Darth Maul & Obi-Wan vs Anakin Skywalker & Mace Windu

All combatants are TCW.

To the death. No BFR.

Battle takes place on the Geonosian arena.

Round 1. Lightsaber battle only. No force

Round 2. All out.

Bonus Round: Anakin and Obi-Wan switch places. Still TCW

Team 1. Darth Maul just seemed superior to TCW Anakin, who lacked the strength or speed feats of his regular EU incarnation, and the TK feats.

Call out time @i_like_swords@shootingnova@jedixman@dccomicsrule2011@shroudofsorrow@beezlebub

Definitely Maul and Obi Wan

I posted. Team 1 should win round 1, although team 2 should win in round 2, especially if it's just EU Windu.

If Windu comes in instead of Ventress for the bonus round.. wooo toughy. Although honestly I see Maul as a near enough equal to Mace by TCW. It's a matter of who's more useful - TCW Anakin or TCW Obi-Wan.

It's TCW Mace would should still give them the win. Unless Obi can tire him out.

I think Obi-Wan had more TK showings than Anakin and I've always seen him as a much more refined duelist but I just love Obi. lol I believe Obi-Wan brings more to the table than Anakin. As for Maul it's a toss up for me.

Team 1 round 1. Team 2 round 2. Obi Wan and Ventress are around equal and Maul supersedes Anakin in pure Lightsaber combat. Will you elaborate as to whether Mace is EU or Clone Wars version in round 2? Not that it matters with Mace Team 2 takes it. Also ILS don't start saying Maul is on WIndu's level. :P

@darthaznable: Technically speaking, Team 2 should win because Windu is an even split with TCW Maul, not necessarily superior. But then, Anakin > Obi-Wan, so team 2, I guess.

Windu is only around Maul's level because his only real advantage is lightsaber proficiency. Maul has greater telekinetic power.

Rephrasing that don't star saying EU Maul is equal to EU Mace. :P

Not if he has the high ground ;) But really? I always saw Obi and Anakin as more equals.

@beezlebub I added the version of Mace to the OP. Everyone is TCW

No it's been stated that Anakin is Tier 9 and Obi Wan is T8. ;)

But seriously the only reason Obi Wan held out long enough for Vader to go emo as because he is a master of an extremely defensive form and I strongly suspect he had an amp during that fight. Also based on saber feats alone in TCW series Anakin trumps Obi Wan.

Dat metachlorian count though.

Anakin had an amp too. Soresu is imo one of the best forms. He's also a clearer thinker than Anakin as well.

No form is better then another. He is but force rage can amp your abilities.

maul and obi wan in round 1

mace and anakin in bonus round

You mean Maul for Round 1?

Yes he did. It's an easy mistake.

@beezlebub: Obi-Wan never had an amp. In fact, he was hindered as well, to a lesser degree, until the end of the fight.

Darth Maul and Obi-Wan.

Bonus round: Mace Windu and Anakin Skywalker.

Windu wins with solo.

And ;

Mace Solos? Both Obi and Maul? Nahhhh.

@darthaznable: Ventress is far too weak a link for Maul and Obi-Wan not to win in a lightsaber only duel. Likewise in a force duel.

Really? Because some people are claming she is equal or on par with Obi-Wan. I might change it to Mace

Team 2

I don't see Ventress as on par with Obi Wan given the fights Savage Opress has given her.

yes i do i fixed it thanks for the shout out on the error

mace and anakin

Good one. I would like to say team 1.

But no, team 2 wins after hard fight.

@penderor: Finnally! You've seen the light.

@i_like_swords: Correct.

@i_like_swords: She's not necessarily a weak link having held her ground against both opponents before if only for a short time but I agree she's not on the same level as the others in this duel. :P

@darthaznable: MACE IS STRONGEST THERE IS HE CRUSH PUNY ZABRAK AND HUMAN!!! RAHHHH!!! That's how I think Mace fans think like. :)

@raycat: Mace solos? Nope. Lol.

The scenario works out in my head kind of like this. Maul out duels Anakin while Obi-Wan guards against Mace, either tiring him out or just countering all his blows. Maul eventually gets the best of Anakin and they team up on an already fatigued Mace.

Unfortunately Mace always gets lowballing on this site. Even though he considered as only second to Yoda in the Jedi Order. And the only Jedi to fully master Vaapad.

Unarmed Force Combat Master ;

Defeating Jango Fett with ease (best bounty hunter in the galaxy)

(At the beginning of the video, Jango defeating a jedi who was council member with his sharp shooter ability but that doesn't work on Windu)

Stomping Grievous

Lecturing Quinlan Vos (Vos sweats like hell against Windu)

He stomps Vos while he is not holding back

Same for Sora Bulq, stomps him while not holding back...

Ventress : Powerful...

Windu : Do not assume, however that we are equals. We are not. Neither your weapon nor your skills are enough.I would prefer you alive to answer my question, butI will not kill you if you insist. Please believe that.

Ventress : Oh I have no doubt. Which leaves me one option... (Escapes)

In the show of force comic, shows his superiority on jedi fellas Kit, Tiin and Kolar. While team struggling with the enemy, Windu was too nonchalant.

Windu ordering his team...

And another maneuver of Vaapad ;

This unpertubed behaviours of Windu shows his power level, he was holding back in many times. Even while his friends dying by Sidious hands, he was not calling out for them, like Tholme calling out for his friend ;

Tholme : Sora !

And here, he was nonchalant and focused as well...

Windu : You are well-versed in the ways of the jedi, but you are not a jedi !

But who cares ? Sidious can't lose. He just let Windu win right ? ...

Not addressing the Sidious nonsense, because you still never offered any through refutation. The face was Sidious's real face, the Lightning just burned the false one away. Yes, the novel clearly supports Sidious throwing the fight, but even if he didn't, Mace was monumentally amped throughout the fight, which is clearly indicated in the novel. Even then, he only stalemated Sidious, as revealed in the novel when they reached an impasse. But then, Anakin came (as Sidious outright sensed and foresaw, just like he sensed the masters's approach, and he channeled Anakin's fear. Mace used that fear (thanks to Vaapad's mechanics) and then he "won" the duel, except Palpatine misdirected that usage of Shatterpoint anyways, and even Windu came to that conclusion.

Again, he was amped. That is not a showing indicative of his regular power.

And Mace never stomped Sora Bulq. Bulq dueled evenly with Windu.

All Windu did was land a Force Push and run away. Sora landed a Force Push on Windu, too, but it had no effect. Since the art shifted after Windu pushed Bulq, we never saw how he could have (or if he didn't) recover. Now, the Push seemed to have greater effect on Bulq than it did on Windu, but that's just speculation.

And as usual, you're posting things out-of-context.

Mace is not being lowballed at all. He is one of the most skilled fighters in the history of the Republic, was the second most skilled duelist in the Order by AotC and was only behind Yoda, and fought evenly with Dooku several times, outfought Ventress, held his own against Yoda, etc.

But he is hardly soloing this fight. He has only fought evenly with Dooku (and has lost to Dooku before), only dueled evenly with Grievous in Labyrinth of Evil until he used the Force to BFR him away, lost to Kar Vastor in Shatterpoint, only stalemated Sora Bulq as a duelist, and so on. His only legitimate, conclusive victory by virtue of lightsaber combat, was against Ventress.

I agree he was amped. But still Windu was at the same league with Yoda.

And he defeated Sidious in lightsaber duel. Not force. For example, if they fight on senate hall which Sidious can throw huge chairs (like he did to Yoda) Mace would lose.

And yes, Windu was holding back against Sora,

Sora landed a Force Push on Windu, too, but it had no effect.

Even a force attack is not affecting Windu, he could stomp Sora whenever he likes, just like against Vos (same Vos defeated Sora later)

And Ventress admitting that she was not same league with Windu as well... Same Ventress made trouble against Anakin and Obi-Wan...

......... How does that make sense? He stalemated Sidious when he was amped. The victory was played out by Sidious, and that's clear in the novel. In fact, I could give you a quote right now. He would not have won if he wasn't amped. Sidious faked the winning element, and in the novel, even Windu admitted that. He realized that Palpatine wasn't afraid at all.

And the novel also suggests that Windu could have been killed by Lightning at any point. Windu was about to die from the Lightning because the blade was bending back toward him. Palpatine stopped short of killing him to manipulate Anakin. I think everybody should realize this was faked. He went from "I'm too weak" to "UNLIMITED POWER!" in about five seconds.

It depends on what you mean by this. He would have been able to hold his own like Tyranus did against Yoda, but he would lose. That's already established in sourcebooks.

1. No, he wasn't. You just made that up. There is no source that states this, anywhere.

2. Vos lost to Sora. He won by cheap-shotting him. It was more or less similar to how Kenobi defeated Maul on Naboo.

Yes, she lost. She is the only person Mace has defeated legitimately. But then, there is a fact file that suggests Windu required everything he had to outfight Ventress. I doubt that was the case, but I'm just saying....

@shootingnova: You didn't answered for Jango Fett and Grievous.

Still my point is clear. Windu was the best lightsaber duelist in his time (due to his Vaapad mastery) but he lacks force power and wisdom against the likes of Yoda or Sidious.

@penderor: Hello. Please remember that images posted in the forums are subject to the same rules as far as swearing and expletives. It is okay to post/create a censored version. Thank you.

Team 1. I suppose. If it's all TCW

1. Why would I have to? He defeated Jango Fett because of Shatterpoint (in the novel Shatterpoint, this is clearly revealed) and he used Crush on a non-Force sensitive. That's great. Shatterpoint has only worked on fodder/non-Force sensitives, and Crush is not working on anybody here, who has sufficient Force-aided defenses to cancel that out. Maul is just plainly more powerful than Windu in terms of telekinesis. Could he ragdoll him? I doubt it. But his telekinetic abilities are preponderant, and that would make them something of an even split, considering that he is close enough to Windu as a swordsman anyways.

2. No, he isn't. Sourcebooks outright stated Yoda is the most skilled duelist as well, and he has outfought Windu in the past. Windu would be able to hold his own, but that's it.

Just because he was the only user of Vaapad who didn't fall to the dark side doesn't make him the most skilled lightsaber practitioner. There were only three Vaapad users anyways, and Vaapad may be incredibly deadly, but it isn't infallible. Sidious used Vaapad against Windu during their fight.

That gives him an advantage against Yoda. Since Yoda was not using Vaapad.

Also his force combat abilities unique as well, he destroyed many droids without his lightsaber.

And here, he shows his speed and agility while performing his TK ;

Round 1 - Team 2

Round 2 - Team 2

Bonus - Windu and Obi-Wan should win 7/10

How does this give him an advantage, at all? He lost to Yoda and lost to Dooku before, and neither of them used Vaapad.

Master Windu was also known within the Order for his unusual fighting style, one that he developed after studying the dueling styles of various lightsaber masters. His attacks consisted of relentless, unpredictable blows, like shots from an autoblaster. Master Windu himself remained perfectly balanced and centered. In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents ever overcame him in battle. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was former Master Dooku, whose own fighting style was archaic, yet stunningly effective.

Source: Power of the Jedi Sourcebook

Vaapad is not some infallible form. It's just a lightsaber form, just like Ataru or Makashi, the latter two of which are both suited to single combat as well. And this is lightsaber combat only. Dooku and Yoda are plainly superior to him in the Force.

TKing an entire army at once is an inconsistent showing. He needed other Jedi Masters to help him TK an army in another instance, and in the same show, he needed Yoda's help to TK droids, and the number of droids they TKed together was less than the amount Mace TKed on his own on Dantooine. There was even a time when he couldn't lift miniature transports.

Mace Windu's TK is good, but it has never been portrayed at that level at any other point. That showing was just exaggerated.

And your video doesn't really showcase anything other people on this team can't achieve. Obi-Wan alone, who should be last place here, was able to deflect blaster fire from entire armies.

@shootingnova: It is saying ; ''In the history'' we don't know about the time when Windu and Dooku fought.

When Windu died in RotS, he was 53 years old. Dooku left the order before TPM, (32 BBY) so I am guessing that Dooku and Windu fought while Windu was 25 or 30. I am sure Windu get stronger after that.

No, we can probably tell. Windu was a Council member for ten years by the time of TPM, and Depa Billaba was also on the Council, so she must have been a Vaapad adept already (not to mention around/before this time, she did express skill in Vaapad, which Mace Windu recorded in his private journals). So he must have already developed Vaapad with Sora Bulq. Dooku didn't leave the Order until TPM, which meant Mace had already been a Council Member for ten years already, so it's more than plausible that they would have sparred within these ten years.

We know that Dooku had already witnessed Vaapad before, as he noted its intricacies in his fight with Sora Bulq:

And the only way Dooku would have already known Vaapad beforehand is if he had sparred with Windu after Windu had become a Vaapad adept.

This, unfortunately, remains unproven. It is not stated anywhere.

And you would think that at the age of seventy, Dooku wouldn't improve anymore, but sources told us his ability increased. I'm assuming that's in reference to the Force and not saber combat, though.

Team 2.

@erkan12:

You are absolutley right,

Mace is the best fighter alongside Yoda and Sidious.

Team 2 takes this with ease.

Anakin and Obi are quite equal and Mace could easily deafeat Maul without a lightsaber.

As we could see on Dantooine :D

@You are such a Mace hater!!!!, ShootingNova

Stop saying such stupid nonsense with Maul is equal to Windu!

Mace could defeat Maul 100000 times!!!!

And GL stated himself that Mace won the LIGHTSABERDUEL against sidious.

Yes all in all Sidious is more powerful than Windu, but Mace could deafeat Dooku at any time!

Team 2 WINS easily....

Obi wan: one of the best fighters in the Jedi order's history

and

Darth Maul: A Sith asassin, (NO sith-lord, because he is too weak!) who lost against padawan Obi and lost even WITH the help of Savage against Kenobi!

You are overrating him, girl!

He is only a little bit stronger than ventress!

Mace Windu: One of the best Fighters in Star Wars history, second only to Yoda, fought evenly with Sidious, destroyed millions of droids on dantooine with BAR HANDS! Mace made Dooku running like a bitch on Boz Pity, he defeated Ventress, Vos, Bulq, Jango, Grievous EASILY! How many proofs do you want???!!! And if Mace goes to the dark side, he could murderstomp EVERYBODY

Anakin: The chosen one, the most powerful, equal to Yoda, Sidious and Mace and ten times as strong as Maul!

Believe me child, Team 2 wins easily, perhaps Mace solos. But no, Mace couldn't solo because Obi wan is almost as strong as Windu and with the help of Maul.... I don't want to overrate them like YOU, Supernova!!!

Watch all Star wars movies, cartoons (clone wars) and than come back to comicvine with your lack of knowledge!!!!