Fernus (DC) vs. The Silver Surfer (Marvel)

I'm gonna say SS.

Silver surfer hold his own against Thanos TP so I don't know if it would work

. I think for Fernus to be effective against the Surfer, he would have to be as fast. I have to assume because Fernus is from Martian Manhunter (Fernus was determined by the JLA to be his own separate, unique genetic being apart from Martian Manhunter), Silver Surfer should take this. Speed coupled with massive energy strikes should do the trick.

. As well, on the high end, Surfer has a nice resistance to TP feat in Infinity Crusade against Moondragon, augmented by the mind gem. Previously, she had taken out Charles Xavier with the same telepathic assault.

But he does have his limits as seen against Asmodel...not that that is a bad thing (from JLA Classified 54):

So uh...

...what can Fernus actually do?

I have no real knowledge about Fernus. What can he do to resist matter manipulation down to the subatomic level?

What can he do against a black hole

Is there proof he can affect one on Surfer's level?

Are those scans before or after Surfer stated he was immune in the Astral Plane?

@citizenbane: why even make a long laundry list of reasons proving him wrong when all he is going to due is forget everything forget everything you wrote (assuming he even read it) and go on to another thread and repeat what he just type

Mal, we've been over this. There is literally nothing you can present to suggest that Runner is even remotely as fast as Wally West. Given that he is barely even a lightspeeder judging from his humiliation at Makkari's hands, there is really nothing to suggest that he's even as fast as Kid Flash. And if by "Surfer was able to go toe to toe with the Runner", you mean "Surfer got the crap kicked out of him by Runner", we are in complete agreement. Reconciling your need to establish Surfer as Flash's equal in speed with the evidence of Runner exploiting Surfer's non-existent combat speed and deciding that the only logical conclusion is that Runner must be as fast as Flash, lack of any actual evidence be damned? Typical, really.

I'm not "Mal", as you believe. My old man an me are not the same person. Not sure what your fascination is with him, but I will pay the compliment forward (although, he didn't have very nice things to say about you...I won't repeat the naughty words). I, however do remember you from some time ago. He also said he thought you inquired of him recently on another comic web site...sort of pretending to be a newbie or some such? Not cool.

Anyway, you are as misinformed about the Silver Surfer now as you were when I talked to you back then.

Now, where were we?

Oh yeah, the Runner. You..that's right you have already said you thought Wally and the Runner are on par speed wise. Did you forget that? Here, let me help you out. Below is the link to yours and killemall's comments about the Runner from some time ago. Someone bumped it recently and I noticed your guys comments. It seems the consensus of at least some, you and killemall included, are that the Runner is not only at least equal to Wally in speed, but that he would paste Wally. It appears that you and killemall and others on the Vine have already given your blessing to the Runner over Wally West. Are you changing your mind now? Here's the link:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/flash-vs-runner-625523/

And here are the close-ups so you don't get any strange notions about editing your posts, I'll make'em nice and big so you can see:

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Personally, I think the Runner is faster than either Wally or the Surfer. Nevertheless, there are scans on the link above that show the Runner's fight with the Surfer. What I notice about the scans is that the Surfer did not lose because The Runner was faster...he lost because he was physically overpowered as the scans clearly indicate.

The fact that Surfer never uses his speed in 99% of his fights might throw a spanner in those particular works.

I agree with this point inasmuch as the Surfer doesn't do crazy stuff like twirl his arms a million miles an hour creating vortex's to slow a train or some such, but let's not exaggerate okay Bane? 99%? Surfer doesn't use his speed often in combat because he is supremely confident of his ability to tank shots from even characters like the Hulk and has done so on numerous occasions. Also, writer's usually show him blasting someone rather than hitting the opponent. Morpheus did an incredible job on a Silver Surfer thread about that very subject.

Writer's don't think of the Silver Surfer in the same terms they do The Flash, because the Flash's main power set is speed. That same speed is only one of the Surfer's power sets. Nevertheless, there are numerous obvious indicators that he is capable of moving at the same speeds, and just because writer's don't portray him that way often doesn't mean we should ignore the clear evidence that is presented. To ignore all the feats and scans already presented on this very web site is just bias. Period. But stuff like the gauntlet grab in Infinity Gauntlet is an obvious one. Him searching the earth in a few seconds is another obvious indicator...very reminiscent of Wally's searching the crowd of faces for only two that were smiling in a pico second. But that feat really isn't much compared to this reaction feat:

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In Flash 145, Wally, as he indicates above, grabs the treadmill from another time line and brings it back to the current one. If he wanted to, he could've brought it back a few moments earlier, right? Imagine the combat implications...although Wally didn't blitz through time and strike anyone, he could've? Right? I realize above is not a combat feat....but it is an indicator of what the character is capable of. Comic feats don't always explicitly spell everything out, sometimes its a matter of paying attention to what the feat indicates the character can do. Same for the Surfer, who as already mentioned moves from one point in time to the next, just like Wally does. I already mentioned the Durok feat.

Again, we've been over this. Aside from your made-up theory that time travel is the fastest reaction speed possible

You keep saying "we". Get it right. We are different. But whatever thrills you.

I don't agree with everything my old man says, but he's right on that point. From what I know of the Surfer and Wally, both can move from one point in time to the next pretty easily. In turn, when either of these characters are "travelling" time, they are literally moving from what is to each of them, one frozen time line to the next. In order to move from said frozen time line to the next, you have to have a thought then a subsequent reaction. Not only that, but anyone within those timelines is well, frozen compared to them, while they are clearly moving around. Not sure what's so hard to understand here. In terms of acceleration to said time travel speed? For the Surfer, it's instantaneous acceleration. Above, in Flash 145, Wally demonstrates the same.

----even though time travel is an instant BFR, as we have already gone over ---- Surfer has never done anything to suggest his reactions in combat are any faster than someone like Superman's. And given that Clark has something Surfer lacks ----- specifically, countless examples of him actually using his speed in combat ----- putting the Surfer on Superman's level of combat speed might be a little generous.

My dad must've made a real impression on you...already gone over?

Again, see above. Gauntlet grab, searching five billion people on earth in only a moment. C'mon, your bias is ridiculous. Again, we have to go by what the feats indicate a character is reasonably capable of. Are you saying Superman can move from one point in time to the next? So...you're putting current Superman on par with Wally West in speed who we know can move from point in time to point in time? Okay. That's rich. Silver Age Superman, sure. But not Clark as we know him now...this is a silly statement.

Moondragon's access to the full power of the Mind Gem was restricted by Adam Warlock from the minute she first received it. For that matter Moondragon with the Mind Gem couldn't do anything to Thor either, while Xavier one-shotted Thor with his telepathy. Thanos also laughed off her "infinite telepathic powers". I also don't know why you'd bring up Infinity Crusade in the context of Surfer's TP resistance when he was mind-controlled in that very same story by the Goddess, but ok.....

Which is PIS when we consider that a retard like Nebula, who doesn't have near the technical prowess of Thanos, was equally omnipotent when she possessed the infinity gauntlet. But you go on believing that sunshine. And Thanos is, well....Thanos. What's not to get there?

Besides, it's not like Surfer doesn't have limits when it comes to psychic attacks. Just ask Psycho-Man.

Really? Jeph Loeb. Er, okay. Sure man. Whatever you say. But at the same time, are you saying Psycho man is not powerful?

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Or the Others.

Do you even know who the other are? These guys took out Galactus:

Or Supernalia, in Avengers Annual #11, scans be lacking for that one.

No worries.

Are literally any of the people above even remotely on J'onn's level? No, not really.

So, you're saying The Other, an entity that took out Galactus and the Surfer are no where near J'onn? Okay, have it your way.

I can guarantee you that if we start comparing and contrasting high-end telepathy feats for the two, they will not be in the same league. They won't even be playing the same game. I can show you scans of Martian Manhunter blocking telepathic attacks and manipulating the minds of guys who casually decimate universes. Norrin trying to fend off or take on Fernus in psychic warfare is a losing proposition. And psychic warfare is the first thing Fernus employs. Surfer would have a better chance if his morals were off and he was in anything-goes mode.

Well...we really don't need to, because the Surfer is much faster than J'onn CB. Telepathy is really a moot point when you fight a guy who has demonstrated instantaneous acceleration. When you pony up some feats of J'onn moving from one point in time to the next...or while time is otherwise frozen, feel free to come talk to me.

@captnmcdeadpool:

I dunno. Unless specified otherwise we assume in character.

And in character Silver Surfer is a pretty high level jobber.