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#1 Edited by Sci_Fi_Rulez (1234 posts) - - Show Bio

Using Film version of both Characters

No force powers just a Lightsaber battle,but have the same speed in the EU and Clone Wars series.

Battle Locations:Jedi Temple

Who wins?

vs

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#2 Posted by Trinity00 (3500 posts) - - Show Bio

4 arms>>>>>>>>>>two arms

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#3 Posted by k4tzm4n (40013 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
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#4 Posted by ShootingNova (23761 posts) - - Show Bio

Just lightsaber combat? Grievous shows superior ability.

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#5 Posted by terry2012 (9092 posts) - - Show Bio

Tough one here I will go with Dark Maul.

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#6 Edited by ShootingNova (23761 posts) - - Show Bio

@terry2012 said:

Tough one here I will go with Dark Maul.

How so? This is just a lightsaber duel, so remember that. Darth Maul isn't using Force Powers. Grievous has fought evenly with Mace Windu before.

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#7 Posted by terry2012 (9092 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: Yeah I know but he does have Dual lightsabers which can be very helpful against Grievous. Griervous does has four while Maul has two. I don't know who has speed on there side. Grievous did had trouble with with Obi Wan Kenobi who only had one lightsaber and lost two of his hands right from the start of the battle. It wasn't even at the half way into the battle. Maul had no trouble with Obi Wan Kenobi and Qui Gon Jinn. He lost because he start playing with Obi Wan Kenobi, thought it was over than drop his guard and left an opening. Grievous was train by Count Dooku and Maul was train by Dark Sidous. This is the Movie version of both characters which Maul is better than Grievous.

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#8 Posted by ShootingNova (23761 posts) - - Show Bio

@terry2012 said:

@ShootingNova: Yeah I know but he does have Dual lightsabers which can be very helpful against Grievous. Griervous does has four while Maul has two. I don't know who has speed on there side. Grievous did had trouble with with Obi Wan Kenobi who only had one lightsaber and lost two of his hands right from the start of the battle. It wasn't even at the half way into the battle. Maul had no trouble with Obi Wan Kenobi and Qui Gon Jinn. He lost because he start playing with Obi Wan Kenobi, thought it was over than drop his guard and left an opening. Grievous was train by Count Dooku and Maul was train by Dark Sidous. This is the Movie version of both characters which Maul is better than Grievous.

Grievous can change his blades into double-blades, and the fact that he has a double-blade actually limits him more than helps him, if Grievous can exploit its weakness. Maul had no trouble with padawan Kenobi, Grievous fought against Master Kenobi. Maul couldn't defeat Master Kenobi until he taunted him to make him use an aggressive form (he is mainly defensive) and Grievous fought him while he was using Form III. Grievous was trained in the seven lightsaber forms, and has a superior mastery of Niman/Jar'kai than Maul does. Maul is trained to fight with Forms VII and sometimes VI, but Grievous can fight with all the forms, their Niman/Jar'Kai counterparts, and with the Unorthodox.

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#9 Posted by JediWaffles (757 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd give it to Grievous, despite quite a poor showing (for his standards) in the movie. As it's a purely lightsaber battle, Maul doesn't have the Force to amp up his speed and strength, while Grievous is well-versed in lightsaber battle without the Force. This gives Grievous the upper hand in terms of strength,speed, and reflexes. So i say it goes to him.

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#10 Posted by ShootingNova (23761 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediWaffles said:

I'd give it to Grievous, despite quite a poor showing (for his standards) in the movie. As it's a purely lightsaber battle, Maul doesn't have the Force to amp up his speed and strength, while Grievous is well-versed in lightsaber battle without the Force. This gives Grievous the upper hand in terms of strength,speed, and reflexes. So i say it goes to him.

Given his superior knowledge of lightsaber combat, he should take this. I'm assuming that since the OP notified it as movie variants, this will be EP3 Grievous vs EP1 Darth Maul.

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#11 Edited by terry2012 (9092 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: It took one jedi just to beat Grievous and two just to beat Maul. That said a whole a lot. Maul could defeat Master Kenobi in fact he did. Kenobi only won by PIS and WIS because he was beating already. I glad you brought up the fact that he had to use the aggressive part. That prove that Kenobi had to use some of the dark side power in order to try to beat Maul. Maul outclass both of them and was clearly a league above them. Train in that many forms doesn't grant you the victory. Knowing Grievous he probably didn't keep up his training in those forms nor did he polish them up. Grievous lost two of his hand right off the back. Obi Wan Kenobi only knows how many forms? Does Anakin Know Niman/Jar'kai? If he did it did not get him anywhere with Dooku. It is not how many forms you have but how skill you are with them.

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#12 Edited by ShootingNova (23761 posts) - - Show Bio

@terry2012 said:

@ShootingNova: It took one jedi just to beat Grievous and two just to beat Maul. That said a whole a lot. Maul could defeat Master Kenobi in fact he did. Kenobi only won by PIS and WIS because he was beating already. I glad you brought up the fact that he had to use the aggressive part. That prove that Kenobi had to use some of the darkside power in order to try to beat Maul. Maul outclass both of them and was clearly a league above them. Train in that many forms doesn't grant you the victory. Knowing Grievous he probably didn't keep up his training in those forms nor did he polish them up. Grievous lost two of his hand right off the back. Obi Wan Kenobi only knows how many forms? Does Anakin Know Niman/Jar'kai? If he did it did not get him anywhere with Dooku. It not how forms you have but how skill you are with them.

It took a fully skilled Jedi Master (and the greatest master of Soresu) to defeat Grievous. Maul defeated a padawan and a Jedi Master beyond his prime who is not as powerful as Master Kenobi, not to mention that Maul had numerous advantages over Qui-Gon at that point. No it didn't prove a thing, Obi-Wan was quite successful while being defensive my friend, it is how he wins. It doesn't grant victory, I never said it did, but I grants advantages, and the element of surprise. Obi-Wan knows all the forms, but does not use the second and seventh ones. Anakin didn't get anywhere because Dooku was far more experienced and had knowledge of Jar'Kai previously. Grievous is skilled in all the forms, Maul is in two.

Also, I wouldn't say he got nowhere, they were both fighting so fast they were generating afterimages.

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#13 Posted by terry2012 (9092 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: He was not fully skilled. The only advantages he had is that they didn't know him nor know how he fights. Yes it did prove something and I'm not being defensive my friend. Obi Wan was quite successful, yes he was quite successful at use the dark force which a jedi is not supposed to do. Having the advantages means nothing and having the element of suprise proves that he can not take him heads up in a battle without a few tricks. Yes I would say he got nowhere because Dooku was more experienced like you said, Anakin was outclass in that form. He got nowhere because Dooku knew more than Anakin did. You can not defeat someone who knows it better than you do. It is one of reasons why I said he got nowhere. Remember it is what you know and how you use it. Generating afterimages means nothing if both can do it, so it doesn't help. Dooku was toying with them.

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#14 Posted by AmazingScrewOnHead (785 posts) - - Show Bio

Movies- Darth maul

EU- Greivous

Darth maul was more skilled than obi and qui-gon, obi wan as always cannot finish a fight without cheating. Greivous was alot weaker and slower in the movies while in the EU he was an unstoppable killing machine taking on large groups of jedi and winning flawlessly.

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#15 Posted by justleader (1741 posts) - - Show Bio

darth maul curbstomps

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#16 Posted by terry2012 (9092 posts) - - Show Bio

@AmazingScrewOnHead: Thank you. They seem to forget that this is the movie version we are talking about here. Grievous lost two of his hands rigth off the back and it wasn't even an mintue into the fight.

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#17 Posted by The_Thunderer (3120 posts) - - Show Bio

@justleader: no, i don't think so Grievous is faster and stronger and more used to fighting without the force..

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#18 Posted by Nox_Arc (221 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@terry2012 said:

Tough one here I will go with Dark Maul.

How so? This is just a lightsaber duel, so remember that. Darth Maul isn't using Force Powers. Grievous has fought evenly with Mace Windu before.

When has Grievous ever fought Windu in the films? Sounds like EU or novel work to me.

Regardless, I see Grievous coming out the victor here. The additional sabers will give him an advantage, he's arguably as fast or even faster and far more aggressive which could be beneficial for him.

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#19 Posted by terry2012 (9092 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nox_Arc: Do you know that this is the movie version which Maul had better showing than Grievous did.

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#20 Posted by Trinity00 (3500 posts) - - Show Bio

Grievous shoots him.

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#21 Posted by justleader (1741 posts) - - Show Bio

how the hell is grevious better than maul? maul was fighting obi wan and qui gon at the same time while grevious is a big coward who despite havinh 4 or 6 hands still runs from the fight and alwasys has something to run away. and toy know what he lost to obi wan though in ep3

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#22 Posted by Morgan_Freeman (42 posts) - - Show Bio

After recently watching both episode 1 and episode 3 of the Star Wars series, I have come to opinion that Darth Maul is a better lightsaber fighter, but of course I am by no means absolute in my theories.

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#23 Posted by justleader (1741 posts) - - Show Bio

darth maul doesnt appear in ep3

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#24 Posted by G1d3on (199 posts) - - Show Bio

If Grievous’s feats in the micro-series were weighted evenly with the rest, I’d be inclined to give him the win. Old!Grievous was a master of all seven forms of lightsaber combat thanks to instruction from Count Dooku and the analytic computers slaved to his brain, to such an extent that he could assess and offer a pale imitation of Mace Windu’s Vaapad, legendary for its difficulty and unpredictability (Labyrinth of Evil). Old!Grievous was capable of moving both limbs and body faster than any human to such an extent that Obi-Wan Kenobi was hopelessly outmatched until he experienced a moment of unity with the Force itself; I believe the figure was around twenty-eight strikes per second between all four hands (Revenge of the Sith novelization).

New!Grievous, on the other hand, is little more than a very strong, very fast thug with a lightsaber. Dave Filoni, mouthpiece for George Lucas with respect to the new Clone Wars TV show and its supervising director, claims that the micro-series was very hyperbolic when it came to General Grievous and that the level of skill the cyborg demonstrated was not realistic, which is what the new show conveys. New!Grievous is a wily fighter who enjoys, for the most part, an advantage in strength, speed, and durability, but not nearly to the extent he used to; in the series, he is overpowered by Kit Fisto, routinely beaten by Obi-Wan Kenobi (though it must be said that Kenobi’s advantage is only slight), held off by Adi Gallia, and was defeated by Ventress in their latest duel.

Maul, on the other hand, is a practitioner of Juyo, which requires him to be a high end master of multiple forms (Fight Saber) and is among the deadliest Sith apprentices in history (The Ultimate Visual Guide). I would say without active Force use the fight becomes longer and more complicated, but Maul has an advantage in skill and the aggression of the dark side to bring to bear, which is what Ventress used to overcome Grievous in “Massacre.”

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#25 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21617 posts) - - Show Bio

Movie version Maul wins easily.

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#26 Posted by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio
@G1d3on
Yeah in EU and Movies (more so Movies) I would take Maul over Grievious. Grievous cant even best Dooku in Saber combat yet pwns 5 Jedi at a time! Whatever.
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#27 Posted by mightyzeus (171 posts) - - Show Bio

not only greavious cant beat doku but he is trained by him and lets face the facts here darth maul gave a hard time to obi wan and qui gon and he even managed to kill him while grecious couldnt take obi wan although he was more powerful then but still not as powerful as qui gon

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#28 Posted by AmazingScrewOnHead (785 posts) - - Show Bio

Obi wan is a terrible jedi, Hes always hanging on for dear life (quite litreally) at the end of his duels desperatly looking for a nearby weapon, Greivous overpowered and outmatched him as did maul.

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#29 Edited by Silver2467 (16987 posts) - - Show Bio
@G1d3on said: 

New!Grievous, on the other hand, is little more than a very strong, very fast thug with a lightsaber. Dave Filoni, mouthpiece for George Lucas with respect to the new Clone Wars TV show and its supervising director, claims that the micro-series was very hyperbolic when it came to General Grievous and that the level of skill the cyborg demonstrated was not realistic, which is what the new show conveys. New!Grievous is a wily fighter who enjoys, for the most part, an advantage in strength, speed, and durability, but not nearly to the extent he used to; in the series, he is overpowered by Kit Fisto, routinely beaten by Obi-Wan Kenobi (though it must be said that Kenobi’s advantage is only slight), held off by Adi Gallia, and was defeated by Ventress in their latest duel.

In fairness, Fisto by all accounts should defeat Grievous due to Shii-Cho. It serves as an ideal form to counter Grievous' preferred style. To an extent, I also do agree with the assessment that Grievous' performance in CW was exaggerated, as well as inconsistent for that matter. With that said, yes, his portrayal in TCW is less than accurate. He killed Adi Gallia with absolute ease in Obsession, and his record for engaging notable fighters, such as Mace Windu and Count Dooku, is well documented. He fought equally with Mace in Labyrinth, and while he routinely loses to Dooku, the latter privately mused about the challenge Grievous poses to him. In that same novel, Grievous also casually beat four Jedi (who, albeit, were not especially formidable). Beyond that, there is also the list of kills Grievous amassed in Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous, which included a thorough list of several victories and a mention of his slaughtering over 100 Jedi in total, and we also have his showings in the General Grievous miniseries where he again overwhelmed multiple Jedi. 

In short: TCW disregards continuity, but then again, everyone already knows that.
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#30 Posted by kingkronos (2532 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't general grevious just a robot? On the other hand, maul is a powerful sith who knows how to fight with a lightsaber very well

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#31 Posted by Trinity00 (3500 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingkronos said:

Isn't general grevious just a robot? On the other hand, maul is a powerful sith who knows how to fight with a lightsaber very well

Grievous shoots him, WIN!

Loading Video...
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#32 Posted by kingkronos (2532 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah very funny, except I don't understand your joke.....

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#33 Posted by G1d3on (199 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

@G1d3on said:

New!Grievous, on the other hand, is little more than a very strong, very fast thug with a lightsaber. Dave Filoni, mouthpiece for George Lucas with respect to the new Clone Wars TV show and its supervising director, claims that the micro-series was very hyperbolic when it came to General Grievous and that the level of skill the cyborg demonstrated was not realistic, which is what the new show conveys. New!Grievous is a wily fighter who enjoys, for the most part, an advantage in strength, speed, and durability, but not nearly to the extent he used to; in the series, he is overpowered by Kit Fisto, routinely beaten by Obi-Wan Kenobi (though it must be said that Kenobi’s advantage is only slight), held off by Adi Gallia, and was defeated by Ventress in their latest duel.

In fairness, Fisto by all accounts should defeat Grievous due to Shii-Cho. It serves as an ideal form to counter Grievous' preferred style. To an extent, I also do agree with the assessment that Grievous' performance in CW was exaggerated, as well as inconsistent for that matter. With that said, yes, his portrayal in TCW is less than accurate. He killed Adi Gallia with absolute ease in Obsession, and his record for engaging notable fighters, such as Mace Windu and Count Dooku, is well documented. He fought equally with Mace in Labyrinth, and while he routinely loses to Dooku, the latter privately mused about the challenge Grievous poses to him. In that same novel, Grievous also casually beat four Jedi (who, albeit, were not especially formidable). Beyond that, there is also the list of kills Grievous amassed in Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous, which included a thorough list of several victories and a mention of his slaughtering over 100 Jedi in total, and we also have his showings in the General Grievous miniseries where he again overwhelmed multiple Jedi. In short: TCW disregards continuity, but then again, everyone already knows that.

Lucas & Filoni definitely disregard extant EU in order to facilitate George’s personal vision for Grievous—one of a moderately dangerous coward. The problem is that the new series outranks everything but the movies. Some discrepancies between the EU and the films are easily reconciled by mere differences in medium; but Filoni has gone out of his way to emphasize that earlier depictions of Grievous are inaccurate. I assume, then, that we can’t exactly rely on his previous showings (with the exception of what we see in the ROTS novelization, since per Stover, it was line-edited by Lucas) to paint a realistic portrait of Grievous.

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#34 Posted by Sci_Fi_Rulez (1234 posts) - - Show Bio

@terry2012 said:

@ShootingNova: Yeah I know but he does have Dual lightsabers which can be very helpful against Grievous. Griervous does has four while Maul has two. I don't know who has speed on there side. Grievous did had trouble with with Obi Wan Kenobi who only had one lightsaber and lost two of his hands right from the start of the battle. It wasn't even at the half way into the battle. Maul had no trouble with Obi Wan Kenobi and Qui Gon Jinn. He lost because he start playing with Obi Wan Kenobi, thought it was over than drop his guard and left an opening. Grievous was train by Count Dooku and Maul was train by Dark Sidous. This is the Movie version of both characters which Maul is better than Grievous.

Agreed.Grievous lost two of his hands in the first few seconds of the battle with obi wan,While Maul was keeping up with a jedi and a jedi master.Also i agree with second part too.Darth maul was train by Sidious while Grievous was train by Dooku,But the four arms does give him some advantage..

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#35 Posted by Sci_Fi_Rulez (1234 posts) - - Show Bio
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#36 Posted by Silver2467 (16987 posts) - - Show Bio
@G1d3on said:

@Silver2467 said:

@G1d3on said:

New!Grievous, on the other hand, is little more than a very strong, very fast thug with a lightsaber. Dave Filoni, mouthpiece for George Lucas with respect to the new Clone Wars TV show and its supervising director, claims that the micro-series was very hyperbolic when it came to General Grievous and that the level of skill the cyborg demonstrated was not realistic, which is what the new show conveys. New!Grievous is a wily fighter who enjoys, for the most part, an advantage in strength, speed, and durability, but not nearly to the extent he used to; in the series, he is overpowered by Kit Fisto, routinely beaten by Obi-Wan Kenobi (though it must be said that Kenobi’s advantage is only slight), held off by Adi Gallia, and was defeated by Ventress in their latest duel.

In fairness, Fisto by all accounts should defeat Grievous due to Shii-Cho. It serves as an ideal form to counter Grievous' preferred style. To an extent, I also do agree with the assessment that Grievous' performance in CW was exaggerated, as well as inconsistent for that matter. With that said, yes, his portrayal in TCW is less than accurate. He killed Adi Gallia with absolute ease in Obsession, and his record for engaging notable fighters, such as Mace Windu and Count Dooku, is well documented. He fought equally with Mace in Labyrinth, and while he routinely loses to Dooku, the latter privately mused about the challenge Grievous poses to him. In that same novel, Grievous also casually beat four Jedi (who, albeit, were not especially formidable). Beyond that, there is also the list of kills Grievous amassed in Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous, which included a thorough list of several victories and a mention of his slaughtering over 100 Jedi in total, and we also have his showings in the General Grievous miniseries where he again overwhelmed multiple Jedi. In short: TCW disregards continuity, but then again, everyone already knows that.

Lucas & Filoni definitely disregard extant EU in order to facilitate George’s personal vision for Grievous—one of a moderately dangerous coward. The problem is that the new series outranks everything but the movies. Some discrepancies between the EU and the films are easily reconciled by mere differences in medium; but Filoni has gone out of his way to emphasize that earlier depictions of Grievous are inaccurate. I assume, then, that we can’t exactly rely on his previous showings (with the exception of what we see in the ROTS novelization, since per Stover, it was line-edited by Lucas) to paint a realistic portrait of Grievous.

It doesn't outrank the original Clone Wars show, as that falls under the same T-Canon class. More than that, Filoni's statements are not rendered canon, and his word does not retcon previous sources. The show itself can and has retconned previous works but not the producer's statements. Grievous' portrayal in the show not eliminating other stories from continuity by extension can't undo his display in those stories unless they were to directly remove them from continuity. All it actually does is render the character inconsistent rather than establish a definitive standard for him.
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#37 Posted by rolldestroyer (3544 posts) - - Show Bio

darth maul wins this easily grevious is a coward

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#38 Posted by Sci_Fi_Rulez (1234 posts) - - Show Bio

@Trinity00 said:

@kingkronos said:

Isn't general grevious just a robot? On the other hand, maul is a powerful sith who knows how to fight with a lightsaber very well

Grievous shoots him, WIN!

Loading Video...

How does this vid prove that Grievous will beat Maul?..

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#39 Posted by Silver2467 (16987 posts) - - Show Bio

For the record, the arguments in this thread are just riveting. Lowballing characters to make a point? That's obviously the logical way to give a consensus...

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#40 Posted by Ghostalt (367 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sci_Fi_Rulez said:

@Trinity00 said:

@kingkronos said:

Isn't general grevious just a robot? On the other hand, maul is a powerful sith who knows how to fight with a lightsaber very well

Grievous shoots him, WIN!

Loading Video...

How does this vid prove that Grievous will beat Maul?..

He has a gun, he can shoot maul.

well that's what I think she means.

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#41 Posted by G1d3on (199 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

@G1d3on said:

@Silver2467 said:

@G1d3on said:

New!Grievous, on the other hand, is little more than a very strong, very fast thug with a lightsaber. Dave Filoni, mouthpiece for George Lucas with respect to the new Clone Wars TV show and its supervising director, claims that the micro-series was very hyperbolic when it came to General Grievous and that the level of skill the cyborg demonstrated was not realistic, which is what the new show conveys. New!Grievous is a wily fighter who enjoys, for the most part, an advantage in strength, speed, and durability, but not nearly to the extent he used to; in the series, he is overpowered by Kit Fisto, routinely beaten by Obi-Wan Kenobi (though it must be said that Kenobi’s advantage is only slight), held off by Adi Gallia, and was defeated by Ventress in their latest duel.

In fairness, Fisto by all accounts should defeat Grievous due to Shii-Cho. It serves as an ideal form to counter Grievous' preferred style. To an extent, I also do agree with the assessment that Grievous' performance in CW was exaggerated, as well as inconsistent for that matter. With that said, yes, his portrayal in TCW is less than accurate. He killed Adi Gallia with absolute ease in Obsession, and his record for engaging notable fighters, such as Mace Windu and Count Dooku, is well documented. He fought equally with Mace in Labyrinth, and while he routinely loses to Dooku, the latter privately mused about the challenge Grievous poses to him. In that same novel, Grievous also casually beat four Jedi (who, albeit, were not especially formidable). Beyond that, there is also the list of kills Grievous amassed in Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous, which included a thorough list of several victories and a mention of his slaughtering over 100 Jedi in total, and we also have his showings in the General Grievous miniseries where he again overwhelmed multiple Jedi. In short: TCW disregards continuity, but then again, everyone already knows that.

Lucas & Filoni definitely disregard extant EU in order to facilitate George’s personal vision for Grievous—one of a moderately dangerous coward. The problem is that the new series outranks everything but the movies. Some discrepancies between the EU and the films are easily reconciled by mere differences in medium; but Filoni has gone out of his way to emphasize that earlier depictions of Grievous are inaccurate. I assume, then, that we can’t exactly rely on his previous showings (with the exception of what we see in the ROTS novelization, since per Stover, it was line-edited by Lucas) to paint a realistic portrait of Grievous.

It doesn't outrank the original Clone Wars show, as that falls under the same T-Canon class. More than that, Filoni's statements are not rendered canon, and his word does not retcon previous sources. The show itself can and has retconned previous works but not the producer's statements. Grievous' portrayal in the show not eliminating other stories from continuity by extension can't undo his display in those stories unless they were to directly remove them from continuity. All it actually does is render the character inconsistent rather than establish a definitive standard for him.

The events themselves need not be removed from continuity in order for the feats within to be retconned; Filoni’s proposed rationalization for the Battle of Dantooine, as an example, was that while Windu probably defeated the droids, he likely did so in a way beyond obliterating hordes of them barehanded.

But you’re right: Filoni himself does not constitute a G-canon source. On the other hand, given his placement to George and the degree of creative control he exercises over the series, I lend him credibility on par with Leland Chee, Howard Hoffman, and the recently resigned Sue Rostini. The fact that they post his commentary on the various episodes of The Clone Wars wherein his words extend as much to plot as they do to the actual technical aspects leads me to believe that they’re not to be taken lightly, especially since they mesh well with George’s own thoughts on Grievous in the Revenge of the Sith commentary.

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#42 Posted by Masterr (195 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@terry2012 said:

@ShootingNova: Yeah I know but he does have Dual lightsabers which can be very helpful against Grievous. Griervous does has four while Maul has two. I don't know who has speed on there side. Grievous did had trouble with with Obi Wan Kenobi who only had one lightsaber and lost two of his hands right from the start of the battle. It wasn't even at the half way into the battle. Maul had no trouble with Obi Wan Kenobi and Qui Gon Jinn. He lost because he start playing with Obi Wan Kenobi, thought it was over than drop his guard and left an opening. Grievous was train by Count Dooku and Maul was train by Dark Sidous. This is the Movie version of both characters which Maul is better than Grievous.

Grievous can change his blades into double-blades, and the fact that he has a double-blade actually limits him more than helps him, if Grievous can exploit its weakness. Maul had no trouble with padawan Kenobi, Grievous fought against Master Kenobi. Maul couldn't defeat Master Kenobi until he taunted him to make him use an aggressive form (he is mainly defensive) and Grievous fought him while he was using Form III. Grievous was trained in the seven lightsaber forms, and has a superior mastery of Niman/Jar'kai than Maul does. Maul is trained to fight with Forms VII and sometimes VI, but Grievous can fight with all the forms, their Niman/Jar'Kai counterparts, and with the Unorthodox.

When did he show that in the live action movies?

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#43 Posted by Silver2467 (16987 posts) - - Show Bio
@G1d3on said: 

The events themselves need not be removed from continuity in order for the feats within to be retconned; Filoni’s proposed rationalization for the Battle of Dantooine, as an example, was that while Windu probably defeated the droids, he likely did so in a way beyond obliterating hordes of them barehanded.

But you’re right: Filoni himself does not constitute a G-canon source. On the other hand, given his placement to George and the degree of creative control he exercises over the series, I lend him credibility on par with Leland Chee, Howard Hoffman, and the recently resigned Sue Rostini. The fact that they post his commentary on the various episodes of The Clone Wars wherein his words extend as much to plot as they do to the actual technical aspects leads me to believe that they’re not to be taken lightly, especially since they mesh well with George’s own thoughts on Grievous in the Revenge of the Sith commentary.

And your thesis makes sense. But then the only way for me to respond to this additionally is for me to point out the obvious continuity errors prevalent in TCW, and there is just no purpose or mandate for that.

All I can say is that there is a reason I pick and choose what to acknowledge with TCW: Because TCW picks and chooses what it wants to acknowledge from the rest of the EU. As a result, I pay no credence to inaccurate portrayals that come from it. Do others have to do the same? No. If people want to recognize what TCW establishes, they can do that, because it is a canon source. Personally, I just prefer to leave it alone.
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#44 Posted by ShootingNova (23761 posts) - - Show Bio

@terry2012 said:

@ShootingNova: He was not fully skilled. The only advantages he had is that they didn't know him nor know how he fights. Yes it did prove something and I'm not being defensive my friend. Obi Wan was quite successful, yes he was quite successful at use the dark force which a jedi is not supposed to do. Having the advantages means nothing and having the element of suprise proves that he can not take him heads up in a battle without a few tricks. Yes I would say he got nowhere because Dooku was more experienced like you said, Anakin was outclass in that form. He got nowhere because Dooku knew more than Anakin did. You can not defeat someone who knows it better than you do. It is one of reasons why I said he got nowhere. Remember it is what you know and how you use it. Generating afterimages means nothing if both can do it, so it doesn't help. Dooku was toying with them.

The advantages were also that Qui-Gon, being 60, lacked the physical strength and ability required for his form, plus the cramped area stuffed up his form further. It hampered his techniques. The same for Obi-Wan, yet Obi was partially successful in applying Sun Djem on Maul.

Exactly, Dooku knew more than Anakin, Grievous knows more than Maul. He knows the lightsaber forms (most of them) better than Maul does.

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#45 Posted by Trinity00 (3500 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@terry2012 said:

@ShootingNova: He was not fully skilled. The only advantages he had is that they didn't know him nor know how he fights. Yes it did prove something and I'm not being defensive my friend. Obi Wan was quite successful, yes he was quite successful at use the dark force which a jedi is not supposed to do. Having the advantages means nothing and having the element of suprise proves that he can not take him heads up in a battle without a few tricks. Yes I would say he got nowhere because Dooku was more experienced like you said, Anakin was outclass in that form. He got nowhere because Dooku knew more than Anakin did. You can not defeat someone who knows it better than you do. It is one of reasons why I said he got nowhere. Remember it is what you know and how you use it. Generating afterimages means nothing if both can do it, so it doesn't help. Dooku was toying with them.

The advantages were also that Qui-Gon, being 60, lacked the physical strength and ability required for his form, plus the cramped area stuffed up his form further. It hampered his techniques. The same for Obi-Wan, yet Obi was partially successful in applying Sun Djem on Maul.

Exactly, Dooku knew more than Anakin, Grievous knows more than Maul. He knows the lightsaber forms (most of them) better than Maul does.

This ^

Maul is overrated he took down a jedi master who wasn't at his peak, in the citadel Grievous killed two jedi masters at their peak.

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#46 Posted by ShootingNova (23761 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sci_Fi_Rulez said:

@terry2012 said:

@ShootingNova: Yeah I know but he does have Dual lightsabers which can be very helpful against Grievous. Griervous does has four while Maul has two. I don't know who has speed on there side. Grievous did had trouble with with Obi Wan Kenobi who only had one lightsaber and lost two of his hands right from the start of the battle. It wasn't even at the half way into the battle. Maul had no trouble with Obi Wan Kenobi and Qui Gon Jinn. He lost because he start playing with Obi Wan Kenobi, thought it was over than drop his guard and left an opening. Grievous was train by Count Dooku and Maul was train by Dark Sidous. This is the Movie version of both characters which Maul is better than Grievous.

Agreed.Grievous lost two of his hands in the first few seconds of the battle with obi wan,While Maul was keeping up with a jedi and a jedi master.Also i agree with second part too.Darth maul was train by Sidious while Grievous was train by Dooku,But the four arms does give him some advantage..

No. Look at my previous post to see how many advantages Maul had, not to mention the surprise with the Double-Bladed lightsaber. Grievous fought a Kenobi with far greater experience and skill than either of Qui-Gon or padawan Kenobi.

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#47 Posted by ShootingNova (23761 posts) - - Show Bio

@Masterr said:

@ShootingNova said:

@terry2012 said:

@ShootingNova: Yeah I know but he does have Dual lightsabers which can be very helpful against Grievous. Griervous does has four while Maul has two. I don't know who has speed on there side. Grievous did had trouble with with Obi Wan Kenobi who only had one lightsaber and lost two of his hands right from the start of the battle. It wasn't even at the half way into the battle. Maul had no trouble with Obi Wan Kenobi and Qui Gon Jinn. He lost because he start playing with Obi Wan Kenobi, thought it was over than drop his guard and left an opening. Grievous was train by Count Dooku and Maul was train by Dark Sidous. This is the Movie version of both characters which Maul is better than Grievous.

Grievous can change his blades into double-blades, and the fact that he has a double-blade actually limits him more than helps him, if Grievous can exploit its weakness. Maul had no trouble with padawan Kenobi, Grievous fought against Master Kenobi. Maul couldn't defeat Master Kenobi until he taunted him to make him use an aggressive form (he is mainly defensive) and Grievous fought him while he was using Form III. Grievous was trained in the seven lightsaber forms, and has a superior mastery of Niman/Jar'kai than Maul does. Maul is trained to fight with Forms VII and sometimes VI, but Grievous can fight with all the forms, their Niman/Jar'Kai counterparts, and with the Unorthodox.

When did he show that in the live action movies?

Scrap that then. He already knows about Double-Blades anyways, so Maul does not have the element of surprise. Read Darth Bane: POD, and you will realize that without its surprise, the double-bladed saber is actually more limited than the traditional one.

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#48 Posted by Blacklightning13 (937 posts) - - Show Bio

Grievous 6/10. Or:

@Trinity00 said:

Grievous shoots him.

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#49 Posted by Silver2467 (16987 posts) - - Show Bio
@ShootingNova said: 

Qui-Gon, being 60, lacked the physical strength and ability required for his form

This is not true at all. In Episode 1 Journal: Darth Maul, Maul even noted the force on impact from Qui-Gon's blows. In Cloak of Deception, Qui-Gon repeatedly ran in a blur and formed a shield-like afterglow of his blade while parrying numerous blaster bolts. For that matter, after meditating when the shields divided him and Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon had refreshed much of his strength. He was still physically powerful. Several characters older than Qui-Gon have retained their physical acumen well into their elder years; why you presume Qui-Gon to be different, when he is only 60, is beyond me.
 

plus the cramped area stuffed up his form further. It hampered his techniques.

Provide a source for this, because every source that described what happened in this duel never mentioned that as a factor. The Phantom Menace, The Wrath of Darth Maul, Episode 1 Journal: Darth Maul, etc. None of them addressed that as an emphatic point in the duel. 
 

Grievous knows more than Maul. He knows the lightsaber forms (most of them) better than Maul does.

Based on what? The fact that he employs more styles than Maul does? Yoda fights almost exclusively with Ataru; that in no way implies that Grievous is more knowledgeable or adept with any particular form. Quite honestly, Grievous has absolutely no combat feats that Maul either hasn't already matched or couldn't accomplish anyway. 
 
This is a stalemate, as far as I'm concerned. It could go either way. 
 

so Maul does not have the element of surprise. Read Darth Bane: POD, and you will realize that without its surprise, the double-bladed saber is actually more limited than the traditional one.

Maul never needed surprise to defeat his opponents in direct confrontations. He won by skill. If you read any novels about Darth Maul, you will realize that Maul's saber affords him advantages not present in traditional lightsabers.
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#50 Posted by ShootingNova (23761 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

@ShootingNova said:

Qui-Gon, being 60, lacked the physical strength and ability required for his form

This is not true at all. In Episode 1 Journal: Darth Maul, Maul even noted the force on impact from Qui-Gon's blows. In Cloak of Deception, Qui-Gon repeatedly ran in a blur and formed a shield-like afterglow of his blade while parrying numerous blaster bolts. For that matter, after meditating when the shields divided him and Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon had refreshed much of his strength. He was still physically powerful. Several characters older than Qui-Gon have retained their physical acumen well into their elder years; why you presume Qui-Gon to be different, when he is only 60, is beyond me.

plus the cramped area stuffed up his form further. It hampered his techniques.

Provide a source for this, because every source that described what happened in this duel never mentioned that as a factor. The Phantom Menace, The Wrath of Darth Maul, Episode 1 Journal: Darth Maul, etc. None of them addressed that as an emphatic point in the duel.

Grievous knows more than Maul. He knows the lightsaber forms (most of them) better than Maul does.

Based on what? The fact that he employs more styles than Maul does? Yoda fights almost exclusively with Ataru; that in no way implies that Grievous is more knowledgeable or adept with any particular form. Quite honestly, Grievous has absolutely no combat feats that Maul either hasn't already matched or couldn't accomplish anyway.

This is a stalemate, as far as I'm concerned. It could go either way.

so Maul does not have the element of surprise. Read Darth Bane: POD, and you will realize that without its surprise, the double-bladed saber is actually more limited than the traditional one.

Maul never needed surprise to defeat his opponents in direct confrontations. He won by skill. If you read any novels about Darth Maul, you will realize that Maul's saber affords him advantages not present in traditional lightsabers.

Yes, but he did not have the strength he had in his prime. If he did, it would have been a lot more difficult.

Because the cramped area hampered his technique? Ataru required more space than that, it was certainly stated in flashback memories or somewhere, maybe in Jedi Apprentice or something, or one of my cousin's junior novelizations or something else.

Are you saying that Grievous and Maul would stalemate?

And Grievous was trained to use all the seven forms, their Niman/Jar'Kai variants and the Unorthodox, Maul was trained to use Forms VI and VII, and Niman/Jar'Kai variants of them.

The main question was what I said above: Are you saying Grievous and Maul would stalemate?