Flash Vs Superman

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BigDumbSmartGuy

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@bigdumbsmartguy: actually he does plus clark can handle any wally can throw at him but wally cant take a single punch from clark so clark 7/10

... No, he doesn't. If something is in his speed force aura, he can manipulate it. There are panels of him stopping bullets by just moving his hands in front of them. Here are scans of him doing the opposite and giving speed to some I-Beams.

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Flash can take Superman's speed away from him without touching him. He can also permanently take away his speed, as in, leave him a statue for eternity with quote, "eyes that take a hundred years to blink". He did this to either Zoom or Reverse Flash, I forget, so it's not as if he did it to some mook.

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seastone98

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superman's speed >>>>>bullets and trucks why do you think jay had to grab him to still his speed

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BigDumbSmartGuy

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superman's speed >>>>>bullets and trucks why do you think jay had to grab him to still his speed

You don't think Reverse-Flash can go faster than Superman? Flash stole all of his speed and left him a statue.

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seastone98

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of course RF is faster than clark but flash still had to grab him also I think he did it to inertia

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deactivated-5d2cf537b4a1c

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Wally sure doesn't know a thing about basic physics, if he has to frame acceleration as "giving speed." Speed steal is literally a transfer of KINETIC energy - if the Jay feat is treated as canon non-PIS evidence, then Superman should remember exactly what happened, and what what said. He knows about the speed steal and obviously has a better grip on science in normal reality than the whack Speed Force physics of Wally. If Superman doesn't generate kinetic energy and leaves it all as potential energy, there won't be anything for Flash to siphon from him. Plus, Flash could only use the Kryptonian's own momentum against him to actually move him, but wait, if he's a statue, he couldn't possibly have momentum! The IMPs are a whole nother story.

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BrockTheRock

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Superman wins a fight against The Flash.

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kbroskywalker

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why was this bumped? Wally obviously stomps

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deactivated-5da8e253e9df8

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Another never-ending battle.

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deactivated-5d2cf537b4a1c

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Superman bloodlust- Break the earth but this is too extreme but it would WORK

Wally bloodlust- attempt to IMP Superman multiple times - doesn't work because first one sends Superman into orbit as fast the Flash would be punching (I.e. In accordance with the rest of his body)

Superman normal- Fly and outlive Wally or replace the land environment with something impossible to run on/through.

Flash normal- punch Superman and urgently throw him into the Speed Force - probably temporary due to Kryptonian nigh-omnipotent PIS powers

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gingersoutham92

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I'm jumping in late here but isn't superman light speed and the Flash's way way past that?

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reaverlation

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I'm jumping in late here but isn't superman light speed and the Flash's way way past that?

Both are FTL. Wally is just ridiculously faster than Superman

And welcome

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gingersoutham92

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@reaverlation: I'm a fan of both but have to give it to wally. and I'm not sure what I'm welcome for?

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reaverlation

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gingersoutham92

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@reaverlation: Oh right and it's my new account forgot my old details and thank you anyway.

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DennyGaming

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they are about to clash when color kid rainbows them both to death

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Chizzy

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Flash is my favorite superhero

But to be sincere if it was barry allen he has a little chance of winning

But since it wally he don't stand a chance, even batman and green lantern couldn't stand a chance with superman, how on earth do u think wally would win,

There is nothing to talk about here, it 70%for superman vs 30%for wally

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Chizzy

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If u check it when the justice league went to another planent to fight th justice lords the flash(wally) was faceing superman(from the other earth) it was not the superman intention to kill the flash because they lost their flash.

Wally didn't stant a chance against him.

So it superman we all know that

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Exdemon

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#4368  Edited By Exdemon

A quick question for team flash.

How many times did the flash lead with speed steal? If going of of the flashes personality did he fight first or steal first? That makes a big difference. All the scans I have seen show a beat down flash stealing speed not someone who leads with it. In my opinion superman will win. Even with imp that'd would hurt him sure I doubt that it would kill him.

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deactivated-60cedd66cf0a6

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kbroskywalker

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kbroskywalker

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@exdemon: I'd love to know why you think superman is going to beat someone who survived half of himself being outside of reality, blasts from the anti monitor, and a universe busting antimatter blast while he was depowered.

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worldFlash

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#4372  Edited By worldFlash

The flash wins 7 out of 10 fights. He can Atominze Superman, go back in time if he misplays, crush his heart, and many other things. Superman if he catches him can kill him, but actually needs to catch him, which I've only seen when the Flash was moving slowly. If they were to start off both expecting a fight, and on equal terms Flash has a higher probability of winning; really Superman's 3 victories are scenarios where the Flash seriously messes up. (edited because mods on this site are cry babies)

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Exdemon

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#4373  Edited By Exdemon

@kbroskywalker: superman has survived supernovae. Superman also has above super genius level intellect. He also has an eidedic memory which means he remembers everything. If superman knew he was going into the fight he would be able to formulate strategies to win before they even met up. And he would know to not let the flash touch him. Even though the flash is faster than superman, superman is almost as fast so the flash grabbing supe before he could react is not likely. Superman has so many ways to win and he is smart enough to pull them off. The flash has one way and even that would probably weaken and not kill superman but one hit just one would destroy the flash. And all superman would have to do is fly strait into space until late he comes up with a strategy to win.

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Captaimshazam

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Bump

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batwnkr513

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In the comic in which the Flash saves an entire city from a nuclear blast, he was traveling trillions of times faster than the speed of light. Even if they were fighting, the Flash could simply run away, run back, and before Superman even realized he was there, vibrate his hand through Supes' head, heart, etc. or IMP him. OR he could just steal his motion and leave him stranded somewhere for eternity (or until Flash dies).

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WF_Mxyzptlk

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#4376  Edited By WF_Mxyzptlk

@batwnkr513 said:

In the comic in which the Flash saves an entire city from a nuclear blast, he was traveling trillions of times faster than the speed of light. Even if they were fighting, the Flash could simply run away, run back, and before Superman even realized he was there, vibrate his hand through Supes' head, heart, etc. or IMP him. OR he could just steal his motion and leave him stranded somewhere for eternity (or until Flash dies).

Because he does all of these things in-character, right?

Not to mention that the big vibe-through-head scan example is from The Nail, which is elseworlds.

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HighAccuser

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Wally

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kbroskywalker

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@exdemon: supernova<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<antimonitor's antimatter wave, or half of yourself not being in reality

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Ayauti

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The Flash is so powerful he caused DC to reboot.. Flashpoint.. New 52..

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ITouchedTheBoat

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unless Superman gets his speed stolen there's literally no way he's losing this battle.

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Thor-Parker

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I´d back Flash

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midnightdragon18

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lock please

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DarkPrimeSovereign

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88 pages and Wally still stomps.

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batwnkr513

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#4384  Edited By batwnkr513

@wf_mxyzptlk: I don't think it matters when it happened, the vibration thing is possible in whichever universe you want to talk about, that's one of his inherent abilities. And also, Flash is faster than Superman regardless, so it's unlikely he could lay a hand on him anyway.

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risingtide

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Wally West.

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WF_Mxyzptlk

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#4386  Edited By WF_Mxyzptlk

@wf_mxyzptlk: I don't think it matters when it happened, the vibration thing is possible in whichever universe you want to talk about, that's one of his inherent abilities. And also, Flash is faster than Superman regardless, so it's unlikely he could lay a hand on him anyway.

Whether or not its theoretically possible has absolutely no bearing on what an in-character Flash will do.

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Carrickclash03

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#4387  Edited By Carrickclash03
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MarvelBro

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Superman. He outclasses him in any way besides speed. Flash has just a slight edge in speed.

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DarkPrimeSovereign

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@carrickclash03: Your either trying to troll me and make me mad (not working) or you have not a single idea about Wally's powers.

@marvelbro: Flash is massively much faster than Clark. Faster in reflexes. Faster in thought. And can do similar striking feats as Clark.

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MarvelBro

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DarkPrimeSovereign

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@marvelbro: IMP and his multiple infinite punches. Like more than a thousand hits under a nanosecond punches.

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MarvelBro

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@darkprimesovereign: And? Superman has tanked worse than that. There is a reason why he is called the Man of Steel.

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MarvelBro

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ITouchedTheBoat

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@darkprimesovereign: Wally and Martian Manhunter fought each other while both were bloodlusted(ish) (fact of the matter in that fight was that both wanted to take each other out asap) and Flash did not use his speed to his advantage as you are proposing he would. Plus are there any scans where he uses 'Like a thousand' IMP under a nanosecond? Because I found scans of Superman being able to catch Wally's hits after literally deciding to put a stop to him, and another where Superman's punches are too fast for Flash (dont remember if it was Wally) to do anything about it.

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comic_fan123

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Flash

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DarkPrimeSovereign

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@itouchedtheboat: @marvelbro:

1. Speed steal. Wally embezzles Clark's speed to his momentum and inertia. Clark's speed is reduced to a small snail. Clark's reflexes and versatility is rendered useless. Flash continues to do punch him senseless. Flash has stated it before, as Barry, that he could steal all his active kinetic energy. But if he did, Clark would physically stop moving but his momentum wouldn't. As the reference "I could steal all of Superman's kinetic energy and stop him cold, but it'd be like throwing him out of a car -- one moving at over two thousand miles a second. That combined with Superman's strength, he'd create a path of total destruction from here to Moscow." Superman would be a frozen statue rolling over anything and hitting/breaking everything in his path. Forget this. This means Barry/Warry can speed steal him anytime/anyday.

Logic from physics, the faster you hit, the more mass/oncoming damage you put into your punch. Via speed steal, Clark's punches won't be strong as before. But Wally/Barry will. Barry has shown to do a casual knock on Clark which sent him crashing against a wall. His multiple blitz punches on big crowds sends them flying. Literally. And with his previous counter again, Barry jobs as usual and easily dodges a putting effort Clark into catching him.

Other than that, his mind processing speeds are far greater than Clark. He can process what's happening around him at the same time. Nearly has predicting the future. Wally would blitz Clark while Clark tries to understand why he's getting his ass kicked. Flash's mind operates at femtoseconds. According to wikipedia, in 1 femtosecond, a ray of light travels only 0.3 micrometre. Even Barry was able to master whatever Hal has done with the ring in mere seconds. With a faster mind, comes with infinite possibilities, comes with a winning solution.

And we also having his phasing abilities. He doesn't have to dodge his punches but phase through them as well. That's pretty much two ways to make Clark's punches go wide. Or Wally/Barry would incapacitate Clark by phasing his hand through his heart. Or rip his heart out. Instant gg win.

Flash's recovery speed is even much faster than Clark's. If Clark does manage to put a punch into Wally/Barry, either of them would come right up. In the showings below, Darkseid sent an attack to the JLA and Barry was the first one to "awake". Superman came up shortly after, but it shows who's mind is much faster. More durable.

These are simple feats. If you want the real more powerful feats of Wally, ask me again. But these are feats that prove why Wally stomps Clark. And some feats I mentioned Barry, but to point out that Wally can do whatever Barry can do, but with far greater skill/speed/and damage.

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ConnorDorian

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Superman wins

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Realzy

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Superman can (has) hit flash as seen in justice league war

plus even if speed steal then what

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ITouchedTheBoat

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@darkprimesovereign:

1. Speed steal. Wally embezzles Clark's speed to his momentum and inertia. Clark's speed is reduced to a small snail. Clark's reflexes and versatility is rendered useless. Flash continues to do punch him senseless. Flash has stated it before, as Barry, that he could steal all his active kinetic energy. But if he did, Clark would physically stop moving but his momentum wouldn't. As the reference "I could steal all of Superman's kinetic energy and stop him cold, but it'd be like throwing him out of a car -- one moving at over two thousand miles a second. That combined with Superman's strength, he'd create a path of total destruction from here to Moscow." Superman would be a frozen statue rolling over anything and hitting/breaking everything in his path. Forget this. This means Barry/Warry can speed steal him anytime/anyday.

my previous post stated that unless Barry steals his speed he loses, otherwise he isn't going to win. So we pretty much agree that if Barry speed steals (and isn't in front of the "wrecking Ball" that is Clark Kent) he wins. Let's read what else you got.

Logic from physics, the faster you hit, the more mass/oncoming damage you put into your punch. Via speed steal, Clark's punches won't be strong as before. But Wally/Barry will. Barry has shown to do a casual knock on Clark which sent him crashing against a wall. His multiple blitz punches on big crowds sends them flying. Literally. And with his previous counter again, Barry jobs as usual and easily dodges a putting effort Clark into catching him.

comics don't always obey the laws of real life physics, case and point; in the scan you showed of Flash blitzing all those special forces soldiers (herehere and here) those were humans correct me if I'm wrong, and even if Flash's hits would be low-ball super-sonic speeds those people would completely be demolished. And wait, are we comparing new52 characters? or Pre-52? btw you conveniently left out the scan where Superman literally flicked the Flash three blocks away...to set up a flick (as an attack) would take longer to do so as opposed to a punch. Imagine if Superman punched the Flash in that moment? Flash would be dead, there's no denying that. Also both characters were holding back considerably, you can tell that by when Flash was able to hold Superman's arm before he threw the punch. If Superman was going even half of his super strength, holding back that punch would be too much resistance on Flash's shoulder joint and his arm would rip right off (to put into persecutive imagine a person in a moving car and they extend their arm out the window to grab a tree branch. But the tree doesnt move, instead puts a resistance force that proves too much for the person's muscles and their arms gives out.) Neither Character was going in any way their full extent in that showdown. Superman just increased his speed to match whatever speed flash was moving in at that instance, even though both were capable of much more.

Other than that, his mind processing speeds are far greater than Clark. He can process what's happening around him at the same time. Nearly has predicting the future. Wally would blitz Clark while Clark tries to understand why he's getting his ass kicked. Flash's mind operates at femtoseconds. According to wikipedia, in 1 femtosecond, a ray of light travels only 0.3 micrometre. Even Barry was able to master whatever Hal has done with the ring in mere seconds. With a faster mind, comes with infinite possibilities, comes with a winning solution.

you're showing some instances where Flash showed this ability, and sure theres no doubt in my mind that he's capable of thinking this fast, he still doesn't do it all the time in every fight. By that logic; Superman's flick was capable of moving faster that that speed and basically only helps my argument. Flash gets tagged by people a lot slower than femtosecond action time.

And we also having his phasing abilities. He doesn't have to dodge his punches but phase through them as well. That's pretty much two ways to make Clark's punches go wide. Or Wally/Barry would incapacitate Clark by phasing his hand through his heart. Or rip his heart out. Instant gg win.

okay, legit. Are we comparing new52, or pre52? cuz i prepared for pre52 lol. And phasing? you mean like the time flash phased through Supergirl tackling him? or how about the time she kicked him in the face? or how about the time he was subdued by cheetah(pre52 i know but still, he has attosecond reaction time). phasing isn't his go-to thing as you're making it out to be like. and phasing out his heart? has any flash ever been able to do that to a kryptonian? i'm asking because I'm seriously curious.

Flash's recovery speed is even much faster than Clark's. If Clark does manage to put a punch into Wally/Barry, either of them would come right up. In the showings below, Darkseid sent an attack to the JLA and Barry was the first one to "awake". Superman came up shortly after, but it shows who's mind is much faster. More durable.

LOL more durable?are you honestly trying to argue Flash is more durable than Superman? Are you going to argue next that Flash is superior to everyone because he managed to pierce Darkseid's eye with a crowbar? That entire fight was basically PIS, how could Batman survive an attack that knocked every other league unconscious? There are too any questions from that fight to be taken seriously. Sorry, bro but you using this feat kind of lowered my seriousness on this, you're going to have to come with better stuff than that.

These are simple feats. If you want the real more powerful feats of Wally, ask me again. But these are feats that prove why Wally stomps Clark. And some feats I mentioned Barry, but to point out that Wally can do whatever Barry can do, but with far greater skill/speed/and damage.

you make a very good case on your side, but idk which version of Superman we're using so i cant make a proper rebuttal until that's established. If it's Pre52 i can actually make proper arguments, otherwise if its new52 i cant really make anything worth replying to. So let's just establish that first.

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Buckwheat

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I find that the power that it's been attributed to the Flash on this debate contradicts many of his usual showings. I mean a person so powerful would annihilate any villain before the battle even started. Why doesn’t he Speed Steal Darkseid, or throw a million IMPs at Mogul’s face? Why doesn’t he take Doomsday to the end of time? Why do they even bother to fight regular villains when Flash could end it all before it began?

I think that writers are just showing absolute ignorance by throwing around stuff like: “flash is a thousand times faster than light”. Are they even aware of what that means? I’m not going to go into the physical impossibilities of that, for Light IS the fastest thing in existence, and nothing faster can exist. But accepting the fact that he is that fast thanks to the Speed Force. Think of this: A guy faster than light would scape time, which means, the rest of the world would be standing still from his perspective.

Can you really imagine been hit by something that’s standing completely still?

Just take a look at your side. Do you see that bottle of beer sitting on your table next to your computer? It’s like, howmuch, a few inches from you? Do you honestly think it will EVER hit you? Well, a bullet would be like that to the Flash. A perfect marksman with a gun would be like a solid statue to the Flash.

I mean, a guy that can react on Femtoseconds, would NEVER be caught off-guard. Can any of you conceive what NEVER implies? Never is like, all eternity.

And then I go and see that he ordinarily struggles against other villains. He fights, punches people, and coexists in battle with people that would be like stones-on-the-ground to him, on a daily basis…

Facts that can only exist under one of the TWO following alternatives:

Alternative A.) The Flash is not as fast as they make him to be, and those showings where he carries a whole city to safety are just embellished fairytales to make the character look cool. Showings that are not meant to be taken seriously. Or in other words PIS. He really is not that fast.

In which case Superman would beat the Flash.

Alternative B.) The Flash is as fast as they say he is, but he also is a complete moron with no ability whatsoever for battle. A useless idiot that would rather run around slowly than help his fellow Leaguers when they face life-and-death situations.

In which case Superman would beat the Flash.

And for those of you that say: “It’s for the sake of the story. No one wants to read a comic that ends on the first panel.”

I answer: That is not a good enough excuse. If I make Spiderman able to climb walls, I will not make him not climb on walls because, well… It would be to easy for him to get to the roof.

We, as audience, can suspend our disbelieve, as long as it follows a logic. Per example:

I can believe a extraterrestrial from another planet, that physically resembles a man, can fly and have extraordinary powers. Even though impossible, it stands to a logic.

But I cannot believe that that Aunt May one day out of the blue starts flying and lifting 1000 tons, unless I am given a really good explanation.

Which means: Suspension of disbelieve works within certain boundaries. We, as audiences, will believe the impossible if it follows logic.

It does not have to be possible, but it must be coherently thought and exposed.

The Flash been faster than light and coexisting in battle with people that think and react at superhuman speeds is impossible and unbelievable, even for comic fiction.

So, what will it be? Is he not that fast? Or is he really such an idiot that he gets surprised by a “vibrating bullet” that travels and vibrates so many times slower than the speed of light that looks to the Flash like a static object hung on mid air?