Hal Jordan vs. Iron Man Team

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willpayton

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@willpayton: With the help of 3 other geniuses he can create 1. He created two in less than a week while inventing. For Hal he needs only one and will take him much less time because he does not need to invent them, only make them and IT will be easy with Magneto around.

What stops them from being teleported? Maybe the fact that They will take him down before that happens.

An adamantium sentinel will barely be a speed-bump for Hal.

Hal could simply find them all on Earth, teleport each one to the Sun, and the fight is over. Hal has lots of ways to win here.

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Revan-

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@crafter said:

Team Iron Man.

If i remember correctly Black Panther got Cosmic Cube with short amount of time, with prep it is definitely a win.

And Magneto can simply blood rip Jordan, as well as having very powerful shields to protect his team, and he can draw energies from distant planetary objects to empower himself.

Blue Marvel is essentially a Superman with Anti-Matter powers, and we all know what happens when Matter and Anti-Matter collide.

And one of the worst factors for Jordan is that Black Bolt, Magneto and Blue Marvel can all manipulate atoms and molecules.

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willpayton

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@crafter said:

Hal only had matter manip/time manip and other crazy powers in pre-crisis and 90s, as well as any other Lantern had similar powers in Pre-Crisis and 90s, in Post-2000 their powers were retconned to simple will energy manipulation, for construct creation, blast power, forcefield, FTL travel and etc....but time manip matter manip and other powers of such category were not under their control.

The OP clearly says this is Post-Crisis Hal Jordan, which means he does indeed have his matter manipulation powers and all the rest of it.

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Revan-

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Without prep stomp in Hal's favor. With prep stomp in Team's favor

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KrleAvenger

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#55  Edited By KrleAvenger

@willpayton: They all react on Nano second and tagged people with better reaction than Hal like Scarlet Witch. And what if Hal sents them to the Sun? They just come back.

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willpayton

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#56  Edited By willpayton

@willpayton: They all react on Nano second and tagged people with better reaction than Hal like Scarlet Witch. And what if Hal sents them to the Sun? They just come back.

Then this happens:

No Caption Provided

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KrleAvenger

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@willpayton: You expect him to destroy Adamantium? LOL not gonna happen. And what stops me from saying how T'Challa is gonna put Vibranium instead of Adamantium, making Sentineks absorb all the force Hal can unleash. But maybe 12 h of prep is not enough when I think of IT. I would say They need like 3 days the least to beat Bloodlusted Hal.

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Crafter

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@crafter said:

Hal only had matter manip/time manip and other crazy powers in pre-crisis and 90s, as well as any other Lantern had similar powers in Pre-Crisis and 90s, in Post-2000 their powers were retconned to simple will energy manipulation, for construct creation, blast power, forcefield, FTL travel and etc....but time manip matter manip and other powers of such category were not under their control.

The OP clearly says this is Post-Crisis Hal Jordan, which means he does indeed have his matter manipulation powers and all the rest of it.

He had matter manip only from 1986-to Zero Hour, Post-2000(which is still post-crisis) none of lanters showcased such power. And he never showcased time manip and such post-2000, so it was simply retconned out of his powerset, as well as from powerset of all GLs.

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TheKinfing

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#59  Edited By TheKinfing

@crafter: Was it stated that it was retcon? Because if it wasn't then there is no reason to assume that he still can't or will use it.

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Crafter

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@crafter: Was it stated that it was retcon? Because if it wasn't then there is no reason to assume that he still can't or will use it.

Jordan and other Lanterns had 11 years to showcase those powers again(2000-2011), yet they didn't, so there is a reason why to think their powers were retconed.

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TheKinfing

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@crafter: Again, was that officially recton, like Kyle or Hal outright saying that they can't use their powers? If not then it didn't got retcon, its simply out of character, just like Thor with Godblasts and draining, we know that he can still use them, but how often does he?

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SupremeGeneration

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What are some of Hal's feats?

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Crafter

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@crafter: Again, was that officially recton, like Kyle or Hal outright saying that they can't use their powers? If not then it didn't got retcon, its simply out of character, just like Thor with Godblasts and draining, we know that he can still use them, but how often does he?

It is called smooth retcon. He can't use them, it is under his Classic powerset, that's why there is reason, why people indicate the version of Thor in battles, Classic Thor had essentially a walking plot device weapon known as Mjolnir*which is not the same as modern Mjolnir's power). And again Jordan and GLs had freaking 11 years to replicate those feats, and yet they have none of them post-2000s. Lanterns were doing mm on regular basis before 2000s. Even Superman post-2000s showcased at least 2 moonbusting feats, bunch of FTL feats, and many other high-end feats, and on regular basis he doesn't showcase such power.

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RisingBean

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I'm backing Hal.

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deactivated-62bbc687ba507

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Black bolt+magneto+ironman with prep=a win for me

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cyborgzod

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@crafter said:
@thekinfing said:

@crafter: Again, was that officially recton, like Kyle or Hal outright saying that they can't use their powers? If not then it didn't got retcon, its simply out of character, just like Thor with Godblasts and draining, we know that he can still use them, but how often does he?

It is called smooth retcon. He can't use them, it is under his Classic powerset, that's why there is reason, why people indicate the version of Thor in battles, Classic Thor had essentially a walking plot device weapon known as Mjolnir*which is not the same as modern Mjolnir's power). And again Jordan and GLs had freaking 11 years to replicate those feats, and yet they have none of them post-2000s. Lanterns were doing mm on regular basis before 2000s. Even Superman post-2000s showcased at least 2 moonbusting feats, bunch of FTL feats, and many other high-end feats, and on regular basis he doesn't showcase such power.

that's nonsense, there was no change or retcon. Hal has been the same from Crisis up until now. Also, feel free to prove that Hal hasnt done matter manipulation in 16 years. i'll wait.

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depinhom

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Okay, so Supes was replaced. I had said team won anyways, do I will definitely back them here.

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theawesomeflashsandiego32

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Did not realize how powerful Hal was... Wow he wins I think.

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runekingthor98

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#69  Edited By runekingthor98

wait people are saying hal wins..... now thats funny

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HeirToTheKingdom

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Yeah, Hal is not winning here at all.

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willpayton

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What are some of Hal's feats?

I'll post a few feats for Post-Crisis Hal.

Speed:

Holds a conversation in a fraction of a nanosecond. Only Clark Kent is fast enough to be able to see what's going on.

Catches a speeding Zoom:

No Caption Provided

Keeps up with speeding Flashes:

No Caption Provided

Durability:

Gets punched right through a planet and is not even KO'ed.

No Caption Provided

Survives a direct attack capable of destroying a moon, and is not even harmed by it or KO'ed:

No Caption Provided

Ability to attack multiple targets:

Hal can attack dozens of targets, or create dozens of constructs to fight for him:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Power:

Kills Krona:

No Caption Provided

Creates planetary level constructs:

No Caption Provided

Fights and hurts Black Lantern Spectre:

Blasts a hole through Amazo:

No Caption Provided

Versatility:

Matter manipulation, telepathy, flight, invisibility, intangibility, teleportation, time travel.

No Caption Provided

Can copy opponents attacks and redirect them back:

No Caption Provided

Time travelling:

No Caption Provided

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deactivated-5f36de50edb16

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Sy8000

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Hal burns them.

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DeathandGrim

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Hal destroys this fight

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destinyman75

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#75  Edited By destinyman75

I live hal so much better but and he will take out most if this team but in the end team wins

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gingerpenny

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Iron Man could solo Green Lantern, giving him a team is ridiculous, Iron Man and Team wipe...

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gingerpenny

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Hell forget Iron Man, Magneto would show Green Lantern what real power is... Magneto solos

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Stormdriven

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What can the team do in 12 hours that will stop a pissed off Hal?

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LilTWill2000

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Hal stomps.... Bloodlusted... Hell no... No shot no chance... Hal Is incredibly powerful and arguably the strongest lantern behind Kyle...

Stop, Hal stomps...

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willpayton

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#80  Edited By willpayton
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gingerpenny

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@willpayton: very serious, Magneto is one of the most powerful Mutants ever, GL can use the ring to his will, well Magneto can bend any metal to his will. Eric could easily match Hals power

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willpayton

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@willpayton: very serious, Magneto is one of the most powerful Mutants ever, GL can use the ring to his will, well Magneto can bend any metal to his will. Eric could easily match Hals power

Magneto is powerful, but he's not in Hal's league.

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Crafter

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@crafter said:
@thekinfing said:

@crafter: Again, was that officially recton, like Kyle or Hal outright saying that they can't use their powers? If not then it didn't got retcon, its simply out of character, just like Thor with Godblasts and draining, we know that he can still use them, but how often does he?

It is called smooth retcon. He can't use them, it is under his Classic powerset, that's why there is reason, why people indicate the version of Thor in battles, Classic Thor had essentially a walking plot device weapon known as Mjolnir*which is not the same as modern Mjolnir's power). And again Jordan and GLs had freaking 11 years to replicate those feats, and yet they have none of them post-2000s. Lanterns were doing mm on regular basis before 2000s. Even Superman post-2000s showcased at least 2 moonbusting feats, bunch of FTL feats, and many other high-end feats, and on regular basis he doesn't showcase such power.

that's nonsense, there was no change or retcon. Hal has been the same from Crisis up until now. Also, feel free to prove that Hal hasnt done matter manipulation in 16 years. i'll wait.

He had plenty of time to replicate those feats, no lantern post-2000s did any matter manip and other exotic powers. Even Superman in in 11 years busted 2 moons, and did bunch of other high-end feats. And there are bunch of lanterns, so none of them having matter manipulation as well as time manipulation feats post-2000s indicates that they don't possess those powers anymore.

And it is you who needs to prove me that Hal or other GLs did do Matter Manipualtion in Post-2000s, but they didn't, and 11 years is good time to say that they don't possess those powers anymore.

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willpayton

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@crafter said:
@cyborgzod said:
@crafter said:
@thekinfing said:

@crafter: Again, was that officially recton, like Kyle or Hal outright saying that they can't use their powers? If not then it didn't got retcon, its simply out of character, just like Thor with Godblasts and draining, we know that he can still use them, but how often does he?

It is called smooth retcon. He can't use them, it is under his Classic powerset, that's why there is reason, why people indicate the version of Thor in battles, Classic Thor had essentially a walking plot device weapon known as Mjolnir*which is not the same as modern Mjolnir's power). And again Jordan and GLs had freaking 11 years to replicate those feats, and yet they have none of them post-2000s. Lanterns were doing mm on regular basis before 2000s. Even Superman post-2000s showcased at least 2 moonbusting feats, bunch of FTL feats, and many other high-end feats, and on regular basis he doesn't showcase such power.

that's nonsense, there was no change or retcon. Hal has been the same from Crisis up until now. Also, feel free to prove that Hal hasnt done matter manipulation in 16 years. i'll wait.

He had plenty of time to replicate those feats, no lantern post-2000s did any matter manip and other exotic powers. Even Superman in in 11 years busted 2 moons, and did bunch of other high-end feats. And there are bunch of lanterns, so none of them having matter manipulation as well as time manipulation feats post-2000s indicates that they don't possess those powers anymore.

And it is you who needs to prove me that Hal or other GLs did do Matter Manipualtion in Post-2000s, but they didn't, and 11 years is good time to say that they don't possess those powers anymore.

There was no reboot in 2000 or any significant change to the character. Also, it's just your claim that he doesnt have matter-manipulation feats post-2000. Can you prove it? But even if he doesnt, it doesnt really mean he doesnt have those powers. GL has a ton of powers as a fact of his character being what it is. Different writers will invariably use more or less of those powers.

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gingerpenny

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@willpayton: it doesnt matter like i stated earlier, Iron Man can solo Green Lantern. It would be a very even 50/50 match I'll give you that but, Iron Man is in Green Lantern's level and has a fair chance at beating him... without some BS team.

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DragonbellZ

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Tony solos

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Crafter

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@crafter said:
@cyborgzod said:
@crafter said:
@thekinfing said:

@crafter: Again, was that officially recton, like Kyle or Hal outright saying that they can't use their powers? If not then it didn't got retcon, its simply out of character, just like Thor with Godblasts and draining, we know that he can still use them, but how often does he?

It is called smooth retcon. He can't use them, it is under his Classic powerset, that's why there is reason, why people indicate the version of Thor in battles, Classic Thor had essentially a walking plot device weapon known as Mjolnir*which is not the same as modern Mjolnir's power). And again Jordan and GLs had freaking 11 years to replicate those feats, and yet they have none of them post-2000s. Lanterns were doing mm on regular basis before 2000s. Even Superman post-2000s showcased at least 2 moonbusting feats, bunch of FTL feats, and many other high-end feats, and on regular basis he doesn't showcase such power.

that's nonsense, there was no change or retcon. Hal has been the same from Crisis up until now. Also, feel free to prove that Hal hasnt done matter manipulation in 16 years. i'll wait.

He had plenty of time to replicate those feats, no lantern post-2000s did any matter manip and other exotic powers. Even Superman in in 11 years busted 2 moons, and did bunch of other high-end feats. And there are bunch of lanterns, so none of them having matter manipulation as well as time manipulation feats post-2000s indicates that they don't possess those powers anymore.

And it is you who needs to prove me that Hal or other GLs did do Matter Manipualtion in Post-2000s, but they didn't, and 11 years is good time to say that they don't possess those powers anymore.

There was no reboot in 2000 or any significant change to the character. Also, it's just your claim that he doesnt have matter-manipulation feats post-2000. Can you prove it? But even if he doesnt, it doesnt really mean he doesnt have those powers. GL has a ton of powers as a fact of his character being what it is. Different writers will invariably use more or less of those powers.

Show me at least one instance any of GLs showing matter manipulation time manipulation post-2000s, you wouldn't find instances, if they don't show such power for 11 years there is no reason to believe that they possess those powers, and 11 years is no small time, even characters who don't appear that much time in comics like Captain Marvel got high-end feats and even matter manipulation feat(pre-52), in 11 years he at least has one instance and more of using exotic powers, GL post-2000s have none....even Captain Atom(pre-52) was showing bunch of matter manipulation feats in his regular form post-2000s, though in 80-90s he didn't have those powers(except his universe creation inside QF).

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TheKinfing

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@crafter said:
@willpayton said:
@crafter said:
@cyborgzod said:
@crafter said:
@thekinfing said:

@crafter: Again, was that officially recton, like Kyle or Hal outright saying that they can't use their powers? If not then it didn't got retcon, its simply out of character, just like Thor with Godblasts and draining, we know that he can still use them, but how often does he?

It is called smooth retcon. He can't use them, it is under his Classic powerset, that's why there is reason, why people indicate the version of Thor in battles, Classic Thor had essentially a walking plot device weapon known as Mjolnir*which is not the same as modern Mjolnir's power). And again Jordan and GLs had freaking 11 years to replicate those feats, and yet they have none of them post-2000s. Lanterns were doing mm on regular basis before 2000s. Even Superman post-2000s showcased at least 2 moonbusting feats, bunch of FTL feats, and many other high-end feats, and on regular basis he doesn't showcase such power.

that's nonsense, there was no change or retcon. Hal has been the same from Crisis up until now. Also, feel free to prove that Hal hasnt done matter manipulation in 16 years. i'll wait.

He had plenty of time to replicate those feats, no lantern post-2000s did any matter manip and other exotic powers. Even Superman in in 11 years busted 2 moons, and did bunch of other high-end feats. And there are bunch of lanterns, so none of them having matter manipulation as well as time manipulation feats post-2000s indicates that they don't possess those powers anymore.

And it is you who needs to prove me that Hal or other GLs did do Matter Manipualtion in Post-2000s, but they didn't, and 11 years is good time to say that they don't possess those powers anymore.

There was no reboot in 2000 or any significant change to the character. Also, it's just your claim that he doesnt have matter-manipulation feats post-2000. Can you prove it? But even if he doesnt, it doesnt really mean he doesnt have those powers. GL has a ton of powers as a fact of his character being what it is. Different writers will invariably use more or less of those powers.

Show me at least one instance any of GLs showing matter manipulation time manipulation post-2000s, you wouldn't find instances, if they don't show such power for 11 years there is no reason to believe that they possess those powers, and 11 years is no small time, even characters who don't appear that much time in comics like Captain Marvel got high-end feats and even matter manipulation feat(pre-52), in 11 years he at least has one instance and more of using exotic powers, GL post-2000s have none....even Captain Atom(pre-52) was showing bunch of matter manipulation feats in his regular form post-2000s, though in 80-90s he didn't have those powers(except his universe creation inside QF).

Once again, this those powers got retcon? No? Then they still have them.

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Crafter

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@thekinfing:

Then show me feats of them using those powers post-2000s, i even gave examples of characters who don't appear that much in comics yet in 11 years did matter manipulation feats, though they didn't do such things pre-2000s. Green Lanters, who appear in comics more than them, should at least have had one feat of matter manipulation in 11 years, yet they have NONE, if character doesn't showcase such powers in freaking 11 years, then there is no reason to believe that they still can do that. It is like Classic Strange's feats for Current Strange, or Classic Thor's feats for Current Thor, same character, different powers.

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willpayton

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@crafter said:
@willpayton said:
@crafter said:
@cyborgzod said:
@crafter said:
@thekinfing said:

@crafter: Again, was that officially recton, like Kyle or Hal outright saying that they can't use their powers? If not then it didn't got retcon, its simply out of character, just like Thor with Godblasts and draining, we know that he can still use them, but how often does he?

It is called smooth retcon. He can't use them, it is under his Classic powerset, that's why there is reason, why people indicate the version of Thor in battles, Classic Thor had essentially a walking plot device weapon known as Mjolnir*which is not the same as modern Mjolnir's power). And again Jordan and GLs had freaking 11 years to replicate those feats, and yet they have none of them post-2000s. Lanterns were doing mm on regular basis before 2000s. Even Superman post-2000s showcased at least 2 moonbusting feats, bunch of FTL feats, and many other high-end feats, and on regular basis he doesn't showcase such power.

that's nonsense, there was no change or retcon. Hal has been the same from Crisis up until now. Also, feel free to prove that Hal hasnt done matter manipulation in 16 years. i'll wait.

He had plenty of time to replicate those feats, no lantern post-2000s did any matter manip and other exotic powers. Even Superman in in 11 years busted 2 moons, and did bunch of other high-end feats. And there are bunch of lanterns, so none of them having matter manipulation as well as time manipulation feats post-2000s indicates that they don't possess those powers anymore.

And it is you who needs to prove me that Hal or other GLs did do Matter Manipualtion in Post-2000s, but they didn't, and 11 years is good time to say that they don't possess those powers anymore.

There was no reboot in 2000 or any significant change to the character. Also, it's just your claim that he doesnt have matter-manipulation feats post-2000. Can you prove it? But even if he doesnt, it doesnt really mean he doesnt have those powers. GL has a ton of powers as a fact of his character being what it is. Different writers will invariably use more or less of those powers.

Show me at least one instance any of GLs showing matter manipulation time manipulation post-2000s, you wouldn't find instances, if they don't show such power for 11 years there is no reason to believe that they possess those powers, and 11 years is no small time, even characters who don't appear that much time in comics like Captain Marvel got high-end feats and even matter manipulation feat(pre-52), in 11 years he at least has one instance and more of using exotic powers, GL post-2000s have none....even Captain Atom(pre-52) was showing bunch of matter manipulation feats in his regular form post-2000s, though in 80-90s he didn't have those powers(except his universe creation inside QF).

I have some scans, but I dont know from what years or issues they are. But even if they are pre-2000... the fact is that no retcon or character change happened at that time. If you're talking 11 or so years... that's really not that much considering some characters like Thor havent used a power in 50 years and some Thor fans still try to claim them in arguments.

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Crafter

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@crafter said:
@willpayton said:
@crafter said:
@cyborgzod said:
@crafter said:
@thekinfing said:

@crafter: Again, was that officially recton, like Kyle or Hal outright saying that they can't use their powers? If not then it didn't got retcon, its simply out of character, just like Thor with Godblasts and draining, we know that he can still use them, but how often does he?

It is called smooth retcon. He can't use them, it is under his Classic powerset, that's why there is reason, why people indicate the version of Thor in battles, Classic Thor had essentially a walking plot device weapon known as Mjolnir*which is not the same as modern Mjolnir's power). And again Jordan and GLs had freaking 11 years to replicate those feats, and yet they have none of them post-2000s. Lanterns were doing mm on regular basis before 2000s. Even Superman post-2000s showcased at least 2 moonbusting feats, bunch of FTL feats, and many other high-end feats, and on regular basis he doesn't showcase such power.

that's nonsense, there was no change or retcon. Hal has been the same from Crisis up until now. Also, feel free to prove that Hal hasnt done matter manipulation in 16 years. i'll wait.

He had plenty of time to replicate those feats, no lantern post-2000s did any matter manip and other exotic powers. Even Superman in in 11 years busted 2 moons, and did bunch of other high-end feats. And there are bunch of lanterns, so none of them having matter manipulation as well as time manipulation feats post-2000s indicates that they don't possess those powers anymore.

And it is you who needs to prove me that Hal or other GLs did do Matter Manipualtion in Post-2000s, but they didn't, and 11 years is good time to say that they don't possess those powers anymore.

There was no reboot in 2000 or any significant change to the character. Also, it's just your claim that he doesnt have matter-manipulation feats post-2000. Can you prove it? But even if he doesnt, it doesnt really mean he doesnt have those powers. GL has a ton of powers as a fact of his character being what it is. Different writers will invariably use more or less of those powers.

Show me at least one instance any of GLs showing matter manipulation time manipulation post-2000s, you wouldn't find instances, if they don't show such power for 11 years there is no reason to believe that they possess those powers, and 11 years is no small time, even characters who don't appear that much time in comics like Captain Marvel got high-end feats and even matter manipulation feat(pre-52), in 11 years he at least has one instance and more of using exotic powers, GL post-2000s have none....even Captain Atom(pre-52) was showing bunch of matter manipulation feats in his regular form post-2000s, though in 80-90s he didn't have those powers(except his universe creation inside QF).

I have some scans, but I dont know from what years or issues they are. But even if they are pre-2000... the fact is that no retcon or character change happened at that time. If you're talking 11 or so years... that's really not that much considering some characters like Thor havent used a power in 50 years and some Thor fans still try to claim them in arguments.

Then Thor fans shouldn't use feats of him using exotic powers(like Time Manip and such) that he didn't use for more than 10 years or so. And still no feats of Post-2000s Lanterns showcasing Time Manip and Matter Manip, so no reason to claim that they have those powers, 11 years was enough for flying brick like Captain Marvel to show matter manipulation, and the same amount of time was enough for Cap Atom to showcase same matter manipulation, though he had just flying brick powerset+energy manipulation.

Ever heard of smooth retcons? You know small changes and such, like when Superman was just mountain lifter 80s-90s, and became a moon lifter and buster post-2000s, same thing with Lanterns.

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TheKinfing

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@crafter said:
@willpayton said:
@crafter said:
@willpayton said:
@crafter said:
@cyborgzod said:
@crafter said:
@thekinfing said:

@crafter: Again, was that officially recton, like Kyle or Hal outright saying that they can't use their powers? If not then it didn't got retcon, its simply out of character, just like Thor with Godblasts and draining, we know that he can still use them, but how often does he?

It is called smooth retcon. He can't use them, it is under his Classic powerset, that's why there is reason, why people indicate the version of Thor in battles, Classic Thor had essentially a walking plot device weapon known as Mjolnir*which is not the same as modern Mjolnir's power). And again Jordan and GLs had freaking 11 years to replicate those feats, and yet they have none of them post-2000s. Lanterns were doing mm on regular basis before 2000s. Even Superman post-2000s showcased at least 2 moonbusting feats, bunch of FTL feats, and many other high-end feats, and on regular basis he doesn't showcase such power.

that's nonsense, there was no change or retcon. Hal has been the same from Crisis up until now. Also, feel free to prove that Hal hasnt done matter manipulation in 16 years. i'll wait.

He had plenty of time to replicate those feats, no lantern post-2000s did any matter manip and other exotic powers. Even Superman in in 11 years busted 2 moons, and did bunch of other high-end feats. And there are bunch of lanterns, so none of them having matter manipulation as well as time manipulation feats post-2000s indicates that they don't possess those powers anymore.

And it is you who needs to prove me that Hal or other GLs did do Matter Manipualtion in Post-2000s, but they didn't, and 11 years is good time to say that they don't possess those powers anymore.

There was no reboot in 2000 or any significant change to the character. Also, it's just your claim that he doesnt have matter-manipulation feats post-2000. Can you prove it? But even if he doesnt, it doesnt really mean he doesnt have those powers. GL has a ton of powers as a fact of his character being what it is. Different writers will invariably use more or less of those powers.

Show me at least one instance any of GLs showing matter manipulation time manipulation post-2000s, you wouldn't find instances, if they don't show such power for 11 years there is no reason to believe that they possess those powers, and 11 years is no small time, even characters who don't appear that much time in comics like Captain Marvel got high-end feats and even matter manipulation feat(pre-52), in 11 years he at least has one instance and more of using exotic powers, GL post-2000s have none....even Captain Atom(pre-52) was showing bunch of matter manipulation feats in his regular form post-2000s, though in 80-90s he didn't have those powers(except his universe creation inside QF).

I have some scans, but I dont know from what years or issues they are. But even if they are pre-2000... the fact is that no retcon or character change happened at that time. If you're talking 11 or so years... that's really not that much considering some characters like Thor havent used a power in 50 years and some Thor fans still try to claim them in arguments.

Then Thor fans shouldn't use feats of him using exotic powers(like Time Manip and such) that he didn't use for more than 10 years or so. And still no feats of Post-2000s Lanterns showcasing Time Manip and Matter Manip, so no reason to claim that they have those powers, 11 years was enough for flying brick like Captain Marvel to show matter manipulation, and the same amount of time was enough for Cap Atom to showcase same matter manipulation, though he had just flying brick powerset+energy manipulation.

Ever heard of smooth retcons? You know small changes and such, like when Superman was just mountain lifter 80s-90s, and became a moon lifter and buster post-2000s, same thing with Lanterns.

That is wrong,Superman actually got upgrades as his Post-Crisis Carrier went on, one of them was at Our Worlds at War, he didn't got retconned or anything, and you still haven't prove me anything.

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@thekinfing:

That is wrong,Superman actually got upgrades as his Post-Crisis Carrier went on, one of them was at Our Worlds at War, he didn't got retconned or anything, and you still haven't prove me anything.

He didn't have any upgrades, Sun-dipping is not an upgrade, it is more like his Super Saiyan Form, and in that form he is way more powerful than he is on his regualar form, and still in 80s-90s he didn't showcase MOONBUSTING power, in post-2000s he did so, twice.

As for Lanterns, it is you who actually has to prove that they still possess Time Manip and Matter Manip post-2000s, though they don't have feats for that, and 11 years is a big time for getting feats, yet they have none, even flying brick like Captain Marvel who has small appearances compared to Lanterns showcased Matter Manip in 11 years.

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TheKinfing

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@crafter said:

@thekinfing:

That is wrong,Superman actually got upgrades as his Post-Crisis Carrier went on, one of them was at Our Worlds at War, he didn't got retconned or anything, and you still haven't prove me anything.

He didn't have any upgrades, Sun-dipping is not an upgrade, it is more like his Super Saiyan Form, and in that form he is way more powerful than he is on his regualar form, and still in 80s-90s he didn't showcase MOONBUSTING power, in post-2000s he did so, twice.

He did got upgrades, just like most, if not all DC character from the start of the Post-Crisis continuity until right before Flashpoint, Superman at first wasn't a moon-buster, Diana could be harmed by bullets, Wally was limited to Mach 1, J'ohn didn't have Planeraty TP(or if he had he didn't showcased frequently), but as the time went on writers started to make them more and more powerful.

As for Lanterns, it is you who actually has to prove that they still possess Time Manip and Matter Manip post-2000s, though they don't have feats for that, and 11 years is a big time for getting feats, yet they have none, even flying brick like Captain Marvel who has small appearances compared to Lanterns showcased Matter Manip in 11 years.

Show me the retcon, If you can't then I see no reason for this conversation to keep going.

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willpayton

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@crafter said:

Then Thor fans shouldn't use feats of him using exotic powers(like Time Manip and such) that he didn't use for more than 10 years or so. And still no feats of Post-2000s Lanterns showcasing Time Manip and Matter Manip, so no reason to claim that they have those powers, 11 years was enough for flying brick like Captain Marvel to show matter manipulation, and the same amount of time was enough for Cap Atom to showcase same matter manipulation, though he had just flying brick powerset+energy manipulation.

Ever heard of smooth retcons? You know small changes and such, like when Superman was just mountain lifter 80s-90s, and became a moon lifter and buster post-2000s, same thing with Lanterns.

Unless the writers or DC comics says there was a character change or retcon, then there wasnt.

Here's some scans of Hal doing matter manipulation:

Hal creates wooden insects.  Not constructs, they're actually made of wood.
Hal creates wooden insects. Not constructs, they're actually made of wood.
Manipulates the molecular structure of an object
Manipulates the molecular structure of an object
Reverses Adam Strange being transmuted into water
Transforms himself into an insect

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Crafter

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@thekinfing:

He did got upgrades, just like most, if not all DC character from the start of the Post-Crisis continuity until right before Flashpoint, Superman at first wasn't a moon-buster,

Yep, but he became so post-2000s and did it twice. And it wasn't explained why suddenly mountain lifter becomes moon buster, same thing with GLs, no explanation and for more than 11 years no feats of having TM and MM.

Diana could be harmed by bullets,

She can still be harmed by bullets.

Wally was limited to Mach 1,

Nope, he was not limited to Mach, he was faster than Mach 1 that's for sure, but still below lightspeed, and his powerupgrade was explained via mental blocks that prevented him becoming Barry's equal and later his superior.

J'ohn didn't have Planeraty TP(or if he had he didn't showcased frequently),

Yep.

but as the time went on writers started to make them more and more powerful.

Yep, but not GLs that's for sure, no TM and MM for more than 10 years.

Show me the retcon, If you can't then I see no reason for this conversation to keep going.

Show me ANY Lantern using TM and MM post-2000s. You can't, because they don't have those feats.

And you asking me show retcon, is basically you asking me show retcon why suddenly mountain lifting Supes became moon buster, there is no explanation it just happened, same thing with GLs.

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willpayton

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@crafter said:

@thekinfing:

That is wrong,Superman actually got upgrades as his Post-Crisis Carrier went on, one of them was at Our Worlds at War, he didn't got retconned or anything, and you still haven't prove me anything.

He didn't have any upgrades, Sun-dipping is not an upgrade, it is more like his Super Saiyan Form, and in that form he is way more powerful than he is on his regualar form, and still in 80s-90s he didn't showcase MOONBUSTING power, in post-2000s he did so, twice.

As for Lanterns, it is you who actually has to prove that they still possess Time Manip and Matter Manip post-2000s, though they don't have feats for that, and 11 years is a big time for getting feats, yet they have none, even flying brick like Captain Marvel who has small appearances compared to Lanterns showcased Matter Manip in 11 years.

Where are you pulling this "11 years" number out of? Is there a rule somewhere that says that if character doesnt use a power in 11 years then it no longer exists? No... there isnt.

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Crafter

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@willpayton:

Let's see, huh.

1st: It is blatant lie, Hal didn't create any wooden bugs, he was fighting against them, and it was pre-2000s, thus irrelevant.

2nd one: Hal simply fixed molecular patterns, that's not molecular manipulation, like transmutation, and it was pre-2000s also.

3rd one: He destroys the thing that was transmuting Adam's clothes and weapons into weapons, and we don't see Hal doing any transmutation, he simply destroyed the device, thus reversed the transformation.

As for the last one, your scans don't show him Transforming into bug and back to human, we see him already in those forms, and it is pretty obvious, that there are gaps between pages and panels, so i would like you to provide the name of the comic, from which those scans are.

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#99  Edited By Crafter

@crafter said:

@thekinfing:

That is wrong,Superman actually got upgrades as his Post-Crisis Carrier went on, one of them was at Our Worlds at War, he didn't got retconned or anything, and you still haven't prove me anything.

He didn't have any upgrades, Sun-dipping is not an upgrade, it is more like his Super Saiyan Form, and in that form he is way more powerful than he is on his regualar form, and still in 80s-90s he didn't showcase MOONBUSTING power, in post-2000s he did so, twice.

As for Lanterns, it is you who actually has to prove that they still possess Time Manip and Matter Manip post-2000s, though they don't have feats for that, and 11 years is a big time for getting feats, yet they have none, even flying brick like Captain Marvel who has small appearances compared to Lanterns showcased Matter Manip in 11 years.

Where are you pulling this "11 years" number out of? Is there a rule somewhere that says that if character doesnt use a power in 11 years then it no longer exists? No... there isnt.

It is simple logic, if character doesn't showcase such powers for a VERY prolonged amount of time, then there is no reason to believe that he still has them. And again if he had those powers he would have at least one feat of Time Manip and such for he had plenty of time to gain feats.

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willpayton

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@crafter said:

@willpayton:

Let's see, huh.

1st: It is blatant lie, Hal didn't create any wooden bugs, he was fighting against them, and it was pre-2000s, thus irrelevant.

Wrong, Hal was subconsciously creating the wooden bugs. Also, please prove that this was pre-2000.

@crafter said:

2nd one: Hal simply fixed molecular patterns, that's not molecular manipulation, like transmutation, and it was pre-2000s also.

He was manipulating the molecules. Do I have to spell it out for you? Also, please prove that this was pre-2000.

@crafter said:

3rd one: He destroys the thing that was transmuting Adam's clothes and weapons into weapons, and we don't see Hal doing any transmutation, he simply destroyed the device, thus reversed the transformation.

Wrong. It wasnt Adam Strange's clothes, it was his entire body. It's very clear in the scan. And Hal destroys the decide in panel #1 of the second page, then fixed Strange's body in panel #2.

@crafter said:

As for the last one, your scans don't show him Transforming into bug and back to human, we see him already in those forms, and it is pretty obvious, that there are gaps between pages and panels, so i would like you to provide the name of the comic, from which those scans are.

The scan doesnt show it because I dont have a scan of that page, but yes Hal transformed himself into that insect. Also, this is from a comic from just 5 years ago.