From what I've seen its being implied that Roger was on a completely different level than the current top tiers. Even more so than Greenbull and Fujitora who I expect to be slightly weaker than the OG Admirals.
I think Roger takes this. Whats your opinion?
Roger no diffs the both of them
Add Kizaru and he still wins.
Roger babyshakes them at the same time.
Gol D Roger is not low diffing two admirals. In fact he is not even winning.
Roger scales to prime Whitebeard, Garp, and Sengoku. Akainu scales above prime Garp and Sengoku through multiple statements, hype, portrayal and through narrator comments (like Akainu making the Navy the strongest it’s ever been, etc). Yet you think the Admirals can’t win even though Greenbull and Fujitora scale to people like Aokiji and Kizaru who both are portrayed as at LEAST comparable to Akainu (Not to mention Admirals have been shown to be able to essentially solo a yonko’s crew, like Akainu in marineford, then Greenbull no diffing an “injured” King/Queen, King has one of the best durability’s in the verse).
Not to mention Fujitora has some of the best feats out there as well as even scaling far above Kid’s awakened magnetism. The same magnetism which could hinder a physical powerhouse like Big Mom who can clash with Kaido for fun. Remember Big Mom base stats no doubt outclass Roger’s in almost every way not to mention Big Mom is much larger than Roger and more durable.
EDIT: Additionally, the admirals know each others strengths and work together so they would have good teamwork. Fujitora has incredible support abilities along with levitation, and spam meteors. With Greenbull having the ability to attack by making a Forest of death he can attack from multiple angles with ease to overwhelm Roger.
Roger wins Mid Diff
Gol D Roger is not low diffing two admirals. In fact he is not even winning.
Roger scales to prime Whitebeard, Garp, and Sengoku. Akainu scales above prime Garp and Sengoku through multiple statements, hype, portrayal and through narrator comments (like Akainu making the Navy the strongest it’s ever been, etc). Yet you think the Admirals can’t win even though Greenbull and Fujitora scale to people like Aokiji and Kizaru who both are portrayed as at LEAST comparable to Akainu (Not to mention Admirals have been shown to be able to essentially solo a yonko’s crew, like Akainu in marineford, then Greenbull no diffing an “injured” King/Queen, King has one of the best durability’s in the verse).
Not to mention Fujitora has some of the best feats out there as well as even scaling far above Kid’s awakened magnetism. The same magnetism which could hinder a physical powerhouse like Big Mom who can clash with Kaido for fun. Remember Big Mom base stats no doubt outclass Roger’s in almost every way not to mention Big Mom is much larger than Roger and more durable.
EDIT: Additionally, the admirals know each others strengths and work together so they would have good teamwork. Fujitora has incredible support abilities along with levitation, and spam meteors. With Greenbull having the ability to attack by making a Forest of death he can attack from multiple angles with ease to overwhelm Roger.
Roger scales above Prime Whitebeard; he has no DF and can still out perform the others. Roger and Garp also took down the Rocks Pirates which included a Younger Whitebeard. They are buddies but Whitebeard is not at Rogers level. Greenbull only won due to them being injured, it is pretty clear as day with that. Plus his DF gives him a solid advantage against their zoan abilities.
Fujitora has great feats, but unless he awakens his DF power, he is not affecting Roger with his gravity.
Shanks' haki is so OP he scared the shit out of Greenbull. What you think his idol, Roger could do when he gets serious?
That hype alone is enough to proclaim Roger would low diff the admirals.
@kajin_style: Roger doesn’t scale above Primebeard he along with Garp and Sengoku ALL scale to each other. Whitebeard and Roger literally clashed and we saw them as at least comparable in Haki both knowing advanced forms of all Haki (assumedly).
“Greenbull only won due to them being injured,” you say that but Greenbull literally said for them to not test him and that it would be a disgrace for an Admiral to lose to pirate subordinates he just called Yonko commanders just subordinates. King injured or not still has his crazy durability which rivals even Kaido’s and yet Greenbull hurt him with ease. Not to mention I always hear how “but King and Queen were injured” but it’s like so what they had a whole week to rest and they both are ancient zoans. Not to mention King is Lunarian (Known for their resilience) and Queen is a cyborg (Enhanced Body) so they should be even more likely to be healthy.
As for Fuji being not able to effect Roger without using an awakening I call that outright disrespect. I’ve said this before but Fujitora’s Casual non-awakened Gravity feats still outright out class Kidd’s Serious awakened Magnetic feats. And since Big Mom has no doubt better base physicals than Roger (not to mention a larger body) I see NO reason why Fujitora’s Gravity would be unable to affect someone weaker in stats like Roger when they have a stronger attracting/repelling force.
As for Shanks Haki being attributed to Roger I just don’t think that is the case by all intents and purposes from what we know it seems like Shanks is supposed to be a master of Conquerors Haki. So saying Roger could do the same even though Shanks has shown abilities that no one not even Roger has exhibited to me is disingenuous. As just because someone looks up to someone doesn’t mean that person can do everything they can as with your logic Shanks being the idol of Luffy he should be able to turn into the Sun God Nika but we he can’t.
As for the “hype alone is enough to proclaim Roger would low diff the admirals” by that same logic Akainu would oneshot every yonko (including Roger), Imu would one shot the entire navy, and Ryuma would one shot Mihawk.
Hype while it can be good that doesn’t mean you should just base power on it alone. While yes hype/portrayal can be used to scale a character to their perceived power level that doesn’t mean you should just look at hype and ignore other factors (like say Akainu low key having the highest hype of all besides maybe Imu or Blackbeard).
@kajin_style: Roger doesn’t scale above Primebeard he along with Garp and Sengoku ALL scale to each other. Whitebeard and Roger literally clashed and we saw them as at least comparable in Haki both knowing advanced forms of all Haki (assumedly).
“Greenbull only won due to them being injured,” you say that but Greenbull literally said for them to not test him and that it would be a disgrace for an Admiral to lose to pirate subordinates he just called Yonko commanders just subordinates. King injured or not still has his crazy durability which rivals even Kaido’s and yet Greenbull hurt him with ease. Not to mention I always hear how “but King and Queen were injured” but it’s like so what they had a whole week to rest and they both are ancient zoans. Not to mention King is Lunarian (Known for their resilience) and Queen is a cyborg (Enhanced Body) so they should be even more likely to be healthy.
As for Fuji being not able to effect Roger without using an awakening I call that outright disrespect. I’ve said this before but Fujitora’s Casual non-awakened Gravity feats still outright out class Kidd’s Serious awakened Magnetic feats. And since Big Mom has no doubt better base physicals than Roger (not to mention a larger body) I see NO reason why Fujitora’s Gravity would be unable to affect someone weaker in stats like Roger when they have a stronger attracting/repelling force.
As for Shanks Haki being attributed to Roger I just don’t think that is the case by all intents and purposes from what we know it seems like Shanks is supposed to be a master of Conquerors Haki. So saying Roger could do the same even though Shanks has shown abilities that no one not even Roger has exhibited to me is disingenuous. As just because someone looks up to someone doesn’t mean that person can do everything they can as with your logic Shanks being the idol of Luffy he should be able to turn into the Sun God Nika but we he can’t.
As for the “hype alone is enough to proclaim Roger would low diff the admirals” by that same logic Akainu would oneshot every yonko (including Roger), Imu would one shot the entire navy, and Ryuma would one shot Mihawk.
Hype while it can be good that doesn’t mean you should just base power on it alone. While yes hype/portrayal can be used to scale a character to their perceived power level that doesn’t mean you should just look at hype and ignore other factors (like say Akainu low key having the highest hype of all besides maybe Imu or Blackbeard).
You forget the part where Rogers and Garp defeated the Rocks Pirates who had a younger whitebeard, Big Mom and Kaido in the crew, along with their captain. That powerhouse group got taken out but a Roger and Garp team up. This alone is why Roger scales above Whitebeard.
Greenbull didn't hurt them, he sucked them dry with his plant powers. That gave him the easy win, since they were already injured. On top of that we don't know the circumstances of the fight, for we know Greenbull snuck on them and got an easy win via sneak attack.
Fujitora's power won't work without awakening. We saw this with Law, who mentioned his powers doesn't work on Kaido and Big Mom cause of their haki. He was referring to their conqueror's haki, as it is the only thing that can do a full body shielding. If Law couldn't use his spatial powers on BM and Kaido, then Fuji's ability is mostly certainly not working on the Pirate King himself.
If Shanks was better than Roger, then he would've gone and grabbed the One Piece himself but he didn't. Something was holding him back, something was in his way. Only now does he think he is ready to do this. To assume Shanks is somehow better than Rogers or even his equal is silly and there is nothing so far that proves it. We only got a taste of Roger's power in Oden's flashback.
Akainu has no hype. He got smacked down into the earth by a weakened, battered, severely ill, old age ridden, no haki using Whitebeard. That alone is proof enough where the admiral stands to the Yonkos.
On top of that, people think the Admirals are so great yet back in the Marineford war there was 3 admirals and when Shanks showed up, they collectively shit themselves. They could barely beat back a group of Yonko Commanders each, they certainly weren't taking out one who has mastered Conqueror's Haki.
@kajin_style: I think you need to reread a few chapters…
1) You forget the part where Rogers and Garp defeated the Rocks Pirates.
First of all whitebeard is three years younger than Roger and remember what Sengoku said about the Rocks pirates. He said that they didn’t work together also Roger/Garp fought young versions of Whitebeard, Kaido, and Big Mom not there primes (Kaido was an apprentice!). To say that youngbeard was even close to his later primebeard self and therefore Roger scales above him is like saying since Buggy scales above Loguetown Luffy therefore current (prime) Buggy must also out scale current Luffy. I’ll tell you now that logic doesn’t work especially when you consider that then again Primebeard is shown to be equal to Prime Roger along with Garp, and even Sengoku when they were all in their primes.
2) Greenbull didn't hurt them, he sucked them dry with his plant powers. That gave him the easy win, since they were already injured. On top of that we don't know the circumstances of the fight, for we know Greenbull snuck on them and got an easy win via sneak attack.
This convinces me you didn’t read the correct translation or are being willfully ignorant as Greenbull literally says and I quote “I warned you not to test me, didn’t I?! A guy in my position can’t go around getting beat by pirate subordinates!! The Navy doesn’t have any spare manpower to send around performing clean up… And you’re just who I though you were!!”
Mind you Greenbull is literally stomping on top of Queen and that Greenbull’s vines have pierced both King (incredible durability) a Lunarian and Queen a cybernetically enhanced human. Additionally, both King and Queen are Ancient zoan users which are known for their stamina, durability and recoverability (they had a whole week to heal aswell).
3) Fujitora's power won't work without awakening. We saw this with Law, who couldn't use his spatial powers on BM and Kaido, then Fuji's ability is mostly certainly not working on the Pirate King himself.
Literal headcanon all law said was that their Haki was to immense so he couldn’t move them not that his DF’s techniques weren’t working or anything like that (Laws other moves like injection shot, takt, and such still worked). Additionally, Fujitora’s power isn’t like Law’s spacial hax so it makes no sense that suddenly his gravity now wouldn’t work on yonko. And even if you want to say that Fujitora’s gravity can’t directly affect a target what is stopping Fuji from just using his gravity on the air or some debris to the same effect so it changes literally nothing.
4) If Shanks was better than Roger, then he would've gone and grabbed the One Piece himself but he didn't. Only now does he think he is ready to do this. To assume Shanks is somehow better than Rogers or even his equal is silly and there is nothing so far that proves it. We only got a taste of Roger's power in Oden's flashback.
The reason why Shanks might’ve not been able to go after the One Piece could be because a) he doesn’t have all the Stones b) doesn’t have a translator c) he waited for Luffy to become a great pirate d) he waited for the other yonko to be defeated, e) waiting for joyboy, etc so to say the only reason why Shanks didn’t go after the One Piece was because “he wasn’t as strong/er than Roger.” It’s disingenuous as there many plausible reasons why he waited with the most evident being he waited for Luffy. Also as for the Shanks being as strong/er than Roger it’d make sense narratively and for what we know Shanks has shown more of what he is capable of along with special moves (Film Red). While the only thing Roger has on shanks is Voice of all things something which is for all we know not even applicable to combat.
Then as for Roger hurting Oden… like so? Oden while strong from what we know he would lose to Zoro and it’s not even close. Oden got oneshotted by a base Kaido from like 20+ years ago with a no name attack while Zoro takes MULTIPLE Thunder Baguas from a current (Prime) hybrid Kaido. And Zoro with ashura dealt a scar to a hybrid (not dragon form) prime Kaido. And this Zoro still hasn’t hit his peak yet not to mention he hasn’t mastered Enma either and yet these feats are LEAGUES above what Oden has done and we still haven’t talked about Zoro stopping a combined attack from two Yonko.
5) Akainu has no hype. He got smacked down into the earth by a weakened, battered, severely ill, old age ridden, no haki using Whitebeard. That alone is proof enough where the admiral stands to the Yonkos.
What are you reading there is plenty of hype for Akainu within the story and out of it must I list them all again?!
As for Akainu getting “smacked down” you seem to forget that it wasn’t so much as a “smack down” as it was Oldbeard opening a ravine beneath Akainu’s feet. Not to mention the damage Whitebeard did resulted in no lasting impact as Akainu was gone for not even one chapter. Akainu while underground actively circled round the pirates and erupted in the midst of them. I still don’t know why people somehow think Akainu lost the battle when Akainu essentially killed Whitebeard and in response all he could do was make Akainu bleed a bit a fall into a ravine. Akainu after essentially murdering Whitebeard then proceeded to solo Ivankov, Inazuma, Jimbei, Marco, Vista, the rest of WB’s crew and even crocodile.
6) On top of that, people think the Admirals are so great yet back in the Marineford war there was 3 admirals and when Shanks showed up, they collectively shit themselves. They could barely beat back a group of Yonko Commanders each, they certainly weren't taking out one who has mastered Conqueror's Haki.
Selective memory much… they weren’t surprised by Shanks as much as they were surprised by the fact that he somehow got to marineford even though just yesterday he confronted Kaido. Additionally, the only ones who were surprised were Sengoku who feared that marineford would be destroyed, and Akainu who was surprised someone protected Coby a fodder marine. Kizaru was chilling and straight up ignored Benn Beckman while Aokiji just did his thing as all of the admirals straight up ignored Shanks and attacked Luffy anyways. The only reason the war even ended was because Sengoku had respect for Whitebeard and Ace being the son of Roger and “grandson” of Garp so he let them leave. If Sengoku never said stop the war the slaughter wouldn’t have even ended.
Edit: Some Grammer. And fixed up a few sentences so they were easier to read.
EDIT: More Grammer and fixed an accidental misnaming.
Roger should win. He was equal with Whitebeard in strength in his prime, and Whitebeard was stronger than Akainu despite diminished strength and Haki at Marineford. The Pirate King shouldn't have issues slicing through probably the weakest Admirals.
@cocacolaman: Oldbeard is not stronger than Akainu. Akainu straight up obliterated Oldbeard and even with the best WB could muster he couldn’t deal any real damage being only able to drop him into a ravine. In the ravine it wasn’t like Akainu was holed away licking his wounds or temporarily knocked unconscious he was still working as he was melting a tunnel to circle around the pirates to erupt amongst them and continue chasing Luffy. Akainu also solo’d Whitebeards whole crew along with Ivankov, Inazuma, Jimbei, and Crocodile. So from what we understand from Marineford war is that an Admiral like Akainu can essentially solo the entire Whitebeard Pirates not to mention Akainu and the admirals have only gotten stronger.
Not to mention Akainu as I have said scales above both Prime Garp and Prime Sengoku. Then Aokiji scales to Akainu, while people like Kizaru, Fujitora, and Greenbull also are at least comparable as they are all admirals. I could talk more about the other admirals but I think I’ve talked about them enough in my previous posts.
Edit: More Grammer fixes. And helped try to make things a little more legible.
Roger has this in the bag. Shank's conquerors paralyzed Greenbull and made him scream in pain, Roger should be able to do the same, if not worse and Fujitora got bandages from a battle against Sabo and Revolutionaries even though he had Greenbull by his side, so I can't see him competing against Roger either.
1) Roger has this in the bag. Shank's conquerors paralyzed Greenbull and made him scream in pain, Roger should be able to do the same, if not worse.
Paralyzed? What we clearly see him move and he even talks? Was he in pain? No… he was flinching and surprised because you know there was a second Yonko nearby who was communicating to him with conquerors somehow (of which was reminiscent of the Voice of All Things weirdly enough). Also Greenbull literally said he would fight the Red Hair Pirates but not yet because you know he was in enemy territory with now multiple Yonko nearby and a bunch of powerful pirates like Law, and Kid too.
2) Fujitora got bandages from a battle against Sabo and Revolutionaries even though he had Greenbull by his side, so I can't see him competing against Roger either.
Was Fujitora dropping dozens of meteors into Mariejois… Was Fujitora lifting Mountains upon Mountains easily and destroying Mariejois… Was Greenbull turning Mariejois into a forest of death… Was Greenbull spawning deadly plants everywhere in Mariejois…
As for Sabo his mission was a rescue mission… the revolutionaries left when they got Kuma after stalling two holding back admirals… As for Bandages they only matter when it’s preskip Zoro and post marineford Luffy because Boa for some reason has bandages even though she had like literally one “clash” with Blackbeard weeks ago.
Edit: Fixed some Grammer and made the last bit easier to read. And separated some stuff for better comprehension.
@plaguedocter said:
First of all whitebeard is three years younger than Roger and remember what Sengoku said about the Rocks pirates. He said that they didn’t work together also Roger/Garp fought young versions of Whitebeard, Kaido, and Big Mom not there primes (Kaido was an apprentice!).
That's not what he said. Sengoku talked about how violent the group was and how they killed their own. This does not mean the top members didn't work together. You are making assumptions.
This convinces me you didn’t read the correct translation or are being willfully ignorant as Greenbull literally says and I quote “I warned you not to test me, didn’t I?! A guy in my position can’t go around getting beat by pirate subordinates!! The Navy doesn’t have any spare manpower to send around performing clean up… And you’re just who I though you were!!”
Making more assumptions in how the fight played out. Greenbull is acting tough cause he won the fight. Remember, the other admirals had trouble with Whitebeard's commanders. A few commanders can be a serious threat.
Literal headcanon all law said was that their Haki was to immense so he couldn’t move them not that his DF’s techniques weren’t working or anything like that (Laws other moves like injection shot, takt, and such still worked). Additionally, Fujitora’s power isn’t like Law’s spacial hax so it makes no sense that suddenly his gravity now wouldn’t work on yonko. And even if you want to say that Fujitora’s gravity can’t directly affect a target what is stopping Fuji from just using his gravity on the air or some debris to the same effect so it changes literally nothing.
Yes, Law's other DF abilities worked cause they were direct attacks and yet his spatial teleporting, aka his hax ability, didn't work. So it is easy to assume non-damaging DF effects won't work, you know like all the hax abilities. So Fuji's gravity failing to work makes sense.
The reason why Shanks might’ve not been able to go after the One Piece could be because a) he doesn’t have all the Stones b) doesn’t have a translator c) he waited for Luffy to become a great pirate d) he waited for the other yonko to be defeated, e) waiting for joyboy, etc so to say the only reason why Shanks didn’t go after the One Piece was because “he wasn’t as strong/er than Roger.” It’s disingenuous as there many plausible reasons why he waited with the most evident being he waited for Luffy. Also as for the Shanks being as strong/er than Roger it’d make sense narratively and for what we know Shanks has shown more of what he is capable of along with special moves (Film Red). While the only thing Roger has on shanks is Voice of all things something which is for all we know not even applicable to combat.
None of those reasons make sense; including waiting for Joyboy to appear cause then he had some kind of future info he relied on. Roger knew he arrived too early; Shanks didn't because he stayed behind with Buggy. Whatever Roger learned on Laugh tale, Shanks didn't learn.
Then as for Roger hurting Oden… like so? Oden while strong from what we know he would lose to Zoro and it’s not even close. Oden got oneshotted by a base Kaido from like 20+ years ago with a no name attack while Zoro takes MULTIPLE Thunder Baguas from a current (Prime) hybrid Kaido. And Zoro with ashura dealt a scar to a hybrid (not dragon form) prime Kaido. And this Zoro still hasn’t hit his peak yet not to mention he hasn’t mastered Enma either and yet these feats are LEAGUES above what Oden has done and we still haven’t talked about Zoro stopping a combined attack from two Yonko.
Wrong! Current Zoro would lose to Oden. He just realized how much haki he has to put into Emma just to be on par with Oden. He is not better than Oden yet. The only reason Oden got one-shotted was cause he got distracted by the fake Momo while Kaido swung at him.
As for Akainu getting “smacked down” you seem to forget that it wasn’t so much as a “smack down” as it was Oldbeard opening a ravine beneath Akainu’s feet. Not to mention the damage Whitebeard did resulted in no lasting impact as Akainu was gone for not even one chapter. Akainu while underground actively circled round the pirates and erupted in the midst of them. I still don’t know why people somehow think Akainu lost the battle when Akainu essentially killed Whitebeard and in response all he could do was make Akainu bleed a bit a fall into a ravine. Akainu after essentially murdering Whitebeard then proceeded to solo Ivankov, Inazuma, Jimbei, Marco, Vista, the rest of WB’s crew and even crocodile.
Akainu was bleeding, what do you mean no lasting impact! Akainu tried to kill Whitebeard but he couldn't finish the old man and got knocked down that chasm. Whitebeard kept going, took more damage from others and then from Blackbeard's crew and only after did he die. Akainu was not the reason he died.
Selective memory much… they weren’t surprised by Shanks as much as they were surprised by the fact that he somehow got to marineford even though just yesterday he confronted Kaido. Additionally, the only ones who were surprised were Sengoku who feared that marineford would be destroyed, and Akainu who was surprised someone protected Coby a fodder marine. Kizaru was chilling and straight up ignored Benn Beckman while Aokiji just did his thing as all of the admirals straight up ignored Shanks and attacked Luffy anyways. The only reason the war even ended was because Sengoku had respect for Whitebeard and Ace being the son of Roger and “grandson” of Garp so he let them leave. If Sengoku never said stop the war the slaughter wouldn’t have even ended.
lol Akainu was shocked and scared at the sight of Shanks just a few feet from him. Kizaru put his hands up when Ben Beckman pointed his gun at him. None of the admirals wanted to fight Shanks and his crew and instead focused on something else you know like trying to stop Luffy. It was after seeing this that Shanks declared if either side wanted to continue fighting, he would fight them that's when Sengoku ended the war. If he let it continued; Shanks crew would've mopped the place up along with the Whitebeard commanders.
@plaguedocter: sorry but that is rubbish, Akainu scaling above Prime Garp...what?!
And not all admirals are equal, it is heavily implied that Akainu and Kuzan outrank the others. Akainu would likely mid-diff Greenbull.
So let's see, we have Gol D. Roger, who was the equal of Prime WB and fought him for fun and casually swatted away someone as strong as Oden, Roger who scales well above Shanks (who made Greenbull tremble with a haki flex), versus the two weakest admirals.
Roger low diffs. Replace these two with Akainu and Kuzan to make it remotely interesting. The poll really speaks for itself.
#endtheadmiralwank
1) That's not what he said. Sengoku talked about how violent the group was and how they killed their own. This does not mean the top members didn't work together. You are making assumptions.
Them being violent, in constant in fighting, and killing each other doesn't speak to me "oh these guys work together." In fact we know that Rocks D. Xebec broke taboo's, acting like a terrorist and attempting to be "King of the World" speaking more to the fact that their crew was chaotic. Not to mention you talk about how "this does not mean the top members didn't work together" even though we both know that Kaido and Big Mom have a very strenuous rivalry. Whitebeard is a person of upstanding character, and many more who all have conflicting relationships and ideals. while you call it an "assumption" from what we know it is all but confirmed that they all didn't work together.
2) Making more assumptions in how the fight played out. Greenbull is acting tough cause he won the fight. Remember, the other admirals had trouble with Whitebeard's commanders. A few commanders can be a serious threat.
Making assumptions? Greenbull literally says what happened? He has no reason to lie in fact if anything it is Oda giving us directly what happened through the voice of Greenbull since for the most part what happened was off screened and Greenbull quite literally just recapped what happened (and it's not as if what he says goes agianst what we already know about the strength of Admirals).
Had trouble with Whitebeards commanders? What? You reading the same Manga the Marineford war was a decisive victory for the Navy. Kizaru literally toyed with Marco saying things like "Oh, Whitebeard pirates are so scary," "Hmm, this really hurts" after blocking Marco of which Marco responds calling him a liar (Kizaru wasn't hurt/in pain). Then yo have things like the infamous Kizaru and Ben Beckman bit where Kizaru is like "Whoa... Whoa... Benn Beckman' then he proceeded to straight up ignore him and attack Luffy anyways while Ben watched on doing nothing (the same Ben Beckman who people think is comparable to Shanks). Aokiji only got hit once when he was fighting Whitebeard in 1v1 and it was by Jozu who only managed to essenhtailly bloody his lip for one panel with no lasting damage. But when Jozu was caught off guard Aokiji, he flash froze Jozu easily. Then we have Akainu soling the entire whitebeard crew, and more yet you still say "A few Commanders can be a serious threat" when we have multiple instances of Admirals clashing with multiple commander level threats and walking through them as the best they can do is hold them off for a bit before one mishap gets them and their almost down for the count.
3) Yes, Law's other DF abilities worked cause they were direct attacks and yet his spatial teleporting, aka his hax ability, didn't work. So it is easy to assume non-damaging DF effects won't work, you know like all the hax abilities. So Fuji's gravity failing to work makes sense.
Ok, lets assume for your sake that for some ungodly reason that Fujitora (who has better attraction feats than Kid and outscales him) can't directly use his gravity on the yonkos... So what like I said it changes like nothing as just as I said nothing is stopping Fujitora from just using his gravity to indirectly affect someone like by using it on debris, the air, or whatever to weight down someone.
4) None of those reasons make sense; including waiting for Joyboy to appear cause then he had some kind of future info he relied on. Roger knew he arrived too early; Shanks didn't because he stayed behind with Buggy. Whatever Roger learned on Laugh tale, Shanks didn't learn.
You know after Roger returned Shanks went and asked him something only to cry afterwards if your looking for something where important information could've been passed on from Roger to Shanks that could be it (Not to mention there are alot of Roger's Crew members out there so Shanks coulda asked them). Also why can't options a), b), c), and d) not work... they are all valid reasons for not wanting to go after the one piece. Not to mention those aren't even all the reasons Shanks could have for not wanting to go after the one piece as Shanks is inherently a mysterious character like having connections to the Gorosei, potentially being a celestial dragon etc.
5) Wrong! Current Zoro would lose to Oden. He just realized how much haki he has to put into Emma just to be on par with Oden. He is not better than Oden yet. The only reason Oden got one-shotted was cause he got distracted by the fake Momo while Kaido swung at him.
The Enma thing is more of a control thing, a swordsmen thing as swords have been shown to have a type of "mind" to them choosing wielders and such (Cursed blades, etc) so Zoro not being able to wield Enma is not so much as a power thing (although you do need Haki) it is more of a are you worthy thing (think of Sword in the Stone as for one to wield it they must be worthy and capable to do so). While I can agree Zoro isn't as good at using Enma, YET! I have to utterly and outright disagree entirely with the notion that Oden is stronger than current Zoro as not only does Zoro have WAY better feats than Oden but we even have feats where they are a striaght up better version of what Oden endured.
You cite that Oden was only oneshotted because "Momo" was there and he was caught off guard. But isn't that what blitzing is being caught of guard except one is through mental warfare (Momo) while the other is through speed to hit a person before they can react and get up a defense in time.
Also the Kaido's Zoro and Oden fought are wildly different in strength: Prime Flaming Drum Dragon Blazing Bagua, Dragon Form Kaido > Prime Drunk Hybrid Kaido > Prime Hybrid Kaido > Prime Base Drunk Kaido > Prime Base Kaido > Prime Dragon Form Kaido and then you have Young Base Kaido > Young Dragon Form Kaido.
Oden could scar a Young Dragon Form Kaido but gets one shot into unconsciousness with a no name attack from a non drunk young base Kaido when he gets caught off guard. While you have Zoro who takes multiple Thunder Baguas from a Prime Hybrid Kaido not going unconscious and is able to scar a Prime Hybrid Kaido. When you look at it the contrast in power is immense as Oden just can't compete with Zoro's feats as he quite literally just scale directly above everything Oden has done.
6) Akainu was bleeding, what do you mean no lasting impact! Akainu tried to kill Whitebeard but he couldn't finish the old man and got knocked down that chasm. Whitebeard kept going, took more damage from others and then from Blackbeard's crew and only after did he die. Akainu was not the reason he died.
Are you saying that if right after Akainu blew off half of Whitebeards face the war stopped Whitebeard wouldn't die from that wound (not to mention the hole in his chest which Akainu vapourized). As for the "no lasting impact" yeah it didn't do much of anything, if anything It feels like it just fueled his rage for pirates even more as we see Akainu walk through the Whitebeard Pirates along with Croc, Jimbei, Ivankov, Inazuma, etc as if they are nothing.
As for "Akainu is bleeding" though I don't want to mix threads and such I feel like I have to check you on your consistency. As in another thread if I remember correctly the Kaido vs the Four Admirals one you talk about (paraphrased of course) how 'even though Kaido took some damage/bleed from the Akazaya and people like Kid they didn't deal any actual damage." While I do get the sentiment you have I feel especially now that you don't give the same type respect to the Admirals as you do the Yonko. Lastly the bleeding from Whitebeard gave zero noticeable drawbacks (he wasn't affected during the war) or scars to Akainu so yeah the hits Akainu took didn't do much.
7) lol Akainu was shocked and scared at the sight of Shanks just a few feet from him. Kizaru put his hands up when Ben Beckman pointed his gun at him.
Akainu was surprised yes... because Shanks a Yonko of the sea just appeared at the war and is protecting Coby a literal fodder who was in his way. Everyone was surprised that Shanks who had just yesterday had a scuffle with Kaido somehow got to marineford in time not that he was this insurmountable foe. Not to mention it's not like Shanks presence was what ended the war as both Aokiji and Kizaru attacked Luffy even after Shanks wanted to stop the war. As for Ben Beckman I already said this but Ben Beckman did literally nothing, all he did was threaten Kizaru with empty words, of which Kizaru played along with for a bit as he always does with people as he is always like "Oh my, so scary." And when Kizaru did what Ben Beckman warned him not to what did he do... he did nothing he just looked off into a distance as Kizaru just bombarded the sea with thousands of lasers attempting to kill Luffy
8) None of the admirals wanted to fight Shanks and his crew and instead focused on something else you know like trying to stop Luffy. It was after seeing this that Shanks declared if either side wanted to continue fighting, he would fight them that's when Sengoku ended the war. If he let it continued; Shanks crew would've mopped the place up along with the Whitebeard commanders.
Nowhere does it say or imply the Admirals didn't want to fight the Red Hair Pirates the best you can get is that Sengoku didn't want to fight them. But that would been less of a power thing and more of a respect thing and that he didn't want marineford to suffer more damage. The only reason the war ended was because Sengoku held respect for his opponent. If Sengoku was replaced by Akainu or Kong in that moment the war would've continued.
Do tell if I didn't address something but as a final note Shanks would never be able to defeat all the Navy in marineford. There are just to many powerhouses which Shanks and crew can't deal with and we're not even taking into account the warlords. you have people like Akainu, kizaru, Aokiji, Sengoku, Garp, Tsuru.
1) sorry but that is rubbish, Akainu scaling above Prime Garp... what?!
Akainu made the Navy the strongest it's ever been (since It's a Shonen aswell so it makes sense for Akainu to be stronger), Akainu can scale at least to if not above Sengoku due to also being a Fleet admiral (Garp aswell by default as they are equals) and still staying on top of it when they are in the Great Age of Piracy, Akainu having the one of the highest offensive devil fruit powers (perhaps awakened aswell due to Punk Hazerd), narratively as an EoS opponent he should be stronger than the villains before, narratively being stronger than past navy marines since there's the theme of the new generation taking over and surpassing what came before, Akainu said to find the one piece within a year of serialization as the protagonist that means he would have to combat all the yonko and get the One piece in roughly 40ish chapters. In conclusion the reason you can put Akainu above past marines is by using in-manga statements, narrative structure, common themes/tropes, and statements from Oda and such.
2) And not all admirals are equal, it is heavily implied that Akainu and Kuzan outrank the others. Akainu would likely mid-diff Greenbull.
I agree to an extent as certain admirals are shown in a better light than others, Akainu for example. But honestly I think they are all relative to each other and if they were to fight matchups would matter. You say that "Akainu would likely mid-diff Greenbull" while I agree with the sentiment of Akainu defeating Greenbull easier than expected I disagree to which the difficulty you say it would be. I think that even with the supposed Devil Fruit counter of Magma > Forest I do not think even with that counter it would be as easy as one would think. I think this is evident in the infamous Akainu/Aokiji dual as in that fight it was Magma vs Ice of many would think that Magma holds superiority over Ice as even Ace's Inferior Fire was able to combat it even if it was a short clash and Akainu was able to vaporize an Iceberg made of Aokiji's Ice. I think while the Admirals do have powerful devil Fruits I think that their Haki is also up to par as without it Akainu vs Aokiji wouldn't have lasted as long as it did due to the supposed superiority Magma holds over Aokiji's Ice.
3) So let's see, we have Gol D. Roger, who was the equal of Prime WB and fought him for fun and casually swatted away someone as strong as Oden, Roger who scales well above Shanks (who made Greenbull tremble with a haki flex), versus the two weakest admirals. Roger low diffs. Replace these two with Akainu and Kuzan to make it remotely interesting. The poll really speaks for itself.
Oden is weaker than Rooftop Zoro... How does Roger scale above Shanks if anything Shanks scales to Roger and beyond as Shanks has insane Conqueror's, "a burning sword for villains,"Observation Killing so tell me why you think that I wanna hear your reasoning... Akainu would already be a conversation adding Aokiji makes it not one... The poll speaks for nothing it's a popularity contest we both know it.
Thanks for the response! and sorry for my late response I was too focused on Kajin's so I didn't get to you sooner.
Roger solos the fodders
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