Darth Sidious (EU) vs Goku (Multiple Versions)

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Nessy3

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All battles are them going all out, and to the death. No planet busting allowed. Goku's power is based on the round number's specification.

1. Goku from the start of Dragonball.
2. Goku from the start of DBZ.
3. Goku from the end of the Frieza saga.
4. Goku SSJ2
5. Goku SSJ3
6. Goku SSJGSSJ

Who wins?

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gunsout

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#2  Edited By gunsout

Sidious get's stomped physically.

and @saren

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WF_Mxyzptlk

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1. Sidious

2. Sidious

3. Goku

4. Goku

5. Goku

6. Goku

3-6 are stomps of escalating degrees.

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gunsout

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#4  Edited By gunsout
@mrmxyzptlk said:

1. Sidious

2. Sidious

3. Goku

4. Goku

5. Goku

6. Goku

3-6 are stomps of escalating degrees.

Explain your logic @mrmxyzptlk, that EU Sidious can go up against a casual moon buster with severely greater speed, strength, durability and martial skill. I'll be waiting, I can wager that I know a lot about star wars than you as well.

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gunsout

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No infact, please explain why he doesn't get one-shotted instantly.

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Nessy3

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Sidious has more versatility and greater agility in fights. Goku's speed has him slowing down in the middle of fights, and his IT takes too long to concentrate and his travel speed isn't the speed he fights in. Also, there's a chance that a lightsaber instantly kills him. Also, he could possibly just get mind raped by Sidious.

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gunsout

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#7  Edited By gunsout

@nessy3 said:

Sidious has more versatility and greater agility in fights. Goku's speed has him slowing down in the middle of fights, and his IT takes too long to concentrate and his travel speed isn't the speed he fights in. Also, there's a chance that a lightsaber instantly kills him. Also, he could possibly just get mind raped by Sidious.

Nope. none of that is a possibility.

Let me put this in perspective. Goku, even his early dragonball incarnations, wouldn't be phased by 100 Palpetines. I don't know where you get the notion that Star Wars can compete with the likes of Dragonball. They'd get embarrassed physically, even by by lesser Anime characters.

Also, read what you write to avoid sounding like a ratard.

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kyrees

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Stryzzar

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Is this thread allowed?

Anyway, any version of Goku except for the first one would win. He has super strength, speed, chi detection, chi suppression. Sidious is a wreck who lost a lot of his life force at Mace Windu's hands. And what's a force user going to do against a kamehameha?

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cpt_nice

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Inb4 the lock.

Can defeat 1 and 2, gets stomped from 3 upward.

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traskindustries

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Sidious doesn't have KI, therefore Goku wouldn't see him as a threat in any situation, until it was too late. First 10 minutes he's going to blab about power levels, and then he will get mindraped by Sidious.

Sidious all rounds.

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gunsout

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#12  Edited By gunsout

@cpt_nice said:

Inb4 the lock.

Can defeat 1 and 2, gets stomped from 3 upward.

Explain yourself or GTFO. Seriously, in what wet dream is Sidious competing with the lowliest of dragonball characters?

We're talking about a guy who is only just maintaining a comfortable edge over Maul and Savage Opress physically.

Unless you think that they can fight Goku too?

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cpt_nice

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@gunsout: Politeness is not your strong suit I presume? Read up on EU Sidious before throwing a temper tantrum.

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never give up

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@cpt_nice said:

@gunsout: Politeness is not your strong suit I presume? Read up on EU Sidious before throwing a temper tantrum.

LMFAO

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RabumAlal

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@gunsout: I have a feeling we won't see you around in the forums for much longer.

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gunsout

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#17  Edited By gunsout

@cpt_nice: I have.

I'll go into detail; but firstly; tell me how sheev keeps up with Goku's speed and strength. I have a felling I know what the arguments will be.

Neverthelss, I'll be waiting.

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cpt_nice

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@gunsout: Why do you keep mentioning strength as if Sidious is gonna fist fight him?

Sidious has used telepathy to influence billions. Goku has no tp resistance. You do the math.

Furthermore, there is no real gap, unless you can prove Goku is massively faster than double digit hypersonic. Because that is S reaction time.

Goku's mind gets turned into jello.

At 3 and up he starts becoming too fast.

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gunsout

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#19  Edited By gunsout

@cpt_nice said:

Sidious has used telepathy to influence billions. Goku has no tp resistance. You do the math.

In regards to telepathy.

Sidious didn't just decide to wake up one day and mentally enslave a planet. His domination of Byss took time, a number of his dark-side adepts and his empire to build an ostentatiously costly and luxurious place of retreat.The inhabitants of Byss were actually immigrants flown in from neighboring star systems, their purpose was set in stone from the beginning. On the surface, surveillance and a heavy military presence was commonplace on Byss. Stormtroopers were stationed at every street corner and undercover Imperial Security Bureau agents were present at most of the planet's public areas to watch out for any potential traitors... and their were traitors, those who resisted Palpetine's domineering influence. So as it stands, Palpetine's TP isn't infallible, and normal humans can resist it given the willpower. On top of this, Byss was probably the most potent dark-side nexus in Star Wars lore, which would amplify palpetine's control over it.

Palpetine of course, can use telepathy on high level individuals in his own universe, but most of these aren't battle feats and are usually part of a plot for Galactic domination. Manipulating Anakin in ROTS and Luke temporarily in Dark Empire to turn to the darkside, but there were so many stipulations to these feats and more then one Legend source that states immersion in the Dark-Side must must must be a choice made by the individual. In that regard, they were merely influenced by Palpetine and not mindraped.

You could also challenge Sidious' proficiency with mind control further, by asking a few questions. Why was there ever resistance to him, especially when he knew who the leaders of the Rebellion were? Why was he ever challenged when he could just place the heads of every star system under his control? Why when faced with the very people who sparked the rebellion was he not able to extract the required information from them off the bat with telpathy? (54:48)...

Loading Video...

Of course, this isn't the first time non-force sensitives have resisted Palpetine's TP. On top of that, Sidious virtually never uses it in a 1 on 1 conflict. Really, what your saying is the thing that Sidious never resorts to, is what's going to help him win against a character that's so much better than him in every other way.

Sorry @cpt_nice, you're going to have to prove that Sidious is intrinsically better than him to win. Hax doesn't apply here.

Furthermore, there is no real gap, unless you can prove Goku is massively faster than double digit hypersonic. Because that is S reaction time.

Do your research on Goku now - because the gap is huge.

Here's my analysis on Palpetine's speed.

In short, the perception that Sheev can God-speed his way through Jedi, especially ones that are realistically in his physical range, comes from Revenge of the Sith (Mathew Stover). The instance of Anakin not being able to see Palpetine clearly, is spammed like an ejaculating steed in battles, but I don't think the quoter is are aware of the context surrounding Anakin, or how force assisted perception works. I've said this before.

Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade, that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once. The shadow he fought, that blur of speed—could that be Palpatine?

Revenge of the Sith

Firstly, force users perceive the the world outside of sight, and Anakin doesn't need to see someone to well enough to react to them with the Force, that's because it guides his actions and grants him a degree of clairvoyance to oncoming attacks. Kit Fisto is able to block a couple of Sidious' strikes through reaction speed alone, not skill; and he's certainly not better than Obi-Wan, let alone Anakin. Also, Shadow Conspiracy tells us Maul and Savage see Sidious fighting in the same light as Skywalker. Nonetheless, they're able to react to him separately and individually. All these sources tell us there's a difference between perceiving someone with eyesight, then through the Force, that much is clear.

Furthermore, this argument assumes that Jedi view the world in slow motion as a default setting, that's not the case, and when a Jedi is actively (or passively) using that power the writer tends to make it clear:

The dark side blossomed in Darth Maul, the power of it resonating in him like black lightning, augmenting his years of training, guiding his actions. Time seemed to slow, to stretch.

Darth Maul Shadow Hunter

Luke reached out. The Force was here, as it was everywhere, and it was no harder to touch deep in space than it was in the swamps on Dagobah. He let it fill him. The TIE fighters suddenly seemed to be moving slower. Luke’s hands flew over the controls; he moved the stick with sharp and precise movements. Swung to his starboard and lit the lasers, double-tapped the fire button.

Shadows of the Empire

On top of this, we're talking about an out-of-action Anakin, and one who was extremely conflicted between his personal decision to unveil Palpetine, and Padme's safety. This is the kind of emotional state that hinders force connection, and if there's any form of consistency to Revenge of the Sith, Annie should realistically be as hindered there as he was when fighting Obi-wan; unable to sense his master's presence approaching Mustafar, and unable to best him in a duel - despite being outright better then Kenobi.

No Caption Provided

On another note, Sidious doesn't stomp his opponents through raw-speed alone. Skill is equally, if not more important to his arsenal then just being faster; repeat after me - "such skill, such speed", in that order, because his skill level enabled him to exploit openings of the 3 Jedi above. Shadow Conspiracy highlights his skill against the Zabrak brothers in greater detail; that he was exploiting millimeter openings in their swordplay as well as their footing. In respective sources, skill is viewed as the crack in regards to saber fighting; The Phantom Menace tells us that Obi-Wan is faster then Qui-Gon, but the latter was clearly a better duelist:

But Obi-Wan, while not so experienced as Qui-Gon, was quicker. Anticipating each blow, he was able to elude his antagonist's efforts to bring him down.

The Phantom Menace

They had fought together before, and they knew each other's moves. Qui-Gon had trained Obi-Wan, and while the younger Jedi was not yet his equal, he believed that one day Obi-Wan would be better than he had ever been.

Source: The Phantom Menace

In this sense, being faster than Anakin can see doesn't make him lightspeed, nor does it even necessarily make him hypersonic.. Kid Goku has already outpaced a lightspeed attack, so that is the level Sidious has to be to compete with him.

@cpt_nice said:

@gunsout: Why do you keep mentioning strength as if Sidious is gonna fist fight him?

.

Yes, Palpetine has a tendency to humor people by dueling them with his saber. In which case, strength is vitally important. As it is, Palpetine probably can't survive the shockwave produced from one of Goku's punches. while goku can easily tank saber hits.

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deactivated-60fae469e992f

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3-6 are stomps of ever increasing degrees up until the point where goku could sit there and tank Sideous's attacks for days then kill him with a fingertap