured to smother nuclear detonations, which surpass the heat of the sun by millions of degrees. Heat vision is useless against someone who is already several times hotter than it. I sincerely do not understand the purpose of the scan you posted along with the argument.
not saying he can cancel it out or even withstand a clash between their green and red energies......he can dampen the damage by using his solar radiation as an atmosphere from the gamma waves in the form of a cone or a concentrated beam...cus he only has to follow the trajectory of the beam so he can travel through his own radiation while slightly shielding himself from the gamma.......basically shooting and flying, he can fly through the gamma already, he can just fight the impact of the burst by shooting heat vision...after all, his heat pierced a barrier the force of a black hole event horizon
I don't think heat vision will do anything remotely relevant to a force objectively stronger and objectively much hotter than it, let alone on a massively superior scale and if i'm completely sincere with you, i think this might be a stretch on Superman's capabilities. Either way, i feel i need to let you know that Hulk's Gamma Burst isn't just gamma radiation, considering he also has cosmic energy within his being since he absorbed a gigantic amount of it back in World War Hulks: Incredible Hulk vol.1 #610 so even if you extrapolate and overuse heat vision as a counter measure, it is not scientifically nor speculatively reasonable for you to use it.
We all know how wide his vision goes....Simple as that.....it may not completely shield him from the impact of the shock wave, but it'll definitely shield him from the gamma radiation. Lastly, Superman has been under the constant gravitational force, atmospheric pressure and unbridled radiation of a Red Sun Eater, a mini black hole, as well as a worm hole while being fully capable of precise motor functions and was able to casually carry a bomb, toss a ship and shatter a planet busting asteroid while under those stresses...
It will not, and honestly this is the least expected counter-argument for the gamma burst i've ever read. The Sun Eater didn't have any gravitational force acting inside of him and it is simply a Nebula, a cloud of dust in space. It consumes stars by draining them, not exactly eating them nor overpowering them through "black hole-lite" forces. I do agree it had red sun radiation inside of it because it was blatantly stated in the scans, but i think you're adding the gravitational forces without any fundament whatsoever, perhaps a conjecture?
Superman flying away from a mini black hole isn't a strength nor a durability feat. It was clearly stated by him he felt like he was being teared apart and the only reason he managed to flew away was because he could fly faster than the speed of light, which by Stephen Hawking's own admission, it's the only thing you need in order to escape "event horizon" point, specially since decaying gamma rays have been able to burp outside of a black hole as i previously state it. I know you're an skeptic user so you're going to look up for this. Either way, my point is Superman resisting the force of a black hole is more a speed feat than it is a durability feat, and any feat in outer space allows him to fly faster than the speed of light. I have yet to see any feat remotely close to light speed while on Earth or a similar atmospheric scenario.
I'm not entirely sure how you arrived to the conclusion in the last statement. He was in the wormhole, blatantly claimed he was lucky he survived the trip and afterwards started busting meteorites. Not only wormholes aren't black holes, both scientifically and conceptually speaking, but the previous explanation stands as well. Black holes are not necessarily feats for strength, but actually speed.
.....there is no reason to suggest that the medium of friction would be any greater than what he had to move through during all of those instances.
Of course is greater, there's absolutely no medium affecting Superman's speed there. Gravity is not something that generates friction, but air, particles, even atoms of oxygen generate friction. Superman has been aggravatingly affected by friction in the past and the best example of this is Superman failing to tag Flash physically, recurring to heat vision (which moved faster than him) and also failing like showcased during Flash vol.2 #209. Likewise, he was affected by it to the point of dropping tears and being completely pulled back by air during Superman vol.1 #709.
Medium does affect Superman. A Black Hole's gravity isn't a medium and only speed is necessary to overwhelm the "event horizon", which is great for Superman, but not exactly applicable for this particular fight. Specially when actual force of detonation will be applied on Superman instead of a conceptual-constant.
I have to agree with you on this, even though Superman has shown the ability to operate at light speeds outside of anomalies and the ability to function inside of anomalies, he has not shown the ability to operate above light speed while inside of an anomaly....while Hulk himself is not an anomaly, he generates powerful light speed waves of radiation, technically you have to be faster than light to move around in a black hole let alone escape one and shock waves are a bit more push than pull......either way, I'm gonna stop comparing Hulk to a black hole.....my point is, that Superman has feats to suggest that the shock waves Hulk generates won't be powerful enough to slow him down enough for Hulk to react to on equal ground.....especially if Superman implements his heat vision to pierce through Hulks gamma burst...
Actually, Superman has been inside of black holes and he has popped out of them precisely because he could fly at higher speeds than the speed of light. However, the point of discrepancy between your and my notion is that Superman cannot operate as fast within a medium, which in this particular match DOES apply to both combatants. I'm going to wait on your take about heat vision because i already mentioned why it won't work. Either way, i do not agree Superman will simply fly through the burst seemingly unaffected by it, the fact Manchester Black, normal punches, and barely "worldwide catastrophe causing throws" have been able to overpower Superman either mid flight or standing still, i find it extremely difficult to contemplate Superman doing such thing.
It does....since it's basically Superman Inception, I'll disregard it as a solid feat to quantify his physical capabilities....anyway regarding my last statement.....
Alright.
I mean that Superman would be able to blitz WB Hulk either by fighting through the atmospheric pressure or by moving fast enough to travel between the gamma waves, he already stated he can measure the time between nanoseconds
I don't see Superman traveling between gamma waves. How exactly do you dodge something that is moving from an epicenter in a partially spheric nature? Regardless, i agree Superman can measure the time between nanoseconds, his brain is just that powerful, but he certainly can't fight that fast and has never been able to do so.
here's him holding conversation, flying or otherwise reacting in literal fractions of nanoseconds, "the briefest of nanoseconds"....
I think this instance from Superman vol.2 #200 has some context and is not as "black and white" as you're making it out to be. For example, the fact both of them are traveling through time and have actually moved through several years and moments within brief moments without any indication of variation in travel speed is one of the things that actually makes me question the instance. They traveled, got involved and fought between time periods and kept traveling and nothing indicated the needed to accelerated nor that they did unnecessarily before entering the nanosecond blank space in time, hell, even Superman was surprised he was in a blank space. Moreover, it was stated it was a pocket dimension, if they stopped moving they would have been staying in a blank space in time, not that the pocket dimension itself was supposed to be perceivable for only 1 or some nanoseconds. In my humble opinion, i think "the briefest of nanoseconds" was meant to imply that anyone living inside the time events was going to be unable or able to perceive those moments just for fractions of nanoseconds, but for someone actually traveling through time, the blank space was flat out perceivable.
Superman could honestly just bull rush in order to close the distance by moving several times faster than light as he closes in like he did here with this "antimatter burst" baby
That was a statement. I don't see anything more than a vague statement about how much time Superman has to solve something. Not trying to be unnecessarily skeptic, but Superman does tend to overreact or exaggerate as far as his statements goes.
And considering it takes 1 nanosecond for light to travel 1 foot, Superman should have no problem doing just that under the pressure of WB Hulks gamma waves if they even hit him..... but once Superman gets within hitting range and that "sponge" gets squeezed upon impact... Superman would have less than a nanosecond to react before being subject to the pressure of world breaking shock waves due to any contact made triggering the gamma burst explosion which would be required to slow him down ...I'm pretty confident in Superman's ability to react to the light speed shock wave... however whether or not he would be blown back from the gamma shock wave is questionable. If he isn't blown back, he still has enough time and speed before Hulk can even land a punch even if we are under the impression that Hulk has hyper sonic+ reaction speed, I will not entertain the notion that Hulk can consistently react at light speeds or will even once during this battle. Not without some heavy proof....I'll also need to see him reacting to Silver Surfer at light speed just for reference....
All of this of course if we actually assume Superman did travel that fast on all those instance, which i do not. As per the instance, are you referring to the "track and tag a faster than the speed of light Silver Surfer" or "tag Silver Surfer moving as a ball of energy" instance? Either way, the latter happened in a very classic comic back in Tales to Astonish #92, as per the former, it takes a little bit more of analysis... Take this post as the explanation to it and PLEASE, ignore the apparent tone of the post, obviously, this was not meant for you when i first posted it:
"The instance from Infinity Crusade #4 and the whole relevant context about it is that Surfer became an intergalactic ballistic missile capable of obliterating an entire planet on impact and was moving fast enough to move in space from stellar body to another in seconds, hell, someone even states Surfer is about 30 seconds from impact and he was quite far from the planet in question, if he managed to close that gap from the sun to the planet's moon in that time, he was going pretty f*cking fast, here are all the scans relevant to the instance...
Gallery
Now i need to make emphasis on a part of the third scan to give you a better picture of just how far Silver Surfer was from the target and just how fast he should have been moving if he was just about 30 seconds from impact. He was standing right next to that solar system's star, Sol, absorbing its energies to become ridiculously powerful and the moon in question was the one from the blueish planet... As you can notice (or i hope you can because i'm seriously questioning your capabilities now) the star and the planet in question have a really significant gap between them...
Either it was insanely far or just far, Norrin arriving in half a minute to this planet is a very impressive speed feat for Hulk, considering he was still able to keep track, calculate and throw a projectile with his own arm fast enough to hit Silver Surfer and correct his trajectory, there's no doubt Hulk's perception speed, reactionary and combat speed is far greater than ignorantly presumed."
The first paragraph was mostly raw information so I have nothing much to disagree on you there (which is why I didn't quote it), but I have to wonder how much you think Superman in a superior body would be hindered by the radiation, personally, his blitz speeds are far beyond what I've seen Hulk react to and even if he were slowed down solely due to constant planetary force being applied to him, he has shown to be able to move faster than the force of impact could reach him, I know it will slow him down when it hits, but it the gamma bursts themselves seem as if they are expelled in quantified and timed "bursts"....passively there is raw destructive radiation being expelled non stop, but the big explosions while consistent aren't unceasing, Fing and the others didn't have all their skin blown off until Hulk and Betty's initial clash ..... that said, Superman would be able to withstand that non-explosive atmosphere without losing the speed required to blitz Hulk....however, he would get thrown off and slowed down decisively by Hulk triggering a burst he couldn't dodge or escape....
Alright. I don't think Superman slowed down is superior to what Hulk is capable of reacting to. Hulk has been able to react to hypersonic speed battlefield removal attempts by Gladiator in mere instants. Has been able to outright tag Silver Surfer traveling as a ball of energy once and flat out track his trajectory while rocketing several times the speed of light when he was relatively close to him. There's a few feats that do provide Hulk with a decent amount of speed to fight a Superman which can't use his speed properly. Even if Superman is still faster than Hulk while hindered, that doesn't change the fact Hulk will still be much more superior strength and durability-wise and without the proper caliber of speed, Superman can't close that gap, much less when a powerful healing factor is also keeping possible damage out of the question. I fail to see how Superman will move faster than the force, specially when the force itself, by concept, moves at light speed and Superman has absolutely no instance moving at similar speeds when there's a medium that creates friction. In space, that's another story.
The bursts are not constant and in my opinion World Breaker Hulk works like a "sponge" of some sort. Every time the burst is released is because he channels it either by touching something (in this case using his feet) or by something hitting him (Exchanging punches with Red She Hulk), however, that doesn't counter the fact Superman MUST hit him in order to attack him with anything remotely relevant at this point and every time he punches Hulk, the burst will be released and i'm pretty damn confident in claiming Superman can't just punch and dodge at light speed, ergo, he's not dealing with the burst nor is he dealing with a character that is already much more physically imposing as well without counting a very powerful regeneration factor.
Your last statement seems to be agreeing with my notion but perhaps i'm not getting your point properly. Could you please corroborate this? Either way, your scan is indeed canon, but the instance was a dream session showcased in the giant-sized special Superman: Where is thy Sting?. The scan you posted is from the Part Three: The End of all Things and Superman wasn't your regular Superman anymore, but actually a much older Superman (billions of years older to be precise) and on top of it, much weaker considering he lived up to the point the Sun became a Red Giant and pulled the Earth much closer to it due to the gravitational pull, meaning he was receiving massive amounts of red sunlight and on a higher scale considering it burned through the atmosphere.
This was confirmed previously to Superman engaging in a psychological battle with the Embodiment of Death (Superman's Representation that is, considering Death in DC is Death of the Endless) which is the scan you posted with the alien looking green behemoth crushing Superman. Either way, Death itself claims nothing really happened and the fight itself was Superman fighting his inner demons and the guilt he felt after his death.
On top of everything, this was another dream session inside a dream session considering Superman once again wakes up in his apartment, with Lois Lane asking what is he doing standing in the middle of the night out of the bed and Clark confirms for a second time everything was a dream, and everything was meant to be for a "good" dream, probably meaning he no longer feels guilt about what happened.
I know is all text and text, but context is primordial for me, specially if i'm arguing with you as i know you care about these things as much as i do. Hope this clears some things up.
@atheistknowledge: ok well if you claim hulk stopped the sentry before he reached full power what's stopping superman from stopping the hulk before he gets to WWH level? Hulk was already at world war hulk level to be able to hang with the sentry. No where in the op does it say hulk starts at WWH. And it took hulk the situation of the storyline from planet hulk to get him that pissed. The op doesn't specify the situation so we can't just start with hulk the most amped he's ever been aside from WBH unless stated. Superman would make quick work of baseline hulk.
I am assuming Hulk is at WWH levels here already. Hulk was at WWH levels during the entire event, yes. The OP says that no WBH, so i automatically assume you can use any other incarnation of the Hulk so i use WWH, besides the Hulk after WWH as in Savage/Indestructible Hulk already operated at or very near WWH levels of power because of the permanent amp he got on planet Sakaar. There is no such thing as baseline Hulk, that doesn't exist.
@20damon: That was absolutely the longest, most unnecessary, bogus attempt to deny the undeniable I have ever seen. It did nothing whatsoever to justify a being who couldn't avoid MUCH slower people like Wolverine, Cyclops, Thing, and others in battle being able to do ANYTHING against a man who can CASUALLY strike a streaking Zoom, blitz Ultra Man and Superwoman SIMULTANEOUSLY, blitz Kryptonians Zod and Faoura SIMULTANEOUSLY, and CASUALLY grab a blitzing Wally West Flash that was zipping around Kal http://static.comicvine.com/api/image/original/2630108-t6a5nc.jpg. It did NOTHING to explain why Superman couldn't dodge the blasts, or vibrate to intangibility and let the gamma blasts pass through him. It did NOTHING to explain why heat vision that can block freakin' PARALLAX's blasts can't block gamma blasts. It did NOTHING to explain why someone with the durability feats I mentioned (with more on standby) would FOR SURE not be able to withstand gamma blasts if they miraculously DID hit Kal. It did NOTHING to explain why heat vision potent enough to repair reality couldn't be focused through Banner's retinas (as Superman did to Manchester Black and Shrapnel) and fry his brains to ash.
And on and on and on.
If you can't explain something YOURSELF, and you have to depend on someone ELSE's spiel-'cause it states something you desperately want to believe though it makes no sense-that should tell you something.
So once again, I ask you DIRECTLY---are you saying, UNEQUIVOCABLY, that Superman, despite those speed and offensive and defensive vibrating feats I displayed has ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE to do the things to 'Breaker I've just layed out? Has NO CHANCE to win? NO CHANCE AT ALL?
Remember-"Liking" a character better has nothing to do with WHO WOULD WIN.
@20damon: That was absolutely the longest, most unnecessary, bogus attempt to deny the undeniable I have ever seen. It did nothing whatsoever to justify a being who couldn't avoid MUCH slower people like Wolverine, Cyclops, Thing, and others in battle being able to do ANYTHING against a man who can CASUALLY strike a streaking Zoom, blitz Ultra Man and Superwoman SIMULTANEOUSLY, blitz Kryptonians Zod and Faoura SIMULTANEOUSLY, and CASUALLY grab a blitzing Wally West Flash that was zipping around Kal http://static.comicvine.com/api/image/original/2630108-t6a5nc.jpg. It did NOTHING to explain why Superman couldn't dodge the blasts, or vibrate to intangibility and let the gamma blasts pass through him. It did NOTHING to explain why heat vision that can block freakin' PARALLAX's blasts can't block gamma blasts. It did NOTHING to explain why someone with the durability feats I mentioned (with more on standby) would FOR SURE not be able to withstand gamma blasts if they miraculously DID hit Kal. It did NOTHING to explain why heat vision potent enough to repair reality couldn't be focused through Banner's retinas (as Superman did to Manchester Black and Shrapnel) and fry his brains to ash.
And on and on and on.
If you can't explain something YOURSELF, and you have to depend on someone ELSE's spiel-'cause it states something you desperately want to believe though it makes no sense-that should tell you something.
So once again, I ask you DIRECTLY---are you saying, UNEQUIVOCABLY, that Superman, despite those speed and offensive and defensive vibrating feats I displayed has ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE to do the things to 'Breaker I've just layed out? Has NO CHANCE to win? NO CHANCE AT ALL?
Remember-"Liking" a character better has nothing to do with WHO WOULD WIN.
I know. That's why i give Superman a win against any other version of Hulk. Worldbreaker stomps him though. To clarify: That's absolutely what i am saying. Superman loses 10/10 vs that Hulk and he loses badly. All of your points are addressed in the 2 posts above. It did plenty. Superman has never in his history taken planet busting blasts to the face and shrugged them off as if they were nothing. (not since silver age bullshit). Heat vision with repair reality what? Wtf are you smoking. I've told you, Worldbreaker STOMPS Superman, all other version lose to Superman. You seem to be unable to accept it. Casually strike Zoom.... sure buddy. Keep smoking whatever it is you're smoking. If you can't drop the issue to stop derailing the thread, i'll GLADLY CaV the battle.
No world breaker so Hulk isn't up to super and strength level and superman has a variety of other prowlers to put down hulk. Plus superman is fast enough to avoid hulk.
For fun and giggles, here's Superman repairing reality again with his bare hands and super friction
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/39236/878455-super_reality_fixing.jpg and one shot heat vison KOing Despero,a being of great power and density http://pm1.narvii.com/6077/c7c500a960480e806e75f4b5b4e85b8137125254_hq.jpg. So the question is, what are YOU "smoking" to make such a silly comment when the above scans show your scoffing and skepticism about my FACTS is ABYSMALLY wrong, and displays you have no idea what you're talking about regarding Superman's capabilities? Someone with the above abilities is going to be "stomped" by a slow brick like "Breaker (WAAAY slower than Zoom who Kal CASUALLY STRUCK above) who's gamma blasts are not more of a trauma to tank than the half a galaxy destroying (a far greater impact than "PLANET busting") amount of ANTI sunlight that Kal absorbed and SMILED afterwards, who Kal can otherwise phase through the blasts, and who is too slow to stop Supes from BFRing in several different ways if it came to that?
Sure.
Thank you for allowing me to get you on record. It reveals you once and for all as one of THOSE posters: willfully ignores evidence-no matter how demonstrable-just to get a result they want because they "like" a character better, or won't concede the obvious in order to "save face". You sealed the deal-just like in that "Hulk vs Bizarro and Wonder Woman" thread-by going so far as to refuse to admit that Superman, like that duo, has ANY chance to win. CATAGORICALLY ridiculous.
@comic_bruh777 the above behavior is what I once again, even when you disagree with me, want to thank you for NOT engaging in.
@theonewhoknows: of course dealing with people like that gets you nowhere. Oh and btw if it's not too much trouble what issues are those scans from? They're really cool
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