How Accurate is this Naruto Tier List?

http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/naruto-final-tier-list-2014-2015-updated-to-chapter-700.25104/

@darkraiden@kcminato@leo-343@mudamudamuda@cosmic_lantern@rolandalderas@_mongul@noone301994@andr413@thevivas@highaccuser@ancient_god

I'd like to gather some opinions here

id say a few inconsistencies.

1. they have the gold/silver brothers listed in the same category as rock lee in shippuden and part 1 kakashi.

these guys were considered top tier in their day. were able to take on the Raikage and 2nd hokage AND the full powered 9 tails and live. that is something part 1 kakashi could NEVER do. part 1 kakashi couldn't even effectively keep his composure in front of orochimaru.

2. they also have gokage sasuke in the same category as Danzo. which is odd, sasuke curb stomped danzo. danzo had to use, what 5+ izanagi's to even stay alive against sasuke, after sasuke had taken on 4 other kages in open combat, cut off the Raikages arm, was nearly killed by the mizukage and chased down danzo. he had also used very taxing moves like, ameratsu multiple times, his sussano armored against the mizukage and raikage to the point where his eyes were already bleeding.

essentially he was already very weakend and STILL managed to not only out smart but outright literally kill danzo multiple times.

3. they have Obito war arc in the "top tier" but not legendary, in the same category as war arc kakashi.

Obito here had taken on naruto/bee/guy AND kakashi at once(all listed in this same tier) , and was not only stalemating but had the distinct advantage until kakashi figured out the secret behind his eye techniques.

hes also listed in the same category as himself without the rinnegan. which is kind of odd considering the huge power boost even one rinnegan gave him, not only controlling the other jinchurikies as his "paths" of pain but being able to absorb ninjutsu and control the Gedo statue.

and thats just from taking a breif look. a few more kind of pop out that i can also elaborate on.

other then that though. its mostly a solid tier list.

@chair-sama Thanks for the feedback. Not my list, btw, but I'm thinking about making an official Naruto tier list for CV with some help and wanted to build from something.

1. they have the gold/silver brothers listed in the same category as rock lee in shippuden and part 1 kakashi.

these guys were considered top tier in their day. were able to take on the Raikage and 2nd hokage AND the full powered 9 tails and live. that is something part 1 kakashi could NEVER do. part 1 kakashi couldn't even effectively keep his composure in front of orochimaru.

I sorta agree, though the list has them individually, not as a team, so I can get behind it.

2. they also have gokage sasuke in the same category as Danzo. which is odd, sasuke curb stomped danzo. danzo had to use, what 5+ izanagi's to even stay alive against sasuke, after sasuke had taken on 4 other kages in open combat, cut off the Raikages arm, was nearly killed by the mizukage and chased down danzo. he had also used very taxing moves like, ameratsu multiple times, his sussano armored against the mizukage and raikage to the point where his eyes were already bleeding.

essentially he was already very weakend and STILL managed to not only out smart but outright literally kill danzo multiple times.

Danzo would have killed him if not for Karin saying "Behind you" when Danzo Iganagi'd behind him. Really, I'd say that Danzo should be higher if anything.

Not to mention Koto.

3. they have Obito war arc in the "top tier" but not legendary, in the same category as war arc kakashi.

Obito here had taken on naruto/bee/guy AND kakashi at once(all listed in this same tier) , and was not only stalemating but had the distinct advantage until kakashi figured out the secret behind his eye techniques.

hes also listed in the same category as himself without the rinnegan. which is kind of odd considering the huge power boost even one rinnegan gave him, not only controlling the other jinchurikies as his "paths" of pain but being able to absorb ninjutsu and control the Gedo statue.

You may be right, though I don't remember him absorbing ninjutsu and the Paths would not be with him.

and thats just from taking a breif look. a few more kind of pop out that i can also elaborate on.

other then that though. its mostly a solid tier list.

The issues come in with the lower tiers, in my opinion.

so many inconsistencies. juubito is only a little weaker than than BSM naruto, he lost for plot so he should be god tier.

minato is legendary even without BM. along with war arc obito.

and how is itachi not legendary? he is one of the most versatile ninjas ever. he is a genius who could eliminate all the uchiha by himself. he could fight killer bee and KCM naruto by himself.

and many more...

even individually, they are essentially like kisame, considered pseudo-jinchurikies with them absorbing the 9 tails chakra for so long.

they were considered comparable to the second hokage and raikage in terms of power at the time.

while I'm not saying they are top tiers but i feel they are still placed low, atlas HYPE wise.

and true paths are not with him, but he still has the ability to create them. its an ability granted of from the rinnegan and makes him much more versatile. just like its something to consider when placing nagato on the list.

and true he may not have absorbed the ninjutsu, its been a while since I've read the war arc, but he still shouldn't be in the same tier as 4 other people he alone stalemated. it goes to show that 1v1 he is superior to each of them, but still considered the same in terms of power.

and as for the danzo point. yes he probably would have had killed him. but again this was also a severely weakened sasuke. he had not only taken on and killed danzo multiple times, this was AFTER challenging all 5 kages in open combat.

il admit if it was just a normal 1v1 sasuke vs danzo and danzo got the jump like that it would be more impressive, but sasuke was already strained, and STILL wiped danzo out with relative ease. he even had a moment where he spit in danzo's face so to speak, by tracking him with a time based genjutsu. something danzo even mocked him on.

it wasn't like he even beat him, he killed him several times AND got the last laugh. and forced the raikage to lose an arm. something incredibly impressive in its own right.

I'll pick the parts I have a problem with.

1. One rinnegan Juubi Madara as a tier above Juubito. While more powerful, I think he's only marginally more powerful, and not an entire tier ahead. He was merely stated to have more power, not that there was a staggering difference. He certainly shouldn't be above Haruma.

2. 8 Gates Guy is a temporary ace in the hole, and Madara, and only really did as well against Madara due to help. He should not be on the same tier as Naurto, Sasuke, Madara at full power, and DMS Kakashi.

3. War arc Obito should be on the legendary tier. If including his full arsenal, he ROFTL stomps everyone else on that tier (acept maybe Minato if he plays his cards right), and can compete against multiple people on the legendary tier, if not beat them.

4. Tsunade should be on the high tier if early shippuden Kakashi can qualify.

5. Choji(war arc) should not be on the low tier given what the composition of the low-tiers, and the mid-low-tiers.

Aside from this, there isn't a whole lot that's blatantly wrong tier wise. If the list wasn't in order within the tiers, then it'd have some faults, but overall, would be a decent list. Problem is, his following comment about justifying putting Kakashi top 3 suggests otherwise. So, if taken in order, there's a ton of huge problems, which would take a lot of space to go over. Though I could elaborate on some if anyone wants.

Those Kakashi placements...

This list is just.....wow I really hope it's not in order because even as a Kakashi fan, I call bullshit on him being the strongest. YES, he is very hax'd but Naruto can easily beat him since he knows the secret behind Kamui, just throw a clone into the distortion and have it finish him when he goes intangible. Kakashi In-general is ranked awkwardly on this list, kid kakashi was an Anbu he's WAY above lowtier characters.

Sasuke is also quite oddly placed here, litterally every incarnation is placed inaccurately except EoS. Guy should not be above him, he has a way of beating Sasuke but that at all does not correlate to him being above him.

Some of Narutos earlier incarnations are lowballed, to an astounding degree.

Edo madara with Wood release is above hashirama

The Entire Legendary tier is missing too many......My god I could go on and on but perhaps the part where I draw the line is Hiruzen being mid-tier. That is the most laughable and credibility busting thing I've seen so far.

@desolatorstorm: Please do, I'd enjoy hearing that opinion because I agree, his low tier placements especially are all over the place

@chair-sama: Just saying, you know forcing someone to Izanagi doesn't count as a win, right?

@cosmic_lantern

Sasuke is also quite oddly placed here, litterally every incarnation is placed inaccurately except EoS. Guy should not be above him, he has a way of beating Sasuke but that at all does not correlate to him being above him.

Agreed. Where would you place them?

Some of Narutos earlier incarnations are lowballed, to an astounding degree.

Which ones? I thought those were actually okay.

Edo madara with Wood release is above hashirama

Edo Hashirama defeating Edo Madara puts this one to rest.

The Entire Legendary tier is missing too many......My god I could go on and on but perhaps the part where I draw the line is Hiruzen being mid-tier. That is the most laughable and credibility busting thing I've seen so far.

Where would you place Hiruzen?

@wf_mxyzptlk

Those Kakashi placements...

Tell me about it. I can see DMS Kakashi as top 3, but every other version (save for debatably War Arc) are hilariously misplaced.

@cosmic_lantern: No. Hashrama literally defeated him and had him pinned down with the Deity Gates and was ready for Sai to seal him. Then Madara got brought back to life and used the black receivers he had to restrain Hashi, THEN he humiliated him. You cannot point me to one scan of Edo Madara humiliating Hashirama.

Also, you think Pain Arc Kakashi is on the same level as Itachi?

@chair-sama: Yeah fair enough. Ay would have stalemated Sasuke but Sasuke is overall better, no doubt.

@cosmic_lantern also, I really hope you realize that the whole Edo Hashi/Tobi thing was retconned to say that they were at very low power due to Oro not having the means to fully restore them and also taking away their free will which further limits power. That could not be more obvious and also Hashi and Tobi were originally intended to not be even close to what they are now. Notice that Tobi didn't have Hiraishin and Hashi did nothing even remotely impressive.

I would say part 1 Hinata is above "trash tier". She's more so in the "very low tier".

@heirtothekingdom: Yep, that seemed like bias with her being the weakest/female of her squad

Agreed.

@justicethorpsylocke said:

@cosmic_lantern: No. Hashrama literally defeated him and had him pinned down with the Deity Gates and was ready for Sai to seal him. Then Madara got brought back to life and used the black receivers he had to restrain Hashi, THEN he humiliated him. You cannot point me to one scan of Edo Madara humiliating Hashirama.

He didn't defeat him, Madara was simply keeping him busy the entire time like he stated whilst they were fighting (in the span of well over 20 chapters, don't even ask me to look for it)he even seen Obito had failed knowing he was going to use rinne-tensei, so when he got trapped he didn't even bother to counter here:

Gallery

What Hash did to Madara Is Irrelevent anyways, he's edo therefore unlimited Chakra, Kishi goofed himself on that one. Anyways afterwards he proceeds to cheat with rinne tensei and GG no-re Hash.

Also, you think Pain Arc Kakashi is on the same level as Itachi?

Kamui gg, also kakashi has better feats. Fighting multiple S classed villians by yourself is a feat in itself, Itatchi is under MS sasuke by a fair margin also.

Firstly they were still encased in the barrier that destroyed everything that made contact so they couldn't use anything big for scale, Secondly Tobi uses multiple high-end suiton and Hash uses deep forest emergence off the bat twice and they had him trapped with genjutsu. Lastly when he realized he had no other option and was running out of chakra he resorted to death reaper seal, he only managed to land it due to Orochimaru being careless with the edo from wanting to see his jutsu:

Yes they were weaker but not by a large degree, even the Shinobi watching comment on the scale of which their fighting similar to in the war. It takes away their human intuition thats why it makes them Combat Zombies essentially, Tobi wouldn't be able to use Hiraishin effectively technically.

Hinata in Shippuden isn't worse than Neji part 1.

@wiimas: Actually she is... No Argument

@veravin: She's not that bad. She has Byakugan, is very proficent in taijutsu, and knows a bunch of techniques, and can arguably beat Sakura.

@cosmic_lantern: If he could have won (humiliated, as you like to say) he would have done it in the span of those 30 chapters. Yes, he wanted to get back to life, and Hashirama if anything was in the way. Letting himself get sealed would have been pointless either way. Also, Edos don't have unlimited chakra, they simply can't die therefore using all their chakra at once isn't a risk. That's why Itachi and Hiruzen are the only character noticeably improved by Edo, because in life they were at risk if using too much chakra. Tobirama and Hiruzen both stated that they ran out of chakra IIRC (it will regenerate as normal). If Edos had "ultimitated chakra" you would have fodder Edos doing Madara level Katons.

I don't agree but okay.

The whole Hiruzen thing is tough, it partly up to interpretation whether they were limited by Oro's control etc., but Kishi's ideas of their power clearly changed from Part 1 to War Arc

Firstly this is imo, and with that said if others disagree.. Awell... Anyway, onto my issues with the list. (Also I am going to assume that the that each individual tier isn't sorted from best to worst.) Oh and I am going to throw this out their as well. In terms of the teir list I don't rate hype. So guys like Shusiu, and Sakumo who have hype, I wouldn't rate so highly.

Might Guy (8th Gate Power) - Don't get me wrong, Guy is extremely powerful. However due to the technique's strain essentially ruling him out of the fight after use, and in a sense the one dimensional nature of his offence. He just isn't at the level where he can complete with truly hax'ed characters and their abilities. I think he could drop between 1-3 tiers.

Tobimaru Senju - Based on hype he belongs in this tier. He doesn't have the capability as Minato does with FTG Technique. I would probably seperate the Top Tier list into two if possible. Otherwise I would drop him down one tier.

Mu - He depends on how you theorize his invisibility tech. I am under the belief that the only possible way he can be detected is via physical sensory techniques (i.e. Sand, Bugs.) I would move him up one tier.

Danzo Shimura - I rate Danzo highly, just purely because he has hax jutsu. As already mentioned he would have beat Sasuke (Kage Summit Arc). Whether he had to use 10 sharingan or 2, the fact of the matter is he has them. That and Kotoamatsukami is one of the most pure hax abilities going in a 1 on 1 contest.

Kakashi (Early-Shippuden) - Drop him down at least a tier. He is good, and has access to Kamui. At this stage though he isn't effective enough with it for it to be a major component in battle.

Honestly a lot especially towards the end, could use some spacing out in terms of tiers. Like several more additional levels to split up groups accurately would work on balancing out the tiers a little and giving more of a clear indication at the level some people are at.

itachi is way to low. At worse he's a level under god tier. He can defeat 99% of everyone in naruto verse instantly, and has a way of sealing everyone including gods in an instant. He has never been damaged in battle (unless he allows it or he was dead) and has a jutsu that burns hotter than the sun which atomizes you in an instant if he chooses to do so.

@justicethorpsylocke:

Madara confirmed they have limitless chakra. Either they have limitless amounts or they can exhaust what would have been there real life amounts and it replenishes right away.

@hiplus: Like I said, "limitless chakra" means they could execute any of their jutsu without limit, and that clearly isn't the case. "Limitless" in that context just means that since they can't die, they can use it all up and it will just replenish. Using too much chakra while alive means you die, Edos don't have that limitation. That's what it does. They still have limits. There are more instances of them running out than there are of the one instance of Madara making a claim.

@cosmic_lantern:

Madara outright states "An immortal body with Unlimited chakra" Kabuto even states something similar in the Itatchi fight when he explains so. It's not that they ran out, they probably couldn't build up the appropriate amount for whatever jutsu they were planning Tobirama even says he must wait for hiraishin to be used again multiple times. Also take note of the condition Hash was in, guy was rodded to the ground unable to move. Madara feigned defeat and waited on his time to act so he could steal his sage mode like he said he was going to do before the fight.

Unlimited chakra: 1 statement from a guy whose reserves while added on top of Hashirama cells are so vast they might as well be.

Edos have limits: Tobirama running out, Hiruzen running out, Hashirama having his Sage Mode absorbed

Clearly Edos have limits.

UNLIMITED CHAKRA, do you know what that means? It means UNLIMITED PHYSICAL ENERGY and UNLIMITED SPIRITUAL ENERGY. Edos do not get infinite amounts of this due to being immortal.

You proved my point. If Edos had unlimited chakra, (according to your statement on how Hashi shouldn't be able to absorb Madara's jutsu if he has unlimited chakra) Hashirama couldn't have had his SM absorbed and Tobirama would have no problem spamming Hiraishin. And Tobirama stating "only four clones" (or however many it was) shows that clearly he had ran low on chakra, especially since it surprised him there was no indication that he just needed to build up more, he actually couldn't.

Madara didn't feign defeat, he clearly stated that isn't how he wanted things to go. He never stated that he could defeat Hashirama, but he did imply that he'd be able to once he was brought back to life. Bottom line, Edo Madara cannot defeat Edo Hashi, let alone living Hashi.

About kakashi being better than Itatchi? What feats can you even make an argument of this, only thing Itatchi has going for him is Hax Genjutsu. He's never seen Kakashi's mangekyou, whilst kakashi has an idea of how to counter his. TBH Drop Itatchi a tier, the hax kage should be in the high high tier (Onoki for example) mostly everything about his character is hype.

The fact that Kakashi at that time hadn't shown the ability to insta-Kamui a human sized object like in War Arc, and Itachi is faster, has Susanoo, can seal Kakashi.

No Kakashi short of War Arc can beat Itachi.

The guys still hokage level, and knows an assortment of high-end Jutsu. He's at the very least high-tierish

In that tier list "Mid Tier" was sorta like "Average Kage Tier", which I can see Old Hiruzen in but also in High debatably.

Also, where would you put Tsunade? You seem to think she's a high tier, but you haven't mentioned her in this thread yet.

@cosmic_lantern:

Along with a statement from a guy who cast the Jutsu himself and another from a guy who proceeded to checkmate the caster. I'd say it carries more weight.

Point being that it's a statement vs actual showings.

Hash having his unlimited chakra doesn't mean unlimited senjutsu, and even then who says he absorbed it all? Sasuke interrupted him.

That's a good point

Not on chakra bud, it's specifically stated numerous times. In-fact the entirety of the war shows otherwise, two examples vs over 150+ chapters, you take your pick.

Wait, what? When did the War constantly show Edos performing their techniques with limitless power, because that's what unlimited chakra would grant.

1. A body that never deteriorates or tires

2. An immortal soul trapped in a living body

I think that fits the criteria perfectly for unlimited chakra.

Hold on, I think we have different definitions of unlimited here. I mean that unlimited chakra would give their chakra pool limitless depth. That's clearly not the case. If you mean that their chakra can't run out due to immortality, since it can regenerate despite complete depletion, then you'd be right. So which do you mean?

What proof do you have that he couldn't? Minato has the reserves to FTG GG Madara to infinity but does he do so in every showing? Absolutely not, it's irrational for a character,

The fact that he made the TKB sign (which is supposed to just divide your chakra evenly as much as it can while still being able to maintain itself) and then could only make a few clones and was surprised by it. What more proof do you need that he couldn't make more?

Biju technically have unlimited chakra being composed of it and all and also being nigh-immortal, and they have to build up chakra constantly in order to use certain Jutsu.

If by "unlimited" you mean "extremely vast" then sure. Yes they do, and the Tobirama thing has nothing to do with that. He actually couldn't.

Looking at this logically, Edo madara STOMPS edo hash theirs absolutely no reason edo hash would even be on his level. He didn't even attempt to use wood release or susanoo clones or any other rinnegan ability at that in the fight.

Madara did feign defeat, he already seen obito had failed, and stopped trying. Hashirama himself even said he didn't defeat him but immobilized momentarily, thats when his clone showed up and informed him of the rest. Scans clear as day show that but I guess it has to be repeated for whatever reason.

Hashirama couldn't "defeat" (by that definition) because he had no way of killing/sealing an Edo.

Yes I know all of that, but that doesn't mean Madara could have won. If he could have, he'd have gladly done so. Hashirama was in his way. Yes Madara wanted to fight, but he's not gonna lose to Hashirama because he might get brought back to life. That doesn't follow.

His first ever usage he sniped a limb off of a flying target, his second ever usage he sniped a clay filled deidara after it exploded. Itatchi isn't faster than kakashi by any means and he can't stop a raikiri blitz other than susanoo.

You're right, I forgot about that. Sorry.

All that is a bogus lie and I'll gladly debunk it if need be.

The speed thing? How? Not that it matters, I agree that Kakashi wins now.

War-arc kakashi stomps Itatchi, not even remotely debatable unless you give him edo feats which really arent that impressive.

Will gladly prove this one also.

I already agreed to that one. War Arc Kakashi definitely beat Itachi.

Tsunade along with her trio are all high tier, Jiraiya possibly high-high tier tbh especially since like I said Itatchi (who doesn't belong there) is.

The real problem with Tsunade is her lack of hax. She'd be above Rasenshuriken Naruto but still lower end of High Tier.

Why is Pain and Nagato on the same tier?? Pain should be a tier below.

Tobirama should be in high tier instead of legendary.

Shippuden Kakasi, pre war Kakashi, and post fuuton Naruto should be in mid tier.

Why is Kakashi's dad even on this list? What are his feats?

Shippuden Gaara should be high tier.

Kinkaku and Ginkaku should be high tier.

War arc Sakura should be in low/mid tier.

Kid Obito should be in trash tier.

@justicethorpsylockesaid:

@cosmic_lantern:

Deidara was bragging about it the whole time during his encounter with Kankuro, Unlimited chakra doesn't necesarily mean their techniques would gain a large boost in power(edo makes them weaker). They can easily spam their high-end attacks, just look at the Mizukage.

Wait, you mean UNLIMITED STAMINA. Yes, Edos have unlimited stamina, but unlimited CHAKRA would mean limitless power, which does not follow.

Thier chakra pool is limitless, having that much chakra doesn't necessarily mean you can just throw it around whenever. You still have to bring out that power as evident with KN0 Naruto, Sakuras Yin seal, the eight gates formation, Raikages lightning armor etc.

Not really the same thing. Those are modes of power ups, Edos are just shinobi with less chakra reserves than when they were living. If it was LIMITLESS it wouldn't need to be brought out in modes. Gates is in modes for a reason, because of it's learning curve and dangers. Yin Seal is finite, so being resourceful with it makes sense, KN has to do with the 8 Trigrams Seal holding it back. Lightning armor is just Raikage powering up his chakra, which is how ALL chakra works, just Raikage's is stronger.

Dividing infinity is the problem he was probably surprised they had the level of reserves he did or that he actually made 4 in the first place (clones arent suspossed to be spammed) and I just realized something very key here. Orochimaru summoned the Hokage who had not 'perfected' the jutsu like Kabuto had it's quite possible that they only gain an immortal body from his variant of it.

It's possible. I've thought about that myself. I mean, Kabuto did use the Curse Mark for Edo chakra which would give them limitless access to chakra. But this is really just a theory.

Both were incapped, Madara seen his chance to escape therefore thought ahead. Notice the classic Uchiha smirk that just screams 'gg', I mean at the very least look at how easily he burst out of it, am I just susposed to believe the leap in power is that much (IMO edo should be like 70-80% of their living self)? He doesn't even look remotely worried when Hash has him binded.

With characters like Madara and Hashirama whose chakra is thousands of times greater than the average human, 20-30 percent is a lot, so yes it would make a difference like that.

Thing is, Madara knew he'd get brought back and no one else did, that's where the smirk came from.

Even if Edo Madara = Edo Hashirama, Living Hashirama is still better.

Agree to Disagree? We obviously have different interpretations, nothing wrong with that though.

Yeah, Edo is one of those things Kishimoto did a terrible job explaining. There shouldn't be so many fan theories but oh well.

I agree on this one, full sized Katsuyu is also a factor in her arsenal that I think gets over looked at times, probably one of the most versatile summons in the series tbh.

I'd put Katsuya right behind Juubi, Gedo Mazo, and Kurama in terms of summons. That said, I can see Tsunade losing to much of high tier as most of them can bypass Katsuya's durability.

So anyway, I made this thread in order to make a CV Naruto Tier list. Want to help in a PM?

Sure, just inbox me.

its funny, I heard in a joint interview where both Akira Toriyami and Mavashi Kishimoto say Kaguya is equal to Beerus in power...

@sooperfly: ???

idk if they were referring to Kaguya exactly, but they were speaking about one of the villains in Naruto. I never watched it so idk

@justicethorpsylocke: EOS Sasuke should be higher....

Finally looked at the list, and it does have some weird/bogus placements.

@thevivas: Any thoughts/suggestions? Because Cosmic and I are taking this guy's list and fixing it to make an official CV Naruto tier list. Want to help? If not mind just making a few suggestions?

I actually went through each tier and made suggestions but my computer froze and all of it got deleted, and I don't really want to go through again.

I'll take a look at list you're making though. Might want to add @princearagorn1 as well, since he probably knows the characters the best.

Itachi is overrated as usual.

not a battle

@zoldycklogic: ''he could fight killer bee and KCM naruto by himself.''

No. Naruto had already split into 13 clones and had no intention of FIGHTING Itachi. He never goes serious in that fight.

Itachi is nowhere near Naruto's speed and the Sharingan can't follow KCM Naruto, who is faster than Ay.