Emperor Valkorion/Vitiate vs Darth Sidious

Vs.

• Sidious as of ROTJ. Both canon and Legends feats apply
• Battle takes place on neutral ground

Can Vitiate win, or surpass Sidious with his KOTFE feats/accolades?

@silver2467@shootingnova@i_like_swords@dccomicsrule2011@burnface@wollfmyth209@darthant66@shroudofsorrow

Still Sidious, but Valkorion comes close.

Sidious wins a majority, but Valkorion can compete.

Sidious would win in a Pretty Good Fight Actually. I wanna See this Fight in a Game or Movie or something

Damn, I forgot to call the SWTOR team: @aurbere@beniboybling@selenial@cs_zoltan

lol.

Sidious, always Sidious. As far as feats and accolades are concerned Valkorion still doesn't know how to hold a lightsaber. Until then he could be more powerful than Sidious but still not gona win (even thogh he is not).

But it's true that Valkorion can compete, but it's not surprise. Talzin can compete and Valkorion > Talzin.

Sidious wins. I agree with bat_siri we need to make this fight happen.

@magnus18: True Dat Mon Amie

Sidious is overall better than Valkorion to varying degrees. He should win handily.

OFFS...Just wait a year before you start up this mess again. The new story just came out and it won't complete for nearly a year. So until then, we won't have seen all that Valkorian has to offer.

Feast for Valkorion?

BUMP!!!!

Still Sidious in a good fight.

Sidious is the best Sith of all times as Roman Nikolaev said.

Now that Vitiate is gaining more and more feats the longer Bioware expands the story, he might become Palpatine's Old Republic equal. He's destroyed Ziost all by himself and plans on performing a ritual where he can feed off the Galaxy. He also feeds off of everyone in the war, and lead two big empires (but is now stuck in the mind of TOR hero) idk what they'll do with him next but he's turning out to be a successful sith these days

Well this is ROTJ Sidious and I believe he wins. Imagine if this were DE Sidious.

I'd say Valkorion wins a very slight majority, unless its DE Sidious then it's an even split.

For all we know, Sidious is just Vitiate Reincarnated.

@wollfmyth209: You have Valky above Palpatine?

@zapan87: I can see a case for that, sure. But overall I'd say Sid > Valk slightly, just posted that image cuz it's hilarious.

Sidious. Close fight, but Sidious.

@jacthripper said:

that is an interesting idea.

Valk right now

ROTJ Sidious? Probably Valkorion.

Is this a death match? because I can see Palpatine blitzing with lightsaber.

Valkorion has better force feats (draining planets in lass than a minute, controlling hundreds of bodies at the same time, very very focused force lightning and his ability to possess people.) but Sidious is still better duellis.

Valkorion for the stomp. Sidious is too overrated. Many think he can compete with the Ones, Sauron, Morgot, Onaga, Darkseid...etc

Who cares about lightsabers when you have the Force?

Valkorian.

They tie

@unsodoss: @wollfmyth209: @noobsnowman: @blackjax137: @purple_d_dragon: @freedon_nadd_1: @fodderfilth76: @zapan871:

ROTS Sidious is canonically the most powerful sith all time as of rots

rotj sidious is more powerful than rots sidious

Vitiate DOES NOT have better feats than rots sidious who is<rotj sidious/

Vitiate has no feats without prep that is on the level of the following from sidious:

a. Force choking dooku from across the galaxy

b. Sidious's hologram(which was broadcasting from across the galaxy) creating a storm on vjun

c. Sidious moving faster than anakin can percieve

d. Sidious matching yoda who was the all time most powerful untill sidious(whether he lost that title to sidious in rots, rotj, or de is up for debate.)

Also vitiate gets STOMPED by de sidious. Vitiate has no hope vs someone who can fight in nano seconds and create storms that tear holes in time and space. The notion that he splits is just plain stupid.

This has been done way too many times and threads like this should stop. Sidious as of rots is more powerful, faster, and a way way better duelist. Post byss in rotj, sidious gets even more powerful.

didn't talizin lose to windu? or was she weakened there?

but otherwise, spot on

@lady_liberty@jashro44

this has been done so many times, its getting annoying and any argument for vitiate would be a complete contradiction of canon, i think this should be locked

@kbroskywalker: This is an old thread. I don't think its a mismatch.

@kbroskywalker: Quotes aside if we're looking at feats Valkorian should take this.

I'd give Sidious the very slight margin above Vitiate "at this time". Mainly just cause of saber skills, and feats. Other then that I don't see Sidious that much above him.

@fodderfilth76:he still loses. ROTJ Sidious> ROTS Sidious

ROTS Sidious has moved faster than anakin can percieve, he's faster

ROTS Sidious force choked dooku across the freaking galaxy. The same dooku who has ragdolled anakin and kenobi. He has better tk.

ROTS Sidious has caused planetwide storms on vjun just by appearing as a hologram which was being broadcasted from across the galaxy. he is more powerful.

ROTS Sidious has almost instantly killed three council masters from the tcw era.

TCW Era jedi>than stwor jedi in general.

He's also a way better duelist which really makes this a mismatch.

Vitiate without prep or rituals has nothing on the level of the afore mentioned feats, HE LOSES.

@jashro44

Obviously its your call but imo as sidious is more powerful, faster, and a much much better duelist, I'm not sure how this is anything other than a mismatch.

@keikrosskira: this is rotj sidous who is > rots sidious so there's a bigger disparity here than with rots sidous vs vitiate.

@kbroskywalker: Given speed is directly related to augmentation and thus force power I wouldn't say he's faster. Absorbing the life force of Ziost should put Valkoirna who as Vitiate was already powerful enough to wipe out Dark Councils instantaneously, mind wipe entire space stations and thought to be capable of possibly replicating the Nathema ritual with his own power by Revan, on or above Sidious as a force user.

And was Dooku going to resist knowing that if he did it would be taken as a sign of rebellion by his master and punished even worse then he was? Considering how hes's portrayed being Sidious's faithful servant I doubt it.

Vitiate's presence caused planetwide storms on Dromund Kaas as well.

As I mentioned Vitiate has killed entire Dark Councils instantaneously as well along with dominating the likes of Malak and Revan.

Do you have evidence for this claim?

Given any match between the two would most likely come down to a force battle I doubt that makes much of a difference.

False. All of the feats I mentioned above occured without a ritual.

@kbroskywalker I am very aware of wich version of Sidious it is.

@fodderfilth76:

Vitiate's presence caused planetwide storms on Dromund Kaas as well.

Given speed is directly related to augmentation and thus force power I wouldn't say he's faster. Absorbing the life force of Ziost should put Valkoirna who as Vitiate was already powerful enough to wipe out Dark Councils instantaneously, mind wipe entire space stations and thought to be capable of possibly replicating the Nathema ritual with his own power by Revan , on or above Sidious as a force user.

And what basis do you have for saying he did the ziost feat without a ritual?

Saying vitiate is more powerful has NO basis. Canonical statements say otherwise, feats say otherwise. Nothing you mention matches sidious causing planetwide storms by just appearing AS JUST A HOLOGRAM. that was being broadcasted FROM ACROSS THE GALAXY.

And was Dooku going to resist knowing that if he did it would be taken as a sign of rebellion by his master and punished even worse then he was? Considering how hes's portrayed being Sidious's faithful servant I doubt it.

Dude, dooku can't resist sidious. Dooku considered his master to be, "beyond power". The claim that dooku could have resisted if he wanted to is completely badseless. Sidious force choked one of the most powerful force users of the era from across the freaking galaxy. Someone who has ragdolled ANAKIN. Off guard or on guard, what sidious did easily trumps any of vitiate's feats.

As I mentioned Vitiate has killed entire Dark Councils instantaneously as well along with dominating the likes of Malak and Revan

That was massively pre prime malak and revan. In the novel revan, an amped vitiate got tkd by a massively weakened revan. When revan got up from being blasted by lightning, scourge predicted the fight between both as 50/50(yes he was referring to the team but surik and the scourge are FODDER to vitiate.)

Now I'm assuming you have the good sense to accept Revan is less powerful than sidious( and if you don't, I'm not continuing this discussion.) Vitiate may have been pre prime, he was still amped, and revan was massively weakened having just been trapped in stasis. If this weakened revan can tk an amped vitiate, then sidious can RAGDOLL HIM.

Has vitiate appeared to be fading in and out of existence to any force user?

Anakin is extremely fast being able to cover dooku's vision with light. Vitiate has no speed feat that compares because he's slower.

I also find the fact you think vitiate is somehow powerful enough to end this fight before sidious can use a lightsaber laughable.

But really this isn't a debate because of the numerous canonical quotes that say sidous as of rots(who is weaker than rotj sidious) is more pwoerful than any sith before him. Saying vitiate wins is contradicting obvious canon.

dude seriously? I know you know better than this.

THEY TIE?

screw it , I'm copy and pasting:

ROTS Sidious is canonically the most powerful sith all time as of rots

rotj sidious is more powerful than rots sidious

Vitiate DOES NOT have better feats than rots sidious who is<rotj sidious/

Vitiate has no feats without prep that is on the level of the following from sidious:

a. Force choking dooku from across the galaxy

b. Sidious's hologram(which was broadcasting from across the galaxy) creating a storm on vjun

c. Sidious moving faster than anakin can percieve

d. Sidious matching yoda who was the all time most powerful untill sidious(whether he lost that title to sidious in rots, rotj, or de is up for debate.)

Also vitiate gets STOMPED by de sidious. Vitiate has no hope vs someone who can fight in nano seconds and create storms that tear holes in time and space. The notion that he splits is just plain stupid.

This has been done way too many times and threads like this should stop. Sidious as of rots is more powerful, faster, and a way way better duelist. Post byss in rotj, sidious gets even more powerful.

@kbroskywalker: I didn't say he accomplished the Ziost feat without a ritual. Just that Revan thought he might have been capable of such without a ritual in the Revan novel.

It's not really a combative feat now is it? Don't you think it could have just been coincidental and have occurred in the novel to make Sidious's appearance more dramatic?

It's not baseless. Maul was tortured by Sidious as a child and only a few years before TPM he was forced to stand perfectly still while Sidious moved his lightsaber around his body so close that if he twitched he would die. He constantly forces all his apprentice in Legends to debase themselves for him and to know that any sign of betrayal or ineptitude shall be met with harsh consequences which is why Dooku was being punished in the first place.

An amped Vitiate? Also Bane learned how to purge poisions and drugs from his system from a holocron of DARTH Revan meaning Revan knew how to purge whatever he'd been drugged with from his system. Not to mention the fact that Revan only managed to push Vitiate back by channeling both the Light and the Dark Side simultaneously in a focused force attack.

Given Surik saved Revan's life with her saber throw they apparently would have played a bigger role in the fight then you're suggesting.

Given that there's no reason this would affect Revan's abilities in the Force I don't see how his imprisonment is relevant.

Given his force feats and logical scaling Valkorian should logically be able to accomplish this level of speed.

That's illogical. Simply because a character has no demonstrated superior speed does not mean they are inferior.

Plenty of quotes contradict what's logical which is why you dismiss them unless they actually fit within the portrayal of events that occurred.

@fodderfilth76: not a single quote says vitiate>sidious, NOT ONE.

Revan can think what he wants, if he needed a ritual to do it is, he isn't replicating it in an intense battle.

I can literally say the same of vitiate creating plantary storms. If a hologram broadcasted from across the galaxy can create storms which vitiate needs to be in the vicinity of to create, than its clear the dude in the hologram is more powerful.

It is baseless, on what basis are you saying dooku has any chance of resistingsidious's force attacks?What the hell does revan using both sides prove? He's still outclassed by both yoda and sidious. Revan was weakened, being tortured for years will diminish your ability to fight. Vitiate was amped as he was in his throne room in dromund kass(was he not?)

Surik did this as vitiate was unaware. Considering darth nyriss(who revan instakilled) stomped both surik and the scrouge, its pretty clear they're fodder if vitiate is paying attention to them.

WHAT FEATS? WHAT SCALING? REVAN WAS MOMENTS FROM AWARE FROM KILLIONG HIMW ITH HIS LIGHTSABER. IF REVAN CAN CONTEND SPEED WISE, THEN SIDIOUS IS FASTER.

Sidious has better feats, he's clearly faster(as shown by revan vs vitiate), and the notion vitiate can somehow end this before sabers become a factor is ridiculous. Vitiate loses near every if not every single time.

RotS and onwards take it everytime. TPM Sidious vs Valkorion would be a good fight, though.

@kbroskywalker: GG2Skilled4Me.

@fodderfilth76:

I learned on my skin; that people like @kbroskywalker are not the ones you should mess up with in no case at all. Just tell your word nicely and leave like a gentleman; it is pointless to debate with such people because in the end you get to nowhere and you might embarrass yourself with no apparent reason.

Not to mention that a lot of things skywalker listed(I bet he didn't even think them or analyze them) just throws them off like a baby to prove his point of view.

Just when you look at the things Tenebrae had done with the Force before even being a fully-fledged dark sided-Force-user(and even not fully trained); you can make yourself an idea of how strong is Valkorion/Vitiate...

The Sith Emperor(before his KOTFE counterpart) had managed to ''tank'' an Oneness strike from Wanky Revan and he was barely affected. If you know what's Oneness, fine, if not, read more.

How well that goes in Sidious's favor?

@freedon_nadd_1: anyone who thinks vitiate stomps sidious when he has inferior statements and is CANONICALLY weaker shouldn't be bashing other users, Countless people have debunked these ridiculous.

Yes you might embarass yourslef becuase saying valk>sidious is a very very stupid statement.

Inferior statements? How about provide such one?

Canonically? Yeah. When Valky was not even born in Star Wars. I could debunk right now your precious Sidious strongest Sith accolades with a press of a keyboard button.

At least I embarrass myself by analyzing the content not just throwing with it in people like it's shit.

If by "countless" you mean a few "PT/OT/Sidious Comic Vine fanboys", then you are correct.

Note: If you want me to even debating with you at the slightest; then I suggest you to read and analyze what you find. If not, I shall just ignore you.

@freedon_nadd_1: the latest disney quote proclaming this came in 2015. Vitiate was a character in 2003 which was before rots.

Vitiate created planetwide storms when he was in the vicinity of said planets, sidious did this when he was broadcasted a sa hologram from across the galaxy.

Vitiate was even speed wise with revan, Anakin was unable to perceive sidious

Still Sidious

@the_valeyard: but but, vitiate beat revan who is like the heart of the force and totally>>>>>>>>any other sw character

DERP