Show him using things like Quen in a scene, or canon. Also show him using Aard on anything as strong as Kraven (again you'll need to show him doing it in canon, or in a scene). You'll find Geralt doesn't actually abuse magic in either.
Also keep in mind that just because this is a random encounter geralt probably still has some potion that could be put to good use
He'll "probably" have a potion? Excellent argument. Mind showing me a scene, or an excerpt of him using a potion (that would be useful here) mid battle?
@serpinethegreen: Look up "The Witcher 3 Epic Cinematic Launch Trailer". Its the one with the gingers face. Notice how he has a potion. In addition, I have potions at any given time in the game.
P.S I'm not making an argument. I'm O.P which means I'm trying to create conversation. No need to be aggressive in your text.
@serpinethegreen: I'm not familiar with Kraven, so I apologize if I am lowballing here. I will just defend Geralt.
Show him using things like Quen in a scene, or canon.
He'll "probably" have a potion? Excellent argument. Mind showing me a scene, or an excerpt of him using a potion (that would be useful here) mid battle?
Whilst Geralt does sometimes have potions with him, I doubt he will get the chance to drink it mid-combat.
@serpinethegreen: That scene is directly from the very first short story written about Geralt.
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Also in the ending.
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He shielded himself from Yennefers magic beams during their first meeting, from the damage taken by the sound wave of a Bruxa and the stones tossed at him in Blaviken.
@serpinethegreen: Look up "The Witcher 3 Epic Cinematic Launch Trailer". Its the one with the gingers face. Notice how he has a potion. In addition, I have potions at any given time in the game.
I said a "useful" potion. Him using a potion that grants him nightvision isn't useful. Also you having potions on the game doesn't make it canon to Geralt (game, or real canon). It's like me saying "I have food that can heal me in skyrim, therefore the Dovahkiin always has food on him (which can heal him)". Its nonsensical.
P.S I'm not making an argument. I'm O.P which means I'm trying to create conversation. No need to be aggressive in your text.
You really need to learn the difference between aggressive, and sarcastic.
@serpinethegreen: That scene is directly from the very first short story written about Geralt.
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Also in the ending.
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He shielded himself from Yennefers magic beams during their first meeting, from the damage taken by the sound wave of a Bruxa and the stones tossed at him in Blaviken.
I can't see either of the pictures/gifs/videos. However it sounds like the first scene is from Witcher 1 with the Striga fight. I know for a fact he only uses Aard which fails to fully push back the Striga (who is much weaker than Kraven). The second I'm less sure about, however it sounds like he's using the Heliotrope sign, which is quite frankly useless against Kraven.
@serpinethegreen: I'm not familiar with Kraven, so I apologize if I am lowballing here. I will just defend Geralt.
Show him using things like Quen in a scene, or canon.
Is that Quen? Pretty sure it's the Heliotrope sign. Regardless which, it's pretty much useless since A) He needs to reach down to do so (Leaving himself very open), and B) That cart doesn't weigh, nor is it moving with the force of a ton+.
He'll "probably" have a potion? Excellent argument. Mind showing me a scene, or an excerpt of him using a potion (that would be useful here) mid battle?
Whilst Geralt does sometimes have potions with him, I doubt he will get the chance to drink it mid-combat.
I'm not arguing that he doesn't have potions. I'm arguing he A) Doesn't use potions in combat, and B) Possibly doesn't have any useful potions (for this encounter) in either game (or real) canon.
Him using a potion that grants him nightvision isn't useful.
It was actually a Black Blood potion, which makes his blood poisonous. He did prep for the fight though. It won't really make a difference here though.
I can't see either of the pictures/gifs/videos. However it sounds like the first scene is from Witcher 1 with the Striga fight. I know for a fact he only uses Aard which fails to fully push back the Striga (who is much weaker than Kraven).
Aard actually pushes the Striga back and downs it, but it manages to push back against the force when moving back towards Geralt.
The second I'm less sure about, however it sounds like he's using the Heliotrope sign, which is quite frankly useless against Kraven.
It was Aard again. If you're talking about the protection from Yennefer's spell then it is Heliotrope, but I assume you mean the second video.
Is that Quen? Pretty sure it's the Heliotrope sign.
Definitely Quen. Geralt doesn't use Heliotrope in the games. Heliotrope protects Geralt from some damage, whilst Quen creates a barrier around him.
Regardless which, it's pretty much useless since A) He needs to reach down to do so (Leaving himself very open),
What kinds of attacks does Kraven use? Geralt wouldn't use Quen to block melee weapons, he would either parry, pirouette or use Heliotrope.
That cart doesn't weigh, nor is it moving with the force of a ton+.
In the second GIF, Quen protects Geralt and another witcher from two fireballs casted by Triss Merigold. One alone was capable of taking out every Wild Hunt warrior in the vicinity instantly. He won't use it to defend against melee attacks though, if that's what Kraven uses.
I'm not arguing that he doesn't have potions. I'm arguing he A) Doesn't use potions in combat, and B) Possibly doesn't have any useful potions (for this encounter) in either game (or real) canon.
No. Geralt never uses potions mid-combat. He wouldn't be able to.
It was actually a Black Blood potion, which makes his blood poisonous. He did prep for the fight though. It won't really make a difference here though.
My mistake, but you get my point (since its a very specific potion).
Fair enough (haven't played the game in a while). However the fact the Striga could push against it proves it won't be very effective against Kraven (who is provably stronger)
Aard actually pushes the Striga back and downs it, but it manages to push back against the force when moving back towards Geralt.
It was Aard again. If you're talking about the protection from Yennefer's spell then it is Heliotrope, but I assume you mean the second video.
I couldn't watch the video (either of them TBH) I assumed the description was connected. Regardless the Heliotrope sign isn't going to help here, and the Aard sign has been beaten by weaker characters.
Definitely Quen. Geralt doesn't use Heliotrope in the games. Heliotrope protects Geralt from some damage, whilst Quen creates a barrier around him.
Fair enough.
What kinds of attacks does Kraven use? Geralt wouldn't use Quen to block melee weapons, he would either parry, pirouette or use Heliotrope.
Depends on his gear. He's used H2H, melee weapons, poison darts, guns. Pretty much the spectrum (I'll go into more detail at the end).
In the second GIF, Quen protects Geralt and another witcher from two fireballs casted by Triss Merigold. One alone was capable of taking out every Wild Hunt warrior in the vicinity instantly. He won't use it to defend against melee attacks though, if that's what Kraven uses.
Kraven doesn't use anything like that. His ranged attacks would be things like bullets, darts, arrows etc.
No. Geralt never uses potions mid-combat. He wouldn't be able to.
Atleast we are agreed on this.
Kraven info
Kraven is a master huntsman, who has fought (and killed) pretty much every animal you can think of (unarmed combat no less) here's an assortment of scans showing his stats, and some of his equipment
Durability:
Tanks an optic blast from Cyclops.
Survives mega beating from Hulk
Fighting skills (This encompasses his strength/Agility/speed):
More than capable of going toe to toe with Spiderman (Spiderman easily dodges bullets, and can lift over 40 tons)
Defeats Vermin in a one on one fight, a guy Spiderman could never beat alone (He's actually referring to how Peter needed caps help against him)
Equipment:
Has a blow dart that knocks out Black Widow in seconds. Worth noting that he also defeats DD in this page.
Show him using things like Quen in a scene, or canon. Also show him using Aard on anything as strong as Kraven (again you'll need to show him doing it in canon, or in a scene). You'll find Geralt doesn't actually abuse magic in either.
Also keep in mind that just because this is a random encounter geralt probably still has some potion that could be put to good use
He'll "probably" have a potion? Excellent argument. Mind showing me a scene, or an excerpt of him using a potion (that would be useful here) mid battle?
Geralt uses a variation of Quen to block giant fireballs that kill and one shot all the men around them.
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Geralt also has superhuman strength, he was able to block and hold a huge giant mace coming down at him from Imlerith, who is superhuman himself. Imlerith snapped a witcher's neck with pure grip strength alone. He also uses a variation of Igni to instantly scorch and bring Imlerith's armor up to temperatures that give him 3rd to 4th degree burns. So his use of Igni is intensely hot, not just a normal flame.
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Here his use of Aard sends a Striga flying, the whole battle showcases what Geralt can do when he fights the Striga to incapacitate.
Geralt uses a variation of Quen to block giant fireballs that kill and one shot all the men around them.
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Not useful in a melee fight (or against things like bullets, or darts)
Geralt also has superhuman strength, he was able to block and hold a huge giant mace coming down at him from Imlerith, who is superhuman himself. Imlerith snapped a witcher's neck with pure grip strength alone. He also uses a variation of Igni to instantly scorch and bring Imlerith's armor up to temperatures that give him 3rd to 4th degree burns. So his use of Igni is intensely hot, not just a normal flame.
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I don't think Geralts even a 1 tonner, and Kraven has tanked an optic blast from Cyclops. I don't think Igni would be a problem.
Here his use of Aard sends a Striga flying, the whole battle showcases what Geralt can do when he fights the Striga to incapacitate.
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As for the fight itself, I don't know.
Aard may have knocked the Striga flying when it wasn't fighting against it, but when it was, Aard couldn't stop the Striga moving towards Geralt. The question is; What feats does the Striga have to put it at Kraven level? And if it isn't on Kraven level, why would Aard be a problem for the stronger (smarter) Kraven?
Just fyi for the people in this thread, the reason we never see Geralt using a potion in mid-battle is because Witchers can't, they have to be in a meditative state in order to drink them. It's in the novels, the main canon for Witchers.
I don't get how quen wouldn't be useful, he can set it around his body also.
I would argue that Aard has a initial kick and everything afterwards is just a push. It's evident in both videos where he fights the assassin and when he fights the striga. The initial kick is what senda foes flying. The striga is larger than Kraven is, so if Kraven is sent in midair, he has no ability to fly and push back. So I believe Aard will work.
Cyclops optic blasts from my knowledge are concussive. They don't have heat to them. That's what his bio says.
I don't think Geralt is a one tonner either, but his strengths are definitely with his magic and the element of surprise. If Kraven underestimates Geralt, he can be severely burned with Igni.
Fair enough (haven't played the game in a while). However the fact the Striga could push against it proves it won't be very effective against Kraven (who is provably stronger)
Aard knocks people back a great distance and then holds them back. Against human opponents he rarely holds them back after the initial force, so Kraven would be affected by the knockback.
Depends on his gear. He's used H2H, melee weapons, poison darts, guns. Pretty much the spectrum
Geralt has a counter for all of those except for guns. Would it be in-character for Kraven to open with a gun attack?
who has fought (and killed) pretty much every animal you can think of (unarmed combat no less)
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Here Geralt beats a bear in unarmed combat, and then does the same thing against a rock troll. Tell me if te links aren't working for you and I'll give you the web address.
Durability:
Does Kraven have any resistance feats against bladed, piercing or fire damage? That's what he will have to defend against when fighting Geralt.
More than capable of going toe to toe with Spiderman (Spiderman easily dodges bullets, and can lift over 40 tons)
Whilst this is incredibly impressive, Spiderman holds back a lot whilst in character. Captain America, who is leagues beneath Spiderman physically has beaten him before and given him some very tough fights. Since when is Spiderman a 40 tonner?
Has a blow dart that knocks out Black Widow in seconds. Worth noting that he also defeats DD in this page.
Witchers have enhanced resistance to poisons and toxins. That's why they're not killed when they drink potions.
Has nets strong enough to hold Spiderman
Then they are strong enough to hold Geralt. He does have a sword capable of cutting the net though, and he can dodge.
Has hallucinogenic darts in his left gauntlet
Enhanced toxin resistance. He can also dodge it or deflect it with his sword.
I don't think Geralts even a 1 tonner
Wrong.
Geralt defends against an attack from Imlerith's mace coming down from above, and his sword doesn't move down an inch. This would take superhuman, or at least near superhuman strength against an ordinary human who is wielding a mace. Imlerith casually walks around with huge, bulky plate armour, a large shield and a heavy mace. Not only this, but Imlerith was capable of casually lifting someone up with one hand and effortlessly snapping his neck with a twist of his wrist. This makes Imlerith a multi-tonner, and Geralt's sword was unmoved from a downwards swing from him with a heavier weapon. He even manages to overpower him. That makes Geralt a multi-tonner.
and Kraven has tanked an optic blast from Cyclops. I don't think Igni would be a problem.
Energy and fire damage are not the same. Igni will carry on burning even after the initial blast and will at least take Kraven off his game. The person above me showed how hot Igni burns.
Aard may have knocked the Striga flying when it wasn't fighting against it, but when it was, Aard couldn't stop the Striga moving towards Geralt.
Regardless of whether you're fighting or not, Aard will knock you back. If a witcher is trying to restrain you though, you can fight back against it.
Aard knocks a witcher back about 10 metres whilst they are fighting.
The Striga is capable of breaking a silver chain. Bear in mind that its hands aren't on it to push, it has to move its arms outward with enough force to successfully snap the chain, which it does. I don't know how strong Kraven is though.
if it isn't on Kraven level, why would Aard be a problem for the stronger (smarter) Kraven?
Because the initial blast would knock him down, even if he wouldn't be able to restrain him.
Aard knocks people back a great distance and then holds them back. Against human opponents he rarely holds them back after the initial force, so Kraven would be affected by the knockback.
Severly missing the point here. Kraven is a definite multi tonner (based on his fights with Spiderman, and Vermin) normal humans aren't close to being in his league. Your argument that "They are Human, and Kraven is human, therefore aard should work the same" is incredibly flawed.
Geralt has a counter for all of those except for guns.
No he doesnt. If Kraven swings at him with a sword, Geralt would shatter due to the obvious strength difference.
Would it be in-character for Kraven to open with a gun attack?
Depends on his mood. If he doesn't think Geralt is worthy (and why would he within context?). He may just shoot him, then move along.
Here Geralt beats a bear in unarmed combat, and then does the same thing against a rock troll. Tell me if te links aren't working for you and I'll give you the web address.
I couldn't see either. Are they both canon? And how exactly does he do so?
Does Kraven have any resistance feats against bladed, piercing or fire damage? That's what he will have to defend against when fighting Geralt.
He doesn't really get hit TBH.
Whilst this is incredibly impressive, Spiderman holds back a lot whilst in character. Captain America, who is leagues beneath Spiderman physically has beaten him before and given him some very tough fights.
Kraven has fought him "bloodlusted" not to mention his fights with Kaine (Peters phycho clone).
Since when is Spiderman a 40 tonner?
For over a decade. Here he is supporting part of the daily bugle:
This feat is at least 100 tons.
Witchers have enhanced resistance to poisons and toxins. That's why they're not killed when they drink potions.
IIRC Geralt has passed out after (maybe) 20 pints. If 20 pints can do that, what's the likelihood he'd still be standing after an animal trank? At the very least he'd lose a some of his cognitive capabilities.
Then they are strong enough to hold Geralt. He does have a sword capable of cutting the net though, and he can dodge.
Kraven's nets are very strong (he even has adamantium nets), also if he can catch Spiderman (a guy who moves at mach+ speeds, with a spider sense). Whats the liklihood he wouldn't catch Geralt?
Enhanced toxin resistance.
Same as before.
He can also dodge it or deflect it with his sword.
These darts are used at very close range.
Wrong.
Geralt defends against an attack from Imlerith's mace coming down from above, and his sword doesn't move down an inch. This would take superhuman, or at least nearsuperhuman strength against an ordinary human who is wielding a mace.
Perhaps it would, but superhuman doesn't automatically make him a 1 tonner.
Imlerith casually walks around with huge, bulky plate armour, a large shield and a heavy mace. Not only this, but Imlerith was capable of casually lifting someone up with one hand and effortlessly snapping his neck with a twist of his wrist. This makes Imlerith a multi-tonner,
No, it doesn't. Full steal armour is (about) 100 lbs. If Imlerith was wearing three times as much (unlikely), that would still only be 300 lbs, and you have to bear in mind that he isn't lifting it over head, he's wearing it. This means all the weight is dispersed around his body. Him killing Vesemir is pretty impressive, but even this isn't close to the multi-tonn range. Vesemir likely weighs 150-250 lbs, therefore Imeleth should be able to (at least) lift around 300-500 lbs. Him breaking Vesemir's kneck would take (about) 1000 lbs of force, but since they're totally different muscles, you wouldn't add the 1000, and the 150-250. It's also worth noting that generating 1000 lbs of force is entirely different to lifting 1000 lbs. Based on the facts, you'd be lucky calling him a 1 tonner.
and Geralt's sword was unmoved from a downwards swing from him with a heavier weapon. He even manages to overpower him. That makes Geralt a multi-tonner.
No, it doesn't. Geralt is clearly weaker than Imlerith, who himself isn't a multi tonner.
Energy and fire damage are not the same.
True, but since Cyclops's beams melt things, it is clearly far hotter than Igni.
Igni will carry on burning even after the initial blast and will at least take Kraven off his game. The person above me showed how hot Igni burns..
Bearly. If you actually watch the fight, Geralt is using Igni on Imlerith for a couple of seconds straight (while Imlerith stands there, and let's him). The fire goes out a second or two later.
Regardless of whether you're fighting or not, Aard will knock you back. If a witcher is trying to restrain you though, you can fight back against it.
Aard knocks a witcher back about 10 metres whilst they are fighting.
AARD knocking someone weaker than Geralt (who in turn is much weaker than Kraven) doesn't really say much.
The Striga is capable of breaking a silver chain. Bear in mind that its hands aren't on it to push, it has to move its arms outward with enough force to successfully snap the chain, which it does.
That's not very impressive, especially if you look at how thin the chain is.
I don't know how strong Kraven is though.
He's overpowered Spiderman on occasion, and beat Vermin unarmed. He must be (at least) a 5 tonner.
Because the initial blast would knock him down, even if he wouldn't be able to restrain him.
Your basing this on him knocking down a Witcher (not a 1 tonner), and the Striga (not a 1 tonner), both of whom are massively weaker than Kraven. You are turning AARD into a NLF that even Superman couldn't resist.
I don't get how quen wouldn't be useful, he can set it around his body also.
He has no canon (or game canon) feats of him doing so. His only feats seem to have him put it up for a second, while stationary.
I would argue that Aard has a initial kick everything afterwards is just a push. It's evident in both videos where he fights the assassin and when he fights the striga. The initial kick is what senda foes flying. The striga is larger than Kraven is, so if Kraven is sent in midair, he has no ability to fly and push back. So I believe Aard will work.
It doesn't really matter how big the Striga is (although if you look closely, it's actually very short), Kraven is much stronger. I'd also add Kraven is far faster than the Striga (or Geralt). There's a very good chance it wouldn't hit.
Cyclops optic blasts from my knowledge are concussive. They don't have heat to them. That's what his bio says.
Cyclops used them to melt Sinister, I'd assume that means they have heat like qualities.
I don't think Geralt is a one tonner either, but his strengths are definitely with his magic and the element of surprise. If Kraven underestimates Geralt, he can be severely burned with Igni
Kraven lives in a world where a little boy's can manipulate all of space and time. He's far less likely to underestimate Geralt, than Geralt him.
Severly missing the point here. Kraven is a definite multi tonner (based on his fights with Spiderman, and Vermin) normal humans aren't close to being in his league. Your argument that "They are Human, and Kraven is human, therefore aard should work the same" is incredibly flawed.
Being strong doesn't make Aard less effective. Witchers are multi-tonners and yet Geralt's Aard knocked one back about 10 metres. He has even been knocked down by it himself.
No he doesnt. If Kraven swings at him with a sword, Geralt would shatter due to the obvious strength difference.
Wrong.
Depends on his mood. If he doesn't think Geralt is worthy (and why would he within context?). He may just shoot him, then move along.
Admittedly Geralt has no counter to that.
I couldn't see either. Are they both canon? And how exactly does he do so?
For both of them he is put into an arena with no weapons and has to fight them shirtless. They are canon, as it is an objective in a quest.
He doesn't really get hit TBH.
Neither does Geralt. He has been a few times though, and witchers are impervious to pain. Their hearts also beat four times slower than a regular human's, so it takes longer for them to bleed out.
Kraven has fought him "bloodlusted" not to mention his fights with Kaine (Peters phycho clone).
That is very impressive. Where would you put him at skill wise?
For over a decade. Here he is supporting part of the daily bugle: This feat is at least 100 tons.
Based on what? Also, Spiderman being an 100 tonner is undeniably inconsistent.
IIRC Geralt has passed out after (maybe) 20 pints. If 20 pints can do that, what's the likelihood he'd still be standing after an animal trank? At the very least he'd lose a some of his cognitive capabilities.
When did that happen? Anyway, Geralt has killed a Vampire whilst drunk before. I doubt toxins would just immediately incap him, but they may reduce his effectiveness.
Kraven's nets are very strong (he even has adamantium nets), also if he can catch Spiderman (a guy who moves at mach+ speeds, with a spider sense). Whats the liklihood he wouldn't catch Geralt?
Can it consistently trap Spiderman? Was it a first encounter where he didn't realize how strong the net was? Is it ever stated to actually be faster than a regular net? Anyway, Geralt fights up close and would attack Kraven if he let his guard down to throw a net.
These darts are used at very close range.
Perhaps it would, but superhuman doesn't automatically make him a 1 tonner.
I said it would take superhuman strength to do that aginst an ordinary human. Geralt did it to a multi-tonner.
No, it doesn't. Full steal armour is (about) 100 lbs. If Imlerith was wearing three times as much (unlikely), that would still only be 300 lbs, and you have to bear in mind that he isn't lifting it over head, he's wearing it. This means all the weight is dispersed around his body. Him killing Vesemir is pretty impressive, but even this isn't close to the multi-tonn range. Vesemir likely weighs 150-250 lbs, therefore Imeleth should be able to (at least) lift around 300-500 lbs. Him breaking Vesemir's kneck would take (about) 1000 lbs of force, but since they're totally different muscles, you wouldn't add the 1000, and the 150-250. It's also worth noting that generating 1000 lbs of force is entirely different to lifting 1000 lbs. Based on the facts, you'd be lucky calling him a 1 tonner.
I'm not saying that the armour automatically makes him a multi-tonner. Snapping any human's neck either when it's not at an angle or the other person is aware of you is almost impossible. Imlerith did it against an opponent who was both of these things and did it casually with a twist of his wrist whilst already having him lifted up with one hand. He didn't use any skill to do it, so we know that it was pure strength. The most important thing here is that he did it effortlessly.
No, it doesn't. Geralt is clearly weaker than Imlerith, who himself isn't a multi tonner.
Imlerith is undeniably a multi-tonner, (albeit a low one,) and Geralt overpowered him. How is he clearly weaker?
True, but since Cyclops's beams melt things, it is clearly far hotter than Igni.
Yes, but in concentrated areas. Igni gives severe burns, does it in more than one area and carries on burning even after the initial blast.
Bearly. If you actually watch the fight, Geralt is using Igni on Imlerith for a couple of seconds straight (while Imlerith stands there, and let's him). The fire goes out a second or two later.
The fire actually goes out about seven seconds later. Anyway, a couple of seconds is more than enough time for Geralt to kill a distracted Kraven, especially since he has no piercing or bladed durability feats.
AARD knocking someone weaker than Geralt (who in turn is much weaker than Kraven) doesn't really say much.
You haven't shown any strength feats for Kraven, and I don't see why someone being stronger than him would matter. It doesn't translate his physical strength into a spell.
That's not very impressive, especially if you look at how thin the chain is.
Breaking a chain off of you whilst you are bound by it and you have your hands restrained is very impressive.
He's overpowered Spiderman on occasion, and beat Vermin unarmed. He must be (at least) a 5 tonner.
Oh. He may have a slight strength advantage over Geralt then. Geralt doesn't rely on his strength though, he dodges and pirouettes.
Your basing this on him knocking down a Witcher (not a 1 tonner), and the Striga (not a 1 tonner), both of whom are massively weaker than Kraven. You are turning AARD into a NLF that even Superman couldn't resist.
Witchers are multi-tonners. Kraven's strength won't stop him from being knocked down. I don't see why you think otherwise.
He has no canon (or game canon) feats of him doing so. His only feats seem to have him put it up for a second, while stationary.
I showed you two Quen feats previously.
It doesn't really matter how big the Striga is (although if you look closely, it's actually very short), Kraven is much stronger. I'd also add Kraven is far faster than the Striga (or Geralt). There's a very good chance it wouldn't hit.
Speed feats for Kraven?
Kraven lives in a world where a little boy's can manipulate all of space and time. He's far less likely to underestimate Geralt, than Geralt him.
Witchers are multi-tonners and yet Geralt's Aard knocked one back about 10 metres. He has even been knocked down by it himself.
Witchers are not multi-tonners. You are using one scene of a possible one tonner being briefly overpowered by Geralt, and applying it to all Witchers.
Wrong.
He isn't close to Kraven strength. His best feat could be replicated by a 1 tonner.
For both of them he is put into an arena with no weapons and has to fight them shirtless. They are canon, as it is an objective in a quest.
I'm dubious of calling this a feat.
Neither does Geralt. He has been a few times though, and witchers are impervious to pain. Their hearts also beat four times slower than a regular human's, so it takes longer for them to bleed out.
The difference being Kraven lives in a world of guns, and Geralt was killed by an untrained pitchfork wielding civilian.
That is very impressive. Where would you put him at skill wise?
Very high. He's beaten Spiderman, Black Panther, and Dare Devil.
Based on what?
It's pretty well accepted by most Spiderman fans. His feats clearly depict this, and it's well established that he can lift things in excess of 20 ton without struggling.
Also, Spiderman being an 100 tonner is undeniably inconsistent.
Ironically, he has more feats in the 100+ ton level, than Geralt does in the 1+ ton level. Here's another:
When did that happen?
Shani's party is one example. If you drink too much, you fall unconscious. Infact it's made pretty clear in the Witcher game that Geralt can't drink more than 20 pints.
Anyway, Geralt has killed a Vampire whilst drunk before. I doubt toxins would just immediately incap him, but they may reduce his effectiveness.
Bear in mind he's fighting a guy takes on much higher caliber enemies.
Can it consistently trap Spiderman? Was it a first encounter where he didn't realize how strong the net was? Is it ever stated to actually be faster than a regular net?
I don't see the relevance. I also don't understand the concept of a "fast net".
Anyway, Geralt fights up close and would attack Kraven if he let his guard down to throw a net.
Why would he need to put his guard down? Also if Geralt was up close, he'd more likely attack with a melee weapon (plus his usual surprise darts/bombs).
I said it would take superhuman strength to do that aginst an ordinary human.
I very much disagree with that statement.
Geralt did it to a multi-tonner.
Again you are giving the term multi-tonner away far too easily. Imlerith has one feat that is close to a 1 tonner feat, it's still a great feat (considering the type of world the Witcher series is set), but it's not close to a multi-tonner feat.
I'm not saying that the armour automatically makes him a multi-tonner. Snapping any human's neck either when it's not at an angle or the other person is aware of you is almost impossible. Imlerith did it against an opponent who was both of these things and did it casually with a twist of his wrist whilst already having him lifted up with one hand. He didn't use any skill to do it, so we know that it was pure strength. The most important thing here is that he did it effortlessly.
Him holding Vesemir has no bearing on him snapping Vesemir's kneck, and although you may claim it was effortless. That does not automatically mean he could do a lot more. It may "logically" make sense, but it's souly assumption.
Imlerith is undeniably a multi-tonner, (albeit a low one,)
It is deniable. Imlerith hasn't done anything a 1 tonner could not. I'll also add that to be a 1 tonner (at least by comic book standards), you must be able to lift/press 1 ton. Imlerith may be able to apply a temporary amount of force at (around) 1 ton, but he has no lifting feats close to it.
and Geralt overpowered him. How is he clearly weaker?
Because he was being ragdolled through the whole fight, and won via skill.
Yes, but in concentrated areas. Igni gives severe burns, does it in more than one area and carries on burning even after the initial blast.
That still doesn't change the fact that Kraven has tanked something far more potent. Even if this were not the case, Igni is by no means a deciding factor.
The fire actually goes out about seven seconds later. Anyway, a couple of seconds is more than enough time for Geralt to kill a distracted Kraven, especially since he has no piercing or bladed durability feats.
This is pure fantasy. Not only are you assuming that Geralt hits Kraven with Igni (which is bogus), you are ignoring his skill/personality in the hopes it gives Geralt the win. I may add that Kraven not only has the stats advantage, but his skill is measurably higher than Geralts.
You haven't shown any strength feats for Kraven, and I don't see why someone being stronger than him would matter.
I've shown him overwhelming Spiderman, and Vermin. These are both massively superior strength feats to those shown by the Striga, or the Witchers.
It doesn't translate his physical strength into a spell.
I didn't say it did, but since it hasn't knocked down/back anyone near Kraven's strength, we shouldn't rush to assume it could.
Breaking a chain off of you whilst you are bound by it and you have your hands restrained is very impressive.
By real world standards, maybe. However by marvel standards, or even Spiderman standards. No.
Oh. He may have a slight strength advantage over Geralt then.
Only because I'm being stingy with Kraven, and you are being generous with Geralt.
Geralt doesn't rely on his strength though, he dodges and pirouettes.
Neither does Kraven, hence him beating the faster, stronger. Spiderman.
Witchers are multi-tonners.
The facts say otherwise.
Kraven's strength won't stop him from being knocked down. I don't see why you think otherwise.
Because you haven't shown it knocking anyone on his level down. If AARD was so great, why did Geralt use it on Imlerith's mace, and not Imlerith?
I showed you two Quen feats previously.
Re-read. I'm stating that he can't have it envelope him (like he does in the game).
Speed feats for Kraven?
Again. He consistently tags Spiderman. The same Spiderman who dodges bullets, and has a (minor) from of precognition.
@serpinethegreen: I think kraven can take majority, but you have some weird arguments. You started by saying geralt doesn't use signs in combat, which is true for book geralt but not videogame geralt, to just downplaying his feats. I was only posting to point out that he does use signs and magic in his latest iteration and I think his signs are more of a threat than you think they are.
I don't get to post here as often as I used to, for me to make a proper assessment I would have to research Kraven postings from K4 again and revisit his respect threads. So I don't really have a strong opinion of the fight itself.
@paragonnate: no, it's in the Witcher 3 short movie. It's where he got the bite mark scar on his upper left shoulder that you see in cutscenes or whenever you take his equipment off. He poisoned his blood just in case the bruxa bit him, which she did and it killed her.
Videogame geralt and book geralt are quite different. It should be treated like the star wars expanded universe I guess.
@serpinethegreen: I think kraven can take majority,
Only a majority? This is genuinely one of the biggest Geralt stomps I've seen on comicvine.
but you have some weird arguments. You started by saying geralt doesn't use signs in combat,
Lie. I said he doesn't abuse signs in combat, which he doesnt. In all the cinematics shown, Geralt never uses more than one type of sign in battle. He also doesn't use the same sign more than once (maybe twice).
which is true for book geralt but not videogame geralt, to just downplaying his feats.
No. You remembered what I wrote wrong.
I was only posting to point out that he does use signs and magic in his latest iteration
You've shown him use signs, yes. But you haven't shown him abuse them. You haven't shown him use Quen as a moving field, and you havent proved AARD can knock a multi-tonner down.
and I think his signs are more of a threat than you think they are.
Obviously. However you're wrong. Wanna see Kraven aim dodging a much more skilled elemental user?
In this pic he consistently dodges Storms aim (without looking). Some may call this "lightning timing", but they are delusional fanboys. The point of this scan is that Kraven can dodge aim effortlessly. The fact he can do this (and the fact Geralt's signs aren't particularly fast) means he has two chance to dodge. The first is Geralts aim (which he's proven he can do), and the second is that attack itself.
I don't get to post here as often as I used to, for me to make a proper assessment I would have to research Kraven postings from K4 again and revisit his respect threads. So I don't really have a strong opinion of the fight itself
That's not what I'm saying. Superman doesn't even need to have his feet planted on the ground. I don't see how being able to lift a lot stops you from being knocked over, especially when it's a magical force doing the pushing rather than a physical one.
Witchers are not multi-tonners. You are using one scene of a possible one tonner being briefly overpowered by Geralt, and applying it to all Witchers.
Possible multi-tonner? What he did definitely makes him a low level multi-tonner. Does it matter how long he was overpowered for? Witchers all undergo the same mutations, do we can apply it to other witchers.
He isn't close to Kraven strength.
The point I made was that Geralt's sword won't break after being hit with a lot of force. He is also stronger, at least when going from the evidence that has been presented so far.
His best feat could be replicated by a 1 tonner.
Overpowering a multi-tonner could be performed by a one tonner?
I'm dubious of calling this a feat.
Why? I'm dubious of calling any time where Kraven has lifted over half a ton a feat.
The difference being Kraven lives in a world of guns, and Geralt was killed by an untrained pitchfork wielding civilian.
It wasn't a 1v1. Geralt was facing a large mob. I agree that Kraven could end this quickly with a gun though.
Very high. He's beaten Spiderman, Black Panther, and Dare Devil.
I looked up Kraven vs Black Panther, and I saw an instance of BP defeating him.
I only included the last scan. There was more of a fight before this. Captain America has also beaten Spiderman before. He does not do well against opponents who are very skilled and good strategists usually. Can I see a scan of Kraven beating Spiderman please?
It's pretty well accepted by most Spiderman fans. His feats clearly depict this, and it's well established that he can lift things in excess of 20 ton without struggling.
Yes. Spiderman is definitely a 20 tonner.
Ironically, he has more feats in the 100+ ton level, than Geralt does in the 1+ ton level. Here's another:
All of his feats in that range are either outliers or the author did not calculate how strong somebody would have to be to perform the feat. You can't honestly tell me that you think Spiderman is an 100 tonner.
Shani's party is one example. If you drink too much, you fall unconscious. Infact it's made pretty clear in the Witcher game that Geralt can't drink more than 20 pints.
I don't remember that. Could you please link a video? Anyway, 20 pints is still a lot.
Bear in mind he's fighting a guy takes on much higher caliber enemies.
Who can he consistently beat who is above Geralt's level? Keyword there is consistently.
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Here Geralt kills a Higher Vampire without prep. Higher Vampires are arguably the most powerful creatures in the world of The Witcher, save Dragons. (Which Geralt has also killed.)
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Here Geralt beats two other witchers at once. They have similar physicals to him due to the Trial of the Grasses and are incredibly skilled as well, since like all witchers they were trained rigorously from birth.
I don't see the relevance. I also don't understand the concept of a "fast net".
The relevance is that if Spiderman hadn't encountered him before, he would underestimate him and would not expect the net. I was asking whether Kraven's net actually moves fater than a regular net. If not, Quen.
Why would he need to put his guard down? Also if Geralt was up close, he'd more likely attack with a melee weapon (plus his usual surprise darts/bombs).
He can't exactly stay focused on swordplay and defense when he's throwing a net. I don't know about his darts or bombs, so I can't comment on those.
I very much disagree with that statement.
Why? Compare it to when Ivan Drago's fists don't move downwards when Apollo Creed hits them in Rocky 4.
Again you are giving the term multi-tonner away far too easily. Imlerith has one feat that is close to a 1 tonner feat, it's still a great feat (considering the type of world the Witcher series is set), but it's not close to a multi-tonner feat.
Close to a 1 tonner feat? It would take around a one tonner to do that to an opponent who is looking straight at you and who was aware of your presence normally, but Imlerith did it with one hand whilst already lifting the man up and he did it effortlessly.
Him holding Vesemir has no bearing on him snapping Vesemir's kneck, and although you may claim it was effortless. That does not automatically mean he could do a lot more. It may "logically" make sense, but it's souly assumption.
It's a lot harder to snap someone's neck when you are lifting them off the ground with one hand. It is harder to exert the force.
It is deniable. Imlerith hasn't done anything a 1 tonner could not. I'll also add that to be a 1 tonner (at least by comic book standards), you must be able to lift/press 1 ton. Imlerith may be able to apply a temporary amount of force at (around) 1 ton, but he has no lifting feats close to it.
But considering no technique was applied to his neck snap and he did it with only raw strength. We can translate that to lifting strength as there was no technique involved. I may get to more strength feats for Geralt later.
Because he was being ragdolled through the whole fight, and won via skill.
Show when he was being ragdolled. he wasn't even touched until Imlerith grabbed him by the throat. He didn't win via skill, as you can clearly see that he overpowered him.
That still doesn't change the fact that Kraven has tanked something far more potent. Even if this were not the case, Igni is by no means a deciding factor.
I disagree. Geralt won't rely on it, but how well will Kraven be able to fight with 3rd degree burns on his entire head?
This is pure fantasy. Not only are you assuming that Geralt hits Kraven with Igni (which is bogus),
Why?
you are ignoring his skill/personality in the hopes it gives Geralt the win.
I am not ignoring it, I am just not familiar enough with Kraven to jusge how h would fight based on his personality.
I may add that Kraven not only has the stats advantage,
He has a slight strength advantage, sure, but Geralt has better bladed/piercing durability and he is far quicker.
Geralt appears as a blur even whilst running.
Guards can't even see his sword move whilst in combat. Has Kraven ever been described as FTE?
but his skill is measurably higher than Geralts.
Wrong. At least from what has been shown so far.
Has Kraven ever beaten somebody who is around his level physically and exceptionally skilled? It is Geralt's job to kill monsters faster and stronger than he is, so skill feats that will matter here are ones where Kraven is fighting an opponent both great physically and very skilled. Spiderman only comes under one of those.
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Here is Geralt killing another witcher whilst blinded by a flash bomb.
As it stands, Geralt has a clear edge in skill here.
I've shown him overwhelming Spiderman, and Vermin. These are both massively superior strength feats to those shown by the Striga, or the Witchers.
Please show them again. I don't recall. Anyway, if Spiderman is an 100 tonner and Kraven is a 5 tonner by your statement, how would he be able to overwhelm Spiderman?
I didn't say it did, but since it hasn't knocked down/back anyone near Kraven's strength, we shouldn't rush to assume it could.
It knocks down a witcher, and witchers are multi-tonners. Being able to lift a lot doesn't stop you getting knocked down by a magical force.
Here is Geralt clearing a large amount of rubble with Aard. Kraven's lifting strength will not stop him from being pushed over by a magical force.
By real world standards, maybe. However by marvel standards, or even Spiderman standards. No.
Even by comic standards that is impressive. It may not be impressive by Spiderman standards, but by your claims he is an 100 tonner and Kraven is a 5 tonner, so that isn't relevant here.
Only because I'm being stingy with Kraven, and you are being generous with Geralt.
Generous? I am only showing feats. How are you being stingy in any way?
Neither does Kraven, hence him beating the faster, stronger. Spiderman.
What?
The facts say otherwise.
But I've shown facts to support it. I will show another one then.
Another witcher effortlessly tosses Geralt through a brick wall with only one hand, and he carries on moving even after he has broken through the wall. That would be a multi-tonner feat even with two hands being used.
When they clash swords they are shown to be even in strength.
Because you haven't shown it knocking anyone on his level down. If AARD was so great, why did Geralt use it on Imlerith's mace, and not Imlerith?
Imlerith is a lot heavier than Kraven, especially in his armour. It would stagger Imlerith but it wouldn't knock him down. It's weight that matters here, not lifting strength.
Re-read. I'm stating that he can't have it envelope him (like he does in the game).
But it did in both the feats.
Here is another one.
Again. He consistently tags Spiderman. The same Spiderman who dodges bullets, and has a (minor) from of precognition.
Although Spiderman is very quick, he always holds back immensely in-character. He has been tagged by Captain America and Daredevil before.
He underestimated Loredos mother.
Lol. He also killed her.
Only a majority? This is genuinely one of the biggest Geralt stomps I've seen on comicvine.
Geralt has an advantage from what has been shown so far.
Lie. I said he doesn't abuse signs in combat, which he doesnt. In all the cinematics shown, Geralt never uses more than one type of sign in battle. He also doesn't use the same sign more than once (maybe twice).
You are correct about him not abusing signs. However, in the Imlerith fight you can see he uses both Aard and Igni.
You've shown him use signs, yes. But you haven't shown him abuse them. You haven't shown him use Quen as a moving field, and you havent proved AARD can knock a multi-tonner down.
Admittedly Geralt hasn't shown that he can move with Quen, (he would also have no reason to,) and lifting strength doesn't matter against Aard, weight does.
Obviously. However you're wrong. Wanna see Kraven aim dodging a much more skilled elemental user?
Aim dodging. What speed feats does Storm have to suggest she's faster than Geralt? Anyway, Geralt will be using swords and magic, rather than just one.
The point of this scan is that Kraven can dodge aim effortlessly.
Yes, but Geralt is quicker than Storm and will be casting signs at a closer range.
Geralt's signs aren't particularly fast
Aard is.
The first is Geralts aim (which he's proven he can do),
Storm isn't as quick as Geralt and she was casting from further away.
the second is that attack itself.
Aard moves almost instantly.
You also replied to yourself in your post rather than me.
That's not what I'm saying. Superman doesn't even need to have his feet planted on the ground.
Oh my god......I was joking, but you actually think it would work if Superman couldn't fly.....
I don't see how being able to lift a lot stops you from being knocked over, especially when it's a magical force doing the pushing rather than a physical one.
It isn't the "fall over spell", it's a sign that knocks people over due to the force of the spell. You are applying a NLF, and it's ridiculous.
Possible multi-tonner? What he did definitely makes him a low level multi-tonner.
You need to go back to school (or more likely finish it). Nothing he did was above what a 1 tonner could do.
Does it matter how long he was overpowered for?
Of course it does. With enough adrenaline I could lift a car, but I couldn't do it for long. Also it's possible Imlerith wasn't using his full force, and/or unbalanced.
Witchers all undergo the same mutations, do we can apply it to other witchers.
Geralt's body took better, so he got more. Get your facts straight.
The point I made was that Geralt's sword won't break after being hit with a lot of force.
I'm talking about Geralts arms shattering (since he's never dealt with force close to Kraven's)
He is also stronger, at least when going from the evidence that has been presented so far.
I've shown him overpower Vermin (something Spiderman couldn't do without Captain America), and I've shown him overpower Spiderman (a 40 tonner). You have only shown Geralt "overpower" Imlerith who is a 1 tonner (at best).
Overpowering a multi-tonner could be performed by a one tonner?
I'm talking about Imlerith FFS. Read before you damn well post.
Why?
Because he isn't shown actually fighting them.
I'm dubious of calling any time where Kraven has lifted over half a ton a feat.
Look I've held my tongue (or virtual tongue), I've tried to be nice, but you are officially a fanboy.
It wasn't a 1v1. Geralt was facing a large mob.
Kraven's fought mobs of foes (with guns). He came out alive.
I agree that Kraven could end this quickly with a gun though.
And yet a guy who casually tags spiderman (a guy who moves at bullet speeds) would have trouble. Logic isn't your strong point.
I looked up Kraven vs Black Panther, and I saw an instance of BP defeating him.
I only included the last scan. There was more of a fight before this.
You realise Black Panther is one of the most skilled fighters in the marvel universe, and is wearing a suit that absorbs kinetic attacks.
Captain America has also beaten Spiderman before. He does not do well against opponents who are very skilled and good strategists usually.
Didn't he beat the Iron spider? That's the ultimate verse spiderman. Doesn't count.
Can I see a scan of Kraven beating Spiderman please?
I don't have it.
Yes. Spiderman is definitely a 20 tonner.
Lowballing again. Look you can lie to yourself all you want, but to a person who actually knows Spiderman books. You come off as noob.
All of his feats in that range are either outliers or the author did not calculate how strong somebody would have to be to perform the feat.
You don't see the irony? Spiderman has multiple feats of him being a "100 tonner", but they are all "outlier", or "PIS". However Geralt has one feat where he (briefly) overpowers Imlerith, but this isn't outlier, or PIS. You're a hypocrite.
You can't honestly tell me that you think Spiderman is an 100 tonner.
I'm stating that Spiderman has more proof of him being a 100 tonner, than Geralt being a 1 tonner. However I don't beleive either are.
I don't remember that. Could you please link a video? Anyway, 20 pints is still a lot.
It's not important (it just illustrates how quick he gets drunk). A better comparison is with fisstech. A single fisstech causes Geralt to pass out. Since fisstech is taken by normal humans (without dying), and poison enough to trank an Elephant can kill a human. I'd assume a lot of Kraven's darts/bombs should be more than enough to take out Geralt (maybe even kill him).
Who can he consistently beat who is above Geralt's level? Keyword there is consistently.
That's the worst argument ever. Here's a better question; who has he lost to consistently that is below Geralt. Answer. No one.
Loading Video...
Here Geralt kills a Higher Vampire without prep. Higher Vampires are arguably the most powerful creatures in the world of The Witcher, save Dragons. (Which Geralt has also killed.)
Show me some feats for the higher Vampire.
Loading Video...
Here Geralt beats two other witchers at once. They have similar physicals to him due to the Trial of the Grasses and are incredibly skilled as well, since like all witchers they were trained rigorously from birth.
Two things:
That's the vampire scene again.
Witchers aren't very impressive.
The relevance is that if Spiderman hadn't encountered him before, he would underestimate him and would not expect the net.
They'd met before.
I was asking whether Kraven's net actually moves fater than a regular net. If not, Quen.
It's a net. Google net. They don't move. Also Geralt doesn't always use Quen, it wouldn't stop a net (it would just go around), and Geralt has to touch the floor to use Quen (apparently). Basically Kraven could decapitate him whilst he attempts it (or net him if he doesn't).
He can't exactly stay focused on swordplay and defense when he's throwing a net. I don't know about his darts or bombs, so I can't comment on those.
You ever seen a net man fight?
Why? Compare it to when Ivan Drago's fists don't move downwards when Apollo Creed hits them in Rocky 4.
Not comparable. Look at their stances.
Close to a 1 tonner feat? It would take around a one tonner to do that to an opponent who is looking straight at you and who was aware of your presence normally,
How old are you? These things have happened in real life (not the lift snap obviously), and no one is close to being a 1 tonner. You're ridiculous.
but Imlerith did it with one hand whilst already lifting the man up and he did it effortlessly.
It could still be done by a 1 tonner. What do you expect to happen by typing the same thing over, and over? That I'll just say your right? Never going to happen. Show proof that it would take more than 1 ton of strength, or stop posting nonsense.
It's a lot harder to snap someone's neck when you are lifting them off the ground with one hand. It is harder to exert the force.
It takes the same. 1000 lbs of force.
But considering no technique was applied to his neck snap and he did it with only raw strength. We can translate that to lifting strength as there was no technique involved.
No you can't. Lifting something means you are consistently producing the same (or more) force needed to lift it. Snapping someone's kneck is producing a single quick burst of force. It's not even comparable.
I may get to more strength feats for Geralt later.
I'll hold my breath.
Show when he was being ragdolled. he wasn't even touched until Imlerith grabbed him by the throat.
That's being ragdolled. He lifted him by the throat, and Geralt was couldn't break free. If it weren't for Igni, he'd have died.
He didn't win via skill, as you can clearly see that he overpowered him.
I'm talking about him winning the fight. Not the freaking sword push.
I disagree. Geralt won't rely on it, but how well will Kraven be able to fight with 3rd degree burns on his entire head?
You haven't proven Geralt could hit him, nor have you proven he'd use Igni.
Why?
Because Kraven is much faster than him.
He has a slight strength advantage, sure,
He overpower a 40 tonner. Geralt (briefly) overpowered a (possible) 1 tonner. You are rubbish at maths.
but Geralt has better bladed/piercing durability
No, he doesnt. This is utterly baseless.
and he is far quicker.
Fanboy statement. Kraven hits a man who moves at mach+ speeds, and had precog. Geralt fights ordinary humans.
Geralt appears as a blur even whilst running.
That's just descriptive writing. There's no way to calculate it other than it being faster than average.
Guards can't even see his sword move whilst in combat. Has Kraven ever been described as FTE?
Your arguments are honestly awful. Everyone and their mothers (at some point) are described as FTE. Only feats matter. This isn't one. BTW most weapons blur when swung. This is simply hyperbole.
Wrong. At least from what has been shown so far.
He fought (and beat) Spiderman (a 40 tonner), and Vermin (a guy who gave Spiderman and Cap together trouble) unarmed. Geralts biggest foes are only a little faster/stronger, or are incredibly stupid.
Has Kraven ever beaten somebody who is around his level physically and exceptionally skilled?
Black Panther is more skilled, and a multi-tonner. He has armour that can tank punches from Hulk, and claws that can cut his skin. Kraven beat him despite being a villain.
It is Geralt's job to kill monsters faster and stronger than he is, so skill feats that will matter here are ones where Kraven is fighting an opponent both great physically and very skilled. Spiderman only comes under one of those.
Do a Spiderman Vs. Geralt thread. Watch everyone laugh at you for your ignorance.
Loading Video...
Here is Geralt killing another witcher whilst blinded by a flash bomb.
Feats for that Witcher?
As it stands, Geralt has a clear edge in skill here.
You just ignore everything, and say the same thing over, and over.
Please show them again. I don't recall.
Scroll up. Click on the spoilers. Lazy, and annoying
Anyway, if Spiderman is an 100 tonner and Kraven is a 5 tonner by your statement, how would he be able to overwhelm Spiderman?
I didn't say Spiderman was a 100 tonner. I said he has more feats suggesting it, than feats suggesting Geralt is a 1 tonner.
It knocks down a witcher, and witchers are multi-tonners. Being able to lift a lot doesn't stop you getting knocked down by a magical force.
They aren't multi-tonners. Please make a thread asking "Are Witchers multi-tonner's" I'm begging you. I need a good laugh.
Here is Geralt clearing a target amount of rubble with Aard. Kraven's lifting strength will not stop him from being pushed over by a magical force.
Show a cutscene of AARD doing so. ATM this is as likely as the argument that MC can flip tanks.
Even by comic standards that is impressive.
Nope.
It may not be impressive by Spiderman standards, but by your claims he is an 100 tonner and Kraven is a 5 tonner, so that isn't relevant here.
I never said that. Apparently all you can do is lie, and low ball.
Generous? I am only showing feats.How are you being stingy in any way?
Because you are taking the Imlerith kneck snap feat, and without trying to calculate it, are just saying it makes Imlerith is a multi tonner. You them use the ABC logic of: "If Geralt can overpower Imlerith (no matter for how long) then he must be as strong, or stronger". You dont consider if Imlerith was using his full strength. You dont consider if Geralt has a burst of adrenaline. And you don't consider it could be PIS (and based on how Imlerith picks up Geralt, and actually overpowers him, it very much suggest Geralt isn't close to as strong). On the otherhand despite Spiderman having feats in the 100+ tons area, and despite Kraven overpowering him . I have put Spiderman as a 40 tonner, and Kraven as a 5 tonner. Using your logic, both would be 100 tonner (which ofcourse they aren't).
What?
Are you serious? Kraven obviously doesn't rely on just strength/speed, otherwise he wouldn't beat someone faster/stronger than him. How can't you get that?.
But I've shown facts to support it. I will show another one then.
Another witcher effortlessly tosses Geralt through a brick wall with only one hand, and he carries on moving even after he has broken through the wall. That would be a multi-tonner feat even with two hands being used.
Firstly that place is calling apart (which greatly takes away from your argument). Secondly that wouldn't take multiple tons of force. Show your work. Stop guessing. It's honestly embarassing.
When they clash swords they are shown to be even in strength.
This is irrelevant (since you severly overrated the feat above it).
Imlerith is a lot heavier than Kraven, especially in his armour. It would stagger Imlerith but it wouldn't knock him down. It's weight that matters here, not lifting strength.
Based on?
But it did in both the feats.
Here is another one.
He isn't moving with it around him. Invalid.
Although Spiderman is very quick, he always holds back immensely in-character. He has been tagged by Captain America and Daredevil before.
The Cap fight, and DD fight have been debunked (a lot). If you make a thread with Spiderman Vs. Both. Most will say Spiderman (Even if he holds back). BTW He holds back his punches, not hos dodging.
Lol. He also killed her.
You said "Witchers never underestimate their opponent", or words to that effect. He underestimated her. So you were wrong.
Geralt has an advantage from what has been shown so far.
That's because you are looking through fanboy goggles.
You are correct about him not abusing signs. However, in the Imlerith fight you can see he uses both Aard and Igni
That's fair. However Imlerith killed his mentor. Therfore he wouldn't be fighting the same.
Admittedly Geralt hasn't shown that he can move with Quen, (he would also have no reason to,) and lifting strength doesn't matter against Aard, weight does.
This is pretty baseless.
Aim dodging. What speed feats does Storm have to suggest she's faster than Geralt?
Anyway, Geralt will be using swords and magic, rather than just one.
What you're saying is comparable to Spiderman using fists + webs against Superman. It's ridiculous. You can't just act like they're equal. They aren't.
Yes, but Geralt is quicker than Storm and will be casting signs at a closer range.
You know nothing of the character, but still say she casts slower......that's telling.
Aard is.
It really isn't much faster than a punch.
Storm isn't as quick as Geralt
Baseless. She's fast enough to hit these six drones at once:
And accurate enough to hit this bad guy without so much as stinging her friend:
and she was casting from further away.
You're not even trying to be objective, are you? What does it matter if Geralt is closer? Her lightning travels litterly hundreds of thousands of times faster than Geralt.
It moves almost instantly
No, it doesn't. It bearly moves at a crossbow's speed.
I should add
I'm getting pretty bored with this conversation. And since you respond to all my posts (whether they're directed at you, or not), and since you ask questions I've already answered (you do this constantly). These posts are just becoming ever longer. I'd suggest you work out your feats (before claiming they are true). And check to see if I've answered questions (before posting them). If you keep adding, and adding to the posts (without actually adding to the conversation). I'm just going to stop answering.
@serpinethegreen: Can't speak for the second scan but Kaine one-shot Kravne after Kraven critically wounded one of his friends, and then jump started his heart again later. It's pretty evident that Kaine was holding back because of his no killing moral.
@serpinethegreen: Can't speak for the second scan but Kaine one-shot Kravne after Kraven critically wounded one of his friends, and then jump started his heart again later. It's pretty evident that Kaine was holding back because of his no killing moral.
It really bothers me how quick people are to dismiss this fight, and say "Kaine isn't trying" etc. It's bogus. Is Kaine trying to kill Kraven? Ofcourse not. Does that mean he's going easy on him? No, it doesn't. Here's a scan depicting Kaines internal monologue:
Now why would he think that? Why would he make the strength/speed comparison to Peter, if he wasn't using speed/strength at (or higher than) Peters?
Why would he make the strength/speed comparison to Peter, if he wasn't using speed/strength at (or higher than) Peters?
Because he's holding back. The entire reason Kraven tied down innocents and provoked Kaine was to get him to stop holding back and kill him. That was the point of the fight, and the dialogue reflects this as well. Either way, my point was that Kaine is physically stronger than Peter and is in the 30-40ish ton range you were talking about, not Peter. Peter, while strong, is around 20-30 tons in terms of strength. It's still far above what Geralt is capable of dishing out or dealing with though.
@serpinethegreen: you post a scan of storm trying to slow kraven down. You think storm is going to strike kraven with lightning when he is carrying a person? Come on now. This is a hostage situation, storm is altering his path causing him to move side to side while BP is running laterally to catch up.
That doesn't make sense. Your response, I mean. It's evident he isn't trying to kill Kraven, but I don't see why he'd state that he's faster/stronger than that Spiderman, if he wasn't atleast trying to win. It would be like me losing to a 6 year (on purpose), and thinking "But I'm stronger/faster". The only justification is that he doesn't know he's holding back (unlikely).
The entire reason Kraven tied down innocents and provoked Kaine was to get him to stop holding back and kill him. That was the point of the fight, and the dialogue reflects this as well.
Kraven's dialogue isn't as relevant as Kaines internal monologue. Just because Kaine is holding back, that doesn't mean he's not trying at all. Here's a couple of scans proving this:
Why would he comment on Kraven being fast, if he were letting himself be hit?
Why would he think "I can't get away", if he went trying?
I should add I don't think Kraven would beat a totally serious Kaine in a fight. But neither do I beleive that Kaine would demolish him. Kaine may have "one shot" Kraven, but without seeing the scan. I don't know the circumstances of the feat. For all I know he took Kraven by surprise (if only a little). I may add that Kaine "one shotting" Kraven seems a little inconsistent with Kraven's durability:
Him doing so could be seen as slight PIS (I could be wrong). It makes little difference either way. My point isn't that Kraven is as strong/durable as Kaine/Peter. It's that Kraven is clearly Spiderman level in speed. He doesn't need to be anywhere near as strong, or durable (since the speed + skill alone is way above Geralt's pay grade).
Either way, my point was that Kaine is physically stronger than Peter and is in the 30-40ish ton range you were talking about, not Peter.
I disagree (not with Kaine being stronger), Peter has many feats over the 20 ton range. It's very odd that people take one outlier feat, and then state that a character can do this whenever, but they totally ignore the higher (or even mid-high) feats done by Spiderman.
Peter, while strong, is around 20-30 tons in terms of strength.
Personally I beleive this is when he starts struggling. I don't beleive 30 tons is by any means a limit. If this is what you mean, then I agree.
It's still far above what Geralt is capable of dishing out or dealing with though.
Spot on.
@slimj87d
@serpinethegreen: you post a scan of storm trying to slow kraven down. You think storm is going to strike kraven with lightning when he is carrying a person?
Ahem, I'll just leave this here:
Come on now. This is a hostage situation, storm is altering his path causing him to move side to side while BP is running laterally to catch up
Baseless. Does the dialogue reflects this? No. Does it make sense to just try and "slow him down", if she can zap him? No. The first part of the scan has Kraven swerving away from where one of her bolts hit FFS. If she were trying not to hit Kraven, he wouldn't need to swerve (to avoid being hit).
@serpinethegreen: that's pretty bogus scientifically, but your scan does support that storm has some special control over lightning. I'd like to research how consistent this ability is of hers if I ever get the free time.
But I wouldn't rule out Geralt's ability to throw signs up close, he has the ability to react and fight against opponents who are harder to hit than Kraven, the bruxa. Not only is she fast, I believe higher vampires move fast as bolts from a crossbow, but she can turn invisible while doing it.
I would say what gives Kraven an advantage over many of his opponents is that he's good with knowledge and understanding of their abilities. Here he's going in blind against Geralt and wouldn't expect Geralt to suddenly fire flames of lava out of his hand.
Like I said before, I believe Kraven will take the majority. My original post were to address that Geralt does use signs in combat, something I believe you are aware of now. The reason why it's not a stomp is because Geralt does have ways to give Kraven a hard time. He can shield himself from meteorite like attacks, he can send kraven flying with the initial kick of Aard and he can scortch and burn kraven up close. This isnt magic being thrown from a human, geralt has heightened senses himself and is fast and skilled enough to deflect bolts from crossbows. Iirc, he deflected 2 coming a few feet apart with two strikes, meaning he had to have moved far faster than. Dealing with a bruxa is harder than that if they're fast as a bolt and can strike multiple times.
A stomp is only when someone doesn't have to work for the win. Seeing that geralt has fought and defeated beings more physically stronger than him, like striga, bruxa, dragons, higher elves that can teleport,etc, kraven will have to work for the win.
@serpinethegreen: I will now debunk your points, though I will not respond to your petty insults because insulting someone because you are losing an internet debate is quite pathetic.
Oh my god......I was joking, but you actually think it would work if Superman couldn't fly.....
I misphrased it. My point was that Kraven has no abilities to keep him on the ground when Aard is used on him, so he will be knocked over. I do not think that Aard would knock down Superman. That is a bad comparison, considering we're talking about street levelers.
It isn't the "fall over spell", it's a sign that knocks people over due to the force of the spell.
I know.
You are applying a NLF, and it's ridiculous.
NLF?
Nothing he did was above what a 1 tonner could do.
Doing things which require multi-ton strength is above what a one-tonner can do.
Of course it does. With enough adrenaline I could lift a car, but I couldn't do it for long.
Both of them were fighting, so if you say Geralt was possibly adrenaline buffed you have to consider that Imlerith possibly was too. There is no evidence to support that either one of them were buffed by adrenaline. Even if he were, he is fighting here and would gain the same adrenaline buff.
Geralt's body took better, so he got more.
It was only specified that Geralt had undergone special mutations. The result of these mutations were never discussed. Letho didn't recieve the extra mutations that Geralt did, and he was shown to be even with him, if not better.
I'm talking about Geralts arms shattering (since he's never dealt with force close to Kraven's)
And yet you have still not given strength feats for Kraven to support this.
I've shown him overpower Vermin (something Spiderman couldn't do without Captain America)
You said yourself that Kraven is a 5 tonner and Spiderman is a 40 tonner. If your claims are true, this is clear PIS as it messes with the characters' established strength feats.
I've shown him overpower Spiderman (a 40 tonner).
What I said before.
You have only shown Geralt "overpower" Imlerith who is a 1 tonner (at best).
Why is overpower in quotation marks? Anyway, I have already proven that Imlerith is above a one-tonner.
I'm talking about Imlerith FFS. Read before you damn well post.
What he did takes multi-tonner strength, so your statement is clearly wrong.
Because he isn't shown actually fighting them.
What? I asked you why Geralt wouldn't be able to hit Kraven with Igni. This response makes no sense.
Look I've held my tongue (or virtual tongue), I've tried to be nice, but you are officially a fanboy.
You completely missed the point I made. Read my comment. You said that you won't classify one of Geralt's feats as an actual feat because it hurts your already weak argument, so I responded saying that if Geralt's feat is void then I don't see why we should take Kraven's feats into consideration.
Kraven's fought mobs of foes (with guns). He came out alive.
Scans?
And yet a guy who casually tags spiderman (a guy who moves at bullet speeds) would have trouble.
Spiderman holding back has trouble with him. He has also been defeated by Captain America, who is generally portrayed as a half-tonner. He is also nowhere near as quick as Spiderman.
You realise Black Panther is one of the most skilled fighters in the marvel universe, and is wearing a suit that absorbs kinetic attacks.
In your previous comment you claimed that Kraven defeats Black Panther, now you are pretending you didn't. You are lying about Kraven's feats because I am not knowledgeable on Kraven and don't think that I will call you out on it. This makes me wonder about what other supposed feats were lies.
Didn't he beat the Iron spider? That's the ultimate verse spiderman. Doesn't count.
I wasn't talking about Ultimate Spiderman and Cap. I can't think of the specific instance right now, but I will let you know when I do. They also fought almost evenly in Civil War, even though Cap is outclassed in terms of physicals. Cap even had an edge during the fight.
I don't have it.
Does that mean it didn't happen?
Lowballing again. Look you can lie to yourself all you want, but to a person who actually knows Spiderman books. You come off as noob.
I am not lowballing, 616 Spiderman is consistently portrayed as a 20-25 tonner.
Spiderman has multiple feats of him being a "100 tonner", but they are all "outlier", or "PIS".
I know. He is not consistently at that level. You even admitted this yourself.
Geralt has one feat where he (briefly) overpowers Imlerith, but this isn't outlier, or PIS.
I know. Don't forget the Letho feat. Geralt has no anti-feats to show that these are outliers. He has shown no upper limit.
I'm stating that Spiderman has more proof of him being a 100 tonner, than Geralt being a 1 tonner. However I don't beleive either are.
Even though they are strong, witchers rely on speed and skill more than strength. Of course Spiderman has more feats, his number of appearances dwarves Geralt's.
It's not important (it just illustrates how quick he gets drunk).
Being drunk after 20 pints makes him a lightweight?
A better comparison is with fisstech. A single fisstech causes Geralt to pass out. Since fisstech is taken by normal humans (without dying), and poison enough to trank an Elephant can kill a human. I'd assume a lot of Kraven's darts/bombs should be more than enough to take out Geralt (maybe even kill him).
No it doesn't. When his face is planted in fisstech Geralt stays awake and kills someone. Fisstech resistance is also not the same as toxin resistance, as far as I know. Anyway, you can't tell me that you think regular humans have higher toxin resistance than Geralt does.
Here's a better question; who has he lost to consistently that is below Geralt. Answer. No one.
Does that mean that Kraven can't beat anyone above Geralt's level?
Show me some feats for the higher Vampire.
That's the vampire scene again.
No it isn't.
Witchers aren't very impressive.
Lol. This shows your lack of knowledge.
They'd met before.
Had they fought before, and did Spiderman know about his equipment and fighting style? I want scans to back it up.
It's a net. Google net. They don't move.
They do when they are thrown.
Also Geralt doesn't always use Quen,
He does when things are thrown at him.
it wouldn't stop a net (it would just go around)
Or, more likely, it would drop to the ground, as it probably can't wrap round a magical barrier. Things going into Axii are rebounded.
Geralt has to touch the floor to use Quen (apparently).
He is shown to do this in the games.
In The Last Wish, Geralt casts it by crossing his fingers.
Basically Kraven could decapitate him whilst he attempts it (or net him if he doesn't).
Does Kraven throw nets at close range? If so, Geralt's speed feats are more impressive and Kraven would not expect Quen.
You ever seen a net man fight?
No. Please explain how Kraven would keep his defense up whilst throwing a net.
Not comparable. Look at their stances.
Elaborate.
These things have happened in real life (not the lift snap obviously), and no one is close to being a 1 tonner.
Show me a source or video of someone in real life doing what Imlerith did. As for your point about no one being close to a one-tonner in real life, Hafthór Júlíus Björnsson carried a 10m long, 1430lbs log five steps. He is at least close to a one-tonner.
It could still be done by a 1 tonner. What do you expect to happen by typing the same thing over, and over? That I'll just say your right? Never going to happen. Show proof that it would take more than 1 ton of strength, or stop posting nonsense.
I already have. I don't claim to be a science expert, but I already explained the feat. You also ignored my Letho feat.
It takes the same. 1000 lbs of force.
It is harder to actually exert the force whilst lifting them though.
No you can't. Lifting something means you are consistently producing the same (or more) force needed to lift it. Snapping someone's kneck is producing a single quick burst of force. It's not even comparable.
So when Imlerith wants to snap someone's neck he suddenly gains more strength for a few seconds? Anyway, show me strength feats for Kraven which aren't him overpowering people who are stronger, even by your own admission.
That's being ragdolled. He lifted him by the throat, and Geralt was couldn't break free. If it weren't for Igni, he'd have died.
Beating someone in a fight and causing them to drop their weapon and rush you because they realize they are outmatched is not being ragdolled.
I'm talking about him winning the fight. Not the freaking sword push.
What? You claimed that Geralt was outmatched in strength, even though he overpowered Imlerith.
You haven't proven Geralt could hit him, nor have you proven he'd use Igni.
Because Kraven is much faster than him.
And yet you have shown no speed feats for him.
He overpower a 40 tonner. Geralt (briefly) overpowered a (possible) 1 tonner.
But you have claimed that Spiderman is a 40 tonner, (even though he is closer to 25,) and that Kraven is a 5 tonner. This makes Spiderman multiple times stronger than Kraven, so it is clearly bad writing if Kraven manages to overpower him. I would still like to see scans of Kraven overpowering him. You could have made that up too.
No, he doesnt. This is utterly baseless.
The base is that Geralt actually has piercing/slashing durability feats, whilst you even said before that Kraven doesn't.
Fanboy statement. Kraven hits a man who moves at mach+ speeds, and had precog.
Show him moving at Mach+ speeds and using precog.
Geralt fights ordinary humans.
You do realize that it is Geralt's job to kill supernatural monsters, right?
That's just descriptive writing. There's no way to calculate it other than it being faster than average.
You are ignoring a feat. Geralt is too fast to be fully perceived. Kraven has never been described as appearing as a blur; at least not from what you've shown.
Everyone and their mothers (at some point) are described as FTE.
Except for Kraven, apparently.
Only feats matter. This isn't one.
Swinging your sword so fast that it cannot be percieved isn't a feat?
BTW most weapons blur when swung.
The soldier didn't say that Geralt's sword blurred when he swung it, he said that he couldn't see it. If it moved like it was swung by an ordinary human, the soldier wouldn't have commented on it and said that it was impressive.
This is simply hyperbole.
Proof?
He fought (and beat) Spiderman (a 40 tonner), and Vermin (a guy who gave Spiderman and Cap together trouble) unarmed. Geralts biggest foes are only a little faster/stronger, or are incredibly stupid.
I'm still waiting for scans.
Black Panther is more skilled, and a multi-tonner. He has armour that can tank punches from Hulk, and claws that can cut his skin. Kraven beat him despite being a villain.
You admitted earlier that Black Panther would beat Kraven, and before that you said that Kraven would beat Black Panther. Make up your mind. When did Black Panther take punches from the Hulk, and when was he shown to be a multi-tonner? He is usually shown as Captain America's physical equal, and he can lift just over half a ton.
Do a Spiderman Vs. Geralt thread. Watch everyone laugh at you for your ignorance.
But I think that Spiderman would win. My point was that Spiderman isn't particularly skilled, and feats of fighting opponents who are both superhuman physically and still very skilled are more relevant in this fight.
Feats for that Witcher?
Wiping out everyone in a village whilst injured.
You just ignore everything, and say the same thing over, and over.
Ignore what? You haven't given any credible skill feats.
I didn't say Spiderman was a 100 tonner. I said he has more feats suggesting it, than feats suggesting Geralt is a 1 tonner.
Of course he does, Spiderman has far more appearances than Geralt.
They aren't multi-tonners. Please make a thread asking "Are Witchers multi-tonner's" I'm begging you. I need a good laugh.
I have already shown it, so I don't need to create a thread to confirm what I already know.
Show a cutscene of AARD doing so. ATM this is as likely as the argument that MC can flip tanks.
It is an actual objective in-game, supported by character dialogue.
Nope.
Yep.
I never said that. Apparently all you can do is lie, and low ball.
Any yet you are the one who said that Kraven can beat Black Panther and then pretended not to when I showed you a scan of the reverse happening, and claimed that witchers aren't impressive. You have literally ignored feats. You also lied about the context of the Storm fight until another user pointed out the lie. You claimed that being FTE wasn't impressive.
You dont consider if Imlerith was using his full strength.
He has no reason to hold back against an opponent he is trying to kill.
You dont consider if Geralt has a burst of adrenaline.
If you consider that Geralt had a burst of adrenaline, you have to consider that Imlerith did too. Anyway, he is in a fight here so there is nothing to suggest that he wouldn't get adrenaline boosted here, too.
And you don't consider it could be PIS (and based on how Imlerith picks up Geralt, and actually overpowers him, it very much suggest Geralt isn't close to as strong).
Imlerith doesn't overpower Geralt, he rushes him and picks him up.
Are you serious? Kraven obviously doesn't rely on just strength/speed, otherwise he wouldn't beat someone faster/stronger than him. How can't you get that?.
You haven't shown feats for him where he beats people similar to him physically and who are very skilled.
Firstly that place is calling apart (which greatly takes away from your argument).
Based on?
Secondly that wouldn't take multiple tons of force.
Of course it would. Show that it wouldn't. Most people can't even punch a hole in a brick wall, let alone throw someone through it with one hand and do it with such force that they carry on moving after going through it.
This is irrelevant (since you severly overrated the feat above it).
Show me how.
Based on?
Geralt can knock down opponents with weight similar to a humans, but not large, heavy opponents.
He isn't moving with it around him. Invalid.
I never said he was. I even admitted earlier that Geralt hasn't moved with Quen activated.
The Cap fight, and DD fight have been debunked (a lot). If you make a thread with Spiderman Vs. Both. Most will say Spiderman (Even if he holds back). BTW He holds back his punches, not hos dodging.
If you view a thread with Kraven vs Captain America, most say Captain America. Here you go. If you claim that Spiderman can beat two combatants at once, and even one of those is capable of soloing Kraven, surely he is leagues below Spiderman and cannot beat him like you claim.
You said "Witchers never underestimate their opponent", or words to that effect. He underestimated her. So you were wrong.
He didn't know she was an opponent, so I was correct.
That's because you are looking through fanboy goggles.
That's because I am looking at feats.
That's fair. However Imlerith killed his mentor. Therfore he wouldn't be fighting the same.
So you think Geralt holds back in character? Anyway, if one sign isn't effective Geralt is smart enough to just use others.
This is pretty baseless.
So is your point about Kraven being immune to Quen because he can lift a lot. Weight is obviously more important because more force is required to take it down.
What you're saying is comparable to Spiderman using fists + webs against Superman.
No it isn't. Geralt has an edge in speed and skill, so having magic as another advantage is a massive bonus, especially when your opponent is not prepared and has not fought anyone like you before.
It really isn't much faster than a punch.
Source? Even if you were correct, (which you aren't as the game clearly shows that it quickly reaches opponents,) Aard has a much larger AoE than a punch and is harder to dodge as a result. He can also Aard his surrounding area.
Baseless. She's fast enough to hit these six drones at once:
And accurate enough to hit this bad guy without so much as stinging her friend:
You're not even trying to be objective, are you? What does it matter if Geralt is closer? Her lightning travels litterly hundreds of thousands of times faster than Geralt.
As someone else debunked, Storm wasn't trying to hit Kraven, and you didn't give me the context of the feat in the hopes that no one else would point it out.
No, it doesn't. It bearly moves at a crossbow's speed.
That doesn't make sense. Your response, I mean. It's evident he isn't trying to kill Kraven, but I don't see why he'd state that he's faster/stronger than that Spiderman, if he wasn't atleast trying to win. It would be like me losing to a 6 year (on purpose), and thinking "But I'm stronger/faster". The only justification is that he doesn't know he's holding back (unlikely).
I suppose it depends on the way you interpret the dialogue, but for me, I believe Kaine stated his statistical advantage to Spider-Man to highlight how he's holding back and losing, despite him being more powerful than Peter, who usually himself defeats Kraven in a one on one. If anything it shows that Kaine isn't as experienced yet holding back against someone as ferocious of an opponent as Kraven. He is trying to win, but he isn't taking the right measures in order to achieve it. He certainly has the capabilities. The entire fight Kaine was trying to convince Kraven that he was crazy and he wouldn't kill him, trying to reason with him. He tells Kraven he's done twice in the fight. It isn't until Meland was critically wounded that Kaine got more serious. The fact that he points out that Kraven is holding back should contrast with Kaine himself holding back IMO.
Kraven's dialogue isn't as relevant as Kaines internal monologue. Just because Kaine is holding back, that doesn't mean he's not trying at all. Here's a couple of scans proving this:
It's more so out of surprise if anything. He's underestimating Kraven and thinks that even though he's holding back and trying to reason with him, he's capable of defeating him soundly. Kraven himself also mentions this.
Gallery
The entire fight had a theme of Kaine not going his all (but also the theme of his morality and not killing) against Kraven, holding back like Spider-Man going against someone like Kraven until he was pushed into his more violent nature, which is also where he is best in terms of his capabilities. Even after he was pushed into "killing" Kraven, he redeems himself by reviving him.
Why would he think "I can't get away", if he went trying?
He can still be holding back and be unable to get away. I do think this is around the part where Kaine starts to stop holding back though. It's just a bit too late since Kraven already has a firm upper hand and is laying onto him and he can't get away, which is also in Kraven's capabilities of doing.
I should add I don't think Kraven would beat a totally serious Kaine in a fight. But neither do I beleive that Kaine would demolish him. Kaine may have "one shot" Kraven, but without seeing the scan. I don't know the circumstances of the feat. For all I know he took Kraven by surprise (if only a little). I may add that Kaine "one shotting" Kraven seems a little inconsistent with Kraven's durability:
Him doing so could be seen as slight PIS (I could be wrong). It makes little difference either way. My point isn't that Kraven is as strong/durable as Kaine/Peter. It's that Kraven is clearly Spiderman level in speed. He doesn't need to be anywhere near as strong, or durable (since the speed + skill alone is way above Geralt's pay grade).
Kaine wouldn't demolish him, just like Spider-Man wouldn't. Both of them have their pros and cons. Kaine is statistically stronger but is less experienced in general and especially against Kraven, and doesn't have Spider-Sense. That being said, Kraven wouldn't have been able to land as many hits or injure Kaine to the extent that he did in Scarlet Spider #23 if Kaine wasn't trying to reason with him and holding back to a degree. Kraven would put up a fight just like he would with Peter, but it would still nonetheless end quicker and with a more definite win in Kaine's favor.
The Hulk feat is a really good one, and it's definitely one of his more high-end durability feats. However, the problem with it is that we're not sure if Kraven's knocked out by the second panel with the second hit or not, since the second and third panel don't show Kraven's face and he's not even grunting, nor does he have any dialogue. It's definitely plausible that Kraven was actually unconscious after the second or so blow from Hulk. It's still impressive regardless considering how strong Hulk is, it just makes it slightly less impressive.
Kaine knocking out Kraven wasn't PIS either. It was perfectly understandable and possible. Kaine stopped holding back and went for a kill-shot. The kill-shot was incredibly fast I'd even argue that Kraven wasn't able to react to it (in the sense that he couldn't even see it coming, let alone unable to dodge it). Also Kaine hit him dead center in the heart specifically in order to stop it from beating, so it was a combination of 30-40+ ton strength and technique.
You could argue maybe he was "surprised", but it's more so from him unable to react, and a little because of the fact that Kaine was holding back and then suddenly stops and hits him full force in the heart. I think this reinforces my argument so far a bit more as well. I agree completely with Kraven being above Geralt in almost every field that counts here. I will say however, that Geralt's swordsmanship and magical signs are also impressive on their own right and offer a counter to Kraven's various hunting gear. Whether they're an equal and valid counter is a completely different argument though.
Either way, my point was that Kaine is physically stronger than Peter and is in the 30-40ish ton range you were talking about, not Peter.
I disagree (not with Kaine being stronger), Peter has many feats over the 20 ton range. It's very odd that people take one outlier feat, and then state that a character can do this whenever, but they totally ignore the higher (or even mid-high) feats done by Spiderman.
Peter, while strong, is around 20-30 tons in terms of strength.
Personally I beleive this is when he starts struggling. I don't beleive 30 tons is by any means a limit. If this is what you mean, then I agree.
It's still far above what Geralt is capable of dishing out or dealing with though.
Spot on.
If I'm not mistaken I said that Peter was in the 10-20+ range. I do agree with you to an extent. I just don't think Peter is pushing anything above 30 unless it's one of his extremely high-end feats (not accounting for his more inconsistent near 100 ton PIS feats), and he's usually struggling.
@serpinethegreen: I will now debunk your points, though I will not respond to your petty insults because insulting someone because you are losing an internet debate is quite pathetic.
How am I losing? Practically everyone thinks Kraven wins.
I misphrased it. My point was that Kraven has no abilities to keep him on the ground when Aard is used on him, so he will be knocked over. I do not think that Aard would knock down Superman. That is a bad comparison, considering we're talking about street levelers.
Why wouldn't it? I thought you said "strength didn't matter, only weight matters" etc. Why the change of heart? Because it's ridiculous?
I know.
I'm not sure you do.....
NLF?
No limits fallacy.
Doing things which require multi-ton strength is above what a one-tonner can do.
You haven't proven this. You just keep saying it.
Both of them were fighting, so if you say Geralt was possibly adrenaline buffed you have to consider that Imlerith possibly was too.
Adrenaline doesn't kick in for no reason. Imlerith wouldn't have been adrenaline buffed "just because he's in battle". Something would have to have happened. Geralt being adrenaline buffed is very possible, since his father figure had just been murdered infront of him. It's quite possible Imlerith had an adrenaline buff after being stabbed, but it makes little difference (since Geralt overpowered him before said stab).
There is no evidence to support that either one of them were buffed by adrenaline.
Geralt's father figure had just been murdered in front of his very eyes. It's very likely that he'd have been full of adrenaline.
Even if he were, he is fighting here and would gain the same adrenaline buff.
Completely different circumstances.
It was only specified that Geralt had undergone special mutations. The result of these mutations were never discussed.
Which means the other witchers didn't get the same mutations. You can't say they're the same, when they aren't.
Letho didn't recieve the extra mutations that Geralt did, and he was shown to be even with him, if not better.
Letho has a hundred pounds of muscle over Geralt (and pretty much every Witcher in the series). Why wouldn't he be stronger?
And yet you have still not given strength feats for Kraven to support this.
I've given loads of feats. I showed him overpowering Vermin, and overpowering Spiderman. Why are you lying?
You said yourself that Kraven is a 5 tonner and Spiderman is a 40 tonner. If your claims are true, this is clear PIS as it messes with the characters' established strength feats.
It isn't PIS if it's consistent. BTW what do you mean by "established strength feats"? That litterly doesn't make sense. I said how strong I think Kraven should be. It has no bearing on his feats.
What I said before.
What you said has no bearing.
Why is overpower in quotation marks? Anyway, I have already proven that Imlerith is above a one-tonner.
It's in quotation marks, because it's inconsistent with the fight, and it lasted only a few seconds. You haven't proven Imlerith is above a one tonner. You've shown absolutely no working.
What he did takes multi-tonner strength, so your statement is clearly wrong.
You haven't proven this. You've just said it.
What? I asked you why Geralt wouldn't be able to hit Kraven with Igni. This response makes no sense.
He wouldn't be able to hit Kraven, because Kraven is a bullet timer. Geralt has no feats suggesting he could hit someone this fast.
You completely missed the point I made. Read my comment. You said that you won't classify one of Geralt's feats as an actual feat because it hurts your already weak argument,
How is my argument weak? Probably in the same way Geralt is a multi-tonner, right?
So I responded saying that if Geralt's feat is void then I don't see why we should take Kraven's feats into consideration.
Because Kraven's feats are actually shown. You can't disregard what actually happens in canon. You can disregard something not shown.
Scans?
There you go:
Spiderman holding back has trouble with him. He has also been defeated by Captain America, who is generally portrayed as a half-tonner.
You haven't shown 616 Spiderman losing to Cap, also the fact Spiderman respects Cap, he wouldn't want to fight him. I should also add that Captain America has multi-tonner feats:
His maintenance weight is 1 ton. Some will say it's 1100 lbs, but these people have never been in a gym. Each plate weighs 1100. No dumbell has the combined weight on a single plate.
Pretty clean cut. Captain (with a little help from tiny bucky), produces the strength of a two ton truck (which incidental is more than 2 tons). The fact they halt a moving car is easy in the two tons range (that's being stingy).
Not as impressive as the two above, but I like how it ties into your multi-tonner theory (since making a guys head twist all the way around is more impressive than just snapping a guys kneck).
That beam would weigh tons, upon tons. But I prefer the next scan (since its harder to deny).
I mean.......how could someone call him a "half tonner" after that?
He is also nowhere near as quick as Spiderman.
Lie. Even Kaine (who is faster than Peter) think's Kraven is fast, and if he doesn't take him seriously, well see for yourself:
Kaine can't escape Kraven.Kaine comments (internally) that Kraven is fastSpeed blitzes Kaine, slitting his throat.
In your previous comment you claimed that Kraven defeats Black Panther, now you are pretending you didn't. You are lying about Kraven's feats because I am not knowledgeable on Kraven and don't think that I will call you out on it. This makes me wonder about what other supposed feats were lies.
Don't call me liar, noob:
I wasn't talking about Ultimate Spiderman and Cap. I can't think of the specific instance right now, but I will let you know when I do.
Isn't that convenient.
They also fought almost evenly in Civil War, even though Cap is outclassed in terms of physicals. Cap even had an edge during the fight.
Civil war was meant to be Captain America's last hurrah. It's total PIS.
Does that mean it didn't happen?
It's Kraven's most famous story. Just Google Kraven. It 100% happened. I just don't own the comic. I do have Spiderman taking about it thou:
This also doubles as an impressive durability feat (since he tanked a punch to the head from a seriously pissed off Spiderman).
I know. Don't forget the Letho feat. Geralt has no anti-feats to show that these are outliers. He has shown no upper limit.
I was being ironic. It went completely over your head.
Even though they are strong, witchers rely on speed and skill more than strength. Of course Spiderman has more feats, his number of appearances dwarves Geralt's.
The point I'm making is that Geralt has less feats suggesting he's a 1+ tonner, than Spiderman has suggesting he's a 100+ tonner. The fact that you dismiss Spiderman being a 100+ tonner, but scream/rant about Geralt being a 1+ tonner makes you look like a delusional fanboy. Fact it Spiderman is no more a hundred tonner, than Geralts a tonner.
Being drunk after 20 pints makes him a lightweight?
He gets drunk after 3 - 5, he passes out at 20 (which definitly makes him a lightweight).
No it doesn't. When his face is planted in fisstech Geralt stays awake and kills someone
Having some on your face, isn't the same as snorting it.
Fisstech resistance is also not the same as toxin resistance, as far as I know. Anyway, you can't tell me that you think regular humans have higher toxin resistance than Geralt does.
I'm saying that some regular humans do, which means Geralt's toxin/poison resistance may only be applicable to specific toxins/poisons. You do realise not all toxins/poisons are the same, right?
Does that mean that Kraven can't beat anyone above Geralt's level?
He beat Spiderman, Black Panther, Vermin, Rhino, and Kaine. I've told you most of these a few times. Your memory is piss poor (probably overridden by your fanboy instincts).
None of this is close to characters like Kraven, Vermin, Black Panther, or Captain America. She has no feats above 1 tonner, and no movement speeds even above arrow speeds.
Lol. This shows your lack of knowledge.
No. You just haven't shown any feats putting them anywhere near even characters like DD.
Had they fought before, and did Spiderman know about his equipment and fighting style? I want scans to back it up.
He litterly says in the scan "I know Kraven's methods". Try reading the scans, I'll post it again:
He does when things are thrown at him.
It broke the carriage, it wouldn't break the net.
Or, more likely, it would drop to the ground, as it probably can't wrap round a magical barrier.
Based on?
Things going into Axii are rebounded.
Show me some Axii feats.
He is shown to do this in the games.
In The Last Wish, Geralt casts it by crossing his fingers.
Hmmmm. Satisfied with that. Won't help close range, or against bullets, but it could (possibly) help with the net.
Does Kraven throw nets at close range? If so, Geralt's speed feats are more impressive and Kraven would not expect Quen.
Make a thread. Kraven's movement/combat speed vs. Geralt's. ATM we aren't getting anywhere.
No. Please explain how Kraven would keep his defense up whilst throwing a net.
Because you use only one hand for the net:
He's so flippant about it.
Elaborate.
I swear you'd ask me to explain why waters wet. If you don't understand how their stances differ from looking alone, I can't explain it to you.
Show me a source or video of someone in real life doing what Imlerith did.
I litterly said no one has done it with one hand, lifting someone up. Read what I write, it's incredibly annoying. Also I can't post someone breaking another's kneck. That's murder you moron.
As for your point about no one being close to a one-tonner in real life, Hafthór Júlíus Björnsson carried a 10m long, 1430lbs log five steps. He is at least close to a one-tonner.
One ton is 2000lbs.
I already have. I don't claim to be a science expert, but I already explained the feat. You also ignored my Letho feat.
Your explanation doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter how you cut it, that feat isn't multi-ton worthy. Not close.
It is harder to actually exert the force whilst lifting them though.
No, it isn't. They're entirely different muscles.
So when Imlerith wants to snap someone's neck he suddenly gains more strength for a few seconds?
Anyway, show me strength feats for Kraven which aren't him overpowering people who are stronger, even by your own admission.
What? That's actually the stupidest argument you've ever made. How about you show some strength feats of Geralt's that aren't him matching/overpowering someone who has better strength feats. Honestly you've lost. Just give up.
Beating someone in a fight and causing them to drop their weapon and rush you because they realize they are outmatched is not being ragdolled.
No, but being lifted up be the throat and dangled helplessly is.
What? You claimed that Geralt was outmatched in strength, even though he overpowered Imlerith.
He briefly pushed him back. He was then lifted by the throat unable to break free.
What's this from? Regardless Kraven has a level of fire protection:
And yet you have shown no speed feats for him.
I've shown him beat Vermin, tag Spiderman (a bunch). And now I've shown Kaine comment on how fast he is, and Kaine being blitzed by Kraven. Bear in mind Kaine is faster and stronger than Spiderman:
But you have claimed that Spiderman is a 40 tonner, (even though he is closer to 25,) and that Kraven is a 5 tonner. This makes Spiderman multiple times stronger than Kraven, so it is clearly bad writing if Kraven manages to overpower him. I would still like to see scans of Kraven overpowering him. You could have made that up too.
I haven't made anything up:
The base is that Geralt actually has piercing/slashing durability feats, whilst you even said before that Kraven doesn't.
What it really says is Geralt has been hit by lesser opponents with swords. Also since Geralt was killed with a pitchfork, his piercing durability isn't exactly of the highest caliber.
Show him moving at Mach+ speeds and using precog.
Does both in this scan:
He moves 2 miles in 5 seconds. With a little math you can work out that there are 12 five seconds in a minute. Since Spiderman can move 2 miles in 5 seconds, he should potentially be able to move 24 miles in one minute. Since there are 60 minutes in an hour, we times 60 by 24, giving us 1440. Therefore Spiderman can move 1440MPH more than twice as fast as sound (which is 767.269MPH)
The precog is his Spidersense. Despite being a few blocks away, he can sense the bank being robbed. He also uses it in combat (which you should know being on a comic book site).
You do realize that it is Geralt's job to kill supernatural monsters, right?
You do realise he's killed by a man with a pitchfork, right?
You are ignoring a feat. Geralt is too fast to be fully perceived. Kraven has never been described as appearing as a blur; at least not from what you've shown.
It isn't a feat that can be calculated. Kraven hitting someone who moves at mach+ speeds, and dodging bullets are. Him moving at "blur speeds" is contracted by all the cinematics shown where he's moving only marginally faster than a normal man.
Except for Kraven, apparently.
Regardless it's incredibly dubious. BTW Kraven fights people who can dodge/see bullets In flight. They wouldnt see him as a blur, unless he were much faster than bullets. You have to bear in mind the persons point of view, after all.
Swinging your sword so fast that it cannot be percieved isn't a feat?
Correct.
The soldier didn't say that Geralt's sword blurred when he swung it, he said that he couldn't see it. If it moved like it was swung by an ordinary human, the soldier wouldn't have commented on it and said that it was impressive.
It's A) Hyperbole, and B) Contradicted on numerous occasions.
Proof?
Because he's clearly shown, and his sword is clearly shown in combat. That makes it hyperbole.
I'm still waiting for scans.
I showed the Vermin scans. You were too lazy to scroll up. Here you go:
You admitted earlier that Black Panther would beat Kraven, and before that you said that Kraven would beat Black Panther. Make up your mind
That's because they've both won/lost against each other, you ignorant fanboy.
When did Black Panther take punches from the Hulk,
Can't find that scan. I can show him being back handed by Hulk, and not being harmed:
He also took loads of punches from a psychotic Iron Fist. This scan states how Iron Fist hits like a freight train.
and when was he shown to be a multi-tonner? He is usually shown as Captain America's physical equal, and he can lift just over half a ton.
You were wrong about Cap, aaaaand you're wrong now. Stops an angry Elephant charging ( elephants weigh 4-10 tons usually ):
Brings down a 5 ton rhino:
But I think that Spiderman would win. My point was that Spiderman isn't particularly skilled, and feats of fighting opponents who are both superhuman physically and still very skilled are more relevant in this fight.
That's such bad logic. Geralt isn't comparable physically. Him fighting Kraven, is like him fighting a slightly weaker, more skilled (bloodlusted) Spiderman (with weapons).
Wiping out everyone in a village whilst injured.
That's a statement. Not a feat.
Ignore what? You haven't given any credible skill feats.
I've shown numerous. But like the Vermin fight, the strength feats, and the speed feats, you ignored them.
Of course he does, Spiderman has far more appearances than Geralt.
Your arguments are getting worse by the second.
I have already shown it, so I don't need to create a thread to confirm what I already know.
You're scared, aren't you? Hilarious. You know you are wrong, so you won't make the thread.
It is an actual objective in-game, supported by character dialogue.
Doesn't mean it isn't a game mechanic. It's like with in-game tutorials.
Any yet you are the one who said that Kraven can beat Black Panther and then pretended not to when I showed you a scan of the reverse happening,
I didn't pretend. Black Panther has beaten Kraven, just as Kraven has beaten Black Panther.
claimed that witchers aren't impressive. You have literally ignored feats. You also lied about the context of the Storm fight until another user pointed out the lie.
Didn't lie. Storm can hit people carrying others. The guy who posted about it admitted it himself, before you posted this. Since you can't be bothered to look up, here it is again:
You claimed that being FTE wasn't impressive.
It isn't.
He has no reason to hold back against an opponent he is trying to kill.
With controlled attacks, you don't necessarily use your full strength. It has nothing to do with "holding back".
If you consider that Geralt had a burst of adrenaline, you have to consider that Imlerith did too. Anyway, he is in a fight here so there is nothing to suggest that he wouldn't get adrenaline boosted here, too.
Already answered this.
Imlerith doesn't overpower Geralt, he rushes him and picks him up.
That's overpowering someone.
You haven't shown feats for him where he beats people similar to him physically and who are very skilled.
Geralt isn't physically similar, and I told you that he beat Black Panther.
Based on?
It's clearly dilapidated. Rosche actually breaks a wall when he comes to get Geralt + Triss when they originally got stuck there IIRC.
Of course it would. Show that it wouldn't. Most people can't even punch a hole in a brick wall, let alone throw someone through it with one hand and do it with such force that they carry on moving after going through it.
A car (which weighs 1-2 tons) when pushed down a short hill easily breaks through healthy walls. Weak wall can be pushed down (and those walks aren't healthy).
Show me how.
As above
Geralt can knock down opponents with weight similar to a humans, but not large, heavy opponents.
Superman doesn't weigh that much IIRC. Yet you said he wouldn't be knocked down.
I never said he was. I even admitted earlier that Geralt hasn't moved with Quen activated.
Fair enough.
If you view a thread with Kraven vs Captain America, most say Captain America. Here you go.
Kraven got better feats over those years. It's made pretty clear (since everyone except one said Kraven a few years later).
If you claim that Spiderman can beat two combatants at once, and even one of those is capable of soloing Kraven, surely he is leagues below Spiderman and cannot beat him like you claim.
I refer you to the above.
He didn't know she was an opponent, so I was correct.
He underestimated her. He made assumptions. You're a delusional liar.
That's because I am looking at feats.
All the feats you have shown are either outlier, or blown out of proportion.
So you think Geralt holds back in character? Anyway, if one sign isn't effective Geralt is smart enough to just use others.
Based on? Oh that's right, nothing.
So is your point about Kraven being immune to Quen because he can lift a lot. Weight is obviously more important because more force is required to take it down.
"Immune to Quen"? I'm pretty sure I was talking about him being resistant to Aard.
No it isn't. Geralt has an edge in speed and skill,
No. He doesn't. Kraven hasn't been killed by a civilian with a pitchfork. This alone shows Geralt isn't that fast, nor that skilled. Add to this all the speed feats which clearly surpass Geralt, and you have......something a fanboy may ignore.
so having magic as another advantage is a massive bonus, especially when your opponent is not prepared and has not fought anyone like you before.
Except, he can kill Geralt before he gets to magic.
Source? Even if you were correct, (which you aren't as the game clearly shows that it quickly reaches opponents,) Aard has a much larger AoE than a punch and is harder to dodge as a result.
Watch the hangman cinematic.
He can also Aard his surrounding area.
Which he's never done mid-battle. Only when running away (Kraven is faster than anyone in the Witcherverse).
As someone else debunked, Storm wasn't trying to hit Kraven, and you didn't give me the context of the feat in the hopes that no one else would point it out.
I don't know if anyone has pointed this out...but that scan of Kraven vs. Black Panther is Alyosha...Not Sergei.
Which one? The one Where BP wins? Or loses?
The only fight between T'Challa and Sergei was laced with factors and didn't have a winner. The fight where Kraven beats Black Panther in the kitchen, and then Black Panther stands over Kraven in front of the Avengers, are both Kraven's son, Alyosha.
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