Hulk vs Aquaman new 52

@atheistknowledge: i should have added the poll for better answer, all of this stuff is becoming confusing.

@superprohero: The answer is Hulk wins, even Aquaman supporters and experts agree on that.

After seeing some insane feats of hulk in my previous thread i kinda agree.

Hulk wins.

Everytime I see these two scans, everyone fails to post up the scans that follow where Hulk gets back up and defeats both of them.

@super_soldierxii: Thank god that actually never happened. Allow to keep being helpful:

lal, Hulk wins easily

Me saying that Superman was clearly holding back a lot in their fight is just as clear cut supported as Aquaman's injuries from the US military. That is a fact whether you want to accept it or not doesn't make it any less true. Superman trying to stop Aquaman from leaving was so obviously tempered by him not even fighting Aquaman like he would a supervillain, let alone going all out. Attaching non-existent kudos to Aquaman's performance against Superman is simply a lackluster and cheap point for you to make when it's so obvious how much Superman was holding back by.

Not as consistently as Superman though nor would it save him from getting immediately stomped by an even stronger foe who is bloodlusted as is the case here. Hulk has one shotted stronger guys than Aquaman so I absolutely fail to see why Aquaman is not going to be one shotted by Hulk in this scenario. Plus Aquaman has been downed by less force than a teambuster like Shaggy Man.

There you go imposing your interpretation onto what actually happened again, and a wrong one too. Aquaman was outright KOed by that cheap shot immediately. You can say he recovered quickly or got back into the fight swiftly if you want to try and make it sound better but the fact is Aquaman was KOed by that punch. As you said, don't take a showing and ignore another, that's honestly the very definition of bias.

I know you're frustrated that I keep exposing the gaping flaws in the Orm lightning argument that are clear as day but if you want that to change, either adapt your position or come up with something more convincing. Then I won't have to point out how willfully oblivious you're being of this flawed position. There is no logical basis for Aquaman being able to tank the same lightning that KOed Superman, there is no reason that Batman should have survived lightning that KOed 3 high tier characters at once which means that is a clear reason to discount that feat as PIS. Especially since the lightning Major Disaster used looked the same as Orm's and didn't KO New 52 Superman or Wonder Woman.

That didn't answer my question. How does Aquaman even start to last in a fight where his opponent can hit hard enough to cause earthquakes and natural disasters all over the world in character and here he's bloodlusted? The sea is a weak excuse, Hulk has beaten opponents like Namor, Attuma, magical squids amongst others that are boosted underwater so that doesn't cut it.

Hulk should win.

@stimul said:

Hulk gives him a Round of Applause.

This was actually a good one. Nice!

Although he can fight Superman, Aquaman is clearly not his equal. At best, he can be considered equal to base Hulk, imo. The Trident would pierce Hulk, but he should heal pretty fast.

Different from other DC powerhouses, Aquaman doesn't have all those light speed stuff to claim that he blitzes.

Hulk should win mid dif.

@ashrym:

So please enlighten us with a definitive measure measure of how much Superman may or may not be holding back then.

OK then. Here's all the definitive proof where Superman, and the writer, is clearly indicating that he's holding back against Aquaman.

• Page 2-3, Panel 3: "No. The President called me. But I came voluntarily. To help."
• Page 4, Last Panel: "I want to help."
• Page 5, Panels 1 & 4: "Well Mr Gantry, he appears to be talking to..." "Let me help you. You need to answer for this."
• Page 7, Panel 3: "Let me come with you to Atlantis and face this crisis. Perhaps you need help."
• Page 11, Panel 5: "So let me come with you. I can call in the League. They would all want to help." "Stop saying that! I want to hel--"

Or is what's literally stated in the comic not definitive enough for you? Apparently it's only definitive when you want it to be, which is as two faced and double standard an argument as ever from you.

Ironically, Aquaman turned around and kicked the US military out of the oceans so your lowballing continues to be lowballing.

Yeah that's a good feat when I saw Aquaman pull it off. It's not a particularly impressive 'ya got me' argument though because Superman can do all that and more. But I'm not the one who started the lowballing. EcstacticGrace said this, I only agreed with his interpretation.

Oh look at that your buddy EcstacticGrace is actually the one who's lowballing according to you here. Maybe you'll have a go at EG since he's not conforming to your ridiculously high standard of what you think Aquaman can do.

A .38 hits with about 3000 psi. Aquaman handles 16000 psi sitting still at the bottom of the ocean, let alone what he's facing in motion at hypersonic speeds. Here he is ignoring gunfire posted for you again.

I can post a lot more images of Aquaman ignoring gunfire etc. He's stated to have thick tough skin that's almost bulletproof and muscle density 10 times that of a human, which would also be denser than steel and more than 3 times as dense as concrete. I've posted that information for you before. Any time Aquaman is taking damage from weapons it's either custom for his physiology, superficial, or strong enough that it would do minor damage to steel and does minor damage to Aquaman that doesn't impact him while it heals quickly. Beyond that the weapons need to be capable of significantly damaging someone with the density of steel and flexibility of flesh or else we're getting into PIS/WIS.

All that waffle of yours is instantly countered if I can show evidence of Aquaman being hurt by direct gunfire on his skin. Of which there are 2 examples to support that claim.

Gallery

Your scans show Aquaman shrugging off bullets that hits his chest or armour. Whereas Johns, the guy responsible for Aquaman's strength boost, definitively showed Aquaman bleeding from a direct bullet wound. And Abnett, the guy who had Aquaman go toe to toe with Superman, had Aquaman cry out in pain from military weapons grade gunfire. Not special weapons made to harm Aquaman, just US military weapons could harm him. In contrast, Superman is completely bulletproof. IE bullets do not damage, scratch or even harm Superman unless he's weakened or they're made of Kryptonite/magical element. I personally think Aquaman should be bulletproof and wouldn't have any issue with him being totally bulletproof but until that day comes, Aquaman is not bulletproof like Superman is.

Your claims of injury on a low showing aren't any different than demonstration of Wolverine's claws stabbing the Hulk so claiming a trident win. It's clear lowballing, but then again it wouldn't be an Aquaman thread without the lowballing going on. ;-)

Nor would it be an Aquaman thread without you trying to wank Aquaman's chances to being higher than the reality actually shows. You're already known as Aquaman highballers to some on here I'm afraid ;)

You keep clinging to "Superman was holding back" like it's meaningful when MMH or Shaggyman weren't holding back. MMH is similar strength to Superman an Shaggyman is stronger, therefore Superman "holding back" is pointless. Unless you somehow think the atlantean spirits possessing MMH were holding back by increasing his mass and density before trying to kill Aquaman.

The spirits were affecting Martian Manhunter's mental state and capabilites as buttersdamn pointed out in the Superman vs Aquaman thread so there is strong evidence for Martian Manhunter not actually fighting at full capacity. As for Shaggy Man, he KOed Aquaman instantly and quickly beat him to unconsciousness so that proves how Superman would be able to do the same if he were fighting seriously or going all out. What's pointless is your spin tactics even when I keep exposing them.

Clearly Superman is demonstrating how he's holding back by being staggered or in pain. Regardless of what you seem to think or try to rationalize away, Aquaman takes strikes on that tier and consistently hurts that tier. That's because he's been stated to be capable of holding his own against Superman and Wonder Woman, he's been demonstrated holding his own against Superman and Wonder Woman, and most of his fights are with physical powerhouses.

My first reply shows how everything clearly points to Superman holding back against Aquaman. to All you can prove is that Aquaman can hit an in character Superman. Who is obviously holding back based on good will towards his friend and ally and who wants to help Arthur. Aquaman can fight Superman but he is not Superman tier, not even close. Nor has he ever hurt Superman, either Pre New 52 or New 52. New 52 Superman took no damage from Aquaman's sucker punch nor did Pre Flashpoint Superman take any damage from Aquaman and Mera's combined hits.

Compared side by side Aquaman was the one who ended the fight with someone taking blows from Superman. It wasn't the trident; it was the punch to the jaw ftw in that one.

Someone who Superman also damaged equally effectively and who also had trouble with Donna Troy in the Titans Hunt mini series. This was also a less powerful Superman at the time as the fight took place 6 months after the Justice League repelled Darkseid's invasion.

Superman was not as powerful as he was 5 years later in the New 52 DC continuity.

We even have statements from Superman that Aquaman is 100 times stronger than he is when Superman is at 1/100th of his power. That's pretty easy to math out as comparably high at normal levels. Aquaman was clearly holding back in that fight, however, because he has statements supporting it by asking Clark to take a dive so he could protect him. That version of Superman could still leap miles, walk through steel reinforced concrete walls, and got a job as a pit fighter fighting gods. 1/100th of his full power is still a lot.

I'd say you're kidding me but I know you're not. You must not have been following that god awful story. That version of Superman, at Truth power levels, was mid street level at best if I had to rank him in a power tier. He would lose comfortably to the likes of Luke Cage or Spider-Man so obviously Aquaman should be superior to such a weakened Superman. The nature of those feats are barely worth any merit.

The writers have gone so far as to reinforce Aquaman's striking on Superman after the fact. They can only beat us over the head with it so much before we have to acknowledge that they mean it when they say Aquaman can hold his own against Superman and Wonder Woman.

Just as Abnett confirmed his thoughts on the Superman/Aquaman power discrepancy in an interview before this issue was published.

"I don’t think either of us is suggesting that Aquaman outclasses Superman, but he certainly can hold his own. I think he’s possibly the most likely member of the Justice League — with the exception of Wonder Woman — who can go toe-to-toe like that and stand even a chance of soaking it up and doing some damage."

All those fights are just his powers in action as advertised. There's no hidden context or agenda where Aquaman is secretly not capable of doing something he keeps on doing. He has the strength and durability for those fights.

None of it changes the fact that Aquaman gets stomped instantly by a bloodlusted Hulk who, in character, can hit hard enough to cause earthquakes and natural disasters all over the planet whilst in the planet's core.

Gallery

Does Aquaman have the strength and durability for this? You've admitted Aquaman doesn't have a hope of winning yet still persist in this white knight defence of Aquaman as if he does have a chance. Superman is in the same strength tier of Hulk so surely if Aquaman can fight him in your view, he can fight Hulk too.

Aquaman stomp because.... because.... he can talk to fish.... yes.... that's how he wins!!!!

Jokes aside, hulk will clap his hands for aquaman effort in beating him.... killing him by mistake (not really what will happen, but hulk win)

Aquaman. If the fight goes on long enough, I could see Hulk edging him but if Arthur starts of serious I think he can win.

What's the color of aquaman's blood?

I know he said all that good stuff about Aquaman being able to hold his own against Superman. But he doesn't have Superman's level of strength, let alone his speed, durability, versatility and raw power so it's pretty much irrelevant. Plus he writes Aquaman so he has to have Aquaman do well. Battle forums don't count WIS or PIS remember, feats and showings are what count. And Superman is superior to Wonder Woman too so both comparisons ultimately come up short.

Except that I literally have proven that Superman was holding back with over 5 statements in the comic where Superman is holding back and trying to reason It's in Superman's nature to almost always hold back and not use his full power. You still remain totally ignorant of the facts of the matter, I feel embarrassed for you that you can buy into your weak arguments. How you can think this is still up for debate amazes me quite frankly. Superman is a character who holds back even more than Hulk, that is an ironclad fact above your biased agenda to make it seem like Aquaman was fighting against a serious Superman. Which could not be farther from the truth.

It was suggested in Morrison's Action Comics run. Superman took damage and struggled with opponents he would have stomped at his peak. What you thought Superman suddenly went from mid tier to instant planetary powerhouse? Get real there was a clear period of growing pains. Mammoth is basically an undefined brick to be honest, he can be hurt by Donna Troy's punches and somehow tank blows from Superman too. If he can be put down by Garth and Donna, he's not in the Superman or Wonder Woman tier. This is a clear case of inconsistency you seem fond of using.

That's down to their interpretation but the scans I showed you of Hulk shaking the planet whilst in the core was not the World War Hulk version. It was the Post Sakaar Hulk who retained the core breach amp he got in Pak's run according to several handbook entries. That version is equally acceptable to use feats for.

@ecstaticgrace: Also where are people getting the idea this is WWH.

Bruce can access his WWH levels of power whenever he pleases, so it is definitely applicable here.

Hulk wins. No argument there.

Hulk stomps in the biggest stomp of all time.

@ecstaticgrace: Yes he can attain it at his discretion. I will need to hunt for the scan, but it says that he can do it in a heartbeat IIRC

I didn't say it was WIS for Aquaman to be able to go toe to toe with Superman for a time, many characters below Superman's level have hung with him by virtue of him holding back and not going all out. I said it would be WIS if Aquaman was actually portrayed on the level of a serious Superman who wouldn't hold back on Arthur because he's a friend and ally. Strength is basically the only area where Aquaman can sort of be compared to Superman and even then he doesn't really have Superman level strength. Add in the speed, durability, energy projection and versatility advantages Superman has and it becomes a clearly unfair fight if Superman were to treat Aquaman seriously. He did not do that in their brief scuffle so Aquaman hasn't faced an all out Superman like Wonder Woman has. Also, the feats you're speaking of that put him on the level of the other League heavy hitters were either rare exceptions or PIS like presumably surviving a blast that one shotted Orion. They weren't consistent until the New 52.

(Sigh) Trying to reason with a friend and ally isn't holding back? Way to jump the shark on that one. So not only do you ignore the common sense argument that literally everyone else reading the issue would have picked up on, you also opt to ignore the actual words in the comic itself when you use that same argument later on in this post. I've come to expect this from you at this point. I listed every piece of dialogue where Superman was exercising reason and diplomacy with Aquaman, some of it during their fight. I've proven Superman is someone who holds back almost all the time except against equally strong, if not stronger foes or when mind controlled. Therefore, the logical conclusion is that Superman was obviously holding back against Aquaman same as he always does. Yet you wish to stick your fingers in your ears and pretend my arguments aren't there.

Both are physically superior to Aquaman and both have KOed stronger beings than Aquaman. Your logic can also apply to Superman since he's been written as a League level threat in some stories but obviously he's not consistently portrayed at that level nor do I believe him to be. Your grasping at straws doesn't change the fact that, just like Shaggy Man and Superman, Hulk is physically superior to Aquaman by a massive margin and has one shotted stronger foes than Aquaman. So I don't know what you're trying to convince me and the others of in this thread, that Aquaman can make Hulk work for a win? You already conceded Aquaman loses to Hulk.

Action Comics #1-8 took place before the League was formed. What I was referring to was Action Comics #10-12 which was set after the League was formed. Just as Superman was still not at his full power compared to 5 years later in those issues, there is similarly solid rounds to justify Superman not being at full power when he fought Mammoth. If Mammoth could be hurt and beaten by characters below Wonder Woman's level, he can't be considered Superman class.

This second to last paragraph doesn't even make sense, I have no idea what claim you're trying to make. There's enough to reply to as it is.

Glad I could inform you properly, as for Post Sakaar Hulk's strength, he's basically a much stronger Savage Hulk. Not sure if he's on WWH levels but he's still one of the strongest non amped versions of Hulk.

There is nothing Aquaman can do to beat Hulk here.

There is no such thing as base Hulk.

Hulk was able to go from Banner to near-WBH levels in an instant.

However i don't see the need for him to be at WWH levels here.

@atheistknowledge: Bingo, there is that scan. Thanks

@brucerogers: Your welcome.

@atheistknowledge: Base Hulk = not absurdly mad wiht rage Hulk.

@jucaslucasa: That would be just regular Hulk, who is still leaps and bounds above Aquaman in every department, so i don't see how they are equal.

@atheistknowledge: Quick question, is Post Sakaar/Indestructible Hulk as strong as Green Scar/World War Hulk in your opinion? I thought the core boost just made Hulk overall, not give him consistent WWH strength.

@atheistknowledge: Do you even know anything about Aquaman?

@alex_1333: Yes i have seen most of his feats, do you know anything about the Hulk? I'd be happy to compare the feats if you want so we can see if the 2 of them are "equal" as some would claim.

@lvenger: Well the thing about WWH is he was driven by emotion in fact that was a huge part of it not just the amp from the core breach, so even though the Hulk did retain his amp he isn't any longer running around hunting down members of Illuminati to avenge his wife if you know what i mean? While i do believe it's shown that Hulk still operates on Green Scar levels more or less, they aren't exactly WWH levels(even though Pak made little distinction between Hulk at the WWH event and Green Scar overall). So it would not be fair to say Indestructible Hulk = WWH or something like that when the huge emotional part is missing from the equation, that's how i personally view it.

@atheistknowledge: That's a pretty fair answer especially the bit about WWH's personal emotions at the time.

@atheistknowledge: 1. Really because it doesn't seem like you know any feats for him..?

2. Yeah I know what he's capable of. But you're acting like Aquaman stands no chance. Some of Hulk's physicals aren't even that much higher than Aquaman.

@alex_1333: 1. Considering i mentioned a couple of feats of him myself that assumption would be strange.

2. He doesn't really stand a chance it's easily 10/10 in Hulks favor here. Oh really, can you name me those physicals?

@atheistknowledge: Hulk's? His best striking feat is cracking a continent. Aquaman has managed to knock Superman way back by punching him. With his Trident he's inflicted damage by stabbing Darkseid's eye. If he can inflict serious damage to Darkseid and possibly Superman he can do the same to Hulk since he's definitely weaker than both. Hell wolverine was able to hurt Hulk. Aquaman MURDERSTOMPS 13/10.

@alex_1333: Oh so you've chosen to take the childish i.e. defeatist route on this, very well. Hulks best striking feat isn't cracking a continent not even close, he cracked a continent while taking a step and still trying to hold back from doing it. Hulks best striking feats would be one-shotting Thor, 3-shotting Thor, destroying Onslaughts armor when no other hero on Earth including a WM Thor could do, pounding Emma Frost who possessed half of the Phoenix Force through an entire island and into the water below, damaging Annhilius newfound carapace after he obtained power that rivaled Thanos(something Gladiator failed to do), breaking through a time storm when even Kangs machines failed to, breaking through time itself, denting primary adamantium itself, shaking the entire planet with 5.6 earthquake that caused chasms, sink holes, volcanos to erupt, icebergs to fall, ocean to rustle around the world just by punching some gamma powered monsters, punching Nova more then 5 600 miles away sending him from the US to Paris breaking his helmet in the process and giving him amnesia and many, many more...

That's cool but Wolverine has slashed Hulks eyes and they healed in seconds, in fact Hulk even got decapitated before and still fought on, so i don't see why Aquaman stabbing him would do much. When did Aquaman cause serious damage to Superman or Darkseid? Hulk has a healing factor that's one of the best of any Marvel hero, on top of that he actually has superior physicals to Clark. Wolverine was able to hurt Thor, Gladiator and even Thanos, so i don't see your point here.

The only thing i can extrapolate from all this is that your knowledge on Hulk isn't even entry level and your ability to conduct yourself as well as make an intelligent deduction from certain characters and their feats isn't much better either.

@atheistknowledge: Aquaman backhands Hulk to infinity and beyond. Oh and Thor is nothing compared to Superman or Darkseid. Aquaman stomps 13/10 :-)

@alex_1333: Just as i expected.

You are excused.

I like aquaman a lot but I cant see him beating hulk

The Aquaman wank is hilarious.

@atheistknowledge: Take a seat hypocrite.

@alex_1333: Sigh... You came back to whine? Really? It's not my fault you know next to nothing about the Hulk(this is not an insult it's a fact, i know next to nothing about Green Lanters i wont get butthurt about it or go around claiming that i do) and instead presumed otherwise with a fake bravado. Throwing random ad hominen at me with nothing to back it up either is only doing further damage to you at this point. Relax, take a break, go read a Hulk comic if you'd like to know more about the character, don't get angry at me because i was right you where wrong, we are not 5 years old, move on.

Nah. He wo't survive a brawl with Hulk, if one punch from Wonder Woman was enough to stagger him:

http://i.imgur.com/ps5NCKJ.jpg

@strike3: Aquaman makes Hulk slip because of water. And Hulk falls and kisses his tridon , the end.

@alex_1333: Shhh, it's been a whole day let it go, it will be alright.