Darth Maul and Darth Talon VS Shaak-Ti and Ahsoka Tano

Red and Black vs Orange, Blue and White

This battle was made just for fun. It might be far closer than I'd thought or even far more one sided than I'd thought. I didn't really make because of their abilities, but I feel that it'd be fun to see the discussion.

Legends and Canon feats apply.

All are observed in their PRIME. I know Maul's prime is somewhat blurry (we're not sure if Rebels Maul is stronger/weaker/equal to TCW) so use what you believe to be their primes.

In-Character

They get whatever equipment is standard for them in the iteration used.

2v2 Battle begins with opponents opposite each other on the bridge in this image.

Who wins?

I would like you to go into detail, but it is, of course, not necessary.

----

Since I didn't bother thinking over whether this is balanced or not, I'll leave this round 2 rule here.

BONUS ROUND:

If Round 1 is a stomp for Jedi, make Ahsoka end of TCW instead, or replace Talon with TPM Maul, whichever you believe is more balanced.

If Round 1 is a stomp for Sith, remove Talon.

Team two, Talon is a weak link who really can't match either of her opponents.

Team 2.

Talon and Ti match each other well enough for my estimation (maybe trading edges in various categories), but Maul is confirmed as superior to Ahsoka by Rebels, and is clearly beyond Shaak in a big way, which I'd say swings it in his and Talon's favour. Decent fight though.

I'm going to say that Team 1 takes it. Maul could probably contend with Team 2 on his own, and adding in another teammate, even an inferior teammate, tips the scales more in his favor. Team 2 is no slouch, but I honestly think Maul could win 10/10 against either member of team 2.

Talon stalemates, or at least contends with one opponent, long enough for Maul to defeat his opponent, then it's two on 1, Sith win.

I don't know enough about prime Ahsoka, nor do I really care to lol

Jedi win with difficulty.

These responses seem very mixed.

I mean... I didn't put so much thought into this post, (Just Togruta vs Black and red characters, lel) but... considering the dispirate answers, maybe this battle does have discussion value after all...

Talon and Ti are close and Maul is stronger than Ahsoka.

Team one

@emperor339: I suspect the only real discussion available is between people who know how good Talon is, and people who don't. Other than her placement everyone knows Maul is a little better than Ahsoka, and both are much better than Shaak.

@darkdefender:

Maul is the most powerful of the group (Ahsoka, Kanan, Ezra, himself), he needs less help.

@darkdefender:

Ah you're a little late on that one friend. Already been disproved in the other forums.

Link?

It only makes sense that Maul would be the logical choice given he's around Ahsoka's level and has intimate knowledge on the layout of the Temple. :)

Wat. Why does his knowledge of the temple make him more appropriate to go with Ezra, the "weakest of the Jedi", which starwars.com made painfully clear is the focus of the sentence - how strong the group members are, not their knowledge of the temple.

@darkdefender: Which is all speculation rooted in nothing. It's conjecture.

They had just been attacked by Inquisitors. They decide they have to split up. The main factors determining how to split the groups are two things; how they can best combat the Inqs, and trust. Clearly they don't trust Maul, but still, Kanan's convinced that the "logical" decision is to give Ezra to Maul.

Starwars.com goes out of it's way to point out that Ezra is the weakest of the four. This without question tells us that the issue at hand is nothing to do with knowledge of the environment and everything to do with the strength of the individuals. Thus, if the logical decision is to place the weakest Jedi with Maul, it implies Maul is the strongest of the four and can carry him better than Kanan or Ahsoka.

If the text had even slightly indicated that it was Maul's knowledge of the temple that steered their decision, your point would have credit. It doesn't, so your point is moot.

Also, and I may need to check the episode for this, I'm pretty sure they knew where they were going at this point. I don't remember navigation ever being a pressing issue for them.

team 2 by a comfortable margin, unless talon is above anakin's level, one fought evenly with vader(alas losing), the other almost outdueled galen malek, took on 12 magna guards, and could change the orientation of a planet simply through her presence. Team 1 is outclassed here.

@alextheboss

@darkdefender: Um. I'm not sure what you mean to be quite frank. Maul has knowledge of the temple's layout. That's a fact. It's a beneficial tool in his arsenal and makes him a more useful partner to go exploring into a Sith temple with.

It's a fact that none of the characters or the official website wanted to make any mention of, or even hint at, in their decision making process. There's plenty of underlying facts, the one that is given important is the strength of the individuals.

Seriously. Occam's razor. The weakest went with the strongest in the interest of balance. Not difficult.

Well to be fair I think surviving the Inq's rather then combating them is the main factor

They go hand-in-hand, lmao.

Right, because he is. Well it tells us that it's logical that the weakest Jedi should be paired with the partner that will give him the best chance of survival. I happen to believe this is because of a mix of Maul's effectiveness as a combatant and his knowledge of the temple's layout.

That's nice. It mentions nothing explicit about survival. They weren't running for their lives. What you happen to believe doesn't matter unless the source material corroborates it.

It doesn't need to have indicated it for it to be a valid point my friend. I think you're forgetting what logical inference is. :P

Wat. What you're doing isn't logical inference. Logical inference is taking a piece of information, looking at what it alludes to or what it may allude to, and reaching a conclusion.

What you're saying is "Maul probably went with Ezra because he knows the layout of the temple, even though nothing has even hinted at this".

Logical inference is saying "well, if the weakest member being paired with Maul is the logical decision, then that must mean Maul is the strongest."

I'm not sure either though that doesn't change the fact that Maul still knows the temple better then the Jedi and Ezra will likely have better odds of making it out alive with him because of this

If it was a truly pressing issue I'm sure one of the characters or the website might have said, "fine, Ezra go with him, he knows the temple best", or "Ezra, come with me, I know the temple best", or "with Maul knowing the temple best, it was only logical for Ezra to go with him".

Instead it says "Ezra is the weakest, it makes sense for him to go to Maul".

NO. Maul himself admitted he could not beat vader, ashoka nearly matched vader, shaak ti fought galen malek evenly, took 12 magna guards, and made a planet become a lightside nexus simply by being there, not even a contest

@darkdefender said:

@i_like_swords said:

@darkdefender:

Maul is the most powerful of the group (Ahsoka, Kanan, Ezra, himself), he needs less help.

Ah you're a little late on that one friend. Already been disproved in the other forums. It only makes sense that Maul would be the logical choice given he's around Ahsoka's level and has intimate knowledge on the layout of the Temple. :)

Maul simply wanted to be alone with ezra, ashoka's showing vs prime vader ans the fact she twice overpowered maul in bladelocks in their brief duel show she is above maul.

based on what?, ashoka tanked the temple's explosion, overpowered maul twice on bladelocks, dealt with vader's strikes so she's better physically, dueling wise she matched vader(nearly matched) so she's better dueling wise and tk wise she force pushed vader, so she's more powerful as well, how does maul take this?

Team 1. Ti and Talon can go either way but Maul is comfortably above both combatants in every regard. Talon would also likely take a majority over Ahsoka due to being substantially more powerful.

talon is the weak link here, ashoka in her prime's only tk showing was pushing vader, no one in this battle can match that, team 2 quite easily

@kbroskywalker

based on what?, ashoka tanked the temple's explosion

When did that happen? What proof do you have of this?

Overpowered maul twice on bladelocks

I dont remember this ever happening. I remember Maul fighting her for a while and the result of the battle being inconclusive

dealt with vader's strikes so she's better physically

She dodged most of Vader's strikes or deflected them.

dueling wise she matched vader(nearly matched) so she's better dueling wise

She was being pushed back onto the defensive for the entire fight and Vader wasn't using his force or strength advantage. Lol at her "nearly matching him" , she was ovbiously struggling to keep up.

and tk wise she force pushed vader, so she's more powerful as well

She pushed him back five feet, so what? Kanan and Erza did the exact same thing but better, but they were getting absolutely destroyed by Vader

Force pushing a powerful character isn't a great or even good showing of power, it never has been. Weaker characters push more powerful characters all the time, Ventress has done the same thing to Anakin but that never stopped him from dominating her when he was so inclined.

Ahsoka is actually the weakest character here, no contest.

1. we saw ashoka alive at the end after the temple exploded.

2. Note the second one is with one hand.

3. We have different difinitions of nearly.

Did vader land any saber hits on asoka? No. Did vader disarm her? No. I never said she matched him, but as she did not get beat outright, it was close

4. She enganged in several bladelocks with vader.

5. Not comparable, ezra and kanan only did it when he was distracted by an explosion, they would never do that to him when's he's focused.

it shows you aren't completely outclassed by the combatant you're force pushing, talon is hopelessly outclassed by vader

I guess Dooku is stronger than Anakin, Barriss Offee is stronger than Anakin, and TCW Ahsoka is stronger than Grievous, yeno, since they all won bladelocks against those characters, and bladelocks are totally a viable way to measure strength in Star Wars, and weaker characters don't push back stronger characters in bladelocks all the time.

RIP debating.

@kbroskywalker: No it doesn't..because if it did then Ventress wouldn't have been dominated by Anakin. Barriss wouldn't have been dominated by Anakin, Kenobi wouldn't have been dominated by Maul, Ventress wouldn't have been dominated by Dooku etc etc etc. Talon is closer to Vader's level of power than Ahsoka is, and her pushing him back a few feet doesn't change that fact.

this is funny. did vader ever show he outclassed ashoka force wise. no. And talon would die instantly if vader started to use the force

Okay, so your stance is that because Ahsoka Force pushed Vader, she's not hopelessly outclassed by him in terms of TK. Even though there are examples of people landing Force pushes on opponents who would later ragdoll them, leaving them hopeless and at their mercy.

Let me ask you this; why have you arrived at the conclusion Talon is hopelessly outclassed by Vader?

@kbroskywalker: So because he didn't that immediately means he can't? Nevermind the fact that Vader hardly ever abuses his TK in duels, their respective feats are nowhere near comparable to each other. The same logic you would use to justify Vader's superiority to Talon, dictates that Ahsoka fares even worse under this line of scrutiny.

Yep. Talk about tripping yourself up.

i can literally just say that because ashoka has one tk showing its not fair to say she can't ragdoll vader

as for you juice:

talon>ashoka?

@alextheboss@shootingnova@lukeskywalker16@sirfizzwhizz

@kbroskywalker: I don't know anything about Talon so I can't make a decision.

Daaaaammmnnnnn..... Team 1. Maul edges it. Shaak Ti loses to Talon.

@kbroskywalker:

i can literally just say that because ashoka has one tk showing its not fair to say she can't ragdoll vader

What kind of logic is this? No you can't..that's not an argument. Are you really trying to argue that because Ahsoka lacks tk showings that are comparable to Vader, that she's comparable to Vader? You've said some ridiculous things but this isn't even a coherent thought.

You never read Legacy?

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/i_like_swords/blog/darth-talon-respect-thread/105115/

WELL THEN YOU ARE LOST

Seriously though does prime ahsoka have any showings that put her below maul or talon, and how does talon take someone who almost outdueled marek and was so powerful her presence turned a planet into a lightside nexus?

No thats what you're trying to argue, just because a character doesn't have enough showings to guage with certainty does not mean she is lower than one who you can. I never said that vader is weaker, but saying he outclasses her is stupid as he has NO showing of outclassing her tk wise, and we have no knowledge of how powerful tano is. Its like trying o argue because we don't know all that much out of the ones, that they are outclassed by ventress, or that darth zannah is outclassed by kenobi. Dhow me vader ragdolling prime ashoka or prime ashoka being ragdolled by someone below vader(aka maul or the inquisitors) and then you'll have an argument

@kbroskywalker: No, Shaak Ti is just the weak link.

i admit i don't know all that much about talon, but shaak ti has some great showings. She contended with a blood lusted anakin, dueled 12 magna guards, and evenly fought galen marek, can talon match that? I'd say ti is right below kenobi and on par with maul

@kbroskywalker: when has she ever contend with Anakin? The Video Game? She was easily killed when I played it lol.

She contend with Malak with the whole planet feeding her, as well the help of the giant monster thing, and the occasional Rancor.

The Magna Guards is her best feat IMO.

Feats for Talon are above. She is near equals with Cade Skywalker, the best Skywalker.

during order 66 she injured anakin

also her prensence making a planet a light side nexus is above anything talon has done? isn't it. Would talon be kkenobi or anakkin level?

and cade is not the best skywalker gm luke is

Anyone remember when Vader blasted Ahsoka with TK to the point where she was K.O'd for about a minute

Be nice if people did

@kbroskywalker:

No thats what you're trying to argue, just because a character doesn't have enough showings to guage with certainty does not mean she is lower than one who you can

Unless there's other evidence to suggest otherwise, then yes it most certainly does. No character gets special treatment just because we haven't seen them fail.

I never said that vader is weaker

Not in the mood for red herrings today.

but saying he outclasses her is stupid as he has NO showing of outclassing her tk wise

Unleashing a wave of tk sufficient to collapse a cathedral, being canonically more powerful than the likes of Kar Vastor and Jerec and causing lyleks to explode with a wave of his hand are all leaps and bounds ahead of anything Ahsoka has done. This isn't debatable, you don't have an argument here or in any other regard.

and we have no knowledge of how powerful tano is.

We've seen enough of her to know that she's not comparable to Vader in any regard. You can't make a conjecture without any evidence, and there is not a single strain of evidence to point towards anything even remotely resembling parity to Vader in power. Ahsoka doesn't have anything that puts her on par with Talon even. I'm not going to sit here and make your arguments for you, as you obviously can't argue for her power as you're resorting to ad ignorantium.

Its like trying o argue because we don't know all that much out of the ones, that they are outclassed by ventress, or that darth zannah is outclassed by kenobi.

Wow..okay. The Ones all have statements and showings that pin them as leaps and bounds ahead of any mortal force sensitive. Zannah likewise has on panel feats like unleashing a tk wave that devastated a landscape as a toddler and statements like becoming more powerful than Bane. Your ignorance manages to pervade through every argument you attempt, it's almost hilarious at this point. Almost.

Dhow me vader ragdolling prime ashoka or prime ashoka being ragdolled by someone below vader(aka maul or the inquisitors) and then you'll have an argument

Okay let's try this then..show me a feat of Ahsoka's that's comparable to an average feat of Vader's. Hell show me a feat of Ahsoka's that's comparable to an average feat of Maul's. Her lack of tk showings or even power implications isn't evidence of her power, or anything for that matter. But you want to use her absence of feats to defend her? Fine. I'll use it to argue her getting ragdolled by Talon. See how far we each go with that.