Darth Vader vs Ventress& Darth Zannah

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darklord_apoc

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Edited By darklord_apoc

Poll Darth Vader vs Ventress& Darth Zannah (18 votes)

Darth Vader: no prep 56%
Ventress & Zannah: no prep 28%
Darth Vader: with prep 44%
Ventress & Zannah: with prep 44%

Round one is with no prep and a random encounter.... Who wins?

Round two is with a day prep for both Vader, and team Ventress & Darth Zannah...

You can vote more than once so for example if you think Vader wins with prep but loses without prep then you can vote more than once....

 • 
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#1  Edited By darklord_apoc

Bump

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Eisenfauste

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#2  Edited By Eisenfauste

Ventress and zannah would be facing a very skilled opponent here who has killed many competent jedi during the purges, although a number are featless the ease at which he defeats them shows his skill. I want to say with prep he could take this, zannah is a skilled sorcerer and ventress has stalemated anakin, obi-wan, and windu. All of whom are extremely skilled opponents, I say with prep vader takes this 7/10, without prep the duo could win 8/10 mainly because ventress could engage while zannah hangs back and kills him with sorcery.

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#3  Edited By darklord_apoc

Ventress and zannah would be facing a very skilled opponent here who has killed many competent jedi during the purges, although a number are featless the ease at which he defeats them shows his skill. I want to say with prep he could take this, zannah is a skilled sorcerer and ventress has stalemated anakin, obi-wan, and windu. All of whom are extremely skilled opponents, I say with prep vader takes this 7/10, without prep the duo could win 8/10 mainly because ventress could engage while zannah hangs back and kills him with sorcery.

When has Ventress stalemated Windu? Does Vader have defenses against sith sorcery?

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SSJDarthPlagueis

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#4  Edited By SSJDarthPlagueis

Vader is the superior duelist and force user however not too sure how he would do against sorcery? Diffidently with prep Vader wins.

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Can I get some feats for Zannah? I'm leaning towards the Dark Lord for a firm majority of wins.

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Eisenfauste

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@darklord_apoc: Whoops my bad, she didn't stalemate windu I think I was thinking about something else. As far as the comics go, and books, Vader doesn't know a thing about sorcery and wouldn't be able to counter what zannah is doing. She can make dark force energy wyrms that go through any physical object and can't be manipulated by the force unless one has a good knowledge of sorcery themselves, when zannah was facing Darth Bane he couldn't do anything about the dark force wyrms but dodge them, one of them ended up taking his arm off.

With prep though vader has the potential to win, assuming with this prep he gets knowledge of his foes, and during the start of the battle engages zannah directly so she can't stay back and use her powers against him.

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@phantomlantern8: Extremely potent sith sorcery, and a good amount of lightsaber dualing skills, but her main strength is in her sith sorcery which could easily kill vader if he is not careful.

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#8 JediXMan  Moderator

ventress has stalemated anakin, obi-wan, and windu.

I would hardly call boasting, then running away stalemating Mace Windu - especially when Mace was being casual the entire time, attempting to capture her, while Asajj voiced her desire to kill him.

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@jedixman: I know, but if you looked at my second comment I corrected myself after I double checked that issue, Windu is on a level above ventress.

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I say the team takes both rounds.

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#12  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

@jedixman: Though Ventress didn't stalemate Windu- didn't a source once state it took all of Mace's power to drive Ventress back?

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n

@jedixman said:
@eisenfauste said:

ventress has stalemated anakin, obi-wan, and windu.

I would hardly call boasting, then running away stalemating Mace Windu - especially when Mace was being casual the entire time, attempting to capture her, while Asajj voiced her desire to kill him.

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@jedixman: Did you know you are my baby daddy lol just kidding, but who do you think wins here and does Vader have any knowledge of sith sorcery? Can Vader speed blitz them both? What do you think will happen if they teamed up on Vader?

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#14  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

@eisenfauste:

If they play their chips right, they should take round one with minor difficaulty; Bane defensive telepathic feats are just as good as Vader's - if not better - and he was majorly affected by Zannah's sorcery, and to top it all of he was prepped for it.

If Ventress can hold Vader (which she can) while Zannah "charges" her sorcery, Vader is done for.

Round two- I would have to put more thought into.

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@dccomicsrule2011: I agree with you on that vader can be killed by sorcery, without prep he will lose round 1, but as to round 2, he has prep should include basic knowledge of the other team, so he will know to go for zannah first, and his agressive and unfamiliar style could best her, but he will also be facing ventress so its going to be a very difficult fight, I think he could pull a win 6/10 round 2.

Strategy for him to win would be to assault and kill zannah as quickly as possible with a mix of TK and his lightsaber style, then put all his effort into ventress to beat her.

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#16  Edited By ShootingNova

Mace was not being casual - Ventress was the one with the disinterested attitude, and sources have already told us Windu required all of his skill to repel Ventress:

Mace Windu had to use all his skills to defeat the dark side fighter Asajj Ventress

Source: The Official Star Wars Fact File 108

Yes, Ventress is certainly comparable to Windu in skill - based on the fact that she fights just about on par with Kenobi, and Skwalker has a Djem So advantage against her. And despite that, she still stalemated him on Yavin. Yes, that was only a padawan Anakin, but his speed feats still slightly eclipsed Windu's, and so did his strength feats, not to mention his skill at this point was sufficient to challenge Dooku, somebody on par with Windu. Every other time afterwards, Anakin had a form advantage (Djem So vs Makashi) borne of his strength which is superior to Windu anyways, and at this point had superior speed feats to Windu, along with approachable dueling skill.

Yes, Ventress can contend with Vader for at least some time, in which Zannah would have the ability to use Sorcery. Vader has TP resistance feats of his own, so whether her telepathic assaults would work is debatable. The Dark Side tendrils were summoned when she amped herself on Ambria, which afforded her the ability to summon them, so they shouldn't matter in this scenario either. The only other thing her Sorcery has done is cloak herself, which is useless in a fight unless Vader is completely oblivious to her from the onset, which is not happening here. Yes, the team can win - but it won't be easily cut out for them. With a day of prep, team 2 should win without too much trouble.

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#17  Edited By ShootingNova
@darklord_apoc said:
does Vader have any knowledge of sith sorcery?

He has never really confronted Sith Sorcery, but as a semi-Banite Sith he possesses archival and historical information which may have related information to him regarding Sith Sorcery, but I really don't think that would matter much here.

Can Vader speed blitz them both?

LOL. Not even close. Both of them are just about even with him in speed.

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@darklord_apoc said:
does Vader have any knowledge of sith sorcery?

He has never really confronted Sith Sorcery, but as a semi-Banite Sith he possesses archival and historical information which may have related information to him regarding Sith Sorcery, but I really don't think that would matter much here.

Can Vader speed blitz them both?

LOL. Not even close. Both of them are just about even with him in speed.

So you think Vader can win round one but lose round two?

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#20 JediXMan  Moderator

@jedixman: Though Ventress didn't stalemate Windu- didn't a source once state it took all of Mace's power to drive Ventress back?

No clue. But that scan seems pretty conclusive that Mace was stomping. Ventress was trying, while Mace was pretty casual.

It might be a different case, because I seem to recall them fighting another time, but I'm not positive.

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#21 JediXMan  Moderator

Can Vader speed blitz them both?

LOL. Not even close. Both of them are just about even with him in speed.


While I don't think Vader can speedblitz them, I do think he is the faster of the three - faster than Zannah, at any rate, who doesn't have a lot of speed feats (no, Set Harth does not count)

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Team

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If Zannah and Ventress were to take on Vader I would have thought that could have overwhelmed him.

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#24  Edited By ShootingNova
@jedixman said:

No clue. But that scan seems pretty conclusive that Mace was stomping. Ventress was trying, while Mace was pretty casual.

It might be a different case, because I seem to recall them fighting another time, but I'm not positive.

Nothing in the scan insinuates Ventress was trying any harder than Mace was. Ventress had been fighting with a rather disinterested attitude the entire time if you pay attention to context, while it was not so much the same for Windu.

Sources have outright stated he required everything Windu had to drive Ventress off. There was no stomp at all.

While I don't think Vader can speedblitz them, I do think he is the faster of the three - faster than Zannah, at any rate, who doesn't have a lot of speed feats (no, Set Harth does not count)

He is only negligibly faster than Ventress or Zannah, frankly. The two combined could press him - although he is fortunate that Zannah has never demonstrated any form of blade offensive ability. All of her attacking abilities seemed rather lackluster, which is something to be expected from a Soresu practitioner, but frankly I don't see her attacks bypassing Vader's guard at all. With Ventress at her side though, I say they would win in a duel.

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DarthAznable

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Vader murders. Zannah shouldn't even have beat Bane imo.

Then again Maul gave Vader a good run for his money and ALMOST defeated him.

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@jedixman said:

No clue. But that scan seems pretty conclusive that Mace was stomping. Ventress was trying, while Mace was pretty casual.

It might be a different case, because I seem to recall them fighting another time, but I'm not positive.

Nothing in the scan insinuates Ventress was trying any harder than Mace was. Ventress had been fighting with a rather disinterested attitude the entire time if you pay attention to context, while it was not so much the same for Windu.

Sources have outright stated he required everything Windu had to drive Ventress off. There was no stomp at all.

While I don't think Vader can speedblitz them, I do think he is the faster of the three - faster than Zannah, at any rate, who doesn't have a lot of speed feats (no, Set Harth does not count)

He is only negligibly faster than Ventress or Zannah, frankly. The two combined could press him - although he is fortunate that Zannah has never demonstrated any form of blade offensive ability. All of her attacking abilities seemed rather lackluster, which is something to be expected from a Soresu practitioner, but frankly I don't see her attacks bypassing Vader's guard at all. With Ventress at her side though, I say they would win in a duel.

Zannah was overly defensive and was really a one trick pony.

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Vader murders. Zannah shouldn't even have beat Bane imo.

Then again Maul gave Vader a good run for his money and ALMOST defeated him.

Vader is not murdering both at once. Ventress alone can challenge him, especially as a duelist.

Zannah was overly defensive

Because her form was the most defensive out of all the seven traditional ones.

and was really a one trick pony.

There was really no inconsistency. She's just a rather mediocre duelist.

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@shootingnova: Well she lost to Anakin near the end of Clone Wars and Vader is a lot stronger than he was during that time. He could use the force to keep Zannah back while dueling with Ventress. Even though he isn't as fast, his dueling is great. On the flip side Zannah could keep him at bay with her defense while Ventress makes up for Zannah's lack of offense. Either way Vader should win.

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#29  Edited By ShootingNova

@darthaznable: She has contended with Anakin well - and Anakin is faster than Vader, and much more agile.

Vader has more emotional control over himself, more durability, more telepathic ability, and more esoteric powers - but most of that isn't helping much in a fight. Furthermore, Vader is not a lot stronger than Anakin was.

In strength, Anakin has torn apart spider droids with his bare hands, struck against Ventress's blade hard enough to shatter stone beneath them, crushed the hand of a Magnaguard, thrown blows with the force of a meteor strike, etc. (no, that is not hyperbole, because it specifically states with the force, not the impact, of a meteor strike). Conversely, Vader has torn down crystalline pillars, slammed down people hard enough to shatter stone, torn doors off ships, etc. Yes, they are about even in this regard.

In speed, Anakin has fought fast enough to fill Count Dooku's entire line of vision with the light of his blade, encase himself with the light of his blade, generate afterimages/afterglows, fought fast enough to appear in multiple places at once, deflected blaster fire from miniature armies (which is both a feat of skill and speed), fought imperceptibly fast, dodged lightning, reacted to sub-light speed ships and so on. Vader has thrown his blade around his body to form a shield, deflected blaster fire from miniature armies, drawn his blade faster than thought, fought imperceptibly fast, moved faster than Obi-Wan (by Ferus's judgement, which may not be accurate), moved fast enough to seemingly vanish, etc. Vader has comparable speed, and has replicated a few of Anakin's feats ad verbum, but even so, Anakin has a few feats such as filling Count Dooku's entire line of vision with his blade's light, encasing himself with his blade's light and fighting fast enough to appear in several places at once which clearly indicate Anakin is faster. Agility is obviously in Anakin's favor - sources have already told us that Vader's cybernetic armor reduced his actions anyways.

Telekinetically, they are also about parallel. Anakin has moved Conqueror-class dreadnaughts, lifted and hurled boulders the size of huts, hurled Tusken Raiders thirty meters, manipulated platforms before his prime and still with little effort, thrown trees and tree branches, stomped Asajj Ventress with the Force, stomped Magnaguards with the Force, formed tornadoes of sand, and so forth. Vader has collapsed cathedrals, crushed massive droids, knocked down titanic trees, thrown around V-Wings, lifted and crushed massive tank-sized machines, crushed Jedi hearts, torn off parts of wall, ceilings, floor and other objects at a room to hurl at Ferus Olin, choked Olin into unconsciousness, thrown people several yards into a wall, torn apart platforms, hurled miniature armies with the Force, etc, so they are indeed rivals with one another in this category too. Force Scream is an involuntary power, but I might as well cover it anyways. Anakin has collapsed a thirty-meter tall and ninety-meter wide dome, while Vader has unleashed Force Screams that imploded droids, melted durasteel, cracked apartment walls, torn out parts of ceilings, etc. Anakin appears to have greater area of effect with his Force Scream, while Vader appears to have more potency when used against specific things. They should still be at least equal, or Anakin is ahead here.

In dueling skill, they are even. Anakin has fought evenly with Dooku (by means of Djem So, but the effects of Djem So are quite overrated), outfought Ventress, sparred evenly with Obi-Wan, outfought Cin Drallig, outfought Serra Keto, stalemated Obi-Wan on Mustafar while being hindered, casually slain Magnaguards, etc. Vader has outfought the Dark Woman, Celeste Morne, Roan Shryne, outfought multiple Jedi on Kessel, dueled evenly with Ben Kenobi, and so on, all up to and around the time surrounding ANH, which, while impressive, is not on Anakin's level, especially since sources have outright told us that at this point, Vader was a mere shadow of what he once was. By TESB, however, he not only outfought TESB Luke, but was listed as a far more formidable fighter than he was in ANH, with the RotJ novelization further stating that he was at his most powerful in RotJ, indicating improvement between TESB and RoTJ as well. So they are about even.

So really, Vader was not vastly more powerful, and he only possesses a few advantages which are less important in a fight. Furthermore, Anakin would win a majority of a fight between the two. So Ventress contending with Anakin consistently is not a low showing, it is evidence that she can contend with Vader.

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@darthaznable: Your point is a red herring, because I never said Ventress would beat Vader. I said she could contend with him, which she can. Vader is not stomping both her and Zannah - and furthermore, Ventress was fighting about evenly with Anakin on Yavin IV in spite of Djem So > Makashi, and has roughly stalemated him other times as well. Granted how Anakin is considerably faster than Vader, yes, that does mean she can fight as a near-equal to Vader. With Zannah at her side, she can outright defeat Vader in a duel. Force powers is another story.

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Vader senses zannah is the bigger threat. goes after her directly and throws ventress around with the force.

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@darthaznable: Well, it is kinda hard to tell on the internet :P