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#1 Posted by beatboks1 (8655 posts) - - Show Bio

Rules [MUST READ]

  • Please, when posting scans, set them to Medium size. I CANNOT stress this enough. Clogging the pages with massive 600x600 images doesn't help.
  • I kept this hidden when we were signing up, because I didn't want it to be abused. You character can use whatever is, canonly, available to them. For Example: I have Talia al Ghul on my team; if I have prep time, I can have her use League resources and even set up assassins. This is all about strategy and using your Dream Team to the best of their ability. Bear in mind, I don't want this ridiculously abused. I'm not going to have ten thousand assassins waiting at the battle site.
  • When voting, you MUST post why you chose who won. I don't want people to just look at the match-ups and pick the most likely to win, I wholeheartedly want you to read their strategies. Remember, strategy > strength everytime. Everytime.
  • Keep debates civil. If you need a third party to step in because you can't resolve a legitimate dispute, PM me.
  • Finally, HAVE SOME FREAKING FUN!

Battleground/Stipulations

Prep?: Yes. 2 Hours.

How Precise?: Names of the team-members. Their strengths and weaknesses. Anything else will have to be acquired through canon means (SHIELD database etc)

Battleground: (This was bloody hard to choose without giving a massive advantage to certain adaptive characters [such as Magneto/Namor])

Yes, the battlefield IS in this state
Yes, the battlefield IS in this state

Time of Day: 5pm, Sunset

Beat Masters [beatboks1]

vs

Age of Empire [Emperorznb]

Emperorznb, if I've linked wrong characters let me know and I'll correct.

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#2 Posted by emperorznb (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

Hey thanks dude, really appreciate it ^^. Btw, you go ahead and make the first move. I have to do something later so maybe I'll catch up tomorrow sigh....

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#3 Edited by beatboks1 (8655 posts) - - Show Bio

OK here goes

Prep

Querl using his incredible genius (described as the smartest man in the universe in the 30th Century) first has at the ready some of his existing inventions (some with modifications)

  • time Bubble, Adapted to be will sensitive and controlled like the legion flight rings so it can be controlled by thought lined by 3rd device (needless to say to contend with Kang's time travel)
  • Time viewer ( to watch and be pre aware of the enemies prep and prepare for that)
  • telepathic ear plugs, re worked to act as both protection and a TP link between team ( to protect all team members from Emma Frost, and increase team team dynamic in flow of battle)
  • A few of his personal force fields (one as per normal worn on his belt and able to be internalized, the other two in a projector form able to be used as containment)
  • Legion flight rings for Shield and Liberty Belle

As all these are existing inventions of Querl and only a couple will require slight modification he will still have over an hour to create these in addition.

  • Special glasses/sensors for all team that will allow them to detect where Nightcrawler's about to "pop up"
  • back up bodies for each team member and load and save a "backup" of their minds in case any fall too quickly (sort of a variation of what he did in Three boot)
  • having looked over the schematics of the original design of Danny's (Blue Devil's) power suit that gave him his strength, speed and agility enhancements (factor of 20) he comes up with a few advancements on the design that are withing Danny's technical capability of creating while he's occupied with the others so that he can have physicals to match Kang as well as where they match in other areas.
  • as back up he has Bill prepare the process to use his ray to genetically alter him to Shields enhanced stats (similar to what the suit would do) in case the suit doesn't meet his approval upon review.

Battle

  • Obviously Querl will deal with Kang. With whichever one works he'll be equal to Kang in physicals (if not slightly above) and have the same technological capabilities (if anything his force field is stronger than Kang's. It can withstand ground zero of a nuclear blast and quite a bit more more ).His true advantage is his greater intellect. Like Reed, his brains have defeated galactic level threats, like the sun eater that devours entire solar systems, or restart time after it was stopped.
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  • Liberty Belle will take on Slade. Before her upgrade she was more than able to mix it with the likes of Baron Blitzkrieg who's physical stats are almost double Slade's (mix it not beat- she could occupy him for a while). With the upgrade she was able to throw him and a one ton (2080pound) actual liberty Bell around like they were chaff in the wind from a distance.
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She will collapse a wall on him (knowing that with his healing he wont be killed and then just hurl him out of the vicinity (BFR) with her sonic waves

  • Metamorppho using the projector force fields will entrap and contain Emma and Photon with himself. he will then turn himself into a a knock out gas that will take both of them down. If either seem to be resistant (or Photon tries to ionize the gas) he will become something more reactive (to Photon energy manip')that will explode taking both down with the force of such a tightly contained blast
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  • Apollo (who is Wildstorm's equivalent to Superman but less powerful) will be for Obsidian and shield. Obsidian will use his shadow powers to cut off Apollo from his power source (the sun) Unlike Superman he depowers faster and while he's loosing power shield is to hit him with everything he has until he falls. He has the strength to do some damage to a weakened Apollo, the durability to take some hits until he's weakened, and the agility to minimize how many of those hits he takes. Early in his appearances he Obsidian was shown to have a weakness to light ( like when Atom used a light to make him solid again in All Star Squadron), though after the first couple of years this wasn't the case. Since in later years he was able to absorb all the light thrown at him by many powerful light projectors I don't see Apollo's light vision doing the job since the light of his fathers Starheart, his sisters Power Pulse and Stargirl's star rod couldn't. The only times after the first year or so he succumbed to light was when he was holding back (like when Silver Scarab blasted him when he was holding back against his sister- after absorbing all the light a rainbow character threw at him
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  • That leaves Blue Devil to tend to Night crawler. With his enhanced hearing and infrared/ultraviolet vision he will be the best one to be able to detect where night crawler is. he will of course also have Brainy's sensors (or glasses what ever) from Prep. With his durability (greater than a Sherman Tank) and the fact that any damage done to him "mystically heals" after the curse of Nebrios, means that even if caught unawares he can take NC's worst and dish out lots more. (that's not even counting the demonic flames from his trident). Plus with his "wierdness magnet" thing ( where his mere presence bad things are MUCH more likely around him - for example the odds of a bank getting robbed when he enters rise by a large factor, the chances of an earthquake in his area also a lot higher etc) means NC's not getting an easy time. He will easily be occupied until one of the others can come to help. Best option would be Obsidian who in his shadow form can be intangable while still able to touch others. There's also the fact that DB can "summon" his trident, the hellfire of which sends whoever he fires it at to hell (I'd say well outside NC's ability to teleport back in a hurry- instance BFR, or use the trident to change the flow of time around his adversary (like he did against John Stewart to make his ring run out of charge) - though to be honest I don't think that ability is still canon (post deal with Neron)
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@emperorznb: Bring it on

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#4 Posted by beatboks1 (8655 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorznb:

Bump

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#5 Posted by nickthedevil (14901 posts) - - Show Bio

Thats a hell of a strategy to beat. Get em.

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#6 Posted by beatboks1 (8655 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickthedevil said:

Thats a hell of a strategy to beat. Get em.

I certainly thought so. Like RainEffect said, prep and strategy can make all the difference.

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#7 Posted by RainEffect (3376 posts) - - Show Bio

Holy crap, and I thought I had a lot of scans.

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#8 Posted by TrueIlluminatus (9579 posts) - - Show Bio

Emperor has a hell of a challenge on his hands.

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#9 Posted by beatboks1 (8655 posts) - - Show Bio

@RainEffect said:

Holy crap, and I thought I had a lot of scans.

I've learned the hard way, that my penchant for choosing very obscure characters makes scans essential to make voters aware of what my team/s characters can do.

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#10 Posted by emperorznb (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

Wew... just got home from the New Years party xD... gonna post my fight tomorrow... i'm pooped

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#11 Edited by emperorznb (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

All right… my turn xD

Kang’s Prep

First and foremost, I would like to commend Kang as one of Marvel’s foremost villain. He can be considered as the most intelligent and the most cunning man of the 30 31, or whatever century that even Doom himself envies Kang’s bleeding edge technology. He is the man that is gonna have to do most of the prepping. Here goes some of his prep.

  • Of course his own armor which could stop and alter time at will but of course it would be prohibited to use time as a weapon.
  • His helmet which could display numerous possibilities of the outcome of the match
  • His personal force field which held out from Thor’s blast with no shields up
  • His weapons mainly guns, cannon, diode blasters
  • Power inhibitor
  • Tech that enabled Kang to get unnoticed from Galactus, Surfer, and Strange
  • Some of Kang bots or replacements from the team mates
  • A mini-ship so he could snuggle up some extra line of defense while he stays cozy inside.

Apollo’s prep

No doubt Apollo would just use this time to ask Kang to teleport him to a solar system powered by two suns that enabled him to defeat a guy who has the power of 2 million men and counting… nuff said.

Deathstroke’s prep

Alright, I got another badass with prep here but right now I’m just gonna give him his Bo staff, guns (will be given by Kang), stun bombs or some sort coz he will be more of a team player.

Alright now for the battle

  • I planned my team to attack as a whole and not individually so it might go well as it goes by. Kang will be in his mini-ship armed with his technologically advanced guns and such. Now these factors will be key play… He would give tech suit to Nightcrawler and DS so that they don’t get spotted by any means necessary… I mean Kang went through Galactus, Surfer, and Strange without even getting spotted so I doubt the sensors to see where Nightcrawler would be popping out is useful.
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  • Now Kang will be on his ship doing what he does best for this case... a far-end caster that is also a supplier of weapons! He will give Slade his guns specifically the darkmatter beam which could even hurt Photon, delta ray which could pass through 40th century force fields, a gun that can deharmonize a force field that can destroy the force fields of Time-Keeper, a gun that could depower heroes, an ultradiode gun, paralysis rays which stopped a god and an Atlantean, and etc. Slade may have some of his weapons destroyed but that's where Nightcrawler comes in... he supplies Slade with the weapons he needs and I think Slade could blast all of them effortlessly due to his superhuman reflex and agility plus Nightcrawler can teleport him when he gets in the dumps.
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  • Nightcrawler is mainly used to teleport Slade in and out of the current battlefield (the part of the field where there is the largest concentration) for better coverage but he could also act on his own. Since he is unnoticeable due to the tech Kang has given him, he can have the free will to go in and beat some heroes up mainly Shield or Liberty Belle. But I plan on giving him the chance to set up the power nullifiers that Kang will give him. He can implant those on Obsidian and Metamorpho's neck so they would be not a problem anymore since they are stripped off their powers given that Slade would have a hard time hitting them with darkmatter, ultradiode, and power inhibiting blasts.
  • My plan on Apollo is very simple. Since he is charged for two hours, I would like him to speed blitz Blue Devil and knock him out as fast as he can so there wouldn't be anymore surprises from that dude since he is mystical. By the time he knocks out Blue Devil, he will go out to aid the mvp of this battle, Deatstroke... Obsidian may cut Apollo's power source off but it will not lower his energy until Apollo has used them all which will take a very long time since he is sun bathed. He would just keep Obsidian company until Slade has blasted him but that's where Photon will come in handy.
  • Now Photon is just the backup when attacks don't work on Obsidian which I highly doubt since Kang's weapons can hurt energy forms. While Deathstroke can sap Obsidian's powers away using darkmatter energy or other sorts of energy that he could come up, it still won't be enough since Obsidian is a tough cookie. Photon would be there since she could manipulate light, she could produce solar radiation enough to power Apollo through the rest of the fight or she could fine tune herself into the right kind of radiation which could hurt Obsidian... But the power inhibitors would come on Obsidian first... photon is just a backup plan.
  • Now time for the other mvp which is Kang... Now obviously Querl would be taken out by Deathstroke cause Querl's shield won't be working... but as a backup plan, Kang can possibly hack into Querl's tech but it would be hard since both of their tech is highly advanced. Now for the others to hobble them, Kang with his mastery over the Cobalt force and some display of magnetism... he could potentially make them feel gravity as strong as half of the earth's weight rendering them motionless and it will be easier for Deathstroke to land the Coup de' grace.
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@beatboks1: Done with my turn.

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#12 Posted by beatboks1 (8655 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorznb: NOT bad, Now the real battle can begin.

Since I can now see what Querl could in the time viewer I can give the real battle plan.

Having actually watched the battle's outcome in the time viewer Querl is ware of not just the prep the opponent has done but their battle plan, reactions and outcome. When first watching it he sees his team fall to seemingly no-one, so adjusts the viewer until he can see the enemy. knowing now how they are hidden is is no great task to adjust the glasses/senses (for all team members) so that Kang's tech that hides his team is ineffective. He also in addition grabs an anti energy bomb (his own creation made from absorbium) that he used against the sun eater.

The battle initially goes exactly as erperrznb describes. Of course unknown to Kang and his team mates their quick victory is actually against the back up duplicate bodies created by Querl with a downloaded back up of this minds. The real team are safely hidden in own of Obsidian's shadows away from the battle.

Once Kang and team mates "win" they are surprised to be entrapped in one of Querl's force fields. Outside the force field Obsidian spreads his shadow self both cutting off all light to inside but also using his power over the darkness within soul show's both Kang and Slade their own inner evil turning them into jabbering idiots. Querl also entrapped within the force field an anti energy bomb which when detonnated absorbed all the energy of Apollo and Photon (as id did for Sun eater who had devoured a LOT more than two suns for power). Blue Devil then uses his trident to send the whole opposing team(most of whom are now powerless or of no threat what soever ) to hell.

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#13 Posted by emperorznb (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Since Kang could also know the outcome of the battle by seeing alternate realities or the future reality in his helmet, he could also give the counter attack to whatever Querl and his team will be doing.

He would have also known the outcome of the battle by using robots that actually resemble other members on this team with the same power to scout whatever the opposing team is gonna throw. Of course Kang will not allow the opposing team to watch them prepare with the use of time because Kang is a lot more formidable when it comes to chronobattles. Kang's tech that hides his team is superiorly efficient since it avoided being spotted by the likes of Galactus, Surfer, and Dr. Strange who has cosmic awareness. Like you've said, the special sensors needs some modifications and Kang would also take into precaution to upgrade his tech that already surpassed cosmic beings into a higher degree so even the adjustment of Querl's tech will be pointless. Wouldn't his anti energy bomb also annihilate his own teammates or dopplegangers? While Querl may be dropping that bomb, Kang would have already blasted that with a vibration ray from his ship while he and his teammates will be vibrating at a different frequency to be in another timeline for a short moment to avoid the cataclysm. Also, Kang could hack the technology in the bomb to render it useless or turn it against its creator. Or he could probably use the gun to send it to the darkmatter universe were it won't be bothering anyone.

Knowing that Kang can look to the future, he already knows the outcome of the battle that they were only replacements so before the battle has started he created robots that has similar abilities as his teammates to scout as said on above. The heroes are placed in chronopolis were they will be waiting the final strike. Or when the real Obsidian has finally shown itself, Slade can quickly use his stun gun and the power inhibitor gun to stop Obsidian from teleporting the opponent's real team so that they would have no way to show up or Querl could use his tech to teleport them but it's too late for their heavy hitter which is Obsidian which was already stripped from it's power.

While Querl may create a force field, Kang will create a time-space discontinuum or a time containment zone just outside the force field and sending them on a different timeline where Obsidian is not anymore part of the battle since he is outside of the force field. Obsidian cannot penetrate the shield of Kang since it can absorb energy and is resistant to mind control. His armor could be modified to probably absorb photonic energy which can be also used in darkness but it would be too late for Obsidian when Anyone on the team especially Nightcrawler and Photon attaches a power inhibitor to any part of his dark self and blast him with a power drainer. Among that, Photon could use her powers to counter act the darkness long enough for Nightcrawler or Slade to finish their job with Obsidian. Or Kang could simply send Obsidian to another timeline.

Querl's anti-energy bomb as I've said on above will be nullified when sent to the darkmatter universe or when Kang's team goes to another timeline for a duration when that bomb explodes making them unaffected by it. So the bomb is a non-factor. Apollo and Photon speed-blitzes Querl and takes him out then Slade blasts him with a stun gun and attaches a power inhibitor then Slade would just use his stun gun again on Blue Devil and Apollo and Photon speed-blitz for the win.

Also, Kang would be using his mastery over the Cobalt Force right from the beginning of the battle to hobble the opposing team whether they are clones or real. Kang could also make robots of his team members with the same abilities and power sets, send Growing man to support them which is uberly strong, and make dupes of his team just in case the opposing team manages to get a win. And with his tech to hide his team members... you can't hit what you can see and the adversary will be taken out before they could even adjust the sensors to a point where it can match the tech that can hide from high level cosmic beings and a sorcerer supreme.

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#14 Posted by beatboks1 (8655 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorznb

We could go on forever with the whole my guy knows what's going to happen and so forth.

when it comes to tech and time/dimensional manipulation anything one team can do so can the other. For the record using tech Querl has also bested entities on the level of those that could not sense Kang ( like 30th Century Mordru who's MUCH more powerful than 20th century one and easily above classic Strange, the Guardians, the Controller and many more). They didn't see what he had coming either.

Few points I think your forgetting.

1. In his shadow form Obsidian can be quite intangible unless he desires not to be. Usually that means no one touches him but he touches them. So there'll be no effective use or a stun gun or attaching power inhibitors.

2. Your also forgetting about the ability of Obsidians shadow powers of ragnor. They include the ability to absorb time and souls (that's why the JSA lived so long having the time absorbed by Karkul expel into them). As such his isn't a telapthic attach at all and Kang's shields would have no defense for it.

3. Querl is every bit as adept (if not more so) at creating or manipulating time space distortion fields or containment.

4. Querls force fields have contained time manipulators like Time Trapper (who's feats are greater than any Kang has and are more on the level of Darkseid or Thanos). Time Trapper after all has complete control over time without tech, he can age and de-age people and created the entire 20th century time line at his will to set things in motion. I fail to see how anything Kang is going to do is getting him out of one. If a complete master of time can't move through Brainy's Force field than kang's not.

5. It's an anti energy bomb, mad from "absorbium". Any energy directed at it will simply be absorbed and activate it. So how is it being nullified.

added prep

Blue Devil sends Obsidian to lands/palace in Hell for a power up. In the realm of hell so close to SOOO many dark souls he reaches levels even greater than those of the Under world unleashed or Darkness sagas.

In underworld unleashed Obsidian was linked to every dark place in the universe. he could see from every shadow and every part of the void. In the void of space he was almost master of everything and he could transport and move through the darkness. He literally becomes the void of space and has complete control over it. Suddenly the dark skies of the unbound universe are the

Added Battle tactic.

Blue Devil uses his Trident to circle the battle field with their opponents in it, increasing the speed time flow (like hi did in the scans in my first strategy post against GL running his power ring out). result my team speed blitzes everyone.

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#15 Posted by emperorznb (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: We could also go on forever with my guys knowing the capabilities of your guys. Kang has a much better view on time IMO. He could pull them in and out of the time stream to make dupes out of them.

Blasting entities are not in this. It's about whether they could sense Kang's troops with the kind of cloaking technology. And if you're considering about firepower Kang destroyed Time Keeper's shields with ease. Note that Time-Keeper has pretty much godlike prep. In short, Kang did not only blast cosmics, he cloaked himself. That's pretty impressive since Galactus and Surfer has cosmic awareness and SS Strange can detect any life present. Are they above classic strange who have impressed LT and break the force field surrounding him when LT trapped strange?

Some points, tactics, strategy, prep I might add:

  1. Obsidian can go intangible yes. But he is still composed of energy whether the team can touch him or not. So absorbing his energy and sending him to the dark matter dimension will work on him. Also, is his reaction time faster than Slade's, Apollo's, Nightcrawler's or even Photon's? He would have energy drained from him before he could react.
  2. As I've said he still has to use energy. That attack may not be telepathic but Kang is shielded from energy based attacks and he could also influence the other members by giving them the tech to resist energy based attacks. Kang could also stop time so why not stop time at the instance the battle started and defeat the enemy.
  3. Kang's tech has already been proven to cloak itself from cosmics. You've stated that the sensor's are still going to need some modification. Kang could greatly improve his design that Querl will have a hard time coping up since Kang.
  4. Alright again, Kang has the tech to destroy force fields or anything that were created by the Time Keepers whose feats are greater than that of Thanos, Darkseid, and Time Trapper's. The Time Keeper also has control over temporal energy as well as chronokinesis. They can remove countless realities that not even the Living Tribunal can intervene. I'm pretty sure Kang who can destroy the shields of Time Keepers who can have authority further than the Living Tribunal would break through Querl's shields easily. If we're talking about de-aging and chronokinesis in battle then Kang's the guy. What's stopping him from freezing time or sending his enemies in another timeline or he could just transfer his team on one of his chronopolis while they heal and get back to battle. As far as I'm concerned, Kang can fight while in a timestream and has control over it so time will go like he wishes and to avoid diversions.
  5. The anti-energy bomb will be nullified by a) using a darkmatter beam... it is not an energy beam because it is also an anti-energy beam... Kang can transport it in the darkmatter dimension b)Kang could use his team like robots first to scout the bomb and then Kang would have the bomb teleported in another timeline then back again c)he stops the bomb from detonating via time manipulation.
  6. If blue devil can react first... Photon could finish him fast before he could even build a circle.
  7. Kang could hack into tech... meaning those telepathic earplugs can be rendered useless making Emma useful and using telepathy on Obsidian using his schizophrenia against him and making him see false illusions.
  8. Obsidian can move through all of the dark parts in space? Photon can light the battlefield all up. The fight does take place in only one battlefield.
  9. Also, if that were the case on bringing Obsidian to hell to absorb the souls then better yet Kang will create a time barrier around the battlefield while as you've stated in your strategy that Obsidian will be outside the force field that Kang will use a tech that can destroy a timeline while remaining unharmed inside the barrier. I doubt Obsidian could enter the force field and even if he is inside it meaning that he is cut from all the powers and darkness of the void from the outside leaving only all the power he collected in hell, Kang can trap his energy form inside a time shifting cube that will stop everything in motion.
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10. And even if Obsidian is intangible... isn't he still made up of energy and can be attacked by particle radiation based weapons and energy attacks? If so then Kang's weapons will take Obsidian down and strip him off his powers.

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#16 Posted by beatboks1 (8655 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorznb:

I didn't say anything about "blasting" entities, I said "BESTING" and it was also by cloaking in several instances. Hence anything that Kang could do Querl could counter. His devices have hidden him from the same level beings that Kang has been able to "cloak himself from. He has also contained beings of that level or time controllers in his force fields. And YES 30th Century Mordru is above classic Strange level as is time Trapper. They haven't been powered down since COIE and before crisis were both so powerful that they could solo a combined JSA, JLA, and LOSh only defeated by plot with Querl's brains. Those combined teams included SA Superman/WW/Green Lantern/Doctor Fate/ Mon-El/ etc etc etc. In fact since crisis 30th Century Mordru has actually got better feats.

1. Actually he's composed of void, it's the complete lack of energy. It's the reason that the only way that the JSA could defeat Ian Karkul in the All Star Squadron issue ( "the JSA tale the worlds not ready to learn about") was by the combined powers of Spectre, Green Lantern, and Starman letting loose with every bit of energy they had.

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That was after "Classic Dr Fate" (who by the way is classic Strange level) expended everything he had fighting Karkul for a few pages and was almost absorbed by that void.

2. it's NOT energy, is metaphysical. It acts on a completely different level. No force field can contain or protect against something ethereal in nature. A force field is exactly that a force, that acts on physical properties. Energy having properties of matter 9as the two are interchangeable ) is therefore affected. But not emotion, or soul. Telepathy may be an energy but the soul isn't.

3. As I've said so has Querl's so whatever that tech can cloak from it can work out ways to break those cloaks.

4. So has Querl's. he broke through the iron curtain of time created by Time Trapper. And yet he's created temporal restraints and force fields that can contain TT. Show me one feat of the time keepers that exceeds Time trappers. A being who could manipulate and control vast expanses of time (completely controlled the 20th centuries development) or pull one instance of time out of the time stream and create at will a pocket universe with it outside of time (a pocket universe that Querl Dox was able to find and infiltrate)

5.The way absorbium works is to absorb anything. energy, anti energy not going to matter.

6. He doesn't need to react. he can tank. Yes he can be hurt but since his body heals almost immediately he'll still be there to take the next one. Since all he has to do is think and the trident does he doesn't even need to act to make it happen. so she could blast the hell out of him and it would still happen. look to the scans in my first strategy post. he doesn't even need to have brought the trident to the battle, he only has to think of it and it appears. hell, when Etrigan got the trident he was sure he could use it to usurp power in hell. BD went to take it back and Etrigan blasted him with it (a full force blast of hell fire) and BD wasn't even phased. That blast would be more powerful than anything Photon's got in the tank since it's not just energy but soul (the weakness of any demon)

7. Anything Kang could hack Querl could have a preparation for. Remember his ancestor from a thousand years before in the 20th Century (Vril Dox II) had a personal computer called Cilica that with the antiquated technology of that time could hack any technology. Vril was only a 10th level genius to Querl's 12th level and with 1000 years less technological advancement.

8. My point was that any small shadow in that state could become a vortex to the far side of the universe. he could instantly transport the entire enemy to the deep void where he would be supremely powerful. He simply moved the JLA from near destruction in deep space to Earth in a blink of an eye in Underworld unleashed, and warped the very fabric of the void to take out an alien armada. Not to mention had power over anyone who had any even slightly dark thought or feeling.

9. what exactly is there to stop Querl from countering anything of this type, since both have equal feats in time technology. Not to mention as I said Obsidian is etheral and therefore not going to be blocked by a force field (it could protect him if necessary but not protect from him) and he himself with the power of Ragnor can absorb time. Obsidian's own shadow form has in fact been a powerful and impenetrable force field that has withstood the powers of the entire JSA (in one ark he threw a barrier around the JSA brownstone with GL trying to break out from within while Lightning and Stargirl trying to breach from without). More testament to ther fact that Photon is going to do jack to him (since he's also taken full blasts from Silver Scarab and many others). Added to which BD also has power over time.

10.In case you haven't seen that I've covered it NO and NO. he's taken and tanked so many bandwiths and types of energy without problem. the Solar energy of Silver Scarab, the rainbow energy of chroma, electricity of Lightning, the starheart energy of both his Sister and Father, to name just a few.

nicely debated so far by the way.

good luck

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#17 Posted by emperorznb (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Could you give me some guys who Querl has cloaked from or sense the presence using his sensors who are in the same league as Classic Strange, Surfer, and Galactus? They may be on the same level but Surfer and Galactus should know Kang approaching since they manifest Cosmic Awareness. They are pretty much intact with the whole plane of existence and the power cosmic also comes from the astral planes so that means that Kang could hide himself from the nexus of all living energies. I agree 30th century Mordu is above Strange but I do not believe he is above the Time-Keepers. I mean having powers greater than a 16th dimension being.

  1. If he was the complete Void then he shouldn't be affected by anything. But it looks like he is still vulnerable to photonic attacks.. So as darkmatter energy. It is what would be used against Obsidian. Kang and his team would all be using the same type of energy to send Obsidian to the darkmatter dimension or constantly drain the nothingness out of him. Entities could still be hurt... they are not purely intangible. I mean Iceman blasted Oblivion down to his knees although there was a little bit of PIS there. Thanos held eternity at his hands. And all I'm saying is even complete emptiness can be stopped by freezing time. Kang would use his tech to freeze time and maybe transport Obsidian to another dimension where it is not connected to any reality of the multiverse existing in our battlefield like what Galactus and Herc did with Amatsu-Mikaboshi.
  2. Souls can also be hit. When Surfer went into the astral planes to fight something he couldn't beat in the physical world (didn't recall the name of the thing tho), he got blasted. He is not intangible but he did resist the attack since the astral planes are the seat of the Surfer's powers and the power cosmic is actually binded by soul and not by body. And you've only said that he can absorb souls. He is not just a soul, he is still human just embedded with powers due to his connection to the Shadowland. He just absorbs the dark energy or we might say evil souls to empower him. Like the Spectre who should be a ghost and an ethereal being but Black Adam has shown that he can pierce through Spectre. DOV Captain marvel withstood to an ethereal being who was at full rage. And if he is the Void then they shouldn't have made the attack land to him. Spirits are actually a special kind of energy which is apart from other types. It is made from ectoplasmic residual energies that comes from emotions or the thoughts of people who passed away who can still connect to the physical world through that type of energy. It is also energy so the force field may work for a long extent.
  3. And Kang could make his tech adapt to Querl's tech so that it wouldn't break those cloaks. And if that doesn't work then Kang could just hack Querl's tech disabling what he has with him including his telepathic ear plugs so Emma can use telepathy on Obsidian.
  4. Well as I've said, the Time Keepers has more power and jurisdiction further than the Living Tribunal's. Time Keeper's can also manipulate time at a colossal scale (where they can control time from the beginning to the end of it mostly that they also had power over the 80th century) and they had removed countless realities within seconds. Kang can also do what Time Trapper did. He can control time with his tech and be multiple places at once, travelling through it. While not mostly outside of time, he had created bases over countless realities. And Time Keeper's base is located on the final endpoint of all realities where there will no longer exists meaning that their base is located in a place without reality. Kang was able to breach it and break their shields off easily. And for one moment, Kang with all his accumulated chronokinetic powers threatened all of reality that the Time Keepers had to use their forever crystals to power up the chrono cannon and destroy him. Then the avengers and the Time Keepers further neutralized Kang by splitting him in two. The cannon was about to be fired but Kang had a backup plan by having Rick Jones access the destiny force and destroyed the chrono cannon. The next thing the Time Keepers knew is that they were enslaved by Akhenaten which was pretty much omnipotent. It is not known if Akhenaten was Kang or the Time Twisters but it can be said that Kang defeated the Time Keepers who have godlike tech and power.
  5. If that is Absorbium then Kang could just make that bomb vibrate a different frequency so that it would go to another timeline and explode.
  6. Hellfire is different from physical damage. He is not ethereal. He still has a physical connection to this world. Photon and Apollo would attack him using inertial impacts then maybe Slade can take off his earplugs. He can tank but the team already did that to him before he can think of his trident or before he can do anything with it. Then Emma could just mind control him and do whatever she thinks he can aide to the team.
  7. Kang has reinvented himself as the lord of limbo causing him to see and travel through any part of the timeline so I'm assuming that his tech is from the 31st century beyond since he is a guy with the brains who makes Doom envy his tech and also with his power to go into any timeline he wants, he must've have learned other tech from timelines beyond the 31st so I'd have to say Kang can hack into Querl's tech.
  8. Well Kang has stopped time and if Kang can give Slade his tech, then Slade would have reacted faster than Obsidian causing time to stop even the voids of space and time. Kang could easily BFR him by moving him to another timeline or by creating a device which can transport you to a dimension where it is unconnected to our reality as I've stated above. Kang could also go back in time to get dupes of his team mates when they are over powered and he can replace himself with one of his robots and he can sit comfortably anywhere without worrying the battle since his robots can think and act as cunningly as him when given the time to set up his robots.
  9. Obsidian can absorb time but Kang could stop times flow so there might be a divergence there. And as I've said as above, soul, empathy or whatever is also a form of energy. His force field can do the job. And it's not all about tanking it. It's also about reaction time. Slade can react faster than most of them so with Kang's tech, he could stop time before Obsidion can even do anything. Blue Devil can control time? I'm not aware of that but even if he does, he would also be taken out by the tactics slade, apollo, and photon are gonna do. Well, Kang himself has made an impenetrable force field that it was impossible to breach since it is currently adapting to the energy signals that they only have one shot at getting that right. And how powerful is Silver Scarab's blast? Photon can manipulate light. I know this was canon but it did show that Photon can absorb the light energy out of a Green Lantern's ring that was powered by emotions.
  10. How powerful was Silver Scarab's solar blasts? As I've said, Photon can manipulate light. She can change the frequency of what EM spectrum she decides. And Kang with his darkmatter ray owned Photon while she was energy form. And also, Souls or emotion are also energies. That's why in reality, we have the what we so call psychic vampires who drain you from your energy by sucking your positive emotions. Both emotion and soul are residual ectoplasmic energies. So there.

Nice debate with you too dude. Let's both do our bests xD

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#18 Posted by beatboks1 (8655 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorznb: Not going to indepth reply since Rain has called for voting.

Querl has cloaked from Time trapper (who can sense changes in the time line but Querl hid them from him), Mordru (who in the 30th century is more powerful than Classic Dr fate who is classic Stranges equal), and Darkseid (who also has cosmic awareness)

One point I missed out (which I thought i had in one of my posts. Is the potential use of the flight rings.They basically use will power to create an anti gravity field. Dream girl (who has limited power) has often used them to levitate other objects (like TK) and those given the rings could use them to take the weapons away from the enemy.

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#19 Posted by emperorznb (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Me too I'm kinda pooped xD

In my long post I had posted Kang easily destroying Time Keeper's shields who has godlike tech and can also see all the timelines from the beginning to the end of time, and Surfer and Galactus's awareness are a bit higher than Darkseid since their powers are derived from the astral planes.

The flight rings would be usurped since Kang still has magnetism and the complete control over the cobalt force.

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#20 Posted by BuckshotWasHere (19382 posts) - - Show Bio

Excellent thread guys. I think this is my favorite of the first round of battles, even including my own. I have to stay, when I started reading I saw Beatboks' prep and I thought it would seal the deal, then I was honestly a little let down by the actual strategy. emperorznb's post was stronger and I was going to give it to him, but the reversal of the time viewer made things interesting. It's really hard for me to call a winner and even as I write I'm not entirely sure who I'll pick, but you both did a good job. Also, I was glad that in those beginning posts I didn't see anything I'd consider a cheap abuse of time travel technology. You guys played with time in a civilized manner and, especially on the Kang side, one that was in character. You've both really impressed me.

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