Fantastic four vs X Men

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santosthe1st

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#1  Edited By santosthe1st

FF Team: Mr. Fantastic, Human Torch, Thing, and Invisible Woman, and She Hulk

VS X Men Team: Cyclops, Ice Man, Beast, Jean Grey(no Phoenix) , and Archangle

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Edgeworth_11

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#2  Edited By Edgeworth_11
Untapped Potential - Wolverine and the X-Men #2
Untapped Potential - Wolverine and the X-Men #2
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the_stegman

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#3  Edited By the_stegman  Moderator

the x men

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mgrman5

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#4  Edited By mgrman5

Jean and Iceman for the win. Jean uses her TP and TK to hold everyone except Invisible Woman in a hold, and Iceman just freezes their insides to sub-zero. Then they all go after Invisible Woman and win.

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Fluke-buddha

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#5  Edited By Fluke-buddha

It pretty much comes down to the Storm siblings versus Jean Grey and Iceman, and the Storm siblings don't have a very good shot at all. I'd say X-men 8/10

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god_spawn

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#6  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

X-men.

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Edgeworth_11

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#7  Edited By Edgeworth_11

Iceman already neutralized Human Torch's powers and that was a long time ago. He is pretty much ineffective vs Iceman.

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TrueIlluminatus

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#8  Edited By TrueIlluminatus
@The Stegman said:
the x men
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nefarious

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#9  Edited By nefarious

The Men X.

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Donovan Montgomery

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Going against the grain and giving the Fantastic Five the win here.  Very tough battle.

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venomoushatred1001

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Jean solos. Iceman solos.

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THUNDERBOLT30

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#12  Edited By THUNDERBOLT30

I think the X-Men will take a majority due to Jean and Iceman.

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emperorznb

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#13  Edited By emperorznb

X-men can do a lot of things to win...

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OptimusPalm

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#14  Edited By OptimusPalm

This is the Fantastic Four, they nearly always come out on top when they seem like they should get beat (i guess you could say that about the xmen too but FF surely have the better teamwork compared to the xmen used in this fight). And how exactly are the Xmen men taking Sue out? At first look i agree with most here that the xmen should win, but i cant see them winning everytime. i really cant decide....so maybe Xmen take it 6/10

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BrianBusterBear888823

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Fantastic Four

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SirNickTheEpic

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the four easily, johnny solos if anything, he can boil the blood and evaporate all the moisture in the air and in the body of his foe, iceman needs moisture with out that hes done for, johnny is faster than all the other xmen so before they could do anything they have died from dehydration

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THUNDERBOLT30

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Johnny flies faster than all of the X-Men present but what reaction time feats does he have that proves he can take out all of these X-Men, especially psi-attacks from Jean at the speed of thought, before they could do anything?

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Thewhitecrownofphoenix_stormforever

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If only storm was involved then she could at least take human torch out of the equation by doing this i believe

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/0/4762/1082305-levelingaskyscraper.jpg

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chiq

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X-men. Jean can take out torch via TP. After that no one on the ff side can take out Bobby. I think Bobby is more powerful then Johnny anyway

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SirNickTheEpic

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@thunderbolt30:

all the xmen require energy if that gets drained they are done for also johnnys not alone, jean would get taken out by sue if she tried anything oh johnny, also if she go inside johnnys head she would pass out same as one of the xmen when fighting daredevil due both of them having extreme concentration on their power set jean cant get in johnnys head with out being damage by his focus on his power

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Bronze_Surfer

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#21  Edited By Bronze_Surfer

@sirnicktheepic: Did you just compare the psychic power of Psylock to Jean Grey? Dude she can make them all go to sleep. Aside from her own kids and Apocolypse (and probaly thanos) no one beats Jean in TP PIS. Cyclopses energy comes from another universe aparnetly so they can't drain him of his vision powers, Ice man can't be destroyed, Beast is fodder, I don't remember what Archangels wings are made off But I think they are some form of adamantium. Archangles wings can potentialy take out she hulk and Jean combo with Ice man beats the rest.

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marvelfan123

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#22  Edited By marvelfan123

X-men wins against the Fantastic 4

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Rouflex

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#23  Edited By Rouflex

X men

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THUNDERBOLT30

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#24  Edited By THUNDERBOLT30

@sirnicktheepic: what energy draining power does Johnny have? And do you have scans of him doing this to a telepath who went into his mind?

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DrMantisToboggan

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Bobby or jean solo, sue is the only threat. Now maybe if reed has prep things are different. Bobby is basically immortal and IIRC has been Johnnys superior for quite a long time.

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dondave

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X-Men

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captnmcdeadpool

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Reed is pretty quick in his pliable form, but I dont know that he is fast enough to deal with being flash frozen by Bobby, or getting TP punked by Jean.

Xmen should take this.

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jvvic9

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sirnicktheepic: tocha humana perderia facilmente, alias , ele n tem resistência a telepatia de jean,e jean n iria cair depois de entrar em usa mente, jean grey já enfrentou inimigos que derrotariam o quarteto inteiro como o juggernaut , gladiador e por ai, fora que homem de gelo atira no zero absoluto, que seria mais do que necessário para para tocha humana, e cyclops, iria ajudar muito, contendo coisa e mulher hulk , mas depois que jean derruba tocha humana vai o ajduar e os derrota também.

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pastepotpete1

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x-men can win without iceman present

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OOCMikey

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FF

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Capable

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I believe the X-men will take the majority, mostly due to Jean Grey and Iceman.

Jean Grey will battle and defeat Sue.

Beast is capable of killing Reed.

Iceman can beat Human Torch.

Archangel and Cyclops can stall Thing and She-Hulk until the others succeed in their fights and come to assist them.

X-men are the winners 7/10...

~Capable

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Void-X

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X-Men should win this because of Jean.

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skepta91

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#33  Edited By skepta91

I think the fantastic Four are being undestimated. If it were a full rooster X-Men then they'd win with ease. But the Inivisible Woman can block Telepathy and has in fact even defeated Jean Greys Telekinesis. The Thing is would beat the crap out of Archangel and Beast without much effort. I mean christ even Nightcrawler in that stupid fight in X-Men was just silly to watch Nightcrawler would have battered him. Iceman would drop the Human Torch no problems. Mr. Fantastic would likely as leader per say fight Cyclops and people forget he's quite the genius in fact he's alongside Dr. Doom Marvels mastermind and with a bit of thought can see him finding a way around the X-Mens four man/woman rooster but only with prep. Sue Storms being underestimated here she can beat Jean Grey and if she does the X-Men have a much harder time.

Sorry I didn't realise She Hulk was pitted in till after miss read that bit. Now she's alongisde The Thing easily taking down Beast and Angel sorry they stand absolutely no chance against even The Thing nevermind the both of them.

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Grinningf0x

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The ff have too many powerhouses to loose to this x men team

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TheWatcherKing

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Jean solos

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PyroFN

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@skepta91: Eloquently put.

I’m gonna counter that with a question: how strong was the telepath in question when Sue blocked them out and how skilled were they? It’s best to compare them to Jean to see if Sue can pull that same thing against Jean.

I doubt Thing and She-Hulk can handle Iceman full-force, though Human Torch might occupy Iceman. Beast is a weak link here, but he may be an asset against Reed’s gadgets if Reed decides to use them.

I’m on team X-Men.

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Batvibe12

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X-Men.

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Noone1996

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X-Men win.

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ProteusXManRxis

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X-Men.

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Toratorn

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#40  Edited By Toratorn

Cyclops, Beast and Archangel are pretty useless here, so it's basically FF and She-Hulk vs Iceman and Jean, who will definitely be overwhelmed, but I don't really see FF putting down Iceman unless Torch goes supernova and melts the planet to hell.

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god_spawn

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#41 god_spawn  Moderator

Jean and Bobby are too powerful and versatile here. The second no one is covered by Sue, Jean mentally drops them. Bobby can freeze them, which is a weakness to Reed. Bobby can neutralize Johnny. Cyclops has held back Johnny’s flames. Cyclops still managed to rip off WWH’s skin that Wolverine said was hard to cut, and Scott has held back on Colossus, stating a focused enough beam would kill him. Even if you think he can’t beat Ben or Jen, Jean or Bobby can get them airborne for a second and they get BFR’d by an optic blast. He managed to blast Hulk back a considerable distance and has done so to Logan as well. A couple hundred pounds isn’t changing that much considering his output. The F5 here have the raw strength and such, but their only key player is definitely Sue since the others don’t have the defense against Jean and Bobby’s versatility on top of their ridiculous power. Archangel can at least be a distraction, Beast Just is useless here.

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Crimz

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@pyrofn: She blocked Psi-Lord's telepathy (a grown up version of her son Franklin)

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#43  Edited By Crimz

I'm giving to the FF if they play it smart (which they should with Reed on the team). Reed, Ben, and She-Hulk can take on the Cyclops, Beast, and Archangel (with some difficulty getting hands on Warren)

The most dangerous Sue, Johnny, Jean, and Bobby.

Bobby's weakness is a lack of moisture, Sue containing him in a force-filed limits the amount of moisture he can control so he's be unable to pull of any big feats. All Johnny would have to do is go nova in the force-field and evaporate all moisture within the force-field leaving Bobby useless. The only problem is can Johnny pull it off before Bobby gets him, which I think he can with his speed. Either way, once Bobby is in one of Sue's force-fields his powers are limited and he can be contained.

The real match is Sue vs Jean. Sue can block both Jean's telepathy and telekinesis, but Jean is pretty powerful so there will be a struggle. I still say Sue wins 6 or 7/10 as blocking Jeans telepathy means that Sue can't be detected while invisible which gives her an edge (her invisibility powers are often forgotten, but they are pretty awesome too).

For the X-Men to win they'd have to take out Sue and Johnny fast as they are the big gets threat. Either way it's a close fight for both teams.

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del_torro

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Cyclops optic blasts that can hurt the Hulk would do damage to The Thing.

Xmen team takes this. Especially with iceman and Jean who can solo.

Sues shields can protect from telepathy. She only one shady feat from years ago (even in that feat, it takes mental gymnastics to say that she blocked telepathy, because psilord wasn't actually using it before when her shield was up). Since that time, Emma frost and onslaught (I think), have bypassed her shields.

So going by that, Jean would easily bypass the shield and put all of them to sleep. Plus jeans Shields and sues shields deflect each other.

Sue can't penetrate jeans shields and Jean can't penetrate susans

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PyroFN

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@crimz: As far as I know, Psi-Lord is one possible version of adult Franklin, not the real thing. So, you’re gonna need to put feats of that version of Franklin because 616 Franklin does not equal Psi-Lord.

Where does Psi-Lord fit on the telepathic spectrum as far power and skill?

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hiddenforce

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Jean nor any other Tp has demonstrated using Tp through Sue's force fields

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del_torro

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@hiddenforce: Emma frost has done it. How does Psilord scale to Emma, what telepathy feats does he have?

Emma has planetary feats and has beaten other planetary Telepaths like Xavier and Rachel, she's beaten a skrull hive mind that had copied the powers of Jean, Xavier and Emma and we're using Cerebra to amp themselves, she has Stalemated Exodus and has beaten 1000 Cuckoos (clones of herself) amped with the Phoenix force.

And yet Jean has embarrassed Emma in all their encounters, even Jeans ghost recently suppressed Emma.

So what has Psilord done with telepathy that puts him on emmas level, especially since Emma has accomplished a feat he didn't.

(even looking at the scan of Sue Vs Psilord, I don't remember any indication of him trying to read her mind before she took down her shields, but if you have a link to more scans on this then I'd love to see them).

Let's see

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/57386/1222154-jean_invisible.jpg

I've seen this scan used as proof that Sue can block telepathy, but that's from when Jean came back in X-factor and only had telekinesis.

Then this scans

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/78977/1790245-843781_iwvspl_super.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/78977/1790246-843782_iwvspl2_super.jpg

The first one shows Sue fighting Psilord, and he's blasting her shield with energy blasts, no sign of him trying to read her mind or use telepathy. Then the next scan has her thinking that he doesn't know her shield is down because it's invisible, and him easily hearing this and smirking that she doesn't know he can read her mind.

Again, no proof of her blocking telepathy.

Then finally.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/85380/1767137-871925_got_insidse_sues_shield_with_tp____super_1_.jpg

https://uncannyxmen.net/comics/issue/x-men-fantastic-four-1

X-men/Fantastic 4 #1.

Emma frost easily uses telepathy to get past Sues shield.

Seems to me that Jean would easily use telepathy to shut down Sue, especially since her telekinesis can block out a bloodlust and out to kill sues attacks.

https://i.imgur.com/cy6kbg3.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Pfg4Kg3.jpg

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hiddenforce

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#48  Edited By hiddenforce

@del_torro: The feat of Emma isn't reliable cause Sue didn't even protect herself from Emma sometimes light and sound passes through Sue's force fields but when she wants to she blocks them plus Sue can now manipulate her force fields on a molecular level meaning she can attack Jean through her telekinetic force field with attacks that are invisible

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del_torro

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@hiddenforce: what do you mean she didn't protect from Emma? She had a shield up and Emmas telepathy got past it, apart from that, there are no other showings of her shielding Form telepathy. Even if we cancel Emmas feat by reaching and saying she wasn't defending against Emma, she still has no substantial feats of shielding against telepathy.

She has no feats of deciding when her shields are immune to telepathy or not, we can't just give them to her. On the other hand, a telepath has gotten through her shield easily, so logically a stronger telepath should be able to replicate that without much problem. I'm not as knowledgeable about Sues feats, so I'd like to see more of feats of shielding from telepathy.

Jean also has atomic level telekinesis, so I don't see how sues attacks being molecular level will get past her shield. I already provided links to scans showing Jean shielding from attacks from Sue with killing intent.

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hiddenforce

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@del_torro: Ok yeah I agree Sue has yet to defend her from an telepathic attack. Without Tp Sue and Jean are pretty much evenly matched but it comes down to who's force field can defend them the longest against the other and that is Sue in this case