@supergoku17 said:
@termiteone4ever said:
@atheistknowledge said:
Under these conditions, Hulk still loses, all the problems.
I see you like jumping in on the bandwagon .
Hulk vs Superman
@supergoku17:linsanel_Doctor said:
@comic_bruh777: honestly, just block supergoku and Supermanforever said:
Hulk fanboy and superman butthurt from screwattack. So dont even bother arguuing with him over superman vs hulk debates. He is cancer
Indeed.
Stimul said:
Lets put some things into perspective.
Clark held a magnetic field that contained a black hole that was the same size as "a speck of dust" and he struggled.
Yes, let us INDEED "put some things in perspective". The Black Hole "the same size as a speck of dust" was powerful enough TO DESTROY A SOLAR SYSTEM according to the JLA's sophisticated instrumentation http://i.imgur.com/GGrpYL0.jpg Is someone really stooping so low that they would try to dilute/deny/dismiss how UNBELIEVABLY strong a person is that can hold back that much entropy-even for a nanosecond, much less for as long as Kal did-in THE PALM OF THEIR HAND?
SMH.
And Superman dealing with Black Holes is old hat to him, as demonstrated here
and here, even though the Black Hole caught Supes by SURPRISE, in an AMBUSH http://imgur.com/a/ky4oY The WEAKER N52 Superman had no problem with them either, withstanding being in one http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142337/4138017-4132605-untitled1%5B1%5D.png then having the strength to escape it, PLUS flying sixty days straight from another solar system back to our universe-withstanding the incredible pressures, vacuum, and multiple kinds of lethal radiation including GAMMA radiation-with no solar recharge of any kind http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142337/4282416-kal+flies+from+endless+space+to+saturn+in+2+months+without+any+sunlight.pngfor good measure. Again, the WEAKER N52 Supes did that (not to mention his incredible "Bench Press The Weight Of The Earth With No Sunlight For Five Days Straight" feat https://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/responsive/embedded/any/desktop/2016/03/18/635938666337623312-812201231_SupermanBenchPress.jpg )...so the notion that Hulk has some kind of edge in this area is CATAGORICALLY false.
People trying to diminish Superman love to show the shadow moon scan---but refuse to show feats like THIS moon breaking incident http://imgur.com/a/Qe6Gv or this feat, where the Man Of Steel CASUALLY one shot destroys a giant meteor big enough to destroy the Earth http://i.imgur.com/b6ISW3b.jpg or these one after the other uninhabitted planet destroying strikes http://imgur.com/a/Vl9NQ ---somehow, in their biased minds, that ONE shadow moon incident somehow overrides all these other feats. In other words, the "Heads I Win, Tails You Lose" game of evidence acceptance; anything showing Kal supreme is willfully ignored, but even a SINGLE incident showing him sub par is the GOSPEL TRUTH.
Double SMH.
In terms of Earth moving, mysteriously this incident of Superman (with Hal Jordan Green Lantern forming a construct for Supes to use to grip the planet) moving the Earth against the competing force of Starbreaker http://imgur.com/a/yuOgV isn't ever mentioned by Superman lowballers; and someone stated the following dreck: "Hulk punch through time barrier (something that normal Clark not even dream)"...Superman doesn't have to "dream" about "punching through time barriers" since he did that on his way to punching the ultimate abstract being, Death http://imgur.com/a/ZNmPM ---not to mention where the blows from his fight with Earth Two Superman caused all sorts of havoc to the Time/Space continuum.
You would think people would put certain assertions in the form of QUESTIONS, so they wouldn't look so bad when they are later proved so ABYSMALLY wrong.
Triple SMH.
As the above shows---Silver Age Superman doesn't need to be brought into anything; Post Crisis-and even New 52 Kal-will do just fine.
comic_bruh777 said:---"Anyway, I'm at least glad that the years of listening to people debate who is better between hulk and superman are over. Superman won. Now the threads are no speed blitzing or speed equalized so at least there has been some head way. Superman".
Just so.
As usual. As ALWAYS.
SUPERMAN WINS.
Based on....?
@atheistknowledge said:
That was Sentry releasing enough power according to the write to destroy the Earth and kill everyone and everything around him.
Yeah, but said power only destroyed a section of New York, though. Pak stated that Sentry was powerful enough to destroy everyone and everything around him, not that he was powerful enough to destroy the Earth. You went a little too extreme there. Either way, Sentry expended all of his energy before he was immediately knocked out, and like I said before, he only destroyed a portion of New York.
The one time Sentry destroyed a planet was when he fought Genis-Vell in the Microverse. Yttrium. Even then, it was combo of energy from the both of them, not just the Sentry.
Lets put some things into perspective.
Let's.
Clark held a magnetic field that contained a black hole that was the same size as "a speck of dust" and he struggled.
No he didn't, he held an actual miniature black hole, sorry to burst your bubble. Here is the full instance from JLA #77 - Stardust Memories.
Gallery
Superman says "It's breaking though it's magnetic field.", and what do we see afterwards, in the very next panel? Space being warped as the black hole releases. Clark then after grabbing the black hole continues by stating "Got it... Before it fully released!", what does that tell us? That the black hole was in the process of fully releasing. Supes didn't wrap his hand around a magnetic field, the magnetic field was deteriorating, releasing the black hole, Supes contained it and the black hole fully released in his fist. This is hilariously obvious and only requires basic reading comprehension skills.
Afterwards, as the Green Lantern-Superman duo approaches a wormhole, The Atom says "From what I saw of the Mnemon's containment device, it was essentially an electromagnetic generator. If you and Green Lantern can create a strong enough magnetic field, you can hold the gravity and memories in check!", Supes then adds "I can generate static electricity... In tremendous quantities...", John helps Clark create the required magnetic field and says "And I can apply the magnetism to corral it into a field". All of this exchange proves that there was no magnetic field containing the black hole, that's precisely the reason why they had to create a new one from scratch. Finally, after successfully creating the required magnetic field Clark before disposing of the black hole says "It worked. The pressure let up just enough", providing even further credence to the fact that the black hole was previously uncontained, since as soon as they generated a new magnetic field he was relieved of the immense pressure and gravitational effects that were giving him trouble earlier, if the original magnetic field was there, why was he straining so much? Answer, because it wasn't.
Hulk not only held open a black hole he said he could "hold it forever!"
That's from The Defenders #3 - Four Against the Gods and that's clearly not a black hole... Sigh.
Gallery
Dr. Strange says "By the Gods! A hole--In the very fabric of this macrocosm!". Black holes are not actual "holes" in the very fabric of space-time, they warp it, yes, but they aren't actual holes. That's only the first clue, also you'll notice that the hole isn't circular, or black for that matter, as are most fictional black holes depicted, it has more the shape of a tear rather than the black circle that would be expected. Silver Surfer continues by saying "Hold! Something is happening--Happening to space itself! It's thickening, becoming nearly solid-- And it's begun to swirl! It's become a maelstrom! And it's sucking us down into the hole!", several things wrong with this, first off, black holes don't do anything to space other than bend it, they don't make it thicker and they certainly don't create whirlpools, and secondly black holes don't suck things like a maelstrom or a cosmic vacuum, they behave like a normal object with the same mass would, only after you get dangerously close to the event horizon do things change drastically.
After the group has started getting drawn into to "hole" Namor notices something and says "The Surfer's board--It has not moved! This other-dimensional maelstrom must only affect living beings!", since when have black holes been picky at what type of matter they affect? I'll tell you, since never. After Hulk inevitably falls and reaches the "hole" he exclaims "Stuff turns solid at the center!", again since when is a black hole's even horizon solid, since never. Also, Hulk never held open this tear in space, it was never even remotely hinted at that it was trying to close, the malestorm can even be seen after the group escaped it, Hulk was simply resisting the pull of the maelstrom, like someone could hold onto the edges of a doorway when being pushed. Moreover in the fifth panel of the third page you can see that Dr. Strange, Silver Surfer and Barbara are all partially into the "hole", their legs mostly, so unless they all have enough durability to resist being ripped apart from a black hole, this isn't a black hole. And lastly, after the whole ordeal Dr. Strange says "Now our previous problem confront as anew: Escape from this dimension, by slightly safer methods!", meaning that that tear in space would have most likely transported them to another dimension, something that black holes, again, don't do.
So, to reiterate, this wasn't a black hole because:
- It was never mentioned as being one, Dr. Strange clearly referred to it as a tear in the very fabric of space-time.
- It wasn't circular.
- It wasn't black.
- It affected space, thickening it.
- It created a maelstrom that pulled matter from afar like a vacuum.
- It only affected living beings.
- It's horizon was solid.
- Normal humans such as Barbara survived being partially into it.
- By Dr. Strange's own admission it would have transported them to a different dimension.
Oh, and there is also the fact that Hulk never held it open. Seriously, this is the single most un-black hole feat in comic book history.
Clark destroyed a shadow moon and knock out himself.
People always forget that the moon was moving at a speed of 7,614,000 km/h, that would mean it was producing 1.643×10^35 Joules of energy, or over 39 quintillion megatons of TNT, or enough energy to completely obliterate the Earth 661 times over, and he took that to the face, he was up and running on the very next panel like nothing happened. Regardless, here is Supes from Superman: Lex 2000 destroying a moon of Saturn, probably Rhea given the narration and the way it's drawn.
Joe Fixit (the weakest Hulk's incarnation) destroyed an asteroid twice the size of Earth and didn't even damaged.
There are no asteroids twice the size of Earth, objects this massive are planets, they are spheres because of gravity, the biggest asteroid ever is Ceres, and it's considered a dwarf planet, and is of course round. So, for this asteroid which Hulk smashed to be the shape of an asteroid, it would have to have an extremely low density, even if we assume the least dense material in existence, it's mass would still be enough to force it into a sphere. Meaning whatever Hulk smashed would be comparably easy to destroy. Also, what I'm saying isn't going against the comic or the in-universe physics in any way, only the size of the asteroid was ever stated, never it's mass, and the very obvious fact that planets, moons, stars and everything in between are spheres in the Marvel universe is all the evidence you need.
From Marvel Comics Presents #52.
Gallery
Clark moving a planet with help of Diana, J'onn and Kyle Ryner.
Ahem...
Gallery
A-single-drop-of-sweat. Also, I find it funny that he had claimed he can bench press a planet in the Pre-Flaspoint continuity, in Superman #705 - Grounded, Part Four: Visitation Rights
Hulk overcoming a field of pure energy with enough power to change the orbit of a planet by himself.
Good for him.
And here, Hulk punch through time barrier (something that normal Clark not even dream)...
Good thing Hulk can't even dream that either, he didn't do it out of pure strength alone, he had a piece of Chronal Metal in his fist, a substance with time-altering properties.
Gallery
Clark faster? And that is going to do what against the Hulk? Speedblitzing against foes with high durability isn't effective. Hulk would just get madder and the madder he gets the stronger AND MORE DURABLE he gets.
What's he going to do? Avoid all of his hits and pound him with a couple thousand punches per second, rinse and repeat. "Speedblitzing against foes with high durability isn't effective" I guess that's why The Flash can't one shot White Martians, or Mongul, or an alternate version of Wonder Woman, or damage the Anti-Monitor... Oh wait, he can, seriously pick up a comic book.
I still didn't show Hulk's healing factor... And i will not because his strength/durability feats is more than enough, to defeat Clark.
Sure.
@20damon: It is theoretically possible to travel faster than light using an Alcubierre drive, basically expanding the space behind of you while compressing it from the other side, bending space-time. And what is Desaad's theory of how Superman flies?
Please try and do the most basic of research next time. Also, it was confirmed to be twice the size of Earth not Mars... That is a fact, but it's mass isn't. I'm not "assuming" anything, you can't assume science, if science can't explain something you go back to the drawing board, but if it works it works, the law of gravity didn't just forget to go to work that day because a big asteroid appeared. Planets are round in the Marvel universe, so are stars, and moons and everything else that should be. By scientifically explaining the feat I'm making it less of an outlier. Please try to be less of an inexplicable salt pile next time, it's annoying.
The idea that Worldbreaker Hulk could "stomp" someone he has NO CHANCE OF TOUCHING is absurd. Superman has on panel nanosecond, fraction of a nanosecond http://imgur.com/a/Kizn3 attosecond http://www.geeksaresexy.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/sm_709_dylux_-9-copy-e1300679300858.jpghttp://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130781/3556932-1976765855-26290.jpg-this "catch an out of control, unable to "hold back" his speed Flash" incident has been confirmed as an attosecond feat by the writer of the story Chris Roberson) and faster than advanced ALIEN thoughts combat speed http://imgur.com/a/bDvt6-along with his JLA teammates who are also capable of this, Supes formulated, discussed, and executed plans/actions before his opponents could move. These are velocities that ANY version of Hulk has no chance of matching (wishful thinking, and/or passionately claiming he does means nothing). Superman could also vibrate to intangibility, making any punches Hulk threw pass harmlessly through Kal similar to these incidents
Meanwhile, Superman can strike Hulk at will, scores of times before the brute realized it, match his vibrational frequency then counter vibrate Banner to oblivion (as Kal has done to Darkseid and an omniverse threatening planet), rush BFR him into a Black Hole, The Source Wall, The Phantom Zone, throw him into the sun at light speed, or just place him into space and let him float and rot. Doesn't matter how durable "Breaker is, it won't help him overcome being counter vibrated or BFR'D.
And if Superman's speed is "equalized" (which is a tacit admission that Supes has to be nerfed in some way to give Hulk a chance) even "Breaker STILL couldn't "stomp" Superman. His freeze breath in pellet form has pushed back Darkseid and frozen his equal Bizarro in place. His hotter than the sun heat vision has matched the absolute zero cold level (the point of which molecules are rendered immobile) then overpowered Captain Cold's weapon, disrupted the molecules of a ghost like opponent, blocked blasts by Parallax, and repaired a rift in reality itself. If Superman shot his heat vision through Banner's pupils and into his brain (like he did to Manchester Black and Shrapnel) I doubt even 'Breaker could UTTERLY shrug off his brain being fried by something potent enough to repair reality---hence, no "stomp", if a win DID happen, would commence.
The Hulk-ANY version, ESPECIALLY if Kal has the use of his full powers-simply CANNOT beat Superman.
It really is that simple.
@darkhoudini said:
@20damon: It is theoretically possible to travel faster than light using an Alcubierre drive, basically expanding the space behind of you while compressing it from the other side, bending space-time. And what is Desaad's theory of how Superman flies?
Please try and do the most basic of research next time. Also, it was confirmed to be twice the size of Earth not Mars... That is a fact, but it's mass isn't. I'm not "assuming" anything, you can't assume science, if science can't explain something you go back to the drawing board, but if it works it works, the law of gravity didn't just forget to go to work that day because a big asteroid appeared. Planets are round in the Marvel universe, so are stars, and moons and everything else that should be. By scientifically explaining the feat I'm making it less of an outlier. Please try to be less of an inexplicable salt pile next time, it's annoying.
Yes, obviously however you should save the big words and consider the effects of him flying at lightspeed in earth's atmosphere would have. I wasn't contesting that he COULD fly faster, but the consequences. So please, stop trying to play yourself smarter than you actually are.
@comic_bruh777 said:
@atheistknowledge: oh come on hulk reverted willingly?? I don't think so. Also based on what was the sentry more powerful than superman there? It was stated that he was releasing enough power to destroy earth and kill everyone on it yet most of new York was all good so the showing itself debunks that statment. There are many outlandish claims about the sentry that are just not true that's like buying into the power of a million exploding suns
Yes. If not then explain to me how Hulk exhausted himself and ran out of power, only to literally SECONDS LATER revert back into his Hulk form more powerful than even before where he almost broke the continent and possibly even the world? Obviously, when was the last time you saw even abstract beings fighting in well populated areas release enough power to white it off? You expect any writer to show of Sentry whipping out entire New York city? That's never going to happen, i've seen Glactus fight in the middle of a city and not damage even a city block. I never mentioned the million exploding suns thing, but Sentry has destroyed planets before in his fight with Photon while holding back
he overloaded Absorbing man with enough power to destroy him atom by atom and Abosrbinng man has absorbed the powers of the cosmic cube and OF before.
in his fight with the Collective their escaping energy destroys a Moon
So yea i don't expect him to kill 8 million people or more, in fact through the power of plot he didn't kill a single person even though he released enough power to engulf part of the city and create fires that raged on for 3 days because no one could extinguish them.
@static_shock: Based on....?
Based on the amount of damage he was doing to the Hulk and the energies he was releasing threatening to kill everyone and everything with it.
Yeah, but said power only destroyed a section of New York, though. Pak stated that Sentry was powerful enough to destroy everyone and everything around him, not that he was powerful enough to destroy the Earth. You went a little too extreme there. Either way, Sentry expended all of his energy before he was immediately knocked out, and like I said before, he only destroyed a portion of New York.
Did you expect Sentry to wipe out the entire New York or anyone for that matter? In none of these scenarios even when abstract beings fight inside a city, almost no one get's ever hurt and some times there is literally no collateral damage. I mean i remember when MM fired a shot at Beyonder that was powerful enough to destroy several billion dimensions and he didn't even bring down the house they where fighting inside of. What does it mean to destroy everyone and everything around him exactly, if it's not the destroy to destroy the very planet they are on? Sentry was basically replacing Hulk there as the world killer
as he was finally letting go and releasing all of his powers while commenting how good it feels. It's not like Sentry hasn't done stuff like this before. Yes he destroyed a portion of New York and created fires that raged on for 3 days because no one could stop them.
The one time Sentry destroyed a planet was when he fought Genis-Vell in the Microverse. Yttrium. Even then, it was combo of energy from the both of them, not just the Sentry.
Yes but it should be noted that they fought each other and destroyed a planet as a side effect, and they where still holding back.
Similarly Sentry and the Collective busted a nearby Moon in their fight.
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