IG Thanos also ranked Odin and Galan on par in power and importance.
And Kubik placed Celestial's far above Cube beings and Doom claimed a Cosmic Cube's power was far less than Galactus's... maybe a grain of salt is in order.
The Stranger is placed on that bottom level as well, so clearly the levels don't denote an equal degree of power among all characters placed in them.
As far as "importance" Galactus has a far closer relationship to abstracts that any of the characters ordered on the bottom tier. Adam Warlock even noted that Galactus's spirit was like that of Eternity and Infinity's.
Death suggested Galactus's role in the universe was more important than hers.
@fiendishmind: I personally see baseline one planet G as multi galactic at best. Far from universal. I think those battles which are sometimes used to say he is universal are heavy on context and hyperbole. Also, everything said in those panels about G has also been said about Odin while he was actually doing it.
Every instance when Galactus's battles threatened the universe, the threat was a critical plot moving element, so it's not some thing that can be attributed as hyperbole.
@fiendishmind: I personally see baseline one planet G as multi galactic at best. Far from universal. I think those battles which are sometimes used to say he is universal are heavy on context and hyperbole. Also, everything said in those panels about G has also been said about Odin while he was actually doing it.
Every instance when Galactus's battles threatened the universe, the threat was a critical plot moving element, so it's not some thing that can be attributed as hyperbole.
I don't fully agree with that assessment. If you want to go through each and every one right here we can.
@fiendishmind: I personally see baseline one planet G as multi galactic at best. Far from universal. I think those battles which are sometimes used to say he is universal are heavy on context and hyperbole. Also, everything said in those panels about G has also been said about Odin while he was actually doing it.
Every instance when Galactus's battles threatened the universe, the threat was a critical plot moving element, so it's not some thing that can be attributed as hyperbole.
I don't fully agree with that assessment. If you want to go through each and every one right here we can.
Sure.
The instance in The Mighty Thor Annual has every involved character including Oblivion, acknowledging that the final battle was about to cause the destruction of the universe, this acknowledgment directly causing the involved parties to cease their conflict and resolving the plot.
The instance in Silver Surfer: Judgment Day also has the acknowledgment of the threat shifting the characters actions and ultimately resolving the plot, in this case it's Surfer first recognizing the potential imminent destruction and his plea to Galactus that causes Galactus to cease the direct clash of power and instead outwit Mephisto. Afterwards, Galactus acknowledges Surfer's warning had merit by directly expressing gratitude to him.
@fiendishmind: I don't recall if I've read that Thor annual(I don't think I have) but I'd need more to go on about that incident. Regarding the battle with Mephisto, I find that comment by Surfer to be extremely hyperbolic and made at a time when he was under extreme duress as I recall. I don't give it much merit and it would also be a massive outlier for Mephisto which weakens it as well imo. I look at those much like how I look at Odin's battle with Seth(though I actually think going off statements that battle has more merit). Its still too much of an outlier for me to classify Odin as being a true universal+ type character.
@fiendishmind: I don't recall if I've read that Thor annual(I don't think I have) but I'd need more to go on about that incident. Regarding the battle with Mephisto, I find that comment by Surfer to be extremely hyperbolic and made at a time when he was under extreme duress as I recall. I don't give it much merit and it would also be a massive outlier for Mephisto which weakens it as well imo. I look at those much like how I look at Odin's battle with Seth(though I actually think going off statements that battle has more merit). Its still too much of an outlier for me to classify Odin as being a true universal+ type character.
I can probably scrounge up the most relevant scans for The Mighty Thor Annual but yeah you should read it yourself if you can.
The destruction had already started and was stepping up as the battle continued. It doesn't matter if Surfer was under duress, it wouldn't even matter if he was out of his mind, it's the fact that Galactus acknowledged the threat and shifted his actions that proves it wasn't hyperbole. Galactus has had no problem letting his battles shatter galaxies before so the threat in this instance had to be far more significant.
@fiendishmind: I see Mephisto being involved in a battle which threatens the universe the same way I would view a battle between Spiderman and Vulture threatening to bust planet earth. I see that statement by Surfer as pure hyperbole or else pis.
In the past Thor has encountered a weak and starving Galactus and has managed to best him him, even though he was fighting alongside the Avengers, Galactus was having a fairly difficult time combating them. On other occasions, Thor has been powerful enough to damage Galactus at higher levels of power. We can safely determine that a Starving Galactus wouldn't be capable of tangling with the likes of Skyfathers just yet.
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Odin vs Thor & Avengers
Without any weaponry of enhancements Odin has fought against Thor on several occasions. Without resulting to weapons like the Destroyer or the full scope of the Odinforce (which comprises all of Asgard), Odin has managed to banish Thor and bring him back to Asgard and Thor has no recollection of what occurred unless Odin informed him. Without any weapons, Odin is capable of handling the Avengers, such as Tony Stark and Thor, without any problems whatsoever.
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Fed Galactus vs Thanos
Galactus was fed during his encounter with Thanos, however fighting him forced him to use most of his energy and actually forced him to become hungry again. He was forced to use two powerful blasts to break through his energy barriers.
During his encounter with Odin, Galactus fed during the opening chapter of Matt Factions run before his battle with Odin. He encountered him in a telepathic battle and failed to overpower him in mental combat. He was also knocked out from the head butt that he received from Odin, whom sent his life force into the Destroyer --causing him to enter the Odinsleep-- to continue battling Galactus.
At this degree of power, Galactus is powerful enough to fight against the likes of Skyfathers, strike with the power of exploding stars and he can destroy galaxies and engage in battles that will threaten to destroy the Universe: he has also defeated even Tyrant. This is probably the strength of Galactus that we normally see.
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Odin vs Thanos
Normally, when Odin fights against an opponent whose powerful enough to weaken him, doing so will result in him entering the Odinsleep, this never occurred during his fight with Thanos and the Silver Surfer. Odin could have easily summoned all of the life-force from Asgard and taken the battle to a degree beyond what Thanos could tolerate, which is why he was trying to force the titan to surrender.
At this degree of power, Odin can destroy Galaxies, shake the fabric of the Multiverse, create pocket dimensions, freeze time, summon the Destroyer and use the Odinsword. This places him well beyond the normal ranks of what Skyfathers are capable of.
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Well Fed Galactus vs Celestials
When Galactus encountered the Celestials he was cranked up on four planets, which is four times as many as he normally eats. At this degree of power he was capable of destroying a Celestial on one occasion and defeated two during another occasion. His power output is impressive but his durability seems to be rather lacking. He was defeated from the combined forces of Three Celestials. Furthermore, it was stated that Galactus would have lost if he engaged the Three Celestials in combat.
Surprisingly, it is also stated that the Celestials constitute the next level of power in the Marvel Universe, so most of them, are presumably, more powerful than Galactus.
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Odin vs Celestials
When Odin encountered the Celestials he wore the Destroyer Armor, wielded the Odin-Sword and used the full power of the Odinforce by channeling the Armor with all the souls of Asgard and a portion of power from the other Skyfathers. He ended up losing this battle but not without achieving some impressive feats. Odin was bombarded with the combat attack of a single Celestial, two Celestials and even three Celestials on different occasions, but they were unable to defeat him in combat. It took the combined forces of five Celestials to destroy the Armor.Normally, one would conclude that Odin isn't capable of piercing Celestial Armor, but remember, Thor has managed to do so so Odin would be capable of doing so as well, it is simply an inconsistency. The intended purpose of this encounter was to introduce the Celestials, as stated above, as the next degree of power, higher than the likes of Odin and Galactus.
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Conclusion:
Thor and Thanos seem to think that Galactus and Odin are roughly the same power. This of course, depends on their weapons and how fed Galactus is, but even at their highest degree of power, they are presumably, fairly close. Galactus may carry an advantage in terms of overall energy projection, but Odin would carry the advantage in durability and because fighting to his full potential forces Galan to become hungry, I really don't think Galan would have the damage output to get through the Armor if Odin was using it to its best abilities. These two are more-or-less equals.
@fiendishmind: I see Mephisto being involved in a battle which threatens the universe the same way I would view a battle between Spiderman and Vulture threatening to bust planet earth. I see that statement by Surfer as pure hyperbole or else pis.
I could understand the opinion that it was PIS but the context makes it clear it wasn't hyperbole.
@fiendishmind: It can be seen as hyperbole for the simple fact that a. Surfer was on the verge of death I believe and simply wanted them to stop fighting and b. Characters/writers/narrators throw out the idea of the universe being in danger all the time in comics, often for lack of better word imo. Simply because we have galaxy and then after that the next biggest thing is universe, even though there are like millions of galaxies or however many within the universe. Surfer saying something doesn't make it true despite him being fairly honest and having a degree of cosmic awareness. Context which I have already mentioned does have to be taken into account. Galactus stopping the fight doesn't necessarily make his statement true either.
@odingalactusy: You can't call them equals if one has Armor enchanted with the powers of multiple skyfathers and additional weapons.
That's like saying Batman is equal to Superman but Batman is pumped full of Bane's Venom and has the Hell Bat armor.
If Odin gets the armor and weapons, does Galactus get to absorb the life force of Tyrant and all his heralds? Galactus did give them their powers.
A fully rested Odin with no armor, no weapons...JUST ODIN..... is no match for a moderately fed Galactus.
The evidence above debunks the highlighted contention. Furthermore, Odin has shown that he would enchant the armor if need be, Galactus has never demonstrated this with Tyrant or his heralds, which wouldn't really matter since their power is too miniscule to matter in a battle of this degree.
Furthermore, Thor and Thanos both think that Odin, with no Armor or weapons, JUST ODIN, is comparable to Galactus and equal in terms of importance and power within the Marvel hierarchy. It's interesting to note that Thor placed Odin, with all his added gear against the Celestials, above Galactus. I'd reckon that a heavily geared Odin would make quick work of Galactus, regardless of how fed he was.
@fiendishmind: It can be seen as hyperbole for the simple fact that a. Surfer was on the verge of death I believe and simply wanted them to stop fighting and b. Characters/writers/narrators throw out the idea of the universe being in danger all the time in comics, often for lack of better word imo. Simply because we have galaxy and then after that the next biggest thing is universe, even though there are like millions of galaxies or however many within the universe. Surfer saying something doesn't make it true despite him being fairly honest and having a degree of cosmic awareness. Context which I have already mentioned does have to be taken into account. Galactus stopping the fight doesn't necessarily make his statement true either.
That position makes no sense, it requires extensive contrivances, with nothing on panel to suggest those said contrivances were being used.
Here"s the most relevant scans from The Mighty Thor Annual.
@fiendishmind: It can be seen as hyperbole for the simple fact that a. Surfer was on the verge of death I believe and simply wanted them to stop fighting and b. Characters/writers/narrators throw out the idea of the universe being in danger all the time in comics, often for lack of better word imo. Simply because we have galaxy and then after that the next biggest thing is universe, even though there are like millions of galaxies or however many within the universe. Surfer saying something doesn't make it true despite him being fairly honest and having a degree of cosmic awareness. Context which I have already mentioned does have to be taken into account. Galactus stopping the fight doesn't necessarily make his statement true either.
That position makes no sense, it requires extensive contrivances, with nothing on panel to suggest those said contrivances where being used.
Here"s the most relevant scans from The Mighty Thor Annual.
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There does seem to be some context there beyond simply Scrier and Galactus destroying the universe by virtue of their battling each other.
@fiendishmind: It can be seen as hyperbole for the simple fact that a. Surfer was on the verge of death I believe and simply wanted them to stop fighting and b. Characters/writers/narrators throw out the idea of the universe being in danger all the time in comics, often for lack of better word imo. Simply because we have galaxy and then after that the next biggest thing is universe, even though there are like millions of galaxies or however many within the universe. Surfer saying something doesn't make it true despite him being fairly honest and having a degree of cosmic awareness. Context which I have already mentioned does have to be taken into account. Galactus stopping the fight doesn't necessarily make his statement true either.
That position makes no sense, it requires extensive contrivances, with nothing on panel to suggest those said contrivances where being used.
Here"s the most relevant scans from The Mighty Thor Annual.
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There does seem to be some context there beyond simply Scrier and Galactus destroying the universe by virtue of their battling each other.
It was Scrier and The Other, Galactus was fighting them both at the same time.
You can read it yourself, there's no missing context. The same "cosmic conflagration" is mentioned during the Mephisto battle and during Annihilation when the Galactus bomb was described.
@odingalactusy: In his battle with Galactus vs Tyrant they destroyed galaxies so Tyrant is not miniscule next to Odin.
Firstly, Thanos made a statement. Feats >>>>statements. And it wasn't based solely on power so that ranking does little to prove who is more powerful.
When Thanos fought Galactus, Thanos used shields to protect himself. Even then the battle only lasted one/two pages. Thanos was on his knees unable to fight after one page. Begging Galactus to stop.
Meanwhile, without shields, Thanos was walking through Odins blast . After MULTIPLE pages of fighting Thanos was on his feet and ready to fight.
With full gear, prep and weapons, Odin didn't kill one Celestial.
With his bare hands, Galactus killed Celestials.
The Destroyer armor has never proven that it can defeat someone of Galactus level.
A Galactus that no longer hungers is LB Galactus. Odin even with amps and weapons is no where near that.
@odingalactusy: In his battle with Galactus vs Tyrant they destroyed galaxies so Tyrant is not miniscule next to Odin.
Firstly, Thanos made a statement. Feats >>>>statements. And it wasn't based solely on power so that ranking does little to prove who is more powerful.
When Thanos fought Galactus, Thanos used shields to protect himself. Even then the battle only lasted one/two pages. Thanos was on his knees unable to fight after one page. Begging Galactus to stop.
Meanwhile, without shields, Thanos was walking through Odins blast . After MULTIPLE pages of fighting Thanos was on his feet and ready to fight.
With full gear, prep and weapons, Odin didn't kill one Celestial.
With his bare hands, Galactus killed Celestials.
The Destroyer armor has never proven that it can defeat someone of Galactus level.
A Galactus that no longer hungers is LB Galactus. Odin even with amps and weapons is no where near that.
Galactus has never absorbed Tyrant's energy so it's pure conjecture on your end to suggest that he would do so.
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet made the statement so it's illogical to determine that his opinion was inaccurate, it is further backed by a statement from Thor, clarifying the importance of the comparison being made.
Galactus went from being fed to hungry against Thanos. It exerted most of his energy, which shows that a Fed Galan is hugely over rated.
Odin wrecks Thanos all over again as Odin was able to put Thanos down before without coming close to unleashing the Full Odin Force on Thanos...
Against Thanos, Odin did not:
1) Amp up off of the Realm of Asgard (which Odin did against Seth in Thor 400)...
2) Amp up off of the souls of the entire Asgardian Race (which Odin demonstrated he could do during Thor 300)...
3) Use his most powerful weapon against Thanos (Gungnir is NOT Odins most powerful weapon; the Spectre of Power is as is revealed during The Surtur Saga)...
4) Call on the Asgardian Destroyer...
Add it all up and Odin could have took things to a level that was far beyond what Thanos could tolerate...
And just to head off the ignorant at the pass, the power within Asgard itself and the spiritual power of the Asgardian Race are all aspects of the Full Odin Force; its more than just the power thats within his body at any given moment...
Anyway, here in a forum fight, Odin will fight to his full potential against Thanos and not hold back as he did in Warlock and the Infinity Watch #25...
Unlike Galactus, who was hungry because he expelled most of his power, Odin wouldn't enter the Odinsleep if he decided to go full throttle against Thanos.
Galactus was effortlessly destroyed from the forces of three Celestials.
Odin was destroyed from five.
Galactus would have lost against three Celestials even if they didn't merge.
Odin managed to somewhat fight against nine Celestials.
Add it all up and Galactus is behind Odin on nearly every level.
However I don't think Galactus has the power out-put to get through the Destroyer Armor. It took five Celestials to defeat it whereas it only took three to defeat Galan.
@odingalactusy: Is that what you think happened?? That's called hubris. I'll even define it for you.
Hubris: excessive pride or self-confidence often without cause.
But I'll explain why I didn't reply since your assumption was wrong.
In post 480 you put fully geared Odin at a 32. But put a fed Galactus at 40. I agree with that. Therefore there was nothing else to discuss.
Speculation: the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.
You established your power rankings regardless of how much your arguments were destroyed. Being objectively correct isn't synonymous with excessive pride. I'm simply correcting you where you are wrong.
@spambot: How would you rank the Destroyer that fought the Celestials?
I think its kind of hard to accurately rate that depiction of him. I mean he was slicing limbs off of Celestials like nothing but imo Odin Destroyer can't use a lot of the hax he would normally use with the OF. So maybe around a 10.
Galactus>>>>>Odin. Galactus as the lifebringer beat Lord Order and Master Chaos. That feat is probably better than all of Odin's feat when he is fully preped.
@makerofmatches: 1.a Marvel Writer said that Odin is more powerfull than Galactus. 2.Magic Users are always more powerfull than Aliens . Full powered Scarlet Witch is more powerfull than Galactus, Classic Dr Strange is more powerfull than Galactus, Dormammu is more powerfull.
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